“I Can’t Breathe” Yet another black man dies at the hands of police

[TimHauck 1,846]

4 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Black and gunned down, yes, but gunned down for being black, that seems an  unsupported supposiiton.  Maybe he was gunned down for being male.  Maybe he was gunned down for surprising the officer and race and/or sex had nothing to do with it.

Also keep in mind this was his original claim, no mention of it being “because” of being black

On 4/27/2024 at 12:37 PM, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

 

I have yet to see a upstanding black man be killed by cops

 

 

[Engorgeous George 1,235]

4 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I mean, are you guys looking for an example where the murdering officer admitted they only killed them because they were black?

I am looking for something more than completely unsupported supposition based upon the outcome of a white officer killing a black suspect, yes.  Would it have to be an admission by the officer, a very unlikely scenario, no it would not, but I would want something more than just the outcome.  Maybe some history of animus against blacks.  Maybe some racially charged statement just prior to the shooting or suffocation, maybe membership in a racially charged organization, something. 

[Nomad99 441]

You could spend a month watching YouTube videos of people that resist arrest......they all have one thing in common......the minute the cuffs are closing,  they all start screaming I CAN’T BREATHE, I HAVE PTSD, I JUST HAD BACK SURGERY,  I'M PREGNANT, I HAVE A BAD BACK.....all after fighting like a demon prior to that. Obviously if it looks like they are in legitimate distress,  you need to act accordingly but 95% is bullchit. 

[TimHauck 1,846]

9 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I am looking for something more than completely unsupported supposition based upon the outcome of a white officer killing a black suspect, yes.  Would it have to be an admission by the officer, a very unlikely scenario, no it would not, but I would want something more than just the outcome.  Maybe some history of animus against blacks.  Maybe some racially charged statement just prior to the shooting or suffocation, maybe membership in a racially charged organization, something. 

Based on your earlier statement, would you agree that Botham Jean qualifies as an “upstanding black man killed by cops”?

 

21 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Black and gunned down, yes

 

On 4/27/2024 at 12:37 PM, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

 

I have yet to see a upstanding black man be killed by cops

 

 

[Engorgeous George 1,235]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Based on your earlier statement, would you agree that Botham Jean qualifies as an “upstanding black man killed by cops”?

 

 

 

To the best of my recollection of the facts of the case I would agree with that characterization of Mr. Jean, yes.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,819]

If police walked in on a man showering with a kid would they be justified in shooting him? 

[Fireballer 2,410]

10 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Based on your earlier statement, would you agree that Botham Jean qualifies as an “upstanding black man killed by cops”?

 

 

 

Although, she was just an armed citizen at the time, and not in law enforcement capacity, Jean is probably the best example in recent memory that fits what Tim was looking for. Its hard to be less threatening than a dude chillin in his own crib.  

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

47 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Although, she was just an armed citizen at the time, and not in law enforcement capacity, Jean is probably the best example in recent memory that fits what Tim was looking for. Its hard to be less threatening than a dude chillin in his own crib.  

I’m not looking for anything. Personally I wish the police were as colorblind as most of you guys seem to think they are. 

[Fireballer 2,410]

32 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m not looking for anything. Personally I wish the police were as colorblind as most of you guys seem to think they are. 

I was referring to Tim Hauk.  Sorry for confusion.  But as a response to you, there are cops that treat people sh!tty.  People of all races take that brunt, and it’s wrong.  I’ve seen a ton of aggressive policing towards whites.  Police encounters are extremely nuanced.  That, coupled with ignorant people who don’t know what cops are actually allowed to do, produces most of these escalations. Tim, why do you think black women aren’t assaulted or killed by cops at the rate that black men are?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,622]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

Also keep in mind this was his original claim, no mention of it being “because” of being black

 

An off duty cop walking into what she thought was her apartment and shooting a guy never had to do with him being black 

now her story is lame and all and I’d bet there was more to it. 
 

but again this isn’t the situation where a black dude gets pulled over by a cop, follows instructions and behaves. Doesn’t resist and gets shot.  Cause those stories don’t exist. 

[TimHauck 1,846]

14 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

An off duty cop walking into what she thought was her apartment and shooting a guy never had to do with him being black 

now her story is lame and all and I’d bet there was more to it. 

More to it, like race possibly?  It’s certainly a fair question to ask that if Jean was white does she still shoot him?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,622]

3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

More to it, like race possibly?  It’s certainly a fair question to ask that if Jean was white does she still shoot him?

Who knows. I’d expect any woman with a firearm to shoot any guy in her apartment. This was a civilian killing however. 

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

21 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

I was referring to Tim Hauk.  Sorry for confusion.  But as a response to you, there are cops that treat people sh!tty.  People of all races take that brunt, and it’s wrong.  I’ve seen a ton of aggressive policing towards whites.  Police encounters are extremely nuanced.  That, coupled with ignorant people who don’t know what cops are actually allowed to do, produces most of these escalations. Tim, why do you think black women aren’t assaulted or killed by cops at the rate that black men are?

Obviously because women don’t commit crimes in the same numbers men do. Your point seems to be that these men are committing crimes. I’ve never argued otherwise. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,151]

On 4/26/2024 at 3:45 PM, BudBro said:

Dems already have their summer riot plan moving along with the protests by the jew haters.  Oddly, both the terrorist sympathizers and Jewish people vote Democrat. 

Amazing, isn't it?

[Fireballer 2,410]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Obviously because women don’t commit crimes in the same numbers men do. Your point seems to be that these men are committing crimes. I’ve never argued otherwise. 

Ok, so we’re getting somewhere.  Your main concern is that you see legitimate arrestees treated disparately based on race only.  Is this correct? 

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

16 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Ok, so we’re getting somewhere.  Your main concern is that you see legitimate arrestees treated disparately based on race only.  Is this correct? 

Not quite. It’s part of a bigger pattern in which innocent black people who have committed no crime are also stopped and harassed by police in percentages much larger than the general population. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,151]

On 4/27/2024 at 1:46 PM, The Real timschochet said:

No and it’s completely irrelevant. Bad guys, both black and white, kill police. That’s a given. Evil people do evil things. Police are not evil and we should hold them to a completely different standard. 

... and we do hold them to a higher standard.

The problem is though, that the party you devote your loyalty to, always wants to lower the standards. 

Example #1: Black people can't pass the BAR exam... Liberals response: Let's lower the score so they can pass.  The result, more bad lawyers... most are white, because that's mostly who's in law school.  Outcome: More white people are becoming lawyers than black.  Liberal backlash: White people are racist... too many white lawyers.

Example #2: Black people struggle with grammar... Liberals response: Let's lower the standards for grammar so that they can pass.  The result, more people with bad grammar... most are white, because that's mostly who's benefitting because of the larger percentage of white people in college.  Outcome: More while people getting degrees than black.  Liberal backlash: White people are racist... too many white people with college degrees.

Example #3: Black people (and women), can't become cops because the standards are too high... so Democrats reduce the standards so that more can pass the tests.  The result, more bad cops.... most are white, because that's mostly who's enrolling in the police academies.  Outcome: More bad white cops on the streets.  Liberal backlash: White people are racist... too many white cops killing black people.

MAYBE... just MAYBE, we stop lowering standards to allow black to qualify for things that will be more beneficial to white people, and instead, focus on the black communities putting more emphasis on education at the lower levels.  Instead of pizzing away money on gender studies, CRT, climate change, and other "wah wah wah, we need....[crap that doesn't matter], we invest that on the education system at the lower levels?  How about we focus on family units?  How about we (Democrats), stop encouraging single-income for welfare and hence encouraging single parent households... mostly affecting black families?  How about we stop the "Defund the Police" crap when most black communities are victims of violent crimes, and thus encouraging younger black kids to dislike cops?  How about we stop with the identity politics and treating people the same, instead of making a victimhood classification of people?

Can't do that though, because that would require people who are beholden to the Democrat party to vote Republican... so, let's just keep complaining about systemic racism (dismissing the fact that the mass majority of instances where this claim happens, comes from Democrat strong holds).

[TimHauck 1,846]

35 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Who knows. I’d expect any woman with a firearm to shoot any guy in her apartment. This was a civilian killing however. 

Any guy that’s just sitting there eating ice cream?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,819]

If any sort of physical standards necessary to do the job of police officer were applied, especially in large departments, I would bet about 10 pct of the women and maybe 50 pct of the men would be eligible to even start the police academy. The NYPD is sad for me to look at now. Many third world pygmies that can’t walk up three flights of stairs and have a tenuous grasp of the English language. Nice work libtards. 

[Fireballer 2,410]

15 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not quite. It’s part of a bigger pattern in which innocent black people who have committed no crime are also stopped and harassed by police in percentages much larger than the general population. 

 What constitutes harassment of innocent black people? 

[TBayXXXVII 2,151]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:24 AM, Hardcore troubadour said:

Ever since the liberals have put themselves in black peoples business things have not improved for black people. Schools are worse than ever, committing crimes at a higher rate, also being victimized at a higher rate. Cities are filthy and in disrepair.  More fatherless children.  It’s almost as if they want them to be at odds with the police. This way the police catch the blame, not the architects. 

Weird how that has happened.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,622]

21 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Any guy that’s just sitting there eating ice cream?

Yes 

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

10 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

 What constitutes harassment of innocent black people? 

Not even sure where to start. Driving in a wealthy neighborhood? Followed by security in department stores? Dragged away by police because there was a report of a robbery in the area? (This last one I personally witnessed a few years back- a black friend of mine invited me to a picnic with his family at Echo Park in Los Angeles and a couple cops came up and grabbed him and handcuffed him because he matched the description of an armed robber- the description was “black man”.) 

These are abuses that black people have to deal with on a daily basis. 

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

30 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

... and we do hold them to a higher standard.

The problem is though, that the party you devote your loyalty to, always wants to lower the standards. 

Example #1: Black people can't pass the BAR exam... Liberals response: Let's lower the score so they can pass.  The result, more bad lawyers... most are white, because that's mostly who's in law school.  Outcome: More white people are becoming lawyers than black.  Liberal backlash: White people are racist... too many white lawyers.

Example #2: Black people struggle with grammar... Liberals response: Let's lower the standards for grammar so that they can pass.  The result, more people with bad grammar... most are white, because that's mostly who's benefitting because of the larger percentage of white people in college.  Outcome: More while people getting degrees than black.  Liberal backlash: White people are racist... too many white people with college degrees.

Example #3: Black people (and women), can't become cops because the standards are too high... so Democrats reduce the standards so that more can pass the tests.  The result, more bad cops.... most are white, because that's mostly who's enrolling in the police academies.  Outcome: More bad white cops on the streets.  Liberal backlash: White people are racist... too many white cops killing black people.

MAYBE... just MAYBE, we stop lowering standards to allow black to qualify for things that will be more beneficial to white people, and instead, focus on the black communities putting more emphasis on education at the lower levels.  Instead of pizzing away money on gender studies, CRT, climate change, and other "wah wah wah, we need....[crap that doesn't matter], we invest that on the education system at the lower levels?  How about we focus on family units?  How about we (Democrats), stop encouraging single-income for welfare and hence encouraging single parent households... mostly affecting black families?  How about we stop the "Defund the Police" crap when most black communities are victims of violent crimes, and thus encouraging younger black kids to dislike cops?  How about we stop with the identity politics and treating people the same, instead of making a victimhood classification of people?

Can't do that though, because that would require people who are beholden to the Democrat party to vote Republican... so, let's just keep complaining about systemic racism (dismissing the fact that the mass majority of instances where this claim happens, comes from Democrat strong holds).

I am opposed to all of the examples you listed. They’re really not relevant to this discussion, however. 

[TimHauck 1,846]

Disagree @RaiderHaters Revenge.  Keep in mind she was convicted of murder…

[Fireballer 2,410]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not even sure where to start. Driving in a wealthy neighborhood? Followed by security in department stores? Dragged away by police because there was a report of a robbery in the area? (This last one I personally witnessed a few years back- a black friend of mine invited me to a picnic with his family at Echo Park in Los Angeles and a couple cops came up and grabbed him and handcuffed him because he matched the description of an armed robber- the description was “black man”.) 

These are abuses that black people have to deal with on a daily basis. 

Ok.  Let’s break each one down, addressing what appears to be the most egregious.  What did the police say to your friend when they approached him?  And define “dragged away”.  Where did they take him and for how long? 

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

4 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Ok.  Let’s break each one down, addressing what appears to be the most egregious.  What did the police say to your friend when they approached him?  And define “dragged away”.  Where did they take him and for how long? 

At first they didn’t say anything. They grabbed him and handcuffed him in front of his kids and put him in a police car. He didn’t struggle though he did keep asking “what’s going on?” His wife was screaming.
Later on I learned they held him for several hours before releasing him. This treatment, in parts of Los Angeles, is not unusual. 

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

Also with regard to police arresting minorities and dragging them away: keep in mind that we have a major Presidential candidate who is publicly calling for the immediate arrest and deportation of millions of undocumented immigrants, and at the same time wants to give police full immunity from their actions. Try to consider what the results of these two proposals will be should they ever come to pass. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,151]

46 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I am opposed to all of the examples you listed. They’re really not relevant to this discussion, however. 

I literally quoted your post that you said that cops should be held to a higher standard... I said they are.  I then supported that with examples of why you seem to have an issue of the standards, pointing out that Democrats are continually lowering standards.

So, you can claim you want accountability, maybe you should want accountability for why those standards exist in the first place.  You fix that problem, you'll find that the results we're seeing drop drastically.

[Strike 4,042]

58 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not even sure where to start. Driving in a wealthy neighborhood? Followed by security in department stores? Dragged away by police because there was a report of a robbery in the area? (This last one I personally witnessed a few years back- a black friend of mine invited me to a picnic with his family at Echo Park in Los Angeles and a couple cops came up and grabbed him and handcuffed him because he matched the description of an armed robber- the description was “black man”.) 

These are abuses that black people have to deal with on a daily basis. 

You bringing up that old story again?????  ROFLMAO

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,608]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

You bringing up that old story again?????  ROFLMAO

Tim still thinks it's the 1950's.  What he's describing isn't even an issue anymore.  But people like him NEED it to be an issue because, well, y'know, virtues and all that.  Plus the grift on this is very lucrative.  Can't make money if things are better, so just keep bringing up old and tired examples as if they are still happening.

You will find that things - as we see now - will NEVER get better.  In fact, most people on the left think things are worse today then they were 50, 100 and 150 years ago or more. 

[Fireballer 2,410]

10 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

At first they didn’t say anything. They grabbed him and handcuffed him in front of his kids and put him in a police car. He didn’t struggle though he did keep asking “what’s going on?” His wife was screaming.
Later on I learned they held him for several hours before releasing him. This treatment, in parts of Los Angeles, is not unusual. 

So they literally walked up, said nothing, dragged him to a police car, held him for several hours, and just eventually told him that a black man committed a robbery and that they detained him because he was black?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,608]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

So they literally walked up, said nothing, dragged him to a police car, held him for several hours, and just eventually told him that a black man committed a robbery and that they detained him because he was black?

This is weird.  I was told that anecdotes DON'T count by posters on the left, but here we are counting them when it's supposedly happening to someone on their side.

Is it possible to get a clarification on the Anecdotes Rule again?

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

54 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

So they literally walked up, said nothing, dragged him to a police car, held him for several hours, and just eventually told him that a black man committed a robbery and that they detained him because he was black?

Yes. That is exactly what happened. 

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

53 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

This is weird.  I was told that anecdotes DON'T count by posters on the left, but here we are counting them when it's supposedly happening to someone on their side.

Is it possible to get a clarification on the Anecdotes Rule again?

Anecdotes don’t matter in terms of statistics. But he asked me to define unfair treatment at the hands of police so I offered an example that I witnessed. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,608]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yes. That is exactly what happened. 

Were you there?

Update: Never mind.  I see you responded in the previous post.

[supermike80 1,314]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not even sure where to start. Driving in a wealthy neighborhood? Followed by security in department stores? Dragged away by police because there was a report of a robbery in the area? (This last one I personally witnessed a few years back- a black friend of mine invited me to a picnic with his family at Echo Park in Los Angeles and a couple cops came up and grabbed him and handcuffed him because he matched the description of an armed robber- the description was “black man”.) 

These are abuses that black people have to deal with on a daily basis. 

Guys, just so you remember...Tim lies...a lot...so this "story" is almost certainly a lie and this never happened.

[The Real timschochet 3,084]

57 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Guys, just so you remember...Tim lies...a lot...so this "story" is almost certainly a lie and this never happened.

Well that’s one way of dismissing it. Examples of me lying? 

[Engorgeous George 1,235]

7 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

At first they didn’t say anything. They grabbed him and handcuffed him in front of his kids and put him in a police car. He didn’t struggle though he did keep asking “what’s going on?” His wife was screaming.
Later on I learned they held him for several hours before releasing him. This treatment, in parts of Los Angeles, is not unusual. 

Sounds like there is  lucrative practice to be had in Los Angeles suing LAPD.

[Engorgeous George 1,235]

Its been 32 years now since Daryl Gates was Chief in L.A.  Time to put away the narrative from 3 decades ago.  If matters are as Tim alleges they are the LAPD would be under several federal consent degrees right now.

 

To my memory it has been around 15 years since they last were under a consent decree, one which lasted a dozen years.