So how do the Dems eliminate Biden?

[zsasz 368]

They don't need to to beat Trump.  

[jonmx 2,429]

29 minutes ago, RLLD said:

U.S. sues Amazon in a monopoly case that could be existential for the retail giant

I wonder if this might impact how the Washington Post now reports on Biden.....

They are also going after Google.   It seems the US government wants to ensure big tech is under their thumb for the next election cycle, just in case they get any funny ideas. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

It’s the primary voters that are concerned about Biden running again. The party machine is all-in on Biden and assuming the base will rally behind him, especially when the only alternative is Trump.

I think it’s potentially a losing strategy. But it would also be quite unprecedented to not go with the incumbent president.  

[RLLD 4,208]

It might be true that they simply have to ensure golks like Kennedy are shut down.   A third party candidate is likely more harmful to Biden than to Trump. I would expect them to leverage the DOJ against Kennedy when we get closer. 

[jonmx 2,429]

13 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

It’s the primary voters that are concerned about Biden running again. The party machine is all-in on Biden and assuming the base will rally behind him, especially when the only alternative is Trump.

I think it’s potentially a losing strategy. But it would also be quite unprecedented to not go with the incumbent president.  

 

That was the point of the post.  The party machine was all in on Biden when they thought they could win and that Trump would be in prison.  Now it looks like Trump is the favorite to win and the party machine has to be rethinking their strategy.  

[MDC 7,345]

1 minute ago, jonmx said:

 

That was the point of the post.  The party machine was all in on Biden when they thought they could win and that Trump would be in prison.  Now it looks like Trump is the favorite to win and the party machine has to be rethinking their strategy.  

There is no one waiting in the wings who’s going to win in 2024. Probably their best bet would be Newsome. Does anyone think he’s a better horse to back than the incumbent POTUS?

[RLLD 4,208]

4 minutes ago, MDC said:

There is no one waiting in the wings who’s going to win in 2024. Probably their best bet would be Newsome. Does anyone think he’s a better horse to back than the incumbent POTUS?

He does seem to be their current intended backup plan.  I am not confident he us up to the task.  His leadership in Cali has not produced great outcomes. We need someone more moderate. Manchin comes to mind.

[MDC 7,345]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

He does seem to be their current intended backup plan.  I am not confident he us up to the task.  His leadership in Cali has not produced great outcomes. We need someone more moderate. Manchin comes to mind.

Yes they definitely want to nominate the Dino from West Virginia.  

[RLLD 4,208]

Just now, MDC said:

Yes they definitely want to nominate the Dino from West Virginia.  

What about him makes him less of a Democrat?  And, could he adjust what ever policy positions he has to appeal to more?

[MDC 7,345]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

What about him makes him less of a Democrat?  And, could he adjust what ever policy positions he has to appeal to more?

Being disliked by his own party and having no crossover appeal is not a great starting position IMO.

[RLLD 4,208]

3 minutes ago, MDC said:

Being disliked by his own party and having no crossover appeal is not a great starting position IMO.

I guess they dislike him for standing up against the spending stuff, which makes sense; we already know that dissention is never allowed in modern liberalism.

He seems to be percieved as centrist by some, and as right-leaning by those on the far left.  He appears to be more of a normal Democrat, a relic of the past.

[MDC 7,345]

14 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I guess they dislike him for standing up against the spending stuff, which makes sense; we already know that dissention is never allowed in modern liberalism.

He seems to be percieved as centrist by some, and as right-leaning by those on the far left.  He appears to be more of a normal Democrat, a relic of the past.

My advice to Dems would be to not back Ray’s favored candidate.  

[RLLD 4,208]

Just now, MDC said:

My advice to Dems would be to not back Ray’s favored candidate.  

[JustinCharge 2,397]

biden is apparently going to blow up the world before we get there.

[zsasz 368]

Problem for the Republicans is the EC.  Biden can lose both GA and AZ and he still wins with NV to spare.  Trump might be polling ahead in places right now; but it's early. As funny as it would be for Trump to win the popular but lose the EC....I don't even really see that happening after losing by 3M in 16 and 7M in 20.

That being said, I'd imagine Biden and Harris aren't inspiring the DNC who is probably just waiting until 2028 when they can promote Wes Moore or Josh Shapiro; both of whom look to be rising stars.  Ironically neither would probably HAVE to wait until 2024, as either would smoke Trump.  They just need to get past Biden/Harris.  

[zsasz 368]

The real tragedy in this election cycle is how Trump and the Republicans have completely gelded DeSantis.  He's cooked nationally.  Ironically, he'd have won running away against Biden.  

[IGotWorms 4,057]

47 minutes ago, zsasz said:

The real tragedy in this election cycle is how Trump and the Republicans have completely gelded DeSantis.  He's cooked nationally.  Ironically, he'd have won running away against Biden.  

I don’t think so. Desantis’s problem is he has no charisma 

[zsasz 368]

6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I don’t think so. Desantis’s problem is he has no charisma 

 

He doesn't....and that hurts him with a guy like Trump.  But against Biden, his lack of charisma wouldn't have been a real problem.  DeSantis would have presented a good enough case of fiscal Conservativsim, morals and a "return to normalcy" that would have been attractive to Centrists and Republican leaning Indys who didn't want to vote for Trump.  To that, if Trump didn't run and endorsed DeSantis, he wouldn't have lost many Trumper votes.  

"Running away" is an exaggeration.....but I do think he would have won fairly comfortably.   

[IGotWorms 4,057]

57 minutes ago, zsasz said:

 

He doesn't....and that hurts him with a guy like Trump.  But against Biden, his lack of charisma wouldn't have been a real problem.  DeSantis would have presented a good enough case of fiscal Conservativsim, morals and a "return to normalcy" that would have been attractive to Centrists and Republican leaning Indys who didn't want to vote for Trump.  To that, if Trump didn't run and endorsed DeSantis, he wouldn't have lost many Trumper votes.  

"Running away" is an exaggeration.....but I do think he would have won fairly comfortably.   

You have to pass the charisma bar. If you don’t, the rest is irrelevant 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

1 hour ago, zsasz said:

 DeSantis would have presented a good enough case of fiscal Conservativsim, morals and a "return to normalcy" that would have been attractive to Centrists and Republican leaning Indys who didn't want to vote for Trump. 

 

Independent voters have swung heavily towards Trump in 2024 polling. 

Independents went heavily for Biden in 2020 54%-41%:  https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2020
Current polling shows Independents in 2024 voting Trump 57%-42%

 

 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

So Trump is +15% over Biden among independents.  Since 1980, no candidate has lost an election when they win independents by double digits.  (Reagan 1980, Reagan 1984, Bush41 1988, Biden 2020).  Interestingly, we went 32 years between elections where a candidate won indys by double digits. 

 

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2020

[Mufaletta 80]

8 hours ago, jonmx said:

With Biden in a double-digit deficit against Satan in polls even by the mainstream government media numbers

 

 

 

Biden has slipped so badly in the polls that he is now trailing Marianne Williamson for the (D) nomination?

[Mufaletta 80]

8 hours ago, jonmx said:

I would suggest a motorcade through Dallas, but the establishment already used that one before. 

Well, Dallas' mayor just flipped from (D) to (R), so blatantly illegal acts sanctioned by the mayor (ala '63) are probably off the table now. 

[Mufaletta 80]

5 hours ago, zsasz said:

The real tragedy in this election cycle is how Trump and the Republicans have completely gelded DeSantis.  He's cooked nationally.  Ironically, he'd have won running away against Biden.  

DeSantis was a fool for running in '24.    He was very popular in FL, could have simply stayed seated in the Gov chair, and been in an almost no lose situation in '28.    If Trump won in '24, and DeSantis backed him, DeSantis would have been in prime position to enter the '28 race as a front runner.    If Trump loses in '24 to Birdbrain, the country would be such a mess by '28, that DeSantis would win in a landslide. 

Patience is a virtue, and DeSantis lack of it may have now cost him a shot at ever becoming President. 

[Voltaire 5,298]

Biden was in town today and there are no indications that he made an ass of himself. He needs to string together more days like that.

[zsasz 368]

3 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

You have to pass the charisma bar. If you don’t, the rest is irrelevant 

I don't know...does Biden have charisma?   Most would say he didn't in 2020....

[zsasz 368]

12 minutes ago, Mufaletta said:

DeSantis was a fool for running in '24.    He was very popular in FL, could have simply stayed seated in the Gov chair, and been in an almost no lose situation in '28.    If Trump won in '24, and DeSantis backed him, DeSantis would have been in prime position to enter the '28 race as a front runner.    If Trump loses in '24 to Birdbrain, the country would be such a mess by '28, that DeSantis would win in a landslide. 

Patience is a virtue, and DeSantis lack of it may have now cost him a shot at ever becoming President. 

 

DeSantis probably could have sat out and waited until 2028.  Trump supporters could also realize that DeSantis was a better choice in 24 and vote for him.  It's not like you'll get something from a Trump Presidency that you wouldn't from a DeSantis Presidency......

[zsasz 368]

3 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

 

Independent voters have swung heavily towards Trump in 2024 polling. 

Independents went heavily for Biden in 2020 54%-41%:  https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2020
Current polling shows Independents in 2024 voting Trump 57%-42%

 

 

Good thing the polls don't close 400+ days before the election starts.......

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Just now, zsasz said:

Good thing the polls don't close 400+ days before the election starts.......

but your point was that Desantis might do a better job at getting independents.  T is already doing extremely well.

[zsasz 368]

13 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

but your point was that Desantis might do a better job at getting independents.  T is already doing extremely well.

Polls right now are a relevant as a fart in a hurricane.  Granted, those polls might hold, but I don't think they will as the election season starts heating up.

 

To that, I think it's more important to see polling basically from 3 states PA, WI, MI.  Those are the only ones that matter if Trump is to win.  

[IGotWorms 4,057]

53 minutes ago, zsasz said:

I don't know...does Biden have charisma?   Most would say he didn't in 2020....

I don’t think you’re being objective here.

Yes, Biden has charisma.

So does Trump.

So did Obama.

W did too. Remember everybody wanted to have a beer with him? And stiff, wooden Gore in comparison?

Bill Clinton had charisma too, of course.

You’d probably have to go back to HW Bush for a president who was possibly deficient in charisma.

And before him, Reagan had oodles.

So, yeah, you gotta have it, and DeSantis does not.

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

1 hour ago, Mufaletta said:

DeSantis was a fool for running in '24.    He was very popular in FL, could have simply stayed seated in the Gov chair, and been in an almost no lose situation in '28.    If Trump won in '24, and DeSantis backed him, DeSantis would have been in prime position to enter the '28 race as a front runner.    If Trump loses in '24 to Birdbrain, the country would be such a mess by '28, that DeSantis would win in a landslide. 

Patience is a virtue, and DeSantis lack of it may have now cost him a shot at ever becoming President. 

 

"Wait Your Turn" can be a 16 year swing. 

Hillary Clinton was told to wait her turn, when it was clear Barack Obama was the rising star. Obama got 8 years in office. Then Trump could have had 8 years in office. It's not uncommon for power to flip every 8 years. 

Projection standpoint alone, it's not hard to gauge a possibility where Biden and/or Trump would pass away naturally in office for a 2nd term. Then advantage goes to the sitting VPOTUS. Also those in the GOP who thought waiting their turn would help them, no one could predict Trump as a pure disruptive event in 2016. 

When you have some momentum, you take your shot. 4 years is a LONG TIME in the political world, then 8, then possibly 16. 

Had DeSantis waited, and Jonny Kim declared for office in 2028, the GOP would back Kim entirely. Or Denzel Washington. These things can shift quickly. At the end of 2020, Dan Crewshaw had a huge opportunity to seize momentum and failed miserably. Sometimes your best chance is a sliver. 

Patience is NOT a virtue. AOC could have waited one more term to see if Crowley would age out, she didn't, and her rise was like a rocketship in the national daily media cycle. 

In retrospect, Hillary Clinton waited too long. That doesn't seem the case as she transitioned almost immediately from FLOTUS to the Senate, but she still waited too long against her age timeline. Her laughing at Kathy Shelton as a child could have been easily concealed before 2015/2016. The internet was much different during Obama's reign. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,333]

6 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

I don’t think so. Desantis’s problem is he has no charisma 

bingo and hes a beta, its sad, cause his policy is great

 

[Voltaire 5,298]

The Dems that run Biden may well toss him aside but the only ones willing to challenge him at this point are Robert Kennedy Jr and Marianne Williams and the Dem establishment doesn't like them, preferring another insider crook.

Polls like this may be outliers. Who knows. Dems are resiliant and may snap back into place as usual.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,348]

 Biden is now wearing sneakers with his suits to help him from falling. Awesome. 

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

11 hours ago, jonmx said:

 So what is the strategy? 

 

You can scratch Ralph Warnock off the list. There were some in the DNC who thought he might be a future riser. However the Women's Health Protection Act was voted on THREE TIMES. It included removing parental notification for minors, up to the moment of birth abortions, using federal tax dollars to facilitate abortion, force those who wanted religious exemptions to perform procedures and blanket wipe all preexisting state laws regarding abortion off the map. It was a gross overreach in ways that cannot be described. It was written by House Democrat Judy Chu from CA as a way to accelerate her own campaign fundraising, it was never meant to be a true national platform. But it's all the DNC had at the time, so Warnock abstained from voting the 2nd time, but had no choice but to line up and vote for it the third time. 

REVEREND Warnock from Georgia had to vote "Yes" for the WHPA. Which effectively ruined him on a national scale. 

There is no strategy, these people are idiots. Team Blue simply had the fortunate luck of having Big Education, Big Tech, Big Social Media and Hollywood be natural clearinghouses for radical activist leftists. 

Democrats will take staggering losses from suburban women voters, working class minority voters and more critically, see massive no shows from younger voters. Sure the DNC can cheat in 2024, but it's a very difficult pathways to cheat to the degree where up to 9 percent of young voters from 2020, who voted for Biden, simply don't show up at all anymore. That's not just the 2024 cycle, that's foreboding for legacy votes. 

You notice @jonmx, as happens again and again, when issues like the ones I discuss are brought up, the natural gaslighting you and I get in return from the activist radical leftists is just more "But Trump"  Never a discussion of the working class. Have you ever noticed that a worthless POS like Tim NEVER talks about the plight of the working class American. Never. 

A lot of people out there don't really like Katie Porter very much. But if you dig into her policy standpoints, they aren't unreasonable. She could win a general election with full Party support. She could actually help working class Americans. But she can't be controlled so the DNC, DCCC and the remnants of the Obama/Clinton/Biden machine won't back someone like that. They'll only back an idiotic cutout like Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom.  Amy Klobuchar, Abagail Spanberger, Porter and others, there are actually Democrats who would legitimately churn out policy that supports rank and file every day Americans, but you never hear from them. The activist left leaning MSM won't really cover them. Some will say that they don't have the "energy" but the truth is they can't be fully controlled. 

You can't leapfrog Biden without doing so to Harris first. It has to be a minority and there is no bench. A lot of Democrats don't like Tulsi Gabbard, but she can win. She could have won in 2020 easily against Trump. With fully Party support. But, again, she couldn't be controlled. 

The Biden Problem is a self inflicted mess. How do you control Big Tech, most of Big Social Media, Hollywood, Big Education and most of the MSM and fail like this? 

Unless Biden expires naturally, there is no easy way to get him out of office or running again. And since Trump is looking stronger to win, there will be endless riots, looting and burning in 2024 if Trump manages to survive the cheating and and what will likely be an assassination attempt on his life at some point from the corporate establishment.  For the radical activist leftists here, eventually it will seep into your life, your neighborhoods, near your kids. Then you get to watch your life burn. You can oppose Trump AND support something other than identity politics at the exact same time. Cenk Ughur of The Young Turks hates Trump. But he also understands that if working class Americans can't afford rent and food, then that's the fastest way to lose elections and get crushed by policy you will likely oppose. His stance, and it's a fair one, is to support alternative Democrats. Or help to foster them up in power positions. 

I have no quarrel with traditional liberals, but some of the leftists here will likely live just long enough to see their kids lined up against a wall. Hate Trump if you want. But blindly justifying the endless persecution sets a pathway where it can happen to anyone else too. If they don't want to support Republicans, then don't, because many in the GOP are corrupt idiots too, but instead seek out alternatives. That's not what most choose though, they choose to support a pathway where their children become future cannon fodder. 

This entire mess is part of Obama's third "shadow term', and history will not be kind to his long term legacy. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,348]

Getting rid of Biden is easy. Getting rid of Kamala is the hard part. I give you the modern democrat party. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

2 hours ago, zsasz said:

Polls right now are a relevant as a fart in a hurricane.  Granted, those polls might hold, but I don't think they will as the election season starts heating up.

To that, I think it's more important to see polling basically from 3 states PA, WI, MI.  Those are the only ones that matter if Trump is to win.  

Currently, all 3 are for Biden to varying degrees, just as they were in 2020.  Georgia and Arizona are currently flipping red tho.  the state of New York is blue, and usually the democrat wins by like 30%, but recent polls show Bidens lead is almost down to single digits.  As Ive said many times, young blacks are voting more conservative than previous generations, and that might just turn New York purple.  I just wonder if the illegal immigration crisis in NYC could actually flip that damn state red.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,348]

30 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

Currently, all 3 are for Biden to varying degrees, just as they were in 2020.  Georgia and Arizona are currently flipping red tho.  the state of New York is blue, and usually the democrat wins by like 30%, but recent polls show Bidens lead is almost down to single digits.  As Ive said many times, young blacks are voting more conservative than previous generations, and that might just turn New York purple.  I just wonder if the illegal immigration crisis in NYC could actually flip that damn state red.

Hochul didn’t win by a whole lot for governor. It wouldn’t take that much. It’s nit that long ago NY had a Republican Governor and NYC had a Republican mayor. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,348]

Cuomo won by 24 points. Hochul won by 5.