Teacher jailed for refusing to use gender-neutral pronouns is arrested after returning to school

[The Real timschochet 7,559]

2 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

We're calling it out because it isn't normal.  

They’re being a self-hater again. Have courage in who you truly are! 

[squistion 2,660]

Just now, RogerDodger said:

Your flawed, simple-minded, thinking here is that it has to common to matter.  As soon as it is "common" you'll start to call it normal.  We're calling it out because it isn't normal.  

If a guy with the given named Richard, wants to be called Rick or Rich, that is not an unreasonable request and complying with it is considered common courtesy. People do have the right to be addressed by the name they prefer (within reason, of course). 

[RogerDodger 798]

1 minute ago, squistion said:

If a guy with the given named Richard, wants to be called Rick or Rich, that is not an unreasonable request and complying with it is considered common courtesy. People do have the right to be addressed by the name they prefer (within reason, of course). 

I shall refer to you as The Dummy Squiz. TDS for short.

 

[Louie Kelcher 97]

25 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

How about the common courtesy of not asking people to articulate things they know aren’t true?  That’s actually the first breakdown in the lack of respect chain of events.

How about the common courtesy of referring to someone with the name they ask you to?

[MDC 8,100]

1 hour ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Not, that's false.  That's my whole point.  I made this point on page 1 with a link but no one read it.

Here are the facts of what happened...

Mr Burke, one of 10 siblings in a well-known family of evangelical Christians from Castlebar, Co Mayo, had vehemently opposed a request made last May by school principal Niamh McShane that staff call a transgender child by a new name and use the pronoun “they” instead of “he”. He explained in court that this offended his religious beliefs and was something that he was unwilling to do.

So you got a kid, that says they want to be called by a different name, and use the pronoun "they".  Alright, we can debate whether it's focked up or not, we can roll our eyes and think this kid is weird, but whatever, it's a kid.  The normal reaction is to show respect and kindness, not hatred.

So that's what the school does, they accept the kid's request, and the principal tells the staff, call the kid "X", and refer to them a "they".  Normal teacher says alright, whatever, kid's going through something, I'll respect the kid, sure.  This douche bag Burke says no, fock that, the kid changing his name offends me and my religion, I will not call the kid by his new name.

So now we got insubordination.  Not what happened next but the school was probably like, whatever dude, but then sh1t got real....

His stance led to a number of flashpoints, including the interruption of a chapel service and what the school claims was “heated” questioning of Ms McShane after a school dinner.

We move to him being a menace, and things got so bad with his behavior that he was suspended.

He was suspended on full pay on August 24 by the board of management, which scheduled a disciplinary meeting for September 14.

So now he's suspended and they're trying to figure out what to do, but douche bag Burke keeps acting like a douche, and keeps coming around the school.  No respect for students, no respect for the school, this selfish POS is now a problem.

However, Mr Burke continued to show up for work, even after the board felt compelled to secure a temporary injunction from Ms Justice Siobhán Stack in the High Court last Wednesday restraining him from doing so.  Mr Burke told the court yesterday that if it let him go free, he would continue to show up at his workplace.

What's the only option left, get rid of the guy.

Id' have a bit of sympathy for the guy if he simply stated his intent that he would never use the word "they" and abided by his suspension and waited for the disciplinary hearing.  If he was fired after that, the I would tend to agree with you.

But this dude is a pure ass hole, so fock him.

 

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/teacher-enoch-burke-spurned-last-chance-of-avoiding-jail-as-he-refused-to-comply-in-trans-row/338519773.html?fbclid=IwAR2HgnoN9a65LoL3QszoaDT4QQLSMwTw4S0Tm714klpnzAXYnDAtpt2ETv0

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62818245

I agree with a lot of what you said here and also maintain that he was basically fired for his noncompliance with calling this student by the preferred pronoun. It just happened sooner rather than later because he made his intention to not comply abundantly clear. 

[Louie Kelcher 97]

5 minutes ago, MDC said:

I agree with a lot of what you said here and also maintain that he was basically fired for his noncompliance with calling this student by the preferred pronoun. It just happened sooner rather than later because he made his intention to not comply abundantly clear. 

And I'm fine with it, quite honestly.  If there was a teacher in my school that kept referring to my son as "she" or "her", I would want that teacher disciplined and/or fired.  Any parent would.  Keep your religion to yourself, treat people with respect.

[MDC 8,100]

6 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

And I'm fine with it, quite honestly.  If there was a teacher in my school that kept referring to my son as "she" or "her", I would want that teacher disciplined and/or fired.  Any parent would.  Keep your religion to yourself, treat people with respect.

I infrequently work with a non-binary person who’s in another office. I can’t remember this stuff because I’m old, so I always refer to this person by her/his actual name and don’t use pronouns at all. There’s no problem.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

12 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

And I'm fine with it, quite honestly.  If there was a teacher in my school that kept referring to my son as "she" or "her", I would want that teacher disciplined and/or fired.  Any parent would.  Keep your religion to yourself, treat people with respect.

Yeah, keep your religion out of that religious school. You’re precious. 

[Louie Kelcher 97]

5 minutes ago, MDC said:

I infrequently work with a non-binary person who’s in another office. I can’t remember this stuff because I’m old, so I always refer to this person by her/his actual name and don’t use pronouns at all. There’s no problem.

Exactly.  As long as we can treat people with respect, there are no problems.  Once you get ass holes involved, then there are problems.  Usually the case with everything in life.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yeah, keep your religion out of that religious school. You’re precious. 

This dudes religion doesn't jive with the school's religion, which is obvious.  Keep your dumb comments to yourself.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

There was a girl that went to my daughter's Kindergarten, Priscilla.  They were friends for many years, we were friends with the parents.  When she got to HS, she wanted to be called "Alex", and probably some other pronouns, I don't know, so everyone just called her Alex, and there were no problems.  This is what happens when there are no ass holes.

[MDC 8,100]

4 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Exactly.  As long as we can treat people with respect, there are no problems.  Once you get ass holes involved, then there are problems.  Usually the case with everything in life.

Fwiw I roll my eyes at this stuff too, but it’s not the hill I’m going to die on or lose a job over.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

3 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

This dudes religion doesn't jive with the school's religion, which is obvious.  Keep your dumb comments to yourself.

You said he should keep his religion out of it. It’s a religious school. You’re a dope for saying that. 

[Louie Kelcher 97]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You said he should keep his religion out of it. It’s a religious school. You’re a dope for saying that. 

I said he should keep his religion to himself, Blart.  It doesn't matter that it's a religious school, his religion is irrelevant, because it's not what the school teaches or wants.  What if a muslim came into a Catholic school and started making decisions based on Mohammed?  You'd be good with that?  Just shut up.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

5 minutes ago, MDC said:

Fwiw I roll my eyes at this stuff too, but it’s not the hill I’m going to die on or lose a job over.

I do too, but it's called being tolerant.  We can do that, others can't.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

9 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

I said he should keep his religion to himself, Blart.  It doesn't matter that it's a religious school, his religion is irrelevant, because it's not what the school teaches or wants.  What if a muslim came into a Catholic school and started making decisions based on Mohammed?  You'd be good with that?  Just shut up.

Wow that’s all kind of stupid. You remain defeated.  Carry on 

[Fireballer 2,693]

56 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

I do too, but it's called being tolerant.  We can do that, others can't.

Tolerance of ideas you don’t agree with is a noble attribute.  Tolerance of things that just aren’t true is stupid.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

Tolerance of ideas you don’t agree with is a noble attribute.  Tolerance of things that just aren’t true is stupid.

Sounds like something an ass hole would say.

[Fireballer 2,693]

10 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Sounds like something an ass hole would say.

Sorry if the truth hurts your fantasy feelings

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

2 hours ago, Louie Kelcher said:

And I'm fine with it, quite honestly.  If there was a teacher in my school that kept referring to my son as "she" or "her", I would want that teacher disciplined and/or fired.  Any parent would.  Keep your religion to yourself, treat people with respect.

In my day teachers and coaches would routinely refer to groups of males as Ladies or girls and to individuals they had nknown for years as Nancy or Mary.  We all survived.  That left calloses and muscles, not scars.  Nowadays we imagine any variance to be debilitating for life.  Time to grow some hard bark ladies.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

2 hours ago, Louie Kelcher said:

I do too, but it's called being tolerant.  We can do that, others can't.

Tolerance is a two way street. You might say that notion is fundamental. 

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

Tolerance is not requiring students to stand for the pledge of allegiance and recite it. Intolerance is forcing someone to say something they don’t believe in. At best it’s rude to not use someone’s preferred pronouns. And no where  in the bill of rights is being rude prohibited. Can you people start acting like Americans? 

[avoiding injuries 1,655]

It’s weird how passionate people can be about unicorns and pronouns. 

[avoiding injuries 1,655]

 

[Louie Kelcher 97]

50 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

It’s weird how passionate people can be about unicorns and pronouns. 

I remember the same outrage when gays wanted to get married.

In 10 years, when we're all comfortable calling people the names they want to be called, we'll look back on this time and shake our heads.

[RLLD 4,282]

7 hours ago, Louie Kelcher said:

Wait, you don't think this guy was jailed for not using a pronoun, do you?

Nope. He was jailed for refusing to leave after asked. But not unlike our VP I believe in getting down to root causes, and ultimately the pronoun issue was the issue

[squistion 2,660]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Tolerance is not requiring students to stand for the pledge of allegiance and recite it. Intolerance is forcing someone to say something they don’t believe in. At best it’s rude to not use someone’s preferred pronouns. And no where in the bill of rights is being rude prohibited. Can you people start acting like Americans? 

True, but this took place in Ireland, which doesn't have the bill of rights, but I digress...

In both Ireland and the US, private employers are free to set workplace standards as to what their employees may or not may not say at work. If one refuses to follow these guidelines because they feel they are being forced to say something they don’t believe in, they have the freedom to do so, but they also may face suspension and/or job termination and have no recourse (as which happened here). 

 

[iam90sbaby 2,727]

50 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

 

Freak. People belong in a mental institution and they're teaching kids. 

[Voltaire 5,528]

7 minutes ago, squistion said:

True, but this took place in Ireland, which doesn't have the bill of rights, but I digress...

In both Ireland and the US, private employers are free to set workplace standards as to what their employees may or not may not say at work. If one refuses to follow these guidelines because they feel they are being forced to say something they don’t believe in, they have the freedom to do so, but they also may face suspension and/or job termination and have no recourse (as which happened here). 

 

Is there a legal case you know of that has decided this? I don't think so, I'd done a search earlier but didn't really find anything.

[Voltaire 5,528]

5 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Freak. People belong in a mental institution and they're teaching kids. 

Half the people in this thread would applaud the teacher. It's where we are. The country is really split on this issue.

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Tolerance is not requiring students to stand for the pledge of allegiance and recite it. Intolerance is forcing someone to say something they don’t believe in. At best it’s rude to not use someone’s preferred pronouns. And no where  in the bill of rights is being rude prohibited. Can you people start acting like Americans? 

As a second grader who had to start every school day with the pledge of allegiance I asked the teacher whether children should be forced to pledge their allegiance at such a young age particularly since 2/3rds of my classmates did not understand the terms "pledge", "alegiance" or "republic" not to mention "indivisible".  I was sent to the Principal's Office.  I often was.

[MDC 8,100]

2 hours ago, Fireballer said:

Tolerance of ideas you don’t agree with is a noble attribute.  Tolerance of things that just aren’t true is stupid.

I joke about it here but IRL I’m tolerant of peoples’ belief in the Sky Fairy all the time. Should I start telling them religion is voodoo? 

[Fireballer 2,693]

37 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

I remember the same outrage when gays wanted to get married.

In 10 years, when we're all comfortable calling people the names they want to be called, we'll look back on this time and shake our heads.

Not close to the same.  With gays(or fagg!t like you prefer to say) it requires no one to play along with a charade to the level of transsexualism.  Nice try though.

[iam90sbaby 2,727]

18 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Half the people in this thread would applaud the teacher. It's where we are. The country is really split on this issue.

Not in Florida! It's like watching the world burn from afar when you live here.

[avoiding injuries 1,655]

1 hour ago, Louie Kelcher said:

I remember the same outrage when gays wanted to get married.

In 10 years, when we're all comfortable calling people the names they want to be called, we'll look back on this time and shake our heads.

Refer back to the slippery slope diagram that I posted. 
People like me, who are totally fine with and accepting of gays, are putting our foot down on this mental illness being accepted into society as being normal. It’s not, never will be. You’re born a male or a female, regardless of any drug you take or surgical procedure you have. 

[RLLD 4,282]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

I joke about it here but IRL I’m tolerant of peoples’ belief in the Sky Fairy all the time. Should I start telling them religion is voodoo? 

I think you should.

Let’s see if they pretend you are “faith phobic”, or threatening their life, or otherwise evil….

Give it a try, enjoy how good people are and react. The difference will be startling…

BUT, don’t do it to a mentally ill person suffering from gender dysphoria might just go after you….so best to steer clear 

[MDC 8,100]

11 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think you should.

Let’s see if they pretend you are “faith phobic”, or threatening their life, or otherwise evil….

Give it a try, enjoy how good people are and react. The difference will be startling…

BUT, don’t do it to a mentally ill person suffering from gender dysphoria might just go after you….so best to steer clear 

I’ll keep treating non-binary and religious folks the same way: smile and nod.

[The Real timschochet 7,559]

1 hour ago, iam90sbaby said:

Not in Florida! It's like watching the world burn from afar when you live here.

40% of your state voted for Crist. That’s not a majority, obviously, but it’s also not a number you can simply discount. There are plenty of rational liberals left in Florida. 

[Louie Kelcher 97]

2 hours ago, Fireballer said:

Not close to the same.  With gays(or fagg!t like you prefer to say) it requires no one to play along with a charade to the level of transsexualism.  Nice try though.

Why do you need to "play along"?  The fock does that mean?  

[Louie Kelcher 97]

1 hour ago, avoiding injuries said:

Refer back to the slippery slope diagram that I posted. 
People like me, who are totally fine with and accepting of gays, are putting our foot down on this mental illness being accepted into society as being normal. It’s not, never will be. You’re born a male or a female, regardless of any drug you take or surgical procedure you have. 

Nice opinion