Discussion of Concerns for Trump Presidency

[OldMaid 2,129]

For the record, Jerry, he doesn’t sound unhinged. You can do better than that.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,906]

12 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

I know my own lawn you creepy stalker

How well do you know it? 

[Maximum Overkill 1,738]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

How well do you know it? 

I know his Wife's lawn and that's well overgrown. 

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

How well do you know it? 

Old maid beat you and was funny.

[jerryskids 6,547]

12 minutes ago, OldMaid said:

For the record, Jerry, he doesn’t sound unhinged. You can do better than that.

I'm not just talking about this thread, but his overall postings since the election throughout this place, including the thread about you not eating your crow.  In that thread I thought he came off weird, like he was looking for an internet fist fight to defend your honor.  I mean, he knows you from here and the Sanctuary, so he should know that you are capable of defending yourself.   

But, I don't want to go too far down this rat hole because I was trying to keep this to serious discussions about the Trump presidency, so feel free to respond if you want, and we can wrap this up.   

[OldMaid 2,129]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

I'm not just talking about this thread, but his overall postings since the election throughout this place, including the thread about you not eating your crow.  In that thread I thought he came off weird, like he was looking for an internet fist fight to defend your honor.  I mean, he knows you from here and the Sanctuary, so he should know that you are capable of defending yourself.   

But, I don't want to go too far down this rat hole because I was trying to keep this to serious discussions about the Trump presidency, so feel free to respond if you want, and we can wrap this up.   

If you say so. I myself was not offended or weirded out by it. I read it as him calling an a-hole an a-hole. Me being involved had little to do with it.

 

[jerryskids 6,547]

1 minute ago, OldMaid said:

If you say so. I myself was not offended or weirded out by it. I read it as him calling an a-hole an a-hole. Me being involved had little to do with it.

 

Well, several of his posts were to me after pointing out that you didn't take your crow very well.  Thanks though! 

 

[OldMaid 2,129]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

Well, several of his posts were to me after pointing out that you didn't take your crow very well.  Thanks though! 

 

That this is your takeaway says it all.

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

42 minutes ago, OldMaid said:

That this is your takeaway says it all.

Jerry would rather go with the personal attacks and bored drama instead of having a serious discussion in his serious discussion thread after I ripped him apart on tariffs.

[seafoam1 2,797]

5 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Jerry would rather go with the personal attacks and bored drama instead of having a serious discussion in his serious discussion thread after I ripped him apart on tariffs.

Liberal meltdown is full on. 

[TimHauck 2,598]

19 hours ago, jerryskids said:

It actually was released the week after the election, technically under Trump, but too late to help Trump win.

There is some good evidence that this is not a coincidence; that a small group orchestrated the delay of the release until after the election.  @TimHauckhas the receipts on this, so I'll let him provide links if he so chooses.  But this is the most obvious example of the 2020 election being "stolen," but for some reason no one talks about it.   

I assume you’re referring to this thread.  To clarify, while I think it can be considered “election interference,” it was not led by a politician, but simply a doctor with a large Twitter following.

 

 

19 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yes. It would not have helped Trump significantly IMO. 

No doubt in my mind Trump wins 2020 if the vaccine was authorized before the election.  As I said in the thread above, centrists knew that the vaccine was the best way out of the pandemic, it absolutely could have changed votes or got more people out to vote for Trump.

Obviously we’ll never know but what I’m curious about is if we still would have had the same claims of the vaccine killing everyone if Trump had won.  Of course it probably wouldn’t have been mandated so that likely reduces some of the backlash, but I wonder if we’d still have idiots like @lod001 and @lickin_starfish blaming it every time someone dies.  I’m sure @RLLD will comment about Democrats changing their tune or something, but in that thread I also posted evidence of how Democrats were always more likely to take the vaccine than Republicans.

[jerryskids 6,547]

12 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I assume you’re referring to this thread.  To clarify, while I think it can be considered “election interference,” it was not led by a politician, but simply a doctor with a large Twitter following.

 

 

No doubt in my mind Trump wins 2020 if the vaccine was authorized before the election.  As I said in the thread above, centrists knew that the vaccine was the best way out of the pandemic, it absolutely could have changed votes or got more people out to vote for Trump.

Obviously we’ll never know but what I’m curious about is if we still would have had the same claims of the vaccine killing everyone if Trump had won.  Of course it probably wouldn’t have been mandated so that likely reduces some of the backlash, but I wonder if we’d still have idiots like @lod001 and @lickin_starfish blaming it every time someone dies.  I’m sure @RLLD will comment about Democrats changing their tune or something, but in that thread I also posted evidence of how Democrats were always more likely to take the vaccine than Republicans.

Yes, thanks!  Tagging @The Phantom's Phantom if he's interested.   

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

Yes, thanks!  Tagging @The Phantom's Phantom if he's interested.   

Thanks for the article.  I skimmed it but the gist is that this Dr topol urged for more efficacy data correct?  He was advocating for safety.

How is that stealing an election?

[BrahmaBulls 628]

15 hours ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Jerry would rather go with the personal attacks and bored drama instead of having a serious discussion in his serious discussion thread after I ripped him apart on tariffs.

I don't think you're unhinged.  I think you're just an a-hole of a person.  All of your posts from several accounts are personal attacks and attempted gotchas.  You're incapable of discussing any subject without being a total d!ck.  It is what it is.

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

39 minutes ago, BrahmaBulls said:

I don't think you're unhinged.  I think you're just an a-hole of a person.  All of your posts from several accounts are personal attacks and attempted gotchas.  You're incapable of discussing any subject without being a total d!ck.  It is what it is.

Nice opinion

[Hardcore troubadour 14,906]

39 minutes ago, BrahmaBulls said:

I don't think you're unhinged.  I think you're just an a-hole of a person.  All of your posts from several accounts are personal attacks and attempted gotchas.  You're incapable of discussing any subject without being a total d!ck.  It is what it is.

And he is a mush. Look at the Giants since he jumped on board. 

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

And he is a mush. Look at the Giants since he jumped on board. 

The Giants won 2 super bowls since I became a fan.

[TimHauck 2,598]

1 hour ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Thanks for the article.  I skimmed it but the gist is that this Dr topol urged for more efficacy data correct?  He was advocating for safety.

How is that stealing an election?

I thought this video at 7:00 did a good job explaining the specifics of why that was likely unnecessary

 

 

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

So the conspiracy theory is the dr didn't care about safety but was just trying to steal the election for Biden?  That's what you want people to believe?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,828]

50 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Nice opinion

And you can't separate "fact" from "opinion". 

[jerryskids 6,547]

29 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

So the conspiracy theory is the dr didn't care about safety but was just trying to steal the election for Biden?  That's what you want people to believe?

I don't know the guy personally.  Perhaps he started with a sincere concern that Trump (who he clearly hated, from the article) was going to push for an unsafe approval.  If so, somewhere along the line he lost his way, and it became about stopping release before the election period.  Both the article and Tim's latest video address this.

Quote

A “choke point”

To stop rush authorization of a vaccine before the election, Topol also began working on another front. The US has poured billions into Operation Warp Speed, which includes funding for a half-dozen trials to study potential covid-19 vaccines. Those trials won’t have efficacy data on the vaccines until late in the year, at the earliest.

But one company—Pfizer—never joined the federal program and has been running ahead of the companies that did. Its CEO, Bourla, had boldly said for months that its study of a genetic vaccine would have early efficacy results in October. If Trump could anoint any vaccine as the winner, it would have to be Pfizer’s. On the other hand, if no company actually applied for authorization before November 3, then no announcement could be made. Pfizer was the “choke point,” Topol believed.

On September 25, Topol joined 60 other experts in sending a letter to Pfizer’s CEO, asking that the company not apply for an EUA before late November, when there would be more safety data. Topol says he also peppered some of Pfizer’s board members with his concerns. The company later reached out to him, arranging an early October Zoom meeting with Kathrin Jansen, its vaccine chief, and her team. Pfizer confirmed the meeting, saying its staff regularly meets with “key opinion leaders.”

Topol's "concerns," as the video points out, had no scientific justification.

 

[jerryskids 6,547]

Also as the video points out, delaying the release by a month as Delta hit possibly caused the lives of tens of thousands of people.  But it's all good, the mean orange man didn't get re-elected.   

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

7 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Also as the video points out, delaying the release by a month as Delta hit possibly caused the lives of tens of thousands of people.  But it's all good, the mean orange man didn't get re-elected.  

Geek club: some guy stole the election by fraudently delaying the vaccine release killing people.

Also geek club: big pharma pushed through a vaccine with no research and no testing killing people.

[jerryskids 6,547]

1 minute ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Magatard: some guy stole the election by fraudently delaying the vaccine release killing people.

Also magatard: big pharma pushed through a vaccine with no research and no testing killing people.

I've never said the latter.

But, thanks for tossing me the gun on this topic.   

[jerryskids 6,547]

Here, let me restate it for you Gutter.  Topol may have started with a sincere concern that Trump might pressure recipients of Warp Speed funding into early approval.  But once he flanked to delaying Pfizer who had not received such funding, he lost the right to invoke "science," and instead made it a political topic. 

HTH

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I've never said the latter.

But, thanks for tossing me the gun on this topic.   

Updated to say geek club.

But I still don't buy the conspiracy theory that this guy stole the election for Trump as you said.  That is quite a stretch.

[TimHauck 2,598]

44 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

So the conspiracy theory is the dr didn't care about safety but was just trying to steal the election for Biden?  That's what you want people to believe?

Probably both, but Pfizer had said all along they were planning to have data by October.

Topol did/does have a serious case of TDS, TBH:

 

 

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Here, let me restate it for you Gutter.  Topol may have started with a sincere concern that Trump might pressure recipients of Warp Speed funding into early approval.  But once he flanked to delaying Pfizer who had not received such funding, he lost the right to invoke "science," and instead made it a political topic. 

HTH

Topol specifically want a delay until late November when more data would be available.  For some reason you think that's a political move.

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Probably both, but Pfizer had said all along they were planning to have data by October.

Topol did/does have a serious case of TDS, TBH:

 

 

Lots of scientists who believe in science and data hate trump for obvious reasons.

Again it's a conspiracy theory.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,906]

8 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Lots of scientists who believe in science and data hate trump for obvious reasons.

Again it's a conspiracy theory.

Thinks as man can become a woman.  Science. ! 

[jerryskids 6,547]

15 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Topol specifically want a delay until late November when more data would be available.  For some reason you think that's a political move.

No, in what I quoted, Topol specifically called Pfizer the "choke point" to prevent release prior to the election.  There was nothing scientific about it.  Go back to Tim's article to see Topol's tweets on this as well.  

Also, I hadn't specifically commented on Topol's TDS, but I appreciate that @TimHauckdid.   

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

22 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

No, in what I quoted, Topol specifically called Pfizer the "choke point" to prevent release prior to the election.  There was nothing scientific about it.  Go back to Tim's article to see Topol's tweets on this as well.  

Also, I hadn't specifically commented on Topol's TDS, but I appreciate that @TimHauckdid.   

One way to look at it is that topol didn't want the vaccine released before election because he hated Trump and wanted to steal the election.

The other way is he was concerned that Trump was trying to push an unsafe vaccine through prior to the election and wanted more safety data released and was looking out for safely.

Of course if you like Trump you believe the former.

[jerryskids 6,547]

7 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

One way to look at it is that topol didn't want the vaccine released before election because he hated Trump and wanted to steal the election.

The other way is he was concerned that Trump was trying to push an unsafe vaccine through prior to the election and wanted more safety data released and was looking out for safely.

Of course if you like Trump you believe the former.

You seem to be intentionally ignoring the Pfizer part in this.  Pfizer had long said they'd have their data in October, and they weren't a recipient of Warp Speed money.  Yet Topol pushed for the delay despite no scientific rationalization, instead calling them the "choke point." 

Please tell me if you understand this, because your post I quoted doesn't indicate that you do.  I don't want to waste my time posting this yet again, so if you just want to remain ignorant, let me know and we can move on.   

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

5 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

You seem to be intentionally ignoring the Pfizer part in this.  Pfizer had long said they'd have their data in October, and they weren't a recipient of Warp Speed money.  Yet Topol pushed for the delay despite no scientific rationalization, instead calling them the "choke point." 

Please tell me if you understand this, because your post I quoted doesn't indicate that you do.  I don't want to waste my time posting this yet again, so if you just want to remain ignorant, let me know and we can move on.   

I understand what you said.  So maybe you don't understand is that safety data is released continuously.  The first batch of data was October and I assume another batch of data was November and it's that data that topol was waiting for.  Get it?

He probably didn't trust the first round and wanted more data.  Or he just has TDS.

[Fnord 2,051]

I have no comment on the Topol subject, doesn't really matter now. I will say that I don't believe Topol's actions credibly had anything to do with Trump losing in 2020. The way he handled Covid throughout 2020 leading up to the election was inept, to put it nicely. That was why he lost, along with a host of other reasons.

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

Also Jerry still thinks the EU and Japan put a 100% tariff on us autos so his covid election conspiracy ideas need to be taken with a grain of salt 

[TimHauck 2,598]

2 hours ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

I understand what you said.  So maybe you don't understand is that safety data is released continuously.  The first batch of data was October and I assume another batch of data was November and it's that data that topol was waiting for.  Get it?

He probably didn't trust the first round and wanted more data.  Or he just has TDS.

No, the endpoint of the trial was when they hit a certain # of events which was projected to be October.  Topol led the charge so that the # of events needed was tripled.

 

On a related note, here is one appointment I could get behind if it happens:

https://twitter.com/txsalth2o/status/1857971294790111496
 

 

[jerryskids 6,547]

2 hours ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

I understand what you said.  So maybe you don't understand is that safety data is released continuously.  The first batch of data was October and I assume another batch of data was November and it's that data that topol was waiting for.  Get it?

He probably didn't trust the first round and wanted more data.  Or he just has TDS.

 

19 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

No, the endpoint of the trial was when they hit a certain # of events which was projected to be October.  Topol led the charge so that the # of events needed was tripled.

 

Exactly.  It was agreed to be 32 events, but Topol pushed at the last minute to get it changed to 96, which as pointed out in your video, was scientifically unnecessary.  And it was only done because Pfizer was going to hit the original target prior to the election (they did).

But hey, it's all about more data, right Gutter?  Maybe they should have waited for 10X the events... maybe 100, 1000, a googolplex?  More data is always better, it wasn't political!   

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

Also here is a fact check article that disputes everything you've said

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/18/fact-check-pfizer-received-covid-vaccine-data-after-election-day/6267242002/

[Maximum Overkill 1,738]

. Sounds like someone has one too many boosters