Details released on bipartisan immigration bill that MAGAturds don't want because it vaporizes a Clownzo campaign issue

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,239]

Not a trump supporter not a Biden supporter. 
I’m an American supporter

which means that any bill that doesn’t address the border and gives money to other countries is sh1t. I don’t need the words bipartisan or border security or TDS to give me that opinion. It’s all a lie. 
 

 

[RLLD 4,143]

21 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The other day all of the essential facts were out there and you found the bill reasonable and worth supporting. What specifically have you learned that changed your mind? 

The gamesman ship to not impeded immigration, but to instead pretend through crafty wording, but in reality just reroute people once you hit a certain number to other ports of entry.....which is inane....

It includes a new temporary emergency border authority to mandate Title 42-style expulsions of migrants when migration levels exceed 5,000 a day over a seven-day rolling average, and it narrows asylum eligibility while expediting the process, provides additional work permits for asylum seekers and funds a massive increase in staffing for Customs and Border Protection and asylum officers.

I want to believe that these people have no idea how the border works.....but I think they might.....and I think they already know that the cartels will react to this legislation just like they have to other such inane efforts....and reroute people.....I mean, how focking stupid does one have to be to think this would ever work?

CLOSE THE BORDER.....

It also increases temporary visas and green cards, while establishing an expedited pathway for Afghans who were evacuated to the U.S. The legislation also includes $1.4 billion in FEMA funding for non-governmental organizations and cities to help settle migrants.  Noooo.....NO!!!   Do NOT incentive these people to come here, stupid FOCKS.....

The $650 million to build and reinforce the border wall???    What, walls work now? Really?

It will also provide $450 million to countries to help them remove and integrate illegal immigrants back into their countries. SO.....we incentivize them to come.....and they pay to send them back?  NO......take that money and invest it in urban blight remediation.....

Further.....the bill would codify the border crisis and severely limit any future enforcement-minded administration from securing the border.

 

[The Psychic Observer 496]

3 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Not a trump supporter not a Biden supporter. 
I’m an American supporter

which means that any bill that doesn’t address the border and gives money to other countries is sh1t. I don’t need the words bipartisan or border security or TDS to give me that opinion. It’s all a lie. 
 

 

How did you come to the conclusion that this border bill doesn't address the border?

[The Real timschochet 6,436]

13 minutes ago, RLLD said:

The gamesman ship to not impeded immigration, but to instead pretend through crafty wording, but in reality just reroute people once you hit a certain number to other ports of entry.....which is inane....

It includes a new temporary emergency border authority to mandate Title 42-style expulsions of migrants when migration levels exceed 5,000 a day over a seven-day rolling average, and it narrows asylum eligibility while expediting the process, provides additional work permits for asylum seekers and funds a massive increase in staffing for Customs and Border Protection and asylum officers.

I want to believe that these people have no idea how the border works.....but I think they might.....and I think they already know that the cartels will react to this legislation just like they have to other such inane efforts....and reroute people.....I mean, how focking stupid does one have to be to think this would ever work?

CLOSE THE BORDER.....

It also increases temporary visas and green cards, while establishing an expedited pathway for Afghans who were evacuated to the U.S. The legislation also includes $1.4 billion in FEMA funding for non-governmental organizations and cities to help settle migrants.  Noooo.....NO!!!   Do NOT incentive these people to come here, stupid FOCKS.....

The $650 million to build and reinforce the border wall???    What, walls work now? Really?

It will also provide $450 million to countries to help them remove and integrate illegal immigrants back into their countries. SO.....we incentivize them to come.....and they pay to send them back?  NO......take that money and invest it in urban blight remediation.....

Further.....the bill would codify the border crisis and severely limit any future enforcement-minded administration from securing the border.

 

“CLOSE THE BORDER” is a meaningless phrase unless you provide specifics as to what you mean. I agree with you that this wouldn’t  mean much to the cartels, but illegal inmigration was never the primary source of fetanyl anyhow. I agree that the border wall won’t work but it’s what you guys wanted. ALL of this bill is what you guys wanted. 

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

“CLOSE THE BORDER” is a meaningless phrase unless you provide specifics as to what you mean. I agree with you that this wouldn’t  mean much to the cartels, but illegal inmigration was never the primary source of fetanyl anyhow. I agree that the border wall won’t work but it’s what you guys wanted. ALL of this bill is what you guys wanted. 

I mean it as stated, like when Democrats said Defund the Police means DEFUND the police, y'know?\

Stop all movement across the border, period.  There will be a commercial impact, and that is motivational for Mexico to step up as well.

Get the national guard out there, grab those violating our sovereignty as they do it, put them back on the other side of the border.....over and over and over.....send the message.....stop coming.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,239]

19 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

How did you come to the conclusion that this border bill doesn't address the border?

Because we don’t need a bill to address the border. I’ve stated that on 5 separate occasions in this thread alone. 
 

any bill that allows up to 5000 and more illegal crossings a day is not fixing sh1t

[seafoam1 2,803]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

“CLOSE THE BORDER” is a meaningless phrase unless you provide specifics as to what you mean. I agree with you that this wouldn’t  mean much to the cartels, but illegal inmigration was never the primary source of fetanyl anyhow. I agree that the border wall won’t work but it’s what you guys wanted. ALL of this bill is what you guys wanted. 

Think of it as closing an office and only employees are allowed inside. And then make it closed all the time to the public because only employees belong there.

 

[The Psychic Observer 496]

4 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Because we don’t need a bill to address the border. I’ve stated that on 5 separate occasions in this thread alone. 
 

well most intelligent people disagree with your belief.  You can state it 500 times doesn't make it true.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,239]

2 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

well most intelligent people disagree with your belief.  You can state it 500 times doesn't make it true.

really, so the border has always been like this?  or is this something new and unprecedented, cause seems to me at every other time we had an influx we didnt need to ship them all over the US cause the current administration fails to enforce the laws on the books? We would just catch and deport, now its catch and release

give me Obama era enforcement

 

[Baker Boy 1,688]

54 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I assume you are talking about his 2017 numbers.   Which is before allowing the highest spike in a decade, leading to the policies that people are touting around here like Title 42 and Remain in Mexico, then the numbers dropped again.    Then they were back down to what they had been for most of the decade.   

Just think it's odd to take credit for that low number, but not admitting it was before he allowed that spike that led to policies I assume you like.   Also it's odd that those policies and drop also came right before an election, but that never seems to be honestly admitted by his followers either.   Yes, the border under Biden is way worse and the border is a sh1t show now.   I just think it's funny that people tout Trump as a one of a kind border hawk when after his policies he didn't even have as low as numbers as the previous administration.   

 

FACTSHEET: FINAL FY23 NUMBERS SHOW WORST YEAR AT AMERICA’S BORDERS—EVER

 

https://homeland.house.gov/2023/10/26/factsheet-final-fy23-numbers-show-worst-year-at-americas-borders-ever/

 

Biden lowest year of illegal border crossings is higher than Trump’s highest year of the legal board of crossings.
 

 

[seafoam1 2,803]

5 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

really, so the border has always been like this?  or is this something new and unprecedented, cause seems to me at every other time we had an influx we didnt need to ship them all over the US cause the current administration fails to enforce the laws on the books? We would just catch and deport, now its catch and release

give me Obama era enforcement

 

You didn't know that the US has always had 300,000+ illegals a month coming into the US like this past December? 

[The Real timschochet 6,436]

19 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I mean it as stated, like when Democrats said Defund the Police means DEFUND the police, y'know?\

Stop all movement across the border, period.  There will be a commercial impact and that is motivational for Mexico to step up as well.

Get the national guard out there, grab those violating our sovereignty as they do it, put them back on the other side of the border.....over and over and over.....send the message.....stop coming.

You think? 
 

That “commercial impact” you’re referring to would be an economic catastrophe that would be far far greater than any impact of undocumented immigrants, and it wouldn’t take very long. Thats why your idea is unworkable. It will never happen. 

[The Psychic Observer 496]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

You think? 
 

That “commercial impact” you’re referring to would be an economic catastrophe that would be far far greater than any impact of undocumented immigrants, and it wouldn’t take very long. Thats why your idea is unworkable. It will never happen. 

Not even Trump ever fully closed the border and I would hope never would.

[The Real timschochet 6,436]

10 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

FACTSHEET: FINAL FY23 NUMBERS SHOW WORST YEAR AT AMERICA’S BORDERS—EVER

 

https://homeland.house.gov/2023/10/26/factsheet-final-fy23-numbers-show-worst-year-at-americas-borders-ever/

 

Biden lowest year of illegal border crossings is higher than Trump’s highest year of the legal board of crossings.
 

 

But it’s also higher than Obama’s or Bush’s. Which indicates two facts: 

1. The current crisis has nothing to do with Biden’s policies. 
2. The current crisis would have occurred almost exactly the same if Trump was President right now. 
 

This is a new situation and has nothing to do with previous or current policies on the border. 

[RLLD 4,143]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You think? 
 

That “commercial impact” you’re referring to would be an economic catastrophe that would be far far greater than any impact of undocumented immigrants, and it wouldn’t take very long. Thats why your idea is unworkable. It will never happen. 

It would cost us less than paying for these people 

[Baker Boy 1,688]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

But it’s also higher than Obama’s or Bush’s. Which indicates two facts: 

1. The current crisis has nothing to do with Biden’s policies. 
2. The current crisis would have occurred almost exactly the same if Trump was President right now. 
 

This is a new situation and has nothing to do with previous or current policies on the border. 

It has to do with Biden removing Trump policies and replacing them with his own. The facts prove you wrong.

 

Illegal border encounters:

2023: 2,476,000

2022: 2,379,000

2021: 1,735,000

2020: 400,00

[The Real timschochet 6,436]

Just now, RLLD said:

It would cost us less than paying for these people 

No. It wouldn’t. It’s not even close. Our trade at the southern border exceeds a billion dollars a day. 

[The Real timschochet 6,436]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

It has to do with Biden removing Trump policies and replacing them with his own. The facts prove you wrong.

 

Illegal border encounters:

2023: 2,476,000

2022: 2,379,000

2021: 1,735,000

2020: 400,00

Go back another 10 years. Obama’s policies are essentially the same as Biden’s. Your analysis is flawed. 

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. It wouldn’t. It’s not even close. Our trade at the southern border exceeds a billion dollars a day. 

Yes it would, and its not even close.   And we would not need it for long.   Stemming the tide starts with discouragement, it works every time....its why gangs steal in NYC and sell the good in Florida

[The Real timschochet 6,436]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

Yes it would, and its not even close.   And we would not need it for long.   Stemming the tide starts with discouragement, it works every time....its why gangs steal in NYC and sell the good in Florida

You’re wrong but thankfully we’ll never have to learn how wrong you are. Because we will never close the border. 

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

You’re wrong but thankfully we’ll never have to learn how wrong you are. Because we will never close the border. 

Unfortunately you are correct, and so we accept the problem without meaningful action. It would seem that liberals are inclined toward this end.   Let it fester, let it get worse....but never implement actual solutions, because we are afraid.....  

[BuckSwope 654]

30 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

FACTSHEET: FINAL FY23 NUMBERS SHOW WORST YEAR AT AMERICA’S BORDERS—EVER

 

https://homeland.house.gov/2023/10/26/factsheet-final-fy23-numbers-show-worst-year-at-americas-borders-ever/

 

Biden lowest year of illegal border crossings is higher than Trump’s highest year of the legal board of crossings.
 

 

Lol, no sh1t .  That was in the chart I linked and I said the border is a sh1t show under Biden.   Way to not respond to my post or any point I was making.    

[BuckSwope 654]

20 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

But it’s also higher than Obama’s or Bush’s. Which indicates two facts: 

1. The current crisis has nothing to do with Biden’s policies. 
2. The current crisis would have occurred almost exactly the same if Trump was President right now. 
 

This is a new situation and has nothing to do with previous or current policies on the border. 

1.  Of course it has to do with Biden and his policies.   The numbers are astronomical compared to other administrations recently that is on Biden and his choices.  

2.  We can't know that.   It's just as likely he numbers hovered near the 2020 numbers or above, still not as bad as Joe's.  

 

Like I said to me what the data says is that Trump isn't any better or worse than Obama or Bush so touting him as "closing" the borders or fixing the solution is silly.  Also the timing is similar in that he dropped those numbers right before the election, just like Biden is trying to do.   Weird the Trumpers don't understand either thing, all they can come up with is "but Biden!".  

[Baker Boy 1,688]

6 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Lol, no sh1t .  That was in the chart I linked and I said the border is a sh1t show under Biden.   Way to not respond to my post or any point I was making.    

What post and why point?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,946]

So, does anyone think Biden will take  any executive action to address the border? 

[BuckSwope 654]

24 minutes ago, RLLD said:

It would cost us less than paying for these people 

Is that just a guess, or is there something to back that up?   

When I imagine the border being like some here seem to want - close the border, kick out all illegals - I think about all the industries that would effect as far as consumer cost and stock prices that rely on those cheap wages.   I'm not sure I agree with your stance, but that's just opinion.  I'd like more reading on that.  

[BuckSwope 654]

5 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

What post and why point?

   Nevermind.  Another poster that doesn't even read posts they quote.  

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

16 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

What post and why point?

Trump ran as a border hawk. Democrats fought him at every turn. On wall funding, on family separation, screamed about "concentration camps", lied about "kids in cages!". Remain in Mexico is racist! Many Dem city and states declared as sanctuaries. Called to eliminate ICE, & defund BP. They sued when he signed asylum proclamation. Scoffed when Trump warned of caravans. 

Leftist groups and NGOs worked and urged a surge at border with funding from the UN via China and taxpayer dollars. This is a fact. They tell us thousands upon thousands of illegals organized and marched in lockstep to the border with zero help because of climate change. These people are liars and filth. They claimed every year the border was secure until about a week ago.  Now it’s a crisis and Trump is to blame. The left are garbage people. 

[The Real timschochet 6,436]

22 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

1.  Of course it has to do with Biden and his policies.   The numbers are astronomical compared to other administrations recently that is on Biden and his choices.  

2.  We can't know that.   It's just as likely he numbers hovered near the 2020 numbers or above, still not as bad as Joe's.  

 

Like I said to me what the data says is that Trump isn't any better or worse than Obama or Bush so touting him as "closing" the borders or fixing the solution is silly.  Also the timing is similar in that he dropped those numbers right before the election, just like Biden is trying to do.   Weird the Trumpers don't understand either thing, all they can come up with is "but Biden!".  

Look, if Trump’s numbers roughly match Obama’s numbers, and the only thing that Biden has done is return policy back to what Obama was doing, then I don’t see how you can blame this current explosion on Biden. Logically if that was the case, then the numbers would have been large under Obama, small under Trump, and large again under Biden. But that is not the case. That’s why I conclude that this current explosion is not a result of Biden’s policies (though as President it is his responsibility whether or not he is to blame for it.) 

[RLLD 4,143]

19 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Is that just a guess, or is there something to back that up?   

When I imagine the border being like some here seem to want - close the border, kick out all illegals - I think about all the industries that would effect as far as consumer cost and stock prices that rely on those cheap wages.   I'm not sure I agree with your stance, but that's just opinion.  I'd like more reading on that.  

I read something, will go find it.

cui prodest? Just consider, if you will, who is likely to win from this obviously illegal maneuver..Democrats think they are stacking the voting for the future.....who wins when you have cheap labor?  Hell, who loses when labor is cheap?

If you think about what is happening here, the reality begins to become evident.

[Strike 5,206]

32 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So, does anyone think Biden will take  any executive action to address the border? 

There is an article saying he's considering it. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,740]

33 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So, does anyone think Biden will take  any executive action to address the border? 

And remove possible voters, hell no! 

[BuckSwope 654]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Look, if Trump’s numbers roughly match Obama’s numbers, and the only thing that Biden has done is return policy back to what Obama was doing, then I don’t see how you can blame this current explosion on Biden. Logically if that was the case, then the numbers would have been large under Obama, small under Trump, and large again under Biden. But that is not the case. That’s why I conclude that this current explosion is not a result of Biden’s policies (though as President it is his responsibility whether or not he is to blame for it.) 

To me, that doesn't account for the huge rise before his policies like Remain in Mexico and other Trump policies in 2019, which brought the numbers down.    So I don't think you are correct here.  Unless I am missing a key piece of info that Trump took away policies from the Obama era causing that spike that he had to correct, I think it's more accurate to say that some combo of Obama + Trump was needed to just maintain keeping it at that level after seeing it spike. 

Now, you can debate back and forth if you agree with Remain in Mexico, but that was a primary reason for that drop.  Hard to have encounters when they have to wait on the other side.  I don't get how you can't place the blame on Biden for reversing that.  OR at the very least, like we have seen him do elsewhere - do something without a plan.   Remain in Mexico shouldn't have been reversed without a countering plan to keep the encounters at a maintainable level.   All this is on Biden.  He acted like all he cared about is points from the idiot base for reversing Trump policies, no plan, and we see what the result is.  

 

[BuckSwope 654]

13 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I read something, will go find it.

cui prodest? Just consider, if you will, who is likely to win from this obviously illegal maneuver..Democrats think they are stacking the voting for the future.....who wins when you have cheap labor?  Hell, who loses when labor is cheap?

If you think about what is happening here, the reality begins to become evident.

Again, we disagree on this being a main motivator for people in power.   IF they think that they are stupid, hell trends are showing this population moving more and more from the Democrats as well.   I guess I see why you guys want to believe that, but I am still of the opinion that boths sides care way more about the almighty $.   

Who wins when you have cheap labor?  The 1%, lobbyists for big Ag, company profits - need I go on?   Start tracing the money - there are powerful companies who profit on locking these people up and the deportation of them - you think they want the border shut down?   American working class a little with cheaper goods, but that is offset by the below...

Who loses when you have cheap labor?  Mostly the American poor and working class as these people eat up jobs on the cheap and take a away resources.  

 

So I ask you - where do you disagree with my assessment above, and who do you think have the real power in the country and which side is going to win in the long run.   Yes, most of us care when the border and our cities are being overrun.   My position is neither side truly cares too much to close it off completely, they are happy playing the political football for us rubes while they squeeze as much profits out as possible.   

[RLLD 4,143]

7 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Again, we disagree on this being a main motivator for people in power.   IF they think that they are stupid, hell trends are showing this population moving more and more from the Democrats as well.   I guess I see why you guys want to believe that, but I am still of the opinion that boths sides care way more about the almighty $.   

Who wins when you have cheap labor?  The 1%, lobbyists for big Ag, company profits - need I go on?   Start tracing the money - there are powerful companies who profit on locking these people up and the deportation of them - you think they want the border shut down?   American working class a little with cheaper goods, but that is offset by the below...

Who loses when you have cheap labor?  Mostly the American poor and working class as these people eat up jobs on the cheap and take a away resources.  

 

So I ask you - where do you disagree with my assessment above, and who do you think have the real power in the country and which side is going to win in the long run.   Yes, most of us care when the border and our cities are being overrun.   My position is neither side truly cares too much to close it off completely, they are happy playing the political football for us rubes while they squeeze as much profits out as possible.   

We agree on more than we agree.

I submit that if you are a historically disenfranchised community this little immigration gambit is disproportionately harmful to you.....and as they are already doing......these groups need to be loud and pervasive in objecting.

The Democrats are feeding their power and focusing on that over the well-being of its citizens....

[BuckSwope 654]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

We agree on more than we agree.

I submit that if you are a historically disenfranchised community this little immigration gambit is disproportionately harmful to you.....and as they are already doing......these groups need to be loud and pervasive in objecting.

The Democrats are feeding their power and focusing on that over the well-being of its citizens....

Of course.  It seems our main difference and my difference with the board at large is that I don't believe at the end of the day either party gives two crap to their objections.    IMO we as a country were comfortable with that level of encounters - 300K-400K/year.   That is nothing specific with Trump policies, as that was happening other other administrations.   That is also not near a "closed" border, as even those levels allowed us to backlog to years long waits for asylum claims and the issues that come with illegals.   So talk of closed borders is dumb from the start and to believe that any politician would do that is, IMO even dumber.   

 

[RLLD 4,143]

2 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Of course.  It seems our main difference and my difference with the board at large is that I don't believe at the end of the day either party gives two crap to their objections.    IMO we as a country were comfortable with that level of encounters - 300K-400K/year.   That is nothing specific with Trump policies, as that was happening other other administrations.   That is also not near a "closed" border, as even those levels allowed us to backlog to years long waits for asylum claims and the issues that come with illegals.   So talk of closed borders is dumb from the start and to believe that any politician would do that is, IMO even dumber.   

 

It is most evident in Chicago, and the AA community is clearly incensed....and declaring they will be "replaced" in one generation.....

[Horseman 2,367]

54 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Look, if Trump’s numbers roughly match Obama’s numbers, and the only thing that Biden has done is return policy back to what Obama was doing, then I don’t see how you can blame this current explosion on Biden. Logically if that was the case, then the numbers would have been large under Obama, small under Trump, and large again under Biden. But that is not the case. That’s why I conclude that this current explosion is not a result of Biden’s policies (though as President it is his responsibility whether or not he is to blame for it.) 

 

X

More idiot logic from the blowhard easily disproved.  I'll just use the most obvious:

Obama built more border wall than anybody.

Trump continued to build border wall.

Biden stopped the border wall construction and ordered the gates welded OPEN.

 

[Strike 5,206]

Democratic Senator admits what we all know, that the people they care about MOST are the illegals.  Not the American citizens they're elected to represent:

 

[Horseman 2,367]

Remember when the kids in cages photos turned out to have been taken under Obama and not Trump?   Yeah, Biden is just returning to Obama policy.