Whistleblowers at UCLA medical school say it has dramatically lowered admissions standards for minority applicants.

[Cdub100 3,909]

https://x.com/aaronsibarium/status/1793657774767022569

 

This forced DEI is going to start killing even more people.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

I want my doctors and my airline pilots to be the most competent and sober folks available.  I don't care about the color of their skin, just their competence.  That said, with A.I. and robot surgeries maybe it will not matter in the future, but it sure matters right now.

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

5 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I want my doctors and my airline pilots to be the most competent and sober folks available.  I don't care about the color of their skin, just their competence.  That said, with A.I. and robot surgeries maybe it will not matter in the future, but it sure matters right now. 

Only if it’s true, and I’m highly skeptical that it is. I don’t trust the source. 

UCLA has one of the top medical schools in the entire country. Diversity programs might help some disadvantaged people get enrolled there but it won’t help them graduate. And even after they graduate they have to undergo a certain extremely difficult exam to become a doctor which is more difficult than the bar exam. 

I’ve been impressed with many of your posts lately. You seem like a highly intelligent, reasonable guy. Please don’t let @Cdub100’s bigotry infect you. 

[jerryskids 6,799]

That is a frightening article.  I would be shocked if UCLA is not sued over this.

That being said, at the end of the article they discussed a second problem:  changing to a woke curriculum:

Quote

The collapse in qualifications has been compounded by UCLA's decision, in 2020, to condense its preclinical curriculum from two years to one in order to add more time for research and community service. That means students arrive at their clinical rotations with just a year of courses under their belt—some of which focus less on science than social justice.

First-year students spend three to four hours every other week in "Structural Racism and Health Equity," a required class that covers topics like "fatphobia," has featured anti-Semitic speakers, and is now the subject of an internal review. They spend an additional seven hours a week in "Foundations of Practice," which includes units on "interpersonal communication skills" and, according to one medical student, basically "tells us how to be a good person." The two courses eat up time that could be spent on physiology or anatomy, professors say, and leave struggling students with fewer hours to learn the basics.

"This has been a colossal failure," one professor posted in April on a forum for medical school applicants. "The new curriculum is not working and the students are grossly unprepared for clinical rotations."

It seems that it is a combo of these two (admissions, curriculum) causing the "colossal failure."

[jerryskids 6,799]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Only if it’s true, and I’m highly skeptical that it is. I don’t trust the source. 

UCLA has one of the top medical schools in the entire country. Diversity programs might help some disadvantaged people get enrolled there but it won’t help them graduate. And even after they graduate they have to undergo a certain extremely difficult exam to become a doctor which is more difficult than the bar exam. 

I’ve been impressed with many of your posts lately. You seem like a highly intelligent, reasonable guy. Please don’t let @Cdub100’s bigotry infect you. 

What about the source do you not trust?  Do you think they made up the quotes?  The test results data?

Also the article doesn't say they are becoming doctors; the point is that they aren't passing, and in some cases not even taking, tests necessary to do so.

I hope that you are correct and that the standards to ultimately become a doctor are not compromised in the name of DEI.

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

4 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

That is a frightening article.  I would be shocked if UCLA is not sued over this.

That being said, at the end of the article they discussed a second problem:  changing to a woke curriculum:

It seems that it is a combo of these two (admissions, curriculum) causing the "colossal failure."

Again, if all this is true, all it means is that less graduates from UCLA medical school will pass their medical exams which will in turn lower UCLA’s standing among medical schools (currently top 10 in the USA). Which will hurt UCLA, but not the country. If that doesn’t happen, then we can conclude this story is bogus. 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

What about the source do you not trust?  Do you think they made up the quotes?  The test results data?

Also the article doesn't say they are becoming doctors; the point is that they aren't passing, and in some cases not even taking, tests necessary to do so.

I hope that you are correct and that the standards to ultimately become a doctor are not compromised in the name of DEI.

The Beacon is largely conservative opinion of the extreme MAGA variety. It’s not a legitimate news source IMO. 

The basic test to get into medical school is called the MCAT. UCLA requires this. I don’t know what score you need to pass but it’s very difficult- students study for months or years. (My daughter is about to enroll for post graduate, pre-med school and UCLA is one of the schools she hopes to apply to in a couple years so I’ve become quite aware of this recently.) I would be very surprised if UCLA or any other medical school of note is allowing minority students to fail the MCAT but get in anyway. They may be allowing in passing scores that are lower than average but STILL PASSiNG- which is again very difficult. 

[jerryskids 6,799]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Again, if all this is true, all it means is that less graduates from UCLA medical school will pass their medical exams which will in turn lower UCLA’s standing among medical schools (currently top 10 in the USA). Which will hurt UCLA, but not the country. If that doesn’t happen, then we can conclude this story is bogus. 

How is the story bogus?  I just told you what the story is.  Did you read the link?

[jerryskids 6,799]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

The Beacon is largely conservative opinion of the extreme MAGA variety. It’s not a legitimate news source IMO. 

The basic test to get into medical school is called the MCAT. UCLA requires this. I don’t know what score you need to pass but it’s very difficult- students study for months or years. (My daughter is about to enroll for post graduate, pre-med school and UCLA is one of the schools she hopes to apply to in a couple years so I’ve become quite aware of this recently.) I would be very surprised if UCLA or any other medical school of note is allowing minority students to fail the MCAT but get in anyway. They may be allowing in passing scores that are lower than average but STILL PASSiNG- which is again very difficult. 

Quote

There is no set passing score on the MCAT; therefore, understanding the different MCAT score ranges and which percentile you’ve scored in will help you set realistic goals. 

https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/whats-a-good-mcat-score/#:~:text=There is no set passing,help you set realistic goals.

 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

How is the story bogus?  I just told you what the story is.  Did you read the link?

Because so much of it is interpretation and opinion rather than facts. Is UCLA allowing students who fail the MCAT to enroll in its medical school? If true that would be a major issue. If untrue then the whole story is meaningless and bogus. Is UCLA allowing students to graduate from its medical school without proper knowledge and ability of how to perform competently in the medical field? If true that would be a major issue, but only for UCLA’s standing not for the country. 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/whats-a-good-mcat-score/#:~:text=There is no set passing,help you set realistic goals.

 

Technically true but the very best medical schools have a minimum that you need to get in. 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/university-of-california-los-angeles-04010#:~:text=University of California--Los Angeles (Geffen) is ranked No,Best Medical Schools%3A Primary Care.

#10 in primary care, #18 in research. So I’m not worried about the sort of graduates they produce. 

[jerryskids 6,799]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because so much of it is interpretation and opinion rather than facts. Is UCLA allowing students who fail the MCAT to enroll in its medical school? If true that would be a major issue. If untrue then the whole story is meaningless and bogus. Is UCLA allowing students to graduate from its medical school without proper knowledge and ability of how to perform competently in the medical field? If true that would be a major issue, but only for UCLA’s standing not for the country. 

Again I'll ask if you read the article.

Quote

Also the article doesn't say they are becoming doctors; the point is that they aren't passing, and in some cases not even taking, tests necessary to do so.

 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

Here is a general article on attacks on diversity in higher education from Scientific American: 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/attacks-on-diversity-in-higher-education-threaten-democracy/

The purpose of these attacks is, of course, blatant racism. That’s why a guy like @Cdub100 is always posting them around here. 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Again I'll ask if you read the article.

 

Yes I read it. But I was also responding to the OP which warns that DEI is “killing people.” 
If they’re not becoming doctors and they’re not passing tests then who cares? Again how would this story, even if true, affect anything other than UCLA’s high standing? 

[jerryskids 6,799]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Here is a general article on attacks on diversity in higher education from Scientific American: 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/attacks-on-diversity-in-higher-education-threaten-democracy/

The purpose of these attacks is, of course, blatant racism. That’s why a guy like @Cdub100 is always posting them around here. 

There is nothing "scientific" about Scientific American anymore.  It has become a woke political activist magazine, as your article corroborates.  In fact that op-ed would make the most progressive Leftie publication proud.  Here is the bio on the article you linked, from the bottom of the article:

ABBY L. FERBER is Professor of Sociology and Women’s and Ethnic Studies at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs. She also directs the Matrix Center for the Advancement of Social Equity and Inclusion and the annual Knapsack Institute Knapsack Institute: Transforming Teaching and Learning.

 

Here is discussion on Scientific American becoming woke, from a long-time writer there:

https://michaelshermer.substack.com/p/scientific-american-goes-woke

It's long, but interesting.

[jerryskids 6,799]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yes I read it. But I was also responding to the OP which warns that DEI is “killing people.” 
If they’re not becoming doctors and they’re not passing tests then who cares? Again how would this story, even if true, affect anything other than UCLA’s high standing? 

My concern is that we may see the slippery slope of diminishing standards like we have in areas like emergency responders.

[weepaws 3,193]

They need jobs to, so what if it affects the health of people, mane of those people believe it’s okay to murder children.  I guess it’s only wrong when it affects the  prideful ones.  

Trust in the Lord, not in man.  

Thanks. 

[Mike Honcho 5,283]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

What about the source do you not trust?  Do you think they made up the quotes?  The test results data?

Also the article doesn't say they are becoming doctors; the point is that they aren't passing, and in some cases not even taking, tests necessary to do so.

I hope that you are correct and that the standards to ultimately become a doctor are not compromised in the name of DEI.

Just to be fair, do you know how many times people on the right, on this very sight, scream about anonymous sources and dismiss everything out of hand. 
Also, I'm not doing that, I read the article, don't have a reason not to believe it---see if more comes of it publically. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

38 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

There is nothing "scientific" about Scientific American anymore.  It has become a woke political activist magazine, as your article corroborates.  In fact that op-ed would make the most progressive Leftie publication proud.  Here is the bio on the article you linked, from the bottom of the article:

ABBY L. FERBER is Professor of Sociology and Women’s and Ethnic Studies at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs. She also directs the Matrix Center for the Advancement of Social Equity and Inclusion and the annual Knapsack Institute Knapsack Institute: Transforming Teaching and Learning.

 

Here is discussion on Scientific American becoming woke, from a long-time writer there:

https://michaelshermer.substack.com/p/scientific-american-goes-woke

It's long, but interesting.

Tim: I have serious doubts about your link as it's from what I consider a dubious source.

Also Tim: Here is a link to my dubious source that you should believe.

So, in essence, Tim will only believe his propaganda on issues.  Your links and sources will ALWAYS be disregarded.

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Tim: I have serious doubts about your link as it's from what I consider a dubious source.

Also Tim: Here is a link to my dubious source that you should believe.

So, in essence, Tim will only believe his propaganda on issues.  Your links and sources will ALWAYS be disregarded.

Umm no. I offered an opinion article- I never pretended otherwise. I’m not attempting to offer facts in this case, only an opinion (which I happen to share.) 

[supermike80 1,913]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Umm no. I offered an opinion article- I never pretended otherwise. I’m not attempting to offer facts in this case, only an opinion (which I happen to share.) 

Hey look! Another Tim lie!!   You called it a "general" article in your post.  Then you got called out, was made to look silly, then changed it to an "opinion" article.

Eternal you are 100% correct.  Timmy only believes his media, he's completely influenced by it, and isn't intelligent enough to know the difference.  it's very sad.

[supermike80 1,913]

54 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

There is nothing "scientific" about Scientific American anymore.  It has become a woke political activist magazine, as your article corroborates.  In fact that op-ed would make the most progressive Leftie publication proud.  Here is the bio on the article you linked, from the bottom of the article:

ABBY L. FERBER is Professor of Sociology and Women’s and Ethnic Studies at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs. She also directs the Matrix Center for the Advancement of Social Equity and Inclusion and the annual Knapsack Institute Knapsack Institute: Transforming Teaching and Learning.

 

Here is discussion on Scientific American becoming woke, from a long-time writer there:

https://michaelshermer.substack.com/p/scientific-american-goes-woke

It's long, but interesting.

Its utterly comical how easily manipulated Tim is.   It's sad too..But my goodness.

[jerryskids 6,799]

25 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Just to be fair, do you know how many times people on the right, on this very sight, scream about anonymous sources and dismiss everything out of hand. 
Also, I'm not doing that, I read the article, don't have a reason not to believe it---see if more comes of it publically. 

True.  I'd say a few things though.  One, there were so many quotes, it's hard to believe they were all made up.  Two, it is completely understandable why the people being quoted would want to remain anonymous, particularly given the alleged aggressive behavior of Lucero and the lack to date of the school to do anything about the situation, despite multiple reports.

My concern with the article, and I mentioned it before, is that you have to get to the very end to see "oh BTW, they also significantly wokified the curriculum at the same time."  That leaves me wondering how much of the issue to attribute to each factor.   

[jerryskids 6,799]

25 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Umm no. I offered an opinion article- I never pretended otherwise. I’m not attempting to offer facts in this case, only an opinion (which I happen to share.) 

You also used it to claim "the purpose of such articles is blatant racism."  I'm sure your DEI op ed woman thinks so, but I think that is disingenuous from you.

[Strike 5,553]

28 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Tim: I have serious doubts about your link as it's from what I consider a dubious source.

Also Tim: Here is a link to my dubious source that you should believe.

So, in essence, Tim will only believe his propaganda on issues.  Your links and sources will ALWAYS be disregarded.

Tim is the definition of a confirmation bias poster.  He only cares about sources that support his opinion.  As I always say he works backwards by forming an opinion and then seeking out "proof" that he is correct as opposed to looking for valid evidence and forming an opinion from the evidence.

[Cdub100 3,909]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Only if it’s true, and I’m highly skeptical that it is. I don’t trust the source. 

UCLA has one of the top medical schools in the entire country. Diversity programs might help some disadvantaged people get enrolled there but it won’t help them graduate. And even after they graduate they have to undergo a certain extremely difficult exam to become a doctor which is more difficult than the bar exam. 

I’ve been impressed with many of your posts lately. You seem like a highly intelligent, reasonable guy. Please don’t let @Cdub100’s bigotry infect you. 

Oy Vey!!! Facts are racist! 

[Cdub100 3,909]

Diversity is our strength. 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

30 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Hey look! Another Tim lie!!   You called it a "general" article in your post.  Then you got called out, was made to look silly, then changed it to an "opinion" article.

Eternal you are 100% correct.  Timmy only believes his media, he's completely influenced by it, and isn't intelligent enough to know the difference.  it's very sad.

Wow. 
I used the word “general” because the article was  about diversity in higher education in general and not about medical schools per se which was the topic of this thread. But you seem obsessed with calling me a liar, which is interesting in itself. 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

15 minutes ago, Strike said:

Tim is the definition of a confirmation bias poster.  He only cares about sources that support his opinion.  As I always say he works backwards by forming an opinion and then seeking out "proof" that he is correct as opposed to looking for valid evidence and forming an opinion from the evidence.

Your definition of confirmation bias is correct but I am not a victim of it. IMO, you are and so are most of those who are posting in this thread, lol. 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

22 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

You also used it to claim "the purpose of such articles is blatant racism."  I'm sure your DEI op ed woman thinks so, but I think that is disingenuous from you.

Not disingenous at all. It’s my honest opinion. 

 

[supermike80 1,913]

12 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Wow. 
I used the word “general” because the article was  about diversity in higher education in general and not about medical schools per se which was the topic of this thread. But you seem obsessed with calling me a liar, which is interesting in itself. 

Ugh...Ok Timmy.

[Strike 5,553]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Your definition of confirmation bias is correct but I am not a victim of it. IMO, you are and so are most of those who are posting in this thread, lol. 

Just making sh*t up again.  There's a reason that when I post a link it's from a source YOU can't quibble with.  I want to discuss the FACTS and not the legitimacy of the source, while almost universally you post links to left wing and/or activist websites that cause exactly what happened here:. Arguing over the source instead of the content.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

This should surprise no one.  Obama ushered in a whole new era where instead of raising the bar we lowered it.  You see evidence of the drop in quality everywhere in this country.  Our entire service sector is made up of idiots who can’t even spell the name “Mike”.  On top of that, people are both lazy and entitled - the worst possible combination.  Focking Libtards destroyed this country, and it didn’t take all that long.

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

25 minutes ago, Strike said:

Just making sh*t up again.  There's a reason that when I post a link it's from a source YOU can't quibble with.  I want to discuss the FACTS and not the legitimacy of the source, while almost universally you post links to left wing and/or activist websites that cause exactly what happened here:. Arguing over the source instead of the content.

Yeah your BS lectures are so tiresome. If you want to argue the content then do so. My position is that most of the current attacks against diversity are thinly veiled racism. What guys like @Cdub100 want is for us to look at black doctors, or black pilots, or any minority in a profession that demands expertise, and question their skills. That’s the whole purpose of this thread and this topic and you and others have been suckered into it. I feel sorry for you. 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

2 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

This should surprise no one.  Obama ushered in a whole new era where instead of raising the bar we lowered it.  You see evidence of the drop in quality everywhere in this country.  Our entire service sector is made up of idiots who can’t even spell the name “Mike”.  On top of that, people are both lazy and entitled - the worst possible combination.  Focking Libtards destroyed this country, and it didn’t take all that long.

YOU are destroying the country. You and your paranoia over topics like these. 

[Cdub100 3,909]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Yeah your BS lectures are so tiresome. If you want to argue the content then do so. My position is that most of the current attacks against diversity are thinly veiled racism. What guys like @Cdub100 want is for us to look at black doctors, or black pilots, or any minority in a profession that demands expertise, and question their skills. That’s the whole purpose of this thread and this topic and you and others have been suckered into it. I feel sorry for you. 

It sure is interesting anytime someone shares concerns regarding lowered standards you point to black people and claim racism.

Why do you do that @The Real timschochet 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

FTR I’m not even in favor of offering different standards for minorities when applying to college or higher levels of education. I think the problems in education need to be fixed in primary schools- once you get to college it’s too late. So I’m actually against most affirmative action type solutions. 
But the racism that is present when these topics come up- the paranoid fear and pointing towards minorities and questioning their competence- is just so ugly and awful it turns my stomach. Just repugnant. 

[kilroy69 1,251]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Only if it’s true, and I’m highly skeptical that it is. I don’t trust the source. 

UCLA has one of the top medical schools in the entire country. Diversity programs might help some disadvantaged people get enrolled there but it won’t help them graduate. And even after they graduate they have to undergo a certain extremely difficult exam to become a doctor which is more difficult than the bar exam. 

I’ve been impressed with many of your posts lately. You seem like a highly intelligent, reasonable guy. Please don’t let @Cdub100’s bigotry infect you. 

Only if it's true he said....hahahaahaha 

[The Real timschochet 6,769]

1 minute ago, Cdub100 said:

It sure is interesting anytime someone shares concerns regarding lowered standards you point to black people and claim racism.

Why do you do that @The Real timschochet 

Not anytime. But always when you do it. Because you’re a racist and bigot and a Jew hater and I know exactly what your motives are.