Downfall of mainstream media

[Frozenbeernuts 2,233]

16 minutes ago, Fnord said:

They're so enraptured by their orange god that, like him, they no longer have any concept of truth or lies. There is only what Donald tells them, and that is their truth. This is why he is such a threat. His cult is so far gone they will support and defend anything he does, no matter how heinous or illegal. 

He is the lesser evil. I hope that Trump voters don't blindly trust the conservatives at this point. Most politicians are in on destroying the country.

[Fnord 2,187]

4 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

He is the lesser evil. I hope that Trump voters don't blindly trust the conservatives at this point. Most politicians are in on destroying the country.

The problem IMO is that they trust nothing but Trump, who has no use for, or concept of, the truth. Trump’s truth is only what transactionally and expeditiously favors Trump in any given moment. 

[Frozenbeernuts 2,233]

16 minutes ago, Fnord said:

The problem IMO is that they trust nothing but Trump, who has no use for, or concept of, the truth. Trump’s truth is only what transactionally and expeditiously favors Trump in any given moment. 

I mean... they all do this. Every single one of them to varying degrees. 

Do I want a guy who may stretch the truth at times to frame something, but is a qualified leader, anti child mutilation, wants to stop the flow of immigrants, isn't threatening to reduce our 1st and 2nd amendment rights, and wants to end all of the wars?

Vs

Open chaotic border, threats of removing disinformation (laughable that any one group could be trusted to hold the power of truth), pro child mutilation through surgery and hormone replacement etc.

Give me the first one. Kamala Harris supports cutting off a child's reproductive parts and giving them hormone replacement. Isn't that really messed up to you? Shouldn't that be a topic that is very high on our concern list?

[Fnord 2,187]

@Frozenbeernuts

I want to give you a thoughtful response and appreciate you doing the same, but can't give it the time it deserves at the moment. But I will, and if I don't, remind me, please.

[Maximum Overkill 1,907]

2 hours ago, Fnord said:

The problem IMO is that they trust nothing but Trump, who has no use for, or concept of, the truth. Trump’s truth is only what transactionally and expeditiously favors Trump in any given moment. 

And Kamala voters? 

Why would anyone vote for her? 

You really believe she'll fix the problems that she created?? She's gonna fix the border problem that she's responsible for??  

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,026]

8 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

And Kamala voters? 

Why would anyone vote for her? 

You really believe she'll fix the problems that she created?? She's gonna fix the border problem that she's responsible for??  

He's not called fnretard because he's smart.  You're arguing with a cult member.

[Maximum Overkill 1,907]

2 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

He's not called fnretard because he's smart.  You're arguing with a cult member.

 

 

[F1erce 88]

8 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

I did actually see Kamala get mocked on CNN because it's getting so ridiculous.

Seen the same. Also after her “interview” with Oprah she took an even worse beating. Oprah herself looked like she couldn’t believe what the woman was saying  

[TimHauck 2,724]

On 9/14/2024 at 12:56 PM, TimHauck said:

I agree, Matt Wallace is a much better source of news.

 

Is Bill Gates done yet?

 

 

This guy is literally making money by posting nonsense like this:

 

[Fnord 2,187]

On 9/28/2024 at 3:17 PM, Frozenbeernuts said:

I mean... they all do this. Every single one of them to varying degrees. 

Do I want a guy who may stretch the truth at times to frame something, but is a qualified leader, anti child mutilation, wants to stop the flow of immigrants, isn't threatening to reduce our 1st and 2nd amendment rights, and wants to end all of the wars?

Vs

Open chaotic border, threats of removing disinformation (laughable that any one group could be trusted to hold the power of truth), pro child mutilation through surgery and hormone replacement etc.

Give me the first one. Kamala Harris supports cutting off a child's reproductive parts and giving them hormone replacement. Isn't that really messed up to you? Shouldn't that be a topic that is very high on our concern list?

To your 2nd paragraph: IMO you are glazing over his propensity for lying. At his most honest, he's still prone to hyperbole. Typically, much of what comes out of his mouth is flat-out lies, I could start listing some of them, but it probably isn't worth the time. I also strongly disagree that he is a qualified leader. He would never be able to reach a leadership position in the company I work for, and let's just say I have less responsibility than the President. His party is in the midst of banning books from public libraries, so he's not exactly a champion of 1A.

As for all the talk about mutilating kids- BS. Supporting access to gender affirming procedures is not the same as favoring child mutilation. Much like abortion, it's a private matter between patients, parents, and their medical providers. If it's not your reproductive system in question, it's none of your damn business what choices other people make. It's not a concern for me at all. What would concern me more is if I found out one of my kids was suffering from gender dysphoria and a political party was responsible for me not being able to seek the care I feel necessary. That is not the role of government, especially if you're of the mind that gov't size and influence needs to be reduced.

[jerryskids 6,719]

57 minutes ago, Fnord said:

To your 2nd paragraph: IMO you are glazing over his propensity for lying. At his most honest, he's still prone to hyperbole. Typically, much of what comes out of his mouth is flat-out lies, I could start listing some of them, but it probably isn't worth the time. I also strongly disagree that he is a qualified leader. He would never be able to reach a leadership position in the company I work for, and let's just say I have less responsibility than the President. His party is in the midst of banning books from public libraries, so he's not exactly a champion of 1A.

As for all the talk about mutilating kids- BS. Supporting access to gender affirming procedures is not the same as favoring child mutilation. Much like abortion, it's a private matter between patients, parents, and their medical providers. If it's not your reproductive system in question, it's none of your damn business what choices other people make. It's not a concern for me at all. What would concern me more is if I found out one of my kids was suffering from gender dysphoria and a political party was responsible for me not being able to seek the care I feel necessary. That is not the role of government, especially if you're of the mind that gov't size and influence needs to be reduced.

If I may, I'm going to chime in with two separate responses.

First, IMO "hyperbole" is the key to understanding Trump-speak.  For instance, "Their eating the dogs and cats" translates to "we need to address this migrant problem."  But the latter doesn't get publicity.  The former does, and we all talked about it for weeks.  Similarly, "20% tariff on all imports" means "we need to fix this trade imbalance," "we're going to deport all of the illegals" means "we have an immigration issue," etc.  His brain works like his "art of the deal," starting from an extreme position and "negotiating" back.

As evidence, I present to you his 4 years as POTUS in which he did nothing remotely so whacky.  I know, I know, this time will be different$#@! but... all I can do is show evidence.  Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.   

[jerryskids 6,719]

1 hour ago, Fnord said:

To your 2nd paragraph: IMO you are glazing over his propensity for lying. At his most honest, he's still prone to hyperbole. Typically, much of what comes out of his mouth is flat-out lies, I could start listing some of them, but it probably isn't worth the time. I also strongly disagree that he is a qualified leader. He would never be able to reach a leadership position in the company I work for, and let's just say I have less responsibility than the President. His party is in the midst of banning books from public libraries, so he's not exactly a champion of 1A.

As for all the talk about mutilating kids- BS. Supporting access to gender affirming procedures is not the same as favoring child mutilation. Much like abortion, it's a private matter between patients, parents, and their medical providers. If it's not your reproductive system in question, it's none of your damn business what choices other people make. It's not a concern for me at all. What would concern me more is if I found out one of my kids was suffering from gender dysphoria and a political party was responsible for me not being able to seek the care I feel necessary. That is not the role of government, especially if you're of the mind that gov't size and influence needs to be reduced.

Point #2:  On your second paragraph, what concerns me more is that for every kid  you describe in the bolded, there are potentially orders of magnitude more who are being fast-tracked through the (now for profit with gender clinics) gender transition machine, kids who are depressed, confused by hormone changes and societal praising of trans, not actually gender dysphoric.  I've said before, I too believe that the government should not get in the middle of such medical decisions.  But we have a problem in both our society and our medical industry which is harming far too many children.

[jerryskids 6,719]

And now, what I actually came in here to post.  MSNBC wants to recreate Mao's Red Guards, young children snitching on their parents to the Party leaders.

His father was watching scary right wing media!   

[Fnord 2,187]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

If I may, I'm going to chime in with two separate responses.

First, IMO "hyperbole" is the key to understanding Trump-speak.  For instance, "Their eating the dogs and cats" translates to "we need to address this migrant problem."  But the latter doesn't get publicity.  The former does, and we all talked about it for weeks.  Similarly, "20% tariff on all imports" means "we need to fix this trade imbalance," "we're going to deport all of the illegals" means "we have an immigration issue," etc.  His brain works like his "art of the deal," starting from an extreme position and "negotiating" back.

As evidence, I present to you his 4 years as POTUS in which he did nothing remotely so whacky.  I know, I know, this time will be different$#@! but... all I can do is show evidence.  Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.   

Sure. You keep going with that, be my guest. We have had this conversation before, probably several times. A second admin staffed by flunkies possessing no qualifications other than blind loyalty and sociopathy will not tell the Turnip "NO" when he wants to do stupid shlt like fire 50,000 qualified government workers, shoot protestors and migrants, or withhold federal disaster aid to a blue state.

Also, I'm not sure how anyone can be versed in "translating Turnip" since he himself doesn't even know what is truth, lie, or somewhere in between. I realize that one should never trust a politician, but your boy doesn't even ATTEMPT to be truthful. Like, ever. Regrettably, many (especially here) believe much of what he says on it's face, or at the very least cannot distinguish his "hyperbole" from flat-out untruth. That is why multiple geeks (among millions of others) are admittedly totally cool with violently dealing with ALL LIBERALS. 

[Fnord 2,187]

11 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Point #2:  On your second paragraph, what concerns me more is that for every kid  you describe in the bolded, there are potentially orders of magnitude more who are being fast-tracked through the (now for profit with gender clinics) gender transition machine, kids who are depressed, confused by hormone changes and societal praising of trans, not actually gender dysphoric.  I've said before, I too believe that the government should not get in the middle of such medical decisions.  But we have a problem in both our society and our medical industry which is harming far too many children.

Tell ya what. You come up with some numbers for me on how many kids have been "forced" into gender affirming care against their own or their parent's wishes and I'll concede that this is a real, widespread problem and not some grossly overhyped straw man meant to to rile up the MAGA culture warriors that mostly have absolutely no clue as to what any of this really means to those having to deal with it. Let's talk about issues that affect more than .01% of the American populace and leave the people dealing with these incredibly difficult decisions in peace.

[jonnyutah 271]

What is wrong with shooting migrants and protesters breeching walls? 

They shot Ashley Babbitt because she had been warned over and over and she was breaking into an area she wasnt supposed to be in. 

She was an American. 

Why is it ok to shoot her, but not shoot foreign invaders cutting down border fencing and climbing through? 

Why cant we shoot a BLM protester when he goes all Babbitt at the local police station and tries to take it over and set it on fire? 

 

[TimHauck 2,724]

4 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

What is wrong with shooting migrants and protesters breeching walls? 

They shot Ashley Babbitt because she had been warned over and over and she was breaking into an area she wasnt supposed to be in. 

She was an American. 

Why is it ok to shoot her, but not shoot foreign invaders cutting down border fencing and climbing through? 

Why cant we shoot a BLM protester when he goes all Babbitt at the local police station and tries to take it over and set it on fire? 

 

So you’re saying it was OK to shoot Babbitt?

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

If I may, I'm going to chime in with two separate responses.

First, IMO "hyperbole" is the key to understanding Trump-speak.  For instance, "Their eating the dogs and cats" translates to "we need to address this migrant problem."  But the latter doesn't get publicity.  The former does, and we all talked about it for weeks.  Similarly, "20% tariff on all imports" means "we need to fix this trade imbalance," "we're going to deport all of the illegals" means "we have an immigration issue," etc.  His brain works like his "art of the deal," starting from an extreme position and "negotiating" back.

As evidence, I present to you his 4 years as POTUS in which he did nothing remotely so whacky.  I know, I know, this time will be different$#@! but... all I can do is show evidence.  Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.   

So would you agree then that Trump is a horrible public speaker. If you want to try and change an issue the best thing would be to mention the actual issue and not say something so over the top insane that the insane part becomes the story. 

[Fnord 2,187]

12 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

What is wrong with shooting migrants and protesters breeching walls? 

They shot Ashley Babbitt because she had been warned over and over and she was breaking into an area she wasnt supposed to be in. 

She was an American. 

Why is it ok to shoot her, but not shoot foreign invaders cutting down border fencing and climbing through? 

Why cant we shoot a BLM protester when he goes all Babbitt at the local police station and tries to take it over and set it on fire? 

 

Shooting people without cause is a crime. And the cause needs to be appropriate. Cutting a hole in a fence is not a crime worthy of potential execution. Ashley Babbitt was shot while committing a crime. You can argue whether it was warranted or not, but she was told to stand down by armed police and did not. Foreigners (assuming you meant illegal immigrants) are not invaders and are not committing acts of violence except in rare cases, despite the contrary rhetoric. The vast majority are fleeing their homes looking for better lives for themselves and their families, which you and I might also do had we not been lucky enough to be born here.

By definition, protesting is a 1A protected act, not criminal. If protestors become violent, I suppose shooting could be justified, depending on circumstances. Probably not okay to shoot someone for trying to light a building on fire or yelling nasty things. I would not have a problem with cops shooting "protestors" that were violently attempting to overrun a police precinct. At that point, they are not protestors, they are assailants. 

[jerryskids 6,719]

2 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

So would you agree then that Trump is a horrible public speaker. If you want to try and change an issue the best thing would be to mention the actual issue and not say something so over the top insane that the insane part becomes the story. 

No, if you read my post, I said the opposite.  If you meant to say he is horrible at speaking politician pablum, then I agree.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,233]

5 hours ago, Fnord said:

To your 2nd paragraph: IMO you are glazing over his propensity for lying. At his most honest, he's still prone to hyperbole. Typically, much of what comes out of his mouth is flat-out lies, I could start listing some of them, but it probably isn't worth the time. I also strongly disagree that he is a qualified leader. He would never be able to reach a leadership position in the company I work for, and let's just say I have less responsibility than the President. His party is in the midst of banning books from public libraries, so he's not exactly a champion of 1A.

As for all the talk about mutilating kids- BS. Supporting access to gender affirming procedures is not the same as favoring child mutilation. Much like abortion, it's a private matter between patients, parents, and their medical providers. If it's not your reproductive system in question, it's none of your damn business what choices other people make. It's not a concern for me at all. What would concern me more is if I found out one of my kids was suffering from gender dysphoria and a political party was responsible for me not being able to seek the care I feel necessary. That is not the role of government, especially if you're of the mind that gov't size and influence needs to be reduced.

If your child wanted to cut off their arm would you let them?

It's a decision there is no going back from when surgery is involved. I would do everything in my power to teach my kids to love themselves the way they are. If they make it to 18 and they want to do it, well it's their body. Children though? I see too many heart breaking stories of people who were allowed to change their gender and now regret it. There's no going back.

If the role of government does not include getting involved in allowing or not allowing children to cut off their genitals, then it shouldn't be involved in almost anything else. Everything at that point is over stepping.

[Fnord 2,187]

2 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

If your child wanted to cut off their arm would you let them?

It's a decision there is no going back from when surgery is involved. I would do everything in my power to teach my kids to love themselves the way they are. If they make it to 18 and they want to do it, well it's their body. Children though? I see too many heart breaking stories of people who were allowed to change their gender and now regret it. There's no going back.

If the role of government does not include getting involved in allowing or not allowing children to cut off their genitals, then it shouldn't be involved in almost anything else. Everything at that point is over stepping.

Thanks again. We agree on the bolded. The issue for me is that gov't is not sitting around the dining room table trying to figure out how to honor the wishes of a child that you love when you can't be completely sure that they even understand their own wishes. If my 8 yr old decided she wanted to be a boy, I'm going to seek psychiatric help for her, and possibly the rest of the family as well. If she's still sure about it when she's 15 and wants surgery, we can talk about it with her and make a decision in our best interests, whatever that is. Reasonably, I think 14-15 would be the absolute youngest age where that should even be an option. Ideally, not until after they're 18. But I don't want to dictate those terms for other people without having a thorough understanding of the details of each individual case, which is impossible. Better to err on the side of personal freedom, IMO.

[jerryskids 6,719]

4 hours ago, Fnord said:

Tell ya what. You come up with some numbers for me on how many kids have been "forced" into gender affirming care against their own or their parent's wishes and I'll concede that this is a real, widespread problem and not some grossly overhyped straw man meant to to rile up the MAGA culture warriors that mostly have absolutely no clue as to what any of this really means to those having to deal with it. Let's talk about issues that affect more than .01% of the American populace and leave the people dealing with these incredibly difficult decisions in peace.

I never said "forced."  I said influenced.  The huge surge in girls identifying as trans is indisputed; what IS in dispute is the cause.  Trans activists like @The Real timschochet will tell you they are all real, they just feel comfortable coming out not.  I am on the side that this is disconnected from reality.  Here is an article from Reuters that discusses it.

Quote

...

Thousands of children who, like Kulovitz, were assigned female at birth have sought gender-affirming care in recent years. And for reasons not well-understood, they significantly outnumber those assigned male at birth who seek treatment.

As Reuters reported in October, a growing number of the children receiving care at the 100-plus gender clinics across the United States are opting for medical interventions – puberty-blocking drugs, hormones and, less often, surgery. And they are doing so even though strong scientific evidence of the long-term safety and efficacy of these treatments for children is scant.

That has led to a split among gender-care specialists: those who urge caution to ensure that only adolescents deemed well-suited to treatment after thorough evaluation receive it, and those who believe that delays in treatment unnecessarily prolong a child’s distress and put them at risk of self-harm.

The outsized proportion of adolescents seeking treatment to transition from female to male has sparked parallel concerns. Professionals in the gender-care community agree that treatment of all transgender children should be supportive and affirming. The question, for some, is whether peer groups and online media may be influencing some of these patients to pursue medical transition, with potentially irreversible side effects, at a time in their lives when their identities are often in flux.

...

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-topsurgery/#:~:text=Adolescents assigned female at birth,beach there with other children.

The explosion in the number of gender clinics in the US is also documented.  This entire article, also from Reuters, is worth reading:

Quote

But families that go the medical route venture onto uncertain ground, where science has yet to catch up with practice. While the number of gender clinics treating children in the United States has grown from zero to more than 100 in the past 15 years – and waiting lists are long – strong evidence of the efficacy and possible long-term consequences of that treatment remains scant.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/

These clinics are not in the business of determining that a person doesn't need their care.

Something is terribly wrong here, and mutilating kids while we figure it out is unacceptable.

[Fnord 2,187]

6 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I never said "forced."  I said influenced.  The huge surge in girls identifying as trans is indisputed; what IS in dispute is the cause.  Trans activists like @The Real timschochet will tell you they are all real, they just feel comfortable coming out not.  I am on the side that this is disconnected from reality.  Here is an article from Reuters that discusses it.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-topsurgery/#:~:text=Adolescents assigned female at birth,beach there with other children.

The explosion in the number of gender clinics in the US is also documented.  This entire article, also from Reuters, is worth reading:

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/

These clinics are not in the business of determining that a person doesn't need their care.

Something is terribly wrong here, and mutilating kids while we figure it out is unacceptable.

I disagree with nothing you posted here. But again, I will not concede that this is a matter for the affected children, their parents/guardians, and medical providers. You want to point fingers, point them at the lazy, irresponsible parents or the providers not living up to their Hippocratic oaths. I'm okay with the gov't getting involved in interscholastic sports to prevent biological males from competing in the same gender- segregated sports as biological females. I do not think it should go beyond that, despite some terrible outcomes.

[jerryskids 6,719]

35 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I disagree with nothing you posted here. But again, I will not concede that this is a matter for the affected children, their parents/guardians, and medical providers. You want to point fingers, point them at the lazy, irresponsible parents or the providers not living up to their Hippocratic oaths. I'm okay with the gov't getting involved in interscholastic sports to prevent biological males from competing in the same gender- segregated sports as biological females. I do not think it should go beyond that, despite some terrible outcomes.

If you agree with my last sentence, I don't see how you come to this position.

Also, by your argument, I presume you also disagree with states taking away parental rights and/or giving sanctuary to "trans" kids against their parents' wishes?

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

No, if you read my post, I said the opposite.  If you meant to say he is horrible at speaking politician pablum, then I agree.

Again- if the insane part becomes the story and pushes away from the actual issue then you are not getting across your point. 

[jerryskids 6,719]

21 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Again- if the insane part becomes the story and pushes away from the actual issue then you are not getting across your point. 

Again- the issue of a small town being swarmed by migrants would have been ignored if Trump said some politician-speak like "the number of migrants in Springfield is concerning."

[Hardcore troubadour 15,254]

The guy who had a top television show for years is a terrible public speaker, but Kamala and Biden are great at it.  Ok. 

[Fnord 2,187]

54 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

If you agree with my last sentence, I don't see how you come to this position.

Also, by your argument, I presume you also disagree with states taking away parental rights and/or giving sanctuary to "trans" kids against their parents' wishes?

Like I said, there will be some terrible outcomes. I don't like it, but this shlt happens every day.

As for your second paragraph, yes, on the surface, I do not agree with states taking away parental rights. But I do believe in the nuance of evaluating individual cases. As an extreme hypothetical example, I would not have a problem with a 15 year old with gender dysphoria being removed from her parents if they beat her and keep her locked up because of her "affliction."

Rules are good, and important, but they're never one size fits all. Everything in life has shades of gray.

[Fnord 2,187]

8 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Again- the issue of a small town being swarmed by migrants would have been ignored if Trump said some politician-speak like "the number of migrants in Springfield is concerning."

Ask the mayor and the lifelong Republican owner of the company employing Haitians that defended them. Now they're both getting death threats and being told by the FBI to install security at their homes and buy guns. I wonder if they would prefer to be ignored?

[jerryskids 6,719]

29 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Ask the mayor and the lifelong Republican owner of the company employing Haitians that defended them. Now they're both getting death threats and being told by the FBI to install security at their homes and buy guns. I wonder if they would prefer to be ignored?

Is your straw man now that bringing attention to the issue is bad?  I thought we were discussing Trump being a horrible public speaker as per Sean.  Seems you are saying he is too effective of a public speaker.   

[jerryskids 6,719]

39 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Like I said, there will be some terrible outcomes. I don't like it, but this shlt happens every day.

As for your second paragraph, yes, on the surface, I do not agree with states taking away parental rights. But I do believe in the nuance of evaluating individual cases. As an extreme hypothetical example, I would not have a problem with a 15 year old with gender dysphoria being removed from her parents if they beat her and keep her locked up because of her "affliction."

Rules are good, and important, but they're never one size fits all. Everything in life has shades of gray.

Sure, there are always exceptions.  Perhaps where we disagree is in the ratio of actual kids with severe gender dysphoria which may warrant medical intervention, vs. the less severe to social contagion cases.  I happen to think the latter is much more prevalent.  Even if not, or even if not a majority, I think the default should be "physician, do no harm" in general.

BTW, your 0.01% estimate earlier significantly underestimates the number of people, and particularly kids, who identify as trans.  This data is several years old, I'm sure it's much larger now.

Quote

Approximately 1.6 million people ages 13 and older—0.6% of the population—identify as transgender in the United States, according to new estimates from the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law. This includes 1.4% of youth ages 13-17 (about 300,000 youth) and 0.5% of adults (about 1.3 million adults).

Transgender individuals are younger on average than the general U.S. population. Nearly one in five people who identify as transgender (18%) are ages 13-17, compared to less than one in ten (8%) who are ages 13-17 in the general U.S. population.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/transgender-estimate-press-release/

[jonnyutah 271]

5 hours ago, TimHauck said:

So you’re saying it was OK to shoot Babbitt?

Obviously it was. The guy that pulled the trigger has not been punished at all. In fact he has been lauded by many.

Did i miss an arrest?

 

[jonnyutah 271]

5 hours ago, Fnord said:

Shooting people without cause is a crime. And the cause needs to be appropriate. Cutting a hole in a fence is not a crime worthy of potential execution. Ashley Babbitt was shot while committing a crime. You can argue whether it was warranted or not, but she was told to stand down by armed police and did not. Foreigners (assuming you meant illegal immigrants) are not invaders and are not committing acts of violence except in rare cases, despite the contrary rhetoric. The vast majority are fleeing their homes looking for better lives for themselves and their families, which you and I might also do had we not been lucky enough to be born here.

By definition, protesting is a 1A protected act, not criminal. If protestors become violent, I suppose shooting could be justified, depending on circumstances. Probably not okay to shoot someone for trying to light a building on fire or yelling nasty things. I would not have a problem with cops shooting "protestors" that were violently attempting to overrun a police precinct. At that point, they are not protestors, they are assailants. 

"They shot Ashley Babbitt because she had been warned over and over and she was breaking into an area she wasnt supposed to be in."

How is the bold above any different to what I typed just above.  

And then how is it any different when foreign invaders break through our legal defenses instead of legal ports of entry.  Frequently with armed officers yelling at them to stop. Ashley Babbitt was not a murderer. We do however know that many of the illegals breaking in are murderers though.

Seems you are willing to make all sorts of considerations for them, but not for american citizens. 

At least we agree with shooting the people trying to overrun a police precinct, so you have some sanity. 

 

[TimHauck 2,724]

28 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

Obviously it was. The guy that pulled the trigger has not been punished at all. In fact he has been lauded by many.

Did i miss an arrest?

 

No but your opinion differs from quite a few folks here.  Just doing a 30 second search I already see at least 3 different posters saying she was “murdered”

[jonnyutah 271]

2 hours ago, TimHauck said:

No but your opinion differs from quite a few folks here.  Just doing a 30 second search I already see at least 3 different posters saying she was “murdered”

If she was murdered and that is perfectly legal, then I think the same kind of murder should be on the table when it comes to protecting our nation.

I dont really care what we call it. I just know that government agents killing people for trespassing after shouting at them to stop is perfectly legal.

There is no better way to keep america safe than to mow down some women at the border after telling them to stand down as they try to climb through a barricade. 

Legal. Safe. Effective. Proven. 

 

[TimHauck 2,724]

36 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

If she was murdered and that is perfectly legal, then I think the same kind of murder should be on the table when it comes to protecting our nation.

I dont really care what we call it. I just know that government agents killing people for trespassing after shouting at them to stop is perfectly legal.

There is no better way to keep america safe than to mow down some women at the border after telling them to stand down as they try to climb through a barricade. 

Legal. Safe. Effective. Proven. 

 

Murder is not legal.  HTH

[jonnyutah 271]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

Murder is not legal.  HTH

Of course it is.

State sanctioned murder of black people happening everyday due to institutionalized racism! The horror. 

The genocide of the palestinian people is US govt sanctioned murder!

Meat is murder! 

I saw seven crows in a row on a fence. The cops dindu nuffin bout it. 

[jonmx 2,425]

Government abuse power when they are out in charge of energy

Government abuse power when they are out in charge of food

Government abuse power when they are out in charge of Healthcare

Government abuse power when they are out in charge of food

Government abuse power when they are out in charge of technology.

The very last thing we ever want to do is give government the power to indiscriminately kill people in the name of defending people

Our government is a lot more corrupt and evil than people realize and it is going to get a lot worse over the next decade unless we strip it's unchecked authority away. 

 

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

13 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Again- the issue of a small town being swarmed by migrants would have been ignored if Trump said some politician-speak like "the number of migrants in Springfield is concerning."

Jerry there are two ways to handle this:

1.) Here are the issues in small towns across America related to illegal immigration. Take a town like Springfield, Ohio where the number of illegal immigrants is up and it is causing......"

2.) ""In Springfield, they are eating the dogs. The people that came in, they are eating the cats. They’re eating – they are eating the pets of the people that live there."

 

Number 1 might be boring but the story is illegal immigration and the impact it has on middle and small town America. Number 2 makes the speaker look like a lunatic and makes the comment itself the story and not the situation in the town. The reports are not about a "small town being swarmed"...it's about a Presidential candidate throwing out baseless claims. Plus it has the added effect of having government building and schools shut down for bomb threats and everything...