Caitlin Clark debut

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

6 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

yeah, i'm not knocking your opinion or saying it's wrong.  I have no clue.  Maybe she is a female steve nash.  I was just pointing out to Hawkeye that it was your guess and more anecdotal than anything. 

Yeah, I was just throwing that out there as, I saw like 3 college games, and that's what it looked like to me.  I have absolutely no idea what her game/role in the WNBA is.  That's way I made sure to say I haven't seen any games, nor intend to, and "my guess", as you rightfully pointed out.  I'm certainly not claiming to be any officianafo. 

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

yeah, i'm not knocking your opinion or saying it's wrong.  I have no clue.  Maybe she is a female steve nash.  I was just pointing out to Hawkeye that it was your guess and more anecdotal than anything. 

I think his guess isn't far off though.  She's a fantastic passer.  Her basketball IQ is high and it amazes me how well she sees the floor.  Some of the passes she makes are ridiculous.  The problem is that she takes a lot of risks with her passing which leads to a lot of turnovers.  Some of them are drops by teammates but a lot are ones where she tries throwing it behind her back or something like that.

[Gepetto 1,291]

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/caitlin-clark-receives-most-votes-wnba-all-star-game-teammates-angel-reese

Caitlin Clark receives most votes for WNBA All-Star Game, will be teammates with Angel Reese

Clark is averaging 16.2 points and 6.9 assists per game

The fever (no pun intended) is still running sky-high for Caitlin Clark.

The WNBA rookie phenom was not only named an All-Star, but she received the most votes among all players.

Clark was the only player to crack 700,000 votes (by 735), while her Indiana Fever teammate Aaliyah Boston ranked second with 618,680.

Las Vegas Aces superstar A'ja Wilson, who had received the most votes in the first round, was third with 607,300.

Entering Tuesday, Clark was averaging 16.2 points and 6.9 assists per game, both of which rank tops among rookies. Among all players, she ranks third in assists per game and 16th in points per contest.

[cyclone24 1,912]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's 1.27 right now.  Still more assists than turnovers.

You understand that’s a terrible ratio right? A good guard has somewhere at bare bare minimum 2:1…should be closer to 3:1

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Her basketball IQ is high and it amazes me how well she sees the floor.

This is what I saw in the couple college games of hers that I watched... to wit, lead to "my guess".

@WhiteWonder

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

This is what I saw in the couple college games of hers that I watched... to wit, lead to "my guess".

@WhiteWonder

and maybe it is a fair thing to say.  When I said there isn't any evidence to support it, I'm thinking more along the lines of I have not heard any basketball people making that comparison... not that I go out of my way to look for WNBA pundits but I have sports talk on enough and see enough talking heads discussing Clark and the WNBA this year.   (which is good for their sport if it keeps up)

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

1 minute ago, cyclone24 said:

You understand that’s a terrible ratio right? A good guard has somewhere at bare bare minimum 2:1…should be closer to 3:1

I didn't say it was good, just that it's better than 1:1.  She should have about 2 fewer turnovers per game and 2 more assists per game because of her teammates.  That would put her closer to 2.5.  That's not how works though.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

Just now, WhiteWonder said:

which is good for their sport if it keeps up

The amount of people talking about the WNBA that have never done before is almost alarming.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

and maybe it is a fair thing to say.  When I said there isn't any evidence to support it, I'm thinking more along the lines of I have not heard any basketball people making that comparison... not that I go out of my way to look for WNBA pundits but I have sports talk on enough and see enough talking heads discussing Clark and the WNBA this year.   (which is good for their sport if it keeps up)

I definitely haven't either.  The comparisons I hear are of Steph Curry.  Is he a Point or 2?  I don't even know.

[WhiteWonder 2,681]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

The amount of people talking about the WNBA that have never done before is almost alarming.  

i don't consider it alarming. I consider it where it should be, given this once in a lifetime opportunity. If not now, when? They got their great white hope finally going pro.

I don't wish them failure but I don't see it being sustainable. I almost think the "beef" between Clark and Reese is just as important.... and I think the league needs about 10 more Clarks and Reeses to sustain any type of financial success. Or to even become profitable. 

[cyclone24 1,912]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The amount of people talking about the WNBA that have never done before is almost alarming.  

I really compare this to if all of a sudden ESPN started covering cricket all the time. Didn’t matter which teams and they just constantly covered it and said how great it was. I guaran-freaking-tee you and I would bet any amount of money. You would have people if they had an American to follow Would just say oh my God this is amazing. Look how great these cricket players are not having any idea what they’re watching, not having any idea that it’s a bad product but if it gets shoved down peoples throat enough and people don’t know any different? They think it’s great.  
 

This is the WNBA in 2024. 

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

i don't consider it alarming. I consider it where it should be, given this once in a lifetime opportunity. If not now, when? They got their great white hope finally going pro.

I don't wish them failure but I don't see it being sustainable. I almost think the "beef" between Clark and Reese is just as important.... and I think the league needs about 10 more Clarks and Reeses to sustain any type of financial success. Or to even become profitable. 

Rivalries help drive sports.  Clark and Reese were the best thing to happen to the WNBA.

[cyclone24 1,912]

2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

i don't consider it alarming. I consider it where it should be, given this once in a lifetime opportunity. If not now, when? They got their great white hope finally going pro.

I don't wish them failure but I don't see it being sustainable. I almost think the "beef" between Clark and Reese is just as important.... and I think the league needs about 10 more Clarks and Reeses to sustain any type of financial success. Or to even become profitable. 

Well, you’re hitting on something. I think the NBA struggles with and that’s rivalries. Personal and team. They just don’t exist much anymore. It definitely is a component of its interest for sure.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

Just now, cyclone24 said:

I really compare this to if all of a sudden ESPN started covering cricket all the time. Didn’t matter which teams and they just constantly covered it and said how great it was. I guaran-freaking-tee you and I would bet any amount of money. You would have people if they had an American to follow Would just say oh my God this is amazing. Look how great these cricket players are not having any idea what they’re watching, not having any idea that it’s a bad product but if it gets shoved down peoples throat enough and people don’t know any different? They think it’s great.  
 

This is the WNBA in 2024. 

Meh.  Maybe.  Haven't they tried with other sports?  Has soccer ever been able to do it?

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

1 minute ago, cyclone24 said:

Well, you’re hitting on something. I think the NBA struggles with and that’s rivalries. Personal and team. They just don’t exist much anymore. It definitely is a component of its interest for sure.

I think that's what helps make college sports so great.  Traditions and rivalries. 

[MLCKAA 546]

2 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

She’s not now no because not a chance they would let her play the way she did at Iowa, where there were games she shot as many times as her entire team combined.
 

She is a bit of a chucker I mean, you can’t say wow look at all these points and then you show her percent is not good and not get to a place where you say yeah she needs a lot of shots to get there. Her shooting % is not much different than it was in college. It’s nothing that exceptional but people act like it’s Steph Curry out there or something.

They might let play that way.  The coach said in an interview a few days ago that she wants Clark to average 15 attempts per game.

I’m not defending her percentage.  It’s not respectable.

[MLCKAA 546]

50 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Well, you’re hitting on something. I think the NBA struggles with and that’s rivalries. Personal and team. They just don’t exist much anymore. It definitely is a component of its interest for sure.

A whole handful of teams openly hate the Pacers, but that’s more because they’re lazy and hate the Pacers up-tempo offense.

[posty 2,613]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Is it 4 & 4 or the best 8 teams overall?  Looks like the West has a pretty balanced conference where the East is 2 great teams and 4 crappy teams.

Top 8 overall...  

[TimHauck 2,627]

14 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

I really compare this to if all of a sudden ESPN started covering cricket all the time. Didn’t matter which teams and they just constantly covered it and said how great it was. I guaran-freaking-tee you and I would bet any amount of money. You would have people if they had an American to follow Would just say oh my God this is amazing. Look how great these cricket players are not having any idea what they’re watching, not having any idea that it’s a bad product but if it gets shoved down peoples throat enough and people don’t know any different? They think it’s great.  
 

This is the WNBA in 2024. 

People barely watch ESPN anymore though.  And people aren’t really interested in the WNBA anyway, they are interested in Caitlin Clark.  That caused some genuine interest, and then the “controversies” around her have further increased it.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,956]

Of course it’s racism. It’s plain as day. There are morons arguing it isn’t? 

[posty 2,613]

One for the books in her last game before the break, though they did lose to the worst team in the league...

24 points and a WNBA record 19 assists...  Becoming the second player in league history with at least 20 points and 15 assists in a game...

Her scoring or assisting on 66 points also is a WNBA record (broke the record of 65)...  Also, 26 games into the season (14 games left), Clark has scored or assisted on 915 points, a rookie single-season record. Her 213 assists on the season are the second most by a rookie in league history and are approaching Ticha Penicheiro's record of 225.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

1 hour ago, posty said:

One for the books in her last game before the break, though they did lose to the worst team in the league...

24 points and a WNBA record 19 assists...  Becoming the second player in league history with at least 20 points and 15 assists in a game...

Her scoring or assisting on 66 points also is a WNBA record (broke the record of 65)...  Also, 26 games into the season (14 games left), Clark has scored or assisted on 915 points, a rookie single-season record. Her 213 assists on the season are the second most by a rookie in league history and are approaching Ticha Penicheiro's record of 225.

Clark and Boston are awesome together.  They need to get some other shooters on the team badly.  Clark would have had 30 assists if her teammate hit some of those open shots.  She's going to have to start taking more shots herself soon.

[posty 2,613]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Clark and Boston are awesome together. 

This is definitely true...  They are beginning to click for sure...

And you are correct, they do need at least one more pure shooter...

[posty 2,613]

Good first game after the Olympics…

29 points, 10 assists, and 5 rebounds in the Fever’s 98-89 win…

[MLCKAA 546]

5 hours ago, posty said:

Good first game after the Olympics…

29 points, 10 assists, and 5 rebounds in the Fever’s 98-89 win…

I’ll be 3rd row Sunday.

[Maximum Overkill 1,741]

Still with this F'ing thread? 

[posty 2,613]

Now the single-season record holder for most assists in a season y a rookie accomplished in her 28th game…. The record was set in a 30 game season…

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/40910369/fever-caitlin-clark-breaks-wnba-single-season-rookie-record-assists-win-storm

[MLCKAA 546]

5 minutes ago, posty said:

Now the single-season record holder for most assists in a season y a rookie accomplished in her 28th game…. The record was set in a 30 game season…

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/40910369/fever-caitlin-clark-breaks-wnba-single-season-rookie-record-assists-win-storm

Just for fun, we tallied the blown assists in the paint tonight.  If her teammates converted the bunnies, she’d have totaled 15 tonight.

And she took a physical beating tonight, too.

[posty 2,613]

31 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

Just for fun, we tallied the blown assists in the paint tonight.  If her teammates converted the bunnies, she’d have totaled 15 tonight.

And she took a physical beating tonight, too.

Thanks for the info…. Yeah her teammates have gotten better at catching and making shots but still missing to much…

[posty 2,613]

Another record:

Became the fastest player in WNBA history to reach 500 points and 200 assists, doing so in 29 games. 

[posty 2,613]

Another record for Caitlin…

Clark set a WNBA rookie record for 3-pointers, passing Rhyne Howard’s 85 in 2022, with a triple in the first quarter. Clark added two more 3-pointers, giving her 88 on the season.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

27 minutes ago, posty said:

Another record for Caitlin…

Clark set a WNBA rookie record for 3-pointers, passing Rhyne Howard’s 85 in 2022, with a triple in the first quarter. Clark added two more 3-pointers, giving her 88 on the season.

They also beat the 2nd best team in the league tonight. 

[MLCKAA 546]

11 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

They also beat the 2nd best team in the league tonight. 

And they did it ugly, which is a good sign with the postseason approaching.  7-3 in the last 10.

I freely admit that I am only following because of Clark.  I coached girls basketball with girls ranging from 3-7th grade so I have an affinity for it, but I never followed WNBA.

But, it’s pretty cool having your local team have this phenom who is the focal point of the whole league.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

Just now, MLCKAA said:

And they did it ugly, which is a good sign with the postseason approaching.  7-3 in the last 10.

I freely admit that I am only following because of Clark.  I coached girls basketball with girls ranging from 3-7th grade so I have an affinity for it, but I never followed WNBA.

But, it’s pretty cool having your local team have this phenom who is the focal point of the whole league.

It's been a lot of fun watching.  I know it's not for everyone but I enjoy watching Clark and the Fever play more than any other level of basketball.  Still love watching Iowa basketball but this is better.

[MLCKAA 546]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's been a lot of fun watching.  I know it's not for everyone but I enjoy watching Clark and the Fever play more than any other level of basketball.  Still love watching Iowa basketball but this is better.

People like to say it’s a bad product, but it isn’t really.  Sure, there are no dunks and the women are not as athletic as men in the NBA.  To me, that’s part of the appeal.  The NBA is garbage.  At least the WNBA doesn’t rely on pure athleticism to the overall detriment of the game.

And Clark is sensational.  She’s a full level above the rest of the league.  The thing that limits her the most is the inability of the people around her to play at her level.

[Strike 5,219]

13 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

People like to say it’s a bad product, but it isn’t really.  Sure, there are no dunks and the women are not as athletic as men in the NBA.  To me, that’s part of the appeal.  The NBA is garbage.  At least the WNBA doesn’t rely on pure athleticism to the overall detriment of the game.

And Clark is sensational.  She’s a full level above the rest of the league.  The thing that limits her the most is the inability of the people around her to play at her level.

Which has a lot to do with it being a bad product.  When I watch women's bball, at any level, I see a hell of a lot more missed layups than I do in mens bball.  The shooting is worse as well.  When you guys say it's not a bad product, that's only because you're comparing two teams of inferior players playing each other.  So, relative to each other, it's not a bad product.  Relative to the actual best players/teams in that sport it's a bad product. 

[MLCKAA 546]

7 minutes ago, Strike said:

Which has a lot to do with it being a bad product.  When I watch women's bball, at any level, I see a hell of a lot more missed layups than I do in mens bball.  The shooting is worse as well.  When you guys say it's not a bad product, that's only because you're comparing two teams of inferior players playing each other.  So, relative to each other, it's not a bad product.  Relative to the actual best players/teams in that sport it's a bad product. 

I guess if you’re saying that the NBA players are the best players in the sport, then we probably just disagree about that and it creates a roadblock to the rest of the conversation.  They’re the most athletic players in pro basketball, that’s for sure.

[Strike 5,219]

2 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

I guess if you’re saying that the NBA players are the best players in the sport, then we probably just disagree about that and it creates a roadblock to the rest of the conversation.  They’re the most athletic players in pro basketball, that’s for sure.

I didn't say the NBA.  You can look at male olympic players or even male high school players.  The best of those will destroy WNBA teams pretty much every time.   They shoot better, have better fundamentals, run more complex plays.  Just better in every way.  As I posted earlier in this thread, I watched a number of Caitlin Clark's final college games due to the hype.  And I was impressed by her.  She's really good.  FOR A GIRL.  Sorry to say that but it's true.  She jacks up bad threes and in the games I watched her shooting percentage wasn't great.  And that's all besides the fact that they play with a smaller, lighter ball than male players.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

4 hours ago, MLCKAA said:

And they did it ugly, which is a good sign with the postseason approaching.  7-3 in the last 10.

I freely admit that I am only following because of Clark.  I coached girls basketball with girls ranging from 3-7th grade so I have an affinity for it, but I never followed WNBA.

But, it’s pretty cool having your local team have this phenom who is the focal point of the whole league.

I've been following Clark only to watch the collective heads of all the haters in the WNBA, explode.  After they cave and realize that Clark is the only reason people care about their league and sport, I'll go back to ignoring it.  To note, I am not and will not watch any games, I just watch people commenting about the games on YouTube.  It's still a bad product and I don't watch the videos to see the game.  I watch to see how the league reacts.

[MLCKAA 546]

30 minutes ago, Strike said:

I didn't say the NBA.  You can look at male olympic players or even male high school players.  The best of those will destroy WNBA teams pretty much every time.   They shoot better, have better fundamentals, run more complex plays.  Just better in every way.  As I posted earlier in this thread, I watched a number of Caitlin Clark's final college games due to the hype.  And I was impressed by her.  She's really good.  FOR A GIRL.  Sorry to say that but it's true.  She jacks up bad threes and in the games I watched her shooting percentage wasn't great.  And that's all besides the fact that they play with a smaller, lighter ball than male players.

OK.  It sounds like you would just prefer to see men play.  That’s totally fine.  I think I take women’s sports for what they are and don’t really view it through the lens of male comparisons.

Why do that?  We’re obviously better than them at everything.  Speed and strength is just one of the many aspects!