I don't know if you can't talk Sports here

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I'm just having a rational discussion / debate with you. 

After the shift is deployed, fielders still have to field. They still have to make the accurate throw. I will admit that assuming the shift works correctly and the batter at the plate can't hit away from it, the fielders jobs are now easier because they have less ground to cover. 

Removing the shift takes away any need for a professional hitter to hit the ball to all fields. Simple high school level baseball stuff. Some of these hitters rest on their laurels as power/pull hitters and they get paid big money to just focus on that. The shift makes them look bad. Boo-hoo. 

You say hitters did fine pre shift. Who is saying they didn't? That's kind of the whole argument. ... The shift has contributed to batting averages going down. Totally agree. Analytics showed that many hitters are incapable of going opposite field. Defenses adjusted and hitters didn't. Basically MLB is saying hitters don't need to adjust because we want more offense in our boring game 

So no one hit the other way pre-shift? Huh? 

[Hawkeye21 2,457]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Ok, time to put this to rest. In 2011 the shift was deployed about 2800 times. Last year it was used 70, 000 times. They use it on everyone.  So stop with the “learn to hit”. garbage. Get off your lawn 

I love what Anthony Rizzo would do.  He would lay down a bunt to the right side of the field for a single.  Smart player, Rizzo.

[crackattack 520]

2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I'm just having a rational discussion / debate with you. 

After the shift is deployed, fielders still have to field. They still have to make the accurate throw. I will admit that assuming the shift works correctly and the batter at the plate can't hit away from it, the fielders jobs are now easier because they have less ground to cover. 

Removing the shift takes away any need for a professional hitter to hit the ball to all fields. Simple high school level baseball stuff. Some of these hitters rest on their laurels as power/pull hitters and they get paid big money to just focus on that. The shift makes them look bad. Boo-hoo. 

You say hitters did fine pre shift. Who is saying they didn't? That's kind of the whole argument. ... The shift has contributed to batting averages going down. Totally agree. Analytics showed that many hitters are incapable of going opposite field. Defenses adjusted and hitters didn't. Basically MLB is saying hitters don't need to adjust because we want more offense in our boring game 

I agree and would add this. Once the shift is deployed, the pitcher has to pitch according to the shift. If he misses location, look out. 

[WhiteWonder 3,000]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

So no one hit the other way pre-shift? Huh? 

 Of course batters hit the other way pre shift. The ones who could, did.  Are you somehow suggesting that before the shift, guys who had a tendency to only hit to one side of the field magically were hitting it the other way?   Simple analytics would prove you wrong. There is an obvious reason why the shift was implemented and why usage of the shift has gone up over time (analytics were not as prevalent in 2011 as they are today)

[League Champion 1,926]

Talking Sports

 

 

[WhiteWonder 3,000]

1 minute ago, crackattack said:

I agree and would add this. Once the shift is deployed, the pitcher has to pitch according to the shift. If he misses location, look out. 

yup

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

9 minutes ago, posty said:

This is exactly correct...  No surprise that HT dislikes it...  The Yankees probably doesn't have one hitter that can go the opposite way that isn't swinging for the fences...

DJ LaMaheiu may hit the other way more than anyone in baseball, shift or not. I know how mad it makes you that I know more than you.  Sorry. Learn more. 

[Hawkeye21 2,457]

Why are so many batters pulling the ball more than ever before?  Is it a natural change or are they changing their swings in order to hit more HRs?

[WhiteWonder 3,000]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Get off your lawn 

 stop.  Get off your lawn or get off my lawn would apply more to people who wanted the shift gone.... going back to the old days and away from analytics. 

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

10 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I'm just having a rational discussion / debate with you. 

After the shift is deployed, fielders still have to field. They still have to make the accurate throw. I will admit that assuming the shift works correctly and the batter at the plate can't hit away from it, the fielders jobs are now easier because they have less ground to cover. 

Removing the shift takes away any need for a professional hitter to hit the ball to all fields. Simple high school level baseball stuff. Some of these hitters rest on their laurels as power/pull hitters and they get paid big money to just focus on that. The shift makes them look bad. Boo-hoo. 

You say hitters did fine pre shift. Who is saying they didn't? That's kind of the whole argument. ... The shift has contributed to batting averages going down. Totally agree. Analytics showed that many hitters are incapable of going opposite field. Defenses adjusted and hitters didn't. Basically MLB is saying hitters don't need to adjust because we want more offense in our boring game 

You don’t take into account how pitchers throw now. There are no more both sides of the plate, working in and out guys anymore. If you can’t throw 90+ you ain’t making it. There are no more Jaime Moyers, Frank Viola, Jimmy Key types anymore. 

[crackattack 520]

6 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why are so many batters pulling the ball more than ever before?  Is it a natural change or are they changing their swings in order to hit more HRs?

HR. That's why k's are way up and batting averages are down. Chick's dig the long ball.

[WhiteWonder 3,000]

10 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You don’t take into account how pitchers throw now. There are no more both sides of the plate, working in and out guys anymore. If you can’t throw 90+ you ain’t making it. There are no more Jaime Moyers, Frank Viola, Jimmy Key types anymore. 

I get that, and its not easy to go oppo off a 93 mph fastball that paints the inside corner... BUT the pitcher still has to locate that 93 mph fastball correctly. Theres a reason those low BA, all or nothing pull hitters don't draw many walks. They can't lay off the inside ball (meaning pitch that would be called a ball) as much as they should because thats the perfect pitch for them to hammer out of the park.   this again goes to hitting discipline. So not only are we not asking these high paid major leaguers to bother knowing how to hit opposite field or lay down a shift beating bunt, we also don't care if they have any plate discipline. 

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

I get that, and its not easy to go oppo off a 93 mph fastball that paints the inside corner... BUT the pitcher still has to locate that 93 mph fastball correctly. Theres a reason those low BA, all or nothing pull hitters don't draw many walks. They can't lay off the inside ball (meaning pitch that would be called a ball) as much as they should because thats the perfect pitch for them to hammer out of the park.   this again goes to hitting discipline. So not only are we not asking these high paid major leaguers to not bother knowing how to hit opposite field or lay down a shift beating bunt, we also don't care if they have any plate discipline. 

Point is, the best hitters aren’t taking an inside fastball the other way. That’s why the pitcher throws it there, to get them to hit into the defense. You’re asking a hitter to do something they can’t. If they could , they would. There would be a lot of money to be made if they did. 

[WhiteWonder 3,000]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Point is, the best hitters aren’t taking an inside fastball the other way. That’s why the pitcher throws it there, to get them to hit into the defense. You’re asking a hitter to do something they can’t. If they could , they would. There would be a lot of money to be made if they did. 

Correct, we are asking these hitters to do something they currently can't do. Not something that is not possible to do. Also, as I already mentioned, these guy can improve in a few areas in order to beat the shift. they can lay down a bunt, regardless of the pitcher locating his pitch perfectly. They can also take more inside pitches because lets be honest, they swing at a lot of inside balls. The pitcher is not firing 90+ mph pitches perfectly on the inside corner with every pitch. Patience can lead to walks or the pitcher making a mistake over the middle or middle out of the plate. 

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Correct, we are asking these hitters to do something they currently can't do. Not something that is not possible to do. Also, as I already mentioned, these guy can improve in a few areas in order to beat the shift. they can lay down a bunt, regardless of the pitcher locating his pitch perfectly. They can also take more inside pitches because lets be honest, they swing at a lot of inside balls. The pitcher is not firing 90+ mph pitches perfectly on the inside corner with every pitch. Patience can lead to walks or the pitcher making a mistake over the middle or middle out of the plate. 

Yeah, I’m not asking my players, especially the ones I’m paying millions and millions of dollars, to square around on an inside fastball. Call me nuts. 

[WhiteWonder 3,000]

getting rid of the shift so one trick pony hitters can have better batting averages feels a lot like the liberal thing to do.   Things are too hard? here's a handout. Can't pay your student loans? We got ya!

 

(im kidding around)

[kozmiq 70]

Why do you hate America ?

( I'm joking )

[crackattack 520]

Soft bigotry of low expectations. Why don't these multimillionaires pull themselves up by the bootstraps and improve themselves. Nope. They need mlb governmental help. 

 

I wanted to join in!

[BuckSwope 654]

6 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Learn to pitch faster. 

Not going to help that much.  Even if somebody could pitch 105mph, it would only speed up the play about .02sec.   

[TimHauck 3,423]

3 hours ago, crackattack said:

The average MLB game last year was 3hrs and 6 min. The horror!! Rushed at bats might save 30 min. I like speeding it up some, but I enjoy going to games for the atmosphere. Ballpark food, the sun, people watching, drinking, walking around. A 3 hr game isn't that long.

When you add in 30 mins-1 hour for travel time and traffic getting in/out of the stadium yes it is

[seafoam1 3,513]

Overall, the pitch clock is a step in the right direction if their goal is to speed up the game. I don't care about the shift.

All that said, at the same time I hear the same people who whine about baseball being slow that there's not enough action and scoring going on. More action and scoring would mean longer games. 

Make up your mind. Or just stop whining and enjoy baseball for what it always has been. Why even change it? 

[crackattack 520]

12 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

When you add in 30 mins-1 hour for travel time and traffic getting in/out of the stadium yes it is

Then you must not go to any pro games? Football and Baseball are over 3 hours long. NBA is 2 and a half or longer on average. I consider a pro game an all day event. I usually book a hotel and stay the night. 

For the record, the closest pro baseball team is 2.5 hours away in Cincinnati or 3.5 to Chicago. Colts/Pacers about an hour away. So we make it an all day event.

[TimHauck 3,423]

17 minutes ago, crackattack said:

Then you must not go to any pro games? Football and Baseball are over 3 hours long. NBA is 2 and a half or longer on average. I consider a pro game an all day event. I usually book a hotel and stay the night. 

For the record, the closest pro baseball team is 2.5 hours away in Cincinnati or 3.5 to Chicago. Colts/Pacers about an hour away. So we make it an all day event.

First world problems.  And I think the average is expected to be about 2.5 hours, so similar to the NBA if your number is accurate

[shorepatrol 1,871]

Get rid of the wood helmets and metal bats. Problem solved 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

the real problem is that kids today consume everything on their phones.  a 3 hour baseball game will drain their battery dead before its over.  whatever they do, they need to cut every game down to 1 hour and 15 minutes, maybe 1 hour 30 minutes at most, or kids wont watch.  they'll consume a bunch of 30 second tiktoks instead and have plenty of battery life left.