Minnesota Vikings

[nobody 2,101]

15 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

It's crazy to assume that Cousins is going to walk in and be something special. 

He'll be 36 years old in August, he's coming off of a major major injury, he's on a new team, new system, new players, new coaching staff, etc. And now he has to deal with the distraction of having the #8 overall pick breathing down his neck. 

I'm not so confident about this working out, it has the makings of a disaster for everyone. 

What happens when all the younger players naturally gravitate towards MP? The locker room could be a mess. 

I think it will motivate Cousins to have a good year just to spite the front office.

But as you alluded to, Penix is going to get all the reps in OTAs even though Cousins will be there playing catch on the sidelines, and if Penix looks great, that could divide the locker room.

I think Cousins is going to pull the Rodgers after they drafted Love and ball out which reminds me... I don't get why everyone is so frazzled by the Penix pick given the same people were frazzled by the Love pick and that worked out great for GB so far.

[Ray_T 601]

3 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

How old was he then? And was he coming off an Achilles? 

like I said, earlier....... if hes on the PUP when the pre season starts i'd be concerned, because he will be sitting at a time when he should be establishing a connection with his new WR's but Cousins game does not really depend on mobility.   and he looked super sharp before he went down.

so as long as he can throw a football, and shuffle in the pocket like he typically does, he should be fine.   

Rodgers, on the other hand does depend some on his mobility so in theory the injury should hurt him more.   That said Rodgers can still throw effectively in the pocket so I dont think it hurts him all that much either.   but I would rule out significant rushing yards from Rodgers.   Granted thats not as huge a part of his game as it once was anyhow.

anyhow, my point is an achilles isnt a death sentence for a QB like it is for a RB.   certainly its not a good thing but you need to look at the injury in the context of the skillset.   This injury hurts someone like Lamar Jackson far more than it hurts a guy like Cousins because their mobility and threat to run forces teams to do other things on defense that make them more effective as a QB.   

 

 

 

[LaChup 158]

During the seventh inning stretch of the Braves game, the fans sang, "Buy me some Penix and Cracker Jacks".

[kcBlitzkrieg 18]

It. Is. The. Same. System.  

Shanny / McVay / KOC = Zack Robinson system 

[weepaws 2,510]

Sounds like Cousins is healthy. 

[Ray_T 601]

11 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Sounds like Cousins is healthy. 

well, if Rodgers was almost healthy enough to play late in the year, I figured Cousins would likely be ready for camp provided there were no setbacks in his recovery

 

[nobody 2,101]

3 hours ago, weepaws said:

Sounds like Cousins is healthy. 

They drafted some competition and that Achilles started feeling better.

[weepaws 2,510]

21 minutes ago, nobody said:

They drafted some competition and that Achilles started feeling better.

It’s a good plan. 

[Ray_T 601]

27 minutes ago, nobody said:

They drafted some competition and that Achilles started feeling better.

its funny how that happens.   The injury is never nearly as bad once a potential replacement is on the roster.

[Maximum Overkill 781]

2 hours ago, nobody said:

They drafted some competition and that Achilles started feeling better.

He was a tackle dummy prior to the Achilles, can you imagine what he'll be like now? 

[JagFan 99]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:37 PM, Ray_T said:

well, if Rodgers was almost healthy enough to play late in the year, I figured Cousins would likely be ready for camp provided there were no setbacks in his recovery

 

Rodgers was just promoting Rodgers.  He’s a douche…look at me.  He was never coming back, just speaking out his butt to keep his face on the TV.  Can’t wait for him to lay an egg this year and blame it on his team like he did in GB.  Nothing to see here…move on.

[gcmmidwest 99]

3 hours ago, JagFan said:

Rodgers was just promoting Rodgers.  He’s a douche…look at me.  He was never coming back, just speaking out his butt to keep his face on the TV.  Can’t wait for him to lay an egg this year and blame it on his team like he did in GB.  Nothing to see here…move on.

Rodgers will make Mike Williams become a ff must start 

[weepaws 2,510]

I like M Williams with Rodgers at Qb. He has a terrific ADP.  

Williams needs to stay on the field.  

[Ray_T 601]

41 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I like M Williams with Rodgers at Qb. He has a terrific ADP.  

Williams needs to stay on the field.  

if he could stay on the field, he would likely still be a Charger.

[Showboat 146]

1 hour ago, gcmmidwest said:

Rodgers will make Mike Williams become a ff must start 

I don't think I'm buying this.  For most of his years in GB Rodgers fed his alpha and didn't really produce a must-start second receiver.  I suspect it will be the G.Wilson show, unless you think Williams somehow surpasses him.

[Gepetto 1,003]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:37 PM, Ray_T said:

well, if Rodgers was almost healthy enough to play late in the year, I figured Cousins would likely be ready for camp provided there were no setbacks in his recovery

 

He wasn't. That was a lie. He just got healthy enough recently.

[Gepetto 1,003]

I like that the Falcons draft Penix at 8. Good pick. The future is important too and sometimes comes sooner than expected.

[Maximum Overkill 781]

39 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

The future is important too and sometimes comes sooner than expected

When you just paid an 80 year old QB, the future is now. 

And Penix isn't exactly young or healthy. 

[Gepetto 1,003]

3 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

When you just paid an 80 year old QB, the future is now. 

And Penix isn't exactly young or healthy. 

Well Penix is healthy now, and he's young enough to play QB in the NFL for 10 plus years which is multiple contracts. 

[Maximum Overkill 781]

3 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Well Penix is healthy now, and he's young enough to play QB in the NFL for 10 plus years which is multiple contracts. 

Then why did they sign Cousins? 

Penix will be 27 before he's the starter. 

 

[Gepetto 1,003]

Just now, Maximum Overkill said:

Then why did they sign Cousins? 

Penix will be 27 before he's the starter. 

 

They signed Cousins before the draft, to start now. They drafted Penix to learn and start in future years. It's not really complicated. They feel they have a very good team made even better by adding Cousins and don't think they'll be in a position to draft a top QB in the upper 1st round in any of the next 4 years, so they secured their future this year having the 8th overall pick and Penix on the board.

[Ray_T 601]

4 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

They signed Cousins before the draft, to start now. They drafted Penix to learn and start in future years. It's not really complicated. They feel they have a very good team made even better by adding Cousins and don't think they'll be in a position to draft a top QB in the upper 1st round in any of the next 4 years, so they secured their future this year having the 8th overall pick and Penix on the board.

yeah,  the team as a whole is pretty solid.   I have to think the team will finish higher in the standings over the next year or two while Cousins starts.

so I am not expecting a better QB will fall to them in future years.    This might have been the deepest draft in a generation at QB.   most years only have 2-3 draftable QB in round 1 and one is usually a dud.    this year there were 6 first round QB.    so the better move is to take one and develop him behind a solid starter.   if his development comes along more quickly than expected you can pivot.    If cousins gets hurt (as is the risk with an older qb) then your guy plays early.

[weepaws 2,510]

If the Falcons really were sold on winning with Cousins you don’t go Qb.  But what has Cousins ever won as a Qb the nfl? 

[jrokh 570]

1 hour ago, Gepetto said:

They signed Cousins before the draft, to start now. They drafted Penix to learn and start in future years. It's not really complicated. They feel they have a very good team made even better by adding Cousins and don't think they'll be in a position to draft a top QB in the upper 1st round in any of the next 4 years, so they secured their future this year having the 8th overall pick and Penix on the board.

They gave Cousins 100 million guaranteed to win now. They would have a better chance of doing that if they invested the 8th overall pick on something else besides a guy who isn't going to play for at least 2 years. Bad move by them...

[Gepetto 1,003]

1 hour ago, jrokh said:

They gave Cousins 100 million guaranteed to win now. They would have a better chance of doing that if they invested the 8th overall pick on something else besides a guy who isn't going to play for at least 2 years. Bad move by them...

They tried to trade up to 10 with the Jets but weren't able to get the trade done. I think they wanted to take either Odunze or a top defensive player at 8 and Penix at 10 but in the end the person in the Falcons building making the decision was previously with the Saints in 2017 and wanted to take Mahomes even though Drew Brees was in his prime but the Chiefs traded up to 10 to select Mahomes right in front of them. He's very high on Penix and wasn't going to miss this year. Odunze already has a hamstring injury though.

 

Also, the same thing was said in 2020 about the Packers, should have helped Aaron Rodgers, but they selected Jordan Love and now have a present and future franchise QB. They took multiple receivers in the drafts following that year though.

[Ray_T 601]

1 hour ago, Gepetto said:

They tried to trade up to 10 with the Jets but weren't able to get the trade done. I think they wanted to take either Odunze or a top defensive player at 8 and Penix at 10 but in the end the person in the Falcons building making the decision was previously with the Saints in 2017 and wanted to take Mahomes even though Drew Brees was in his prime but the Chiefs traded up to 10 to select Mahomes right in front of them. He's very high on Penix and wasn't going to miss this year. Odunze already has a hamstring injury though.

 

Also, the same thing was said in 2020 about the Packers, should have helped Aaron Rodgers, but they selected Jordan Love and now have a present and future franchise QB. They took multiple receivers in the drafts following that year though.

I dont think the packers play worked out that bad.    This is the second time they ended up with a franchise QB after letting him sit behind their starter for a couple years.

this move looks no different.   

Maybe cousins is there to help them win, but maybe hes also there to mentor the kid.    I find it hard to believe that cousins takes them to the superbowl.  hes not won in the playoffs historically hes only been a top regular season QB.   

that said i dont know that there was a better option in free agency and they have some  young pieces on offense who are at a place in their careers where the team needs to evaluate whether they should sign keep them (and extend) or dump.   tough to figure that out when you have a bad QB like they had the last couple years or a rookie like they were planning on drafting this year knowing hes not ready to start out of the gate.

so I think they swallowed hard and signed cousins.    with a legit guy at QB and what I consider to be one of the top O lines in the league, you at least can properly evaluate the talent at the rest of the offensive positions (WR, TE, RB) so there is value here even if cousins doesnt get them past the first round of the playoffs.   

only time will tell if its the right solution.   

I do think there will be a breakout at WR or TE with cousins there (possibly both) and if that happens and they mentor the kid who gets to see up close how cousins does things I think there is a lot to be gained here.

if cousins performs well, his contract can be moved.   I know he has a full no trade, but if the team tells him that hes gonna be the backup, cousins would waive that no trade clause in a hurry if it gets him a chance to start elsewhere.    So I dont think the team is fully handcuffed here.   and Cousins, knowing his replacement is already on the team may actually perform better than he has in the past.

I fully admit this is a best case scenario.    I am not saying this will happen but its one possible outcome out of many.

[LaChup 158]

If it weren't a team from the south, I would be less worried. But anytime you have Cousins and Penix in the same room down there, you are asking for problems.

[nobody 2,101]

I don't get all the hand wringing.

Argument 1. If you thought Cousins was going to get hurt, why give him 100 million?  Well, if there is 50/50 chance he gets hurt, is it okay then?  What about a 30% chance?  What about 25?  Then is it okay to invest in the backup?  It's not a binary thing.  It's okay to hedge a bet at the most important position on your team.

Argument 2. It'll hurt cousins feelings.  So because the guy that always looks out for himself and takes the max he can get, and only signed a 4 year deal with you because he knows it's the last money grab he'll get might not like some competition since it might have an effect on his paychecks, the Falcons aren't allowed to take a guy they view as a franchise QB?  

Argument 3. They should've drafted whomever I think they should've drafted because that'll help them win now.  A defensive tackle or cornerback isn't making them a super bowl contender.  Those guys might move the needle a half point if they turn into studs.  QBs are worth 4,5,6, maybe 7 points a game.  It's okay to make sure that position is secure.

And for the record, I'm not sold on Penix.  I think his injury history is too much of an impediment, but if they graded the guy that highly, they can take him.  It's not that big of a deal.

[weepaws 2,510]

Makes for good conversation, anything wrong with that? 

[Maximum Overkill 781]

10 hours ago, Gepetto said:

so they secured their future this year having the 8th overall pick and Penix on the board.

Meanwhile in 4 years Bijan is off a rookie deal (gone), Drake London will be off a rookie deal, older & gone, Kyle Pitts will still suck but probably be gone, etc. 

The window is now. They could of had Odunze or Bowers who would of helped immediately and long term. 

The Penix pick is one of the worst I've ever seen, possibly the worst. 

[weepaws 2,510]

4 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Meanwhile in 4 years Bijan is off a rookie deal (gone), Drake London will be off a rookie deal, older & gone, Kyle Pitts will still suck but probably be gone, etc. 

The window is now. They could of had Odunze or Bowers who would of helped immediately and long term. 

The Penix pick is one of the worst I've ever seen, possibly the worst. 

Odunze would have made that a scary offense for def to deal with.  

[jrokh 570]

7 hours ago, nobody said:

A defensive tackle or cornerback isn't making them a super bowl contender. 

Then they shouldn't have given Cousins 100 million guaranteed. But they did because they think he will make them contenders. If that is the case the best defensive prospect in the draft or a Rome Odunze, or Fashanu or whoever will help them exponentially more than a guy holding a clipboard. HTH...

[Maximum Overkill 781]

8 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Then they shouldn't have given Cousins 100 million guaranteed. But they did because they think he will make them contenders. If that is the case the best defensive prospect in the draft or a Rome Odunze, or Fashanu or whoever will help them exponentially more than a guy holding a clipboard. HTH...

That's the point exactly. If this was the plan then why didn't they just plan on drafting Penix or McCarthy from day 1 instead of signing Cousins to a ridiculous contract? They could of gotten Fields for NOTHING as Cousins backup. 

Having the 8th overall pick, who's already 24 years old rot on the bench for 3-4 years is insane! And even then nobody knows if Penix can play. 

Whoever made that pick should be fired. 

[nobody 2,101]

Quarterback is the most important part of the team by an exponential margin.  Getting that position right is the most important thing any team should do even if it means you have to take two swings.

The whole paying cousins thing is goofy.  That's the market rate for a QB.  He moved the needle more than Penix would and is orders of magnitude better than Ridder, but saying you can't hedge that bet is just goofy.  Like when I car insurance no one is saying, "well why are you driving if you think you're going to get in an accident?"

[Maximum Overkill 781]

4 minutes ago, nobody said:

Quarterback is the most important part of the team by an exponential margin.  Getting that position right is the most important thing any team should do even if it means you have to take two swings.

The whole paying cousins thing is goofy.  That's the market rate for a QB.  He moved the needle more than Penix would and is orders of magnitude better than Ridder, but saying you can't hedge that bet is just goofy.  Like when I car insurance no one is saying, "well why are you driving if you think you're going to get in an accident?"

They could of gotten Justin Fields for free, traded back and still gotten Penix or McCarthy, etc. 

They didn't need to waste #8 overall on Penix, it's dumb. 

[nobody 2,101]

So if they think Penix is awesome, they should pass on him because draft pundits don't think he's good enough for the 8th pick.  

[Ray_T 601]

10 hours ago, nobody said:

I don't get all the hand wringing.

Argument 1. If you thought Cousins was going to get hurt, why give him 100 million?  Well, if there is 50/50 chance he gets hurt, is it okay then?  What about a 30% chance?  What about 25?  Then is it okay to invest in the backup?  It's not a binary thing.  It's okay to hedge a bet at the most important position on your team.

Argument 2. It'll hurt cousins feelings.  So because the guy that always looks out for himself and takes the max he can get, and only signed a 4 year deal with you because he knows it's the last money grab he'll get might not like some competition since it might have an effect on his paychecks, the Falcons aren't allowed to take a guy they view as a franchise QB?  

Argument 3. They should've drafted whomever I think they should've drafted because that'll help them win now.  A defensive tackle or cornerback isn't making them a super bowl contender.  Those guys might move the needle a half point if they turn into studs.  QBs are worth 4,5,6, maybe 7 points a game.  It's okay to make sure that position is secure.

And for the record, I'm not sold on Penix.  I think his injury history is too much of an impediment, but if they graded the guy that highly, they can take him.  It's not that big of a deal.

with regards to argument 1)  Cousins has actually been durable over the course of his career.    I personally never had any thought that hed get hurt.   There is a higher risk of injury in the first year back from a major surgery on the knee.  I dont know what the stats are on an Achilles.   The only question I have is whether hes ready to play on day 1 of camp.   if he appears on the PUP list I'll have my answer but I suspect he will be fine there.

with respect to argument 2-  I dont care if it hurts his feelings.   Lots of players put up their best statistical seasons of their careers when there is a potential replacement sitting on the bench.    and I agree fully with your point here.

with argument 3-  I dont know that this team was ready to win now.    they need to take a step or two first.   Actually making the playoffs being the first step and I think Cousins likely gets them there.   but its also about developing and evaluating the young talent on the offense as well

I'm also not sold on Penix but I think he has a chance to be a good pro.   he needs to work on some footwork and mechanics, so sitting behind a proven QB who at least can get them to the playoffs isnt a bad thing.

we can debate how long it will be before the guy will play but in reality we dont know.   but the team can afford to wait when they have Cousins under contract.    while I dont love the move, I also dont hate it.     but I do understand it.   Lots of us are speculating how this will go, but likely only those behind the scenes truly know what the deal is.

[weepaws 2,510]

33 minutes ago, nobody said:

So if they think Penix is awesome, they should pass on him because draft pundits don't think he's good enough for the 8th pick.  

Nope, they should draft him like they did, even if it’s the wrong move if they wanted to have a win now approach to the upcoming season with Cousins.  

[Maximum Overkill 781]

1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

he needs to work on some footwork and mechanics, so sitting behind a proven QB who at least can get them to the playoffs isnt a bad thing.

Justin Fields could of done that, and it would of only cost a 6th round pick. 

I hear your argument but it's a ridiculous pick no matter how you spin it. 

[Ray_T 601]

6 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Justin Fields could of done that, and it would of only cost a 6th round pick. 

I hear your argument but it's a ridiculous pick no matter how you spin it. 

If you think Cousins will be productive for all 4 years of his contract, then yes, you might be right.

personally I think Cousins will be productive for 2 (maybe 3) years and then his production likely falls off a cliff.  There is an out in the contract for the team after 2026 I think.    This is the succession plan.   I dont mind it.   I'm sure Cousins hates it but I dont care about his feelings about it.

I only want him to produce when hes on my fantasy team.