Biden Building the Wall

[RogerDodger 798]

Reinstate Remain in Mexico too dummies.  

[BuckSwope 654]

24 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Its patently absurd to think we are going to eliminate all government spending and to then say, well we waste a lot of $$ on other things..let's get rid of ALL those expenditures before we spend a small amount of money on a wall.   Idiotic

At 0 point did I use those words - that is on you.    I've been against the wall because I don't think it's going to largely address our problem and it's a waste of tax money.   I'm not sure why that is an idiotic position to hold when looking at issues.  

[IGotWorms 4,058]

10 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I believe in border security. But I doubt a wall is such a good idea. 

All the border security in the world isn’t going to solve this problem though. What we need is to reform our immigration system. And even more importantly than that, we need to address the reasons these people are coming here: terrible economic conditions caused by political instability and man made climate change. If we don’t address these fundamental issues we could build a thousand walls and it won’t stop our problems. 

Well also that we want cheap and willing labor. If we actually prohibited people from hiring illegal immigrants it would eviscerate the market for their services. But we don’t do that, because we actually do want their labor 

[BuckSwope 654]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Well also that we want cheap and willing labor. If we actually prohibited people from hiring illegal immigrants it would eviscerate the market for their services. But we don’t do that, because we actually do want their labor 

Correct.   The right needs to admit this part, and the left needs to admit it can't be a free for all.    

[supermike80 1,911]

9 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

At 0 point did I use those words - that is on you.    I've been against the wall because I don't think it's going to largely address our problem and it's a waste of tax money.   I'm not sure why that is an idiotic position to hold when looking at issues.  

Because saying it is a waste of tax dollars is stupid...Seriously stupid.  And yes, it wont largely address the issue.  But hat harm will it do?  Outside, of course, feelings.

 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

1 minute ago, BuckSwope said:

Correct.   The right needs to admit this part, and the left needs to admit it can't be a free for all.    

But then the right can’t get their stupid base up in arms and use it to win elections  

[supermike80 1,911]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

The harm is that it sends a terrible message to the world, the opposite of the Statue of Liberty. 

Here's a thought.  On the Mexican side of the wall.  Paint statues of Liberty everywhere.  And under them, in spanish of course, say "You are all welcome to come here legally."

Will that make you feel better?

[The Real timschochet 6,763]

3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Here's a thought.  On the Mexican side of the wall.  Paint statues of Liberty everywhere.  And under them, in spanish of course, say "You are all welcome to come here legally."

Will that make you feel better?

If you mean it. But you don’t. For most Mexicans and other Latinos the only way to come here is illegally. There is no legal path, no line. 

[BuckSwope 654]

Just now, supermike80 said:

Because saying it is a waste of tax dollars is stupid...Seriously stupid.  And yes, it wont largely address the issue.  But hat harm will it do?  Outside, of course, feelings.

 

Why, you just admitted that it won't address the issue.   You ask what the "harm" is and I answered - more gubment waste, and it's not addressing the issue.     On top of that, a complete walling off of the border like many here want would tank our economy more, so that is another part of it - it could become too restrictive.   

I always thought the conservatives were for smaller government and less bloat, so I am curious why it doesn't apply to an issue like this where you have also stated a couple times it won't address the issue.  I feel like I am in bizzaro world or something.  

[BuckSwope 654]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

If you mean it. But you don’t. For most Mexicans and other Latinos the only way to come here is illegally. There is no legal path, no line. 

Claiming asylum is not a legal path? 

[MDC 7,425]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

They did, I looked into this a bit further....he is pushing for 20 miles of wall....which means this is purely a political stunt to be able to say he did something......nothing more.....  

What a POS he is.....pretending to care.....pretending he is acting.....just to be able to say in some debate or sh!t that he took action.....focking filthly punk arse little b!tch....

 epic meltdown

[TheNewGirl 1,491]

Wait, what? 

 

I thought he was against this? 

[supermike80 1,911]

Just now, BuckSwope said:

Why, you just admitted that it won't address the issue.   You ask what the "harm" is and I answered - more gubment waste, and it's not addressing the issue.     On top of that, a complete walling off of the border like many here want would tank our economy more, so that is another part of it - it could become too restrictive.   

I always thought the conservatives were for smaller government and less bloat, so I am curious why it doesn't apply to an issue like this where you have also stated a couple times it won't address the issue.  I feel like I am in bizzaro world or something.  

I admitted it won't fix the problem.  That's silly to think that..But I do believe it would help.    A wall isn't larger or smaller government.   Where did that come from?

[supermike80 1,911]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If you mean it. But you don’t. For most Mexicans and other Latinos the only way to come here is illegally. There is no legal path, no line. 

I do mean it. I have zero issue with that.   Legal immigration is perfectly fine with me.   

[BuckSwope 654]

Just now, supermike80 said:

I admitted it won't fix the problem.  That's silly to think that..But I do believe it would help.    A wall isn't larger or smaller government.   Where did that come from?

More tangentially about other issues where I feel I am on the side of smaller government but the right is for around here.   Not as much here.   

For me it doesn't have to be any harder than being against ideas I don't think will significantly address these issues.   To me a physical wall is so far down the list of ways we should address it, it becomes a pretty dumb idea.   But that's how I approach each issue.  

[MDC 7,425]

Biden already pulled us out of Afghanistan and passed an infrastructure bill. Now he’s building the wall. Next year he’ll get Mexico to pay for it and replace the ACA with “something wonderful,” this fulfilling all of Trump’s failed 2016 campaign promises.

 

[Baker Boy 1,699]

This is all about The impoundment act.

[supermike80 1,911]

14 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

More tangentially about other issues where I feel I am on the side of smaller government but the right is for around here.   Not as much here.   

For me it doesn't have to be any harder than being against ideas I don't think will significantly address these issues.   To me a physical wall is so far down the list of ways we should address it, it becomes a pretty dumb idea.   But that's how I approach each issue.  

I think it would help a great deal. Does it eliminate the problem? Nope.  But it can't hurt.  At all. Not even a tiny bit.  Cept feelings.  But I addressed that one already

[IGotWorms 4,058]

22 minutes ago, MDC said:

 epic meltdown

I could literally hear the tears hitting the floor 

[BuckSwope 654]

2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I think it would help a great deal. Does it eliminate the problem? Nope.  But it can't hurt.  At all. Not even a tiny bit.  Cept feelings.  But I addressed that one already

Well, that's a different tone than what I thought your original posts were stating.   You seem to be saying it won't help much, but who cares it won't hurt.   

So we disagree that it would help a great deal, and it can hurt more than just feels - it for sure can stifle our economy and possibly raise prices a lot.   

[supermike80 1,911]

9 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Well, that's a different tone than what I thought your original posts were stating.   You seem to be saying it won't help much, but who cares it won't hurt.   

So we disagree that it would help a great deal, and it can hurt more than just feels - it for sure can stifle our economy and possibly raise prices a lot.   

Hang on a second.  If you claim it is ineffective, and wont do much of anything, how then can it hurt our economy and raise prices a lot?   That makes no sense.

[BuckSwope 654]

13 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Hang on a second.  If you claim it is ineffective, and wont do much of anything, how then can it hurt our economy and raise prices a lot?   That makes no sense.

I am talking about the issue of our borders and illegals in general.    IMO the way bigger root causes are that they: 1. get hired  2. have very easy path to exploit in our asylum process, and 3. now get protection and benefits.     When I say a wall is an ineffective solution to our border and immigration, this is what I am talking about.  It doesn't address any of those 3 things, and rarely see talk of 1 or 2 from either side of the aisle.   

IF you are just wanting to stop or slow the flow, then sure it can be effective, but I would argue that other methods would be a better use of money like drones, tech, enforcement.   A wall seems antiquated and silly at this point, IMO.   When I say there could be harm is going back to part 1 - these people are being hired for a reason.  Profits, they are needed, and their low wages keep prices in line.     We can't ignore the impact they have on our economy, so a possible harm is reducing that flow past the point where it starts effecting those things.  

I just don't understand people's obsession with this wall.  I think it's a dumb waste of money.  

[The Real timschochet 6,763]

59 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Claiming asylum is not a legal path? 

Not for those seeking to come for economic reasons. Not really for anyone from Mexico. 

[supermike80 1,911]

2 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I am talking about the issue of our borders and illegals in general.    IMO the way bigger root causes are that they: 1. get hired  2. have very easy path to exploit in our asylum process, and 3. now get protection and benefits.     When I say a wall is an ineffective solution to our border and immigration, this is what I am talking about.  It doesn't address any of those 3 things, and rarely see talk of 1 or 2 from either side of the aisle.   

IF you are just wanting to stop or slow the flow, then sure it can be effective, but I would argue that other methods would be a better use of money like drones, tech, enforcement.   A wall seems antiquated and silly at this point, IMO.   When I say there could be harm is going back to part 1 - these people are being hired for a reason.  Profits, they are needed, and their low wages keep prices in line.     We can't ignore the impact they have on our economy, so a possible harm is reducing that flow past the point where it starts effecting those things.  

I just don't understand people's obsession with this wall.  I think it's a dumb waste of money.  

Again, I'm not obsessed.   What I don't get is the obsession against it since it literally does no harm at all.   So why not put it up?

[The Real timschochet 6,763]

26 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Hang on a second.  If you claim it is ineffective, and wont do much of anything, how then can it hurt our economy and raise prices a lot?   That makes no sense.

It’s very difficult to stop and search all entry points without slowing down free trade. That’s the problem Abbott ran into. Even slowing down trade for a few hours cost Texas’s economy millions of dollars. 

[supermike80 1,911]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s very difficult to stop and search all entry points without slowing down free trade. That’s the problem Abbott ran into. Even slowing down trade for a few hours cost Texas’s economy millions of dollars. 

LOL what???  Is there free trade coming across the river?  Dude...stop it.  Seriously

[The Real timschochet 6,763]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Again, I'm not obsessed.   What I don't get is the obsession against it since it literally does no harm at all.   So why not put it up?

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-wall-the-real-costs-of-a-barrier-between-the-united-states-and-mexico/
 

Urge you to read this and then reconsider your assertion of “no harm at all.” 

[BuckSwope 654]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Not for those seeking to come for economic reasons. Not really for anyone from Mexico. 

I guess what I am saying is that:  Show up -> claim asylum -> get your day in court to prove your case  is a legal pathway, correct.   We know and they know they aren't coming for the "proper" claims of asylum, but IMO that is on us for letting it get to the point where it's a 4.5 year wait for the court date.   We allowed that legal pathway to become severely backlogged and it basically means nothing now.   So here we are - show up, when you get caught claim asylum and still get let in.  You have about 5 years to work and figure it out.   It's a huge reason why we have the numbers we do - it's pretty easy to get in (once you get here, not the trip to get here). 

[edjr 6,586]

wouldn’t a boiling oil moat be cheaper?

[BuckSwope 654]

4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Again, I'm not obsessed.   What I don't get is the obsession against it since it literally does no harm at all.   So why not put it up?

Only so many times I can answer the question the same way.   We just disagree, man.  

[The Real timschochet 6,763]

I believe Biden is pandering to nativist populism and it’s regrettable. Undocumented immigrants are not a source of violent crime despite the constant anecdotes that they are. They are a vital part of our economic growth. The wall is wasteful and will actually hurt our economy. 

[supermike80 1,911]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-wall-the-real-costs-of-a-barrier-between-the-united-states-and-mexico/
 

Urge you to read this and then reconsider your assertion of “no harm at all.” 

There is literally NOTHING there that says it's harmful.  Nothing.   Shocker that you linked a Trump focused article, with your liberal blindness that's not shocking.  All the thing said, in their opinion, is it changes nothing.  No harm from it.   Zero.  Boy you're so biased its truly gross at times.  If the argument for "harm" is less illegals enter here, and that hurts money being sent back to Mexico....well thats not gonna sell it for me.

I just don't understand how you can claim to be non biased, yet continue to consume stuff like that article.  TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP...Over and over.  You can't recognize bias in media.  Of course we have been over that about a trillion times, and here is yet another example.

[The Real timschochet 6,763]

2 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I guess what I am saying is that:  Show up -> claim asylum -> get your day in court to prove your case  is a legal pathway, correct.   We know and they know they aren't coming for the "proper" claims of asylum, but IMO that is on us for letting it get to the point where it's a 4.5 year wait for the court date.   We allowed that legal pathway to become severely backlogged and it basically means nothing now.   So here we are - show up, when you get caught claim asylum and still get let in.  You have about 5 years to work and figure it out.   It's a huge reason why we have the numbers we do - it's pretty easy to get in (once you get here, not the trip to get here). 

Yes we need to revamp the asylum laws. We need to revise the whole system. But guys like @supermike80 aren’t for that. They just want to keep everyone out and they think that solution will work. It won’t. 

[The Real timschochet 6,763]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

There is literally NOTHING there that says it's harmful.  Nothing.   Shocker that you linked a Trump focused article, with your liberal blindness that's not shocking.  All the thing said, in their opinion, is it changes nothing.  No harm from it.   Zero.  Boy you're so biased its truly gross at times.  If the argument for "harm" is less illegals enter here, and that hurts money being sent back to Mexico....well thats not gonna sell it for me.

I just don't understand how you can claim to be non biased, yet continue to consume stuff like that article.  TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP...Over and over.  You can't recognize bias in media.  Of course we have been over that about a trillion times, and here is yet another example.

Sorry that you didn’t read it. If you had you would have read the part about how terrible it will be for our economy. 

[zsasz 369]

Trump made building the wall a tentpole for his 2016 campaign.  If he didnt' get it done in his 4 years....Biden ain't doing nothing.....

[The Real timschochet 6,763]

Here’s another one: 

https://news.stanford.edu/press-releases/2018/11/15/border-wall-cameefit-u-s-workers/

High cost, low positive impact. 
 

But hey don’t trust economists on both the right and the left- after all they’re all probably globalists anyhow, right? Trust @supermike80 on the internet! After all his gut tells him this will do literally no harm! 

[supermike80 1,911]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Here’s another one: 

https://news.stanford.edu/press-releases/2018/11/15/border-wall-cameefit-u-s-workers/

High cost, low positive impact. 
 

But hey don’t trust economists on both the right and the left- after all they’re all probably globalists anyhow, right? Trust @supermike80 on the internet! After all his gut tells him this will do literally no harm! 

Its an opinion ball bag.  Just like yours.  I am asking no one to trust me.  I have asked, and gotten zero reply, on what the harm is.   That was it.  You linked some absurd article that answered none of that, yet you can't see that because you can't understand media..Even a little bit.

And lo and behold, i am NOT the only one advocating it's use.  I guess everyone is dumb except you.

[MDC 7,425]

52 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I could literally hear the tears hitting the floor 

 

[supermike80 1,911]

10 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Only so many times I can answer the question the same way.   We just disagree, man.  

Which is fine by me.   At least you stayed away from saying it hurt feelings.....

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

22 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not for those seeking to come for economic reasons. Not really for anyone from Mexico. 

Let them go elsewhwere for economic reasons.  Since, as you repeatedly claim, this influx is beneficial surely other nations would welcome that benefit, particularly the more enlightened ones.