Republicans are looking to stop welfare and other benefits from going to illegal immigrants paroled into the U.S.

[jbycho 588]

And they are angling to pass it through the budget reconciliation process, bypassing the Senate's 60-vote legislative filibuster.

Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) is introducing the "America First Act" on Wednesday, which would change the requirements outlined in the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act to explicitly exclude people in the country illegally, including those granted asylum, those who are paroled into the country or people being withheld from deportation. 

These individuals would not be eligible to receive welfare benefits, including participation in programs such as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), Medicaid, Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) or certain housing benefits. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mike-lee-looks-halt-welfare-illegals-going-under-biden-key-budget-process

[Cloaca du jour 2,147]

Take away the incentives to come here and fewer will come

[TBayXXXVII 2,482]

Good.

[Tree of Knowledge 1,699]

Common Sense.  

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

Stupid. They’re not here for these benefits and they won’t leave if they don’t get them. But if you remove Medicaid in particular you run the risk of spreading diseases like tuberculosis. Administering a TB shot costs the taxpayer around $25. A developed case of TB cost around $3000 to treat or more. Stupid. 
 

You guys are just not going to accomplish what you think you are. At the end of Trump’s term in 4 years there will be more undocumented immigrants in this country than there are now. Because the cause is not being addressed. 

[jbycho 588]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Stupid. They’re not here for these benefits and they won’t leave if they don’t get them. 

Awesome. You support the Republican's brilliant move here.

 

[squistion 1,947]

2 hours ago, jbycho said:

And they are angling to pass it through the budget reconciliation process, bypassing the Senate's 60-vote legislative filibuster.

Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) is introducing the "America First Act" on Wednesday, which would change the requirements outlined in the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act to explicitly exclude people in the country illegally, including those granted asylum, those who are paroled into the country or people being withheld from deportation. 

These individuals would not be eligible to receive welfare benefits, including participation in programs such as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), Medicaid, Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) or certain housing benefits. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mike-lee-looks-halt-welfare-illegals-going-under-biden-key-budget-process

Yes, let's punish the children once they have arrived. That will teach them to come here with their parents. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,930]

 Broke, crime ridden failing schools and homeless in the steeets Chicago has spent over 500 million on migrants and illegals. Squishy and Real Tim want people from another country to be the priority. 

[supermike80 1,803]

1 hour ago, squistion said:

Yes, let's punish the children once they have arrived. That will teach them to come here with their parents. 

Boy you guys just don't get it.  These moves, when made public and repeated over and over..WILL stop people from coming.  They flock here now because the message is they can and will be allowed to stay.  If the message says if you come here, you wont be allowed to stay and oh yeah, we will separate you from family if necessary....its a deterrent.  For the life of me I can't understand what you  guys don't get with that.

That was one of the biggest successes with Trumps immigration policy in 2016 and what he's doing again. he's making it CLEAR you will be sent home.   So some dude in Honduras just might rethink making the trip for nothing.    This is one way to stem the tide.

[supermike80 1,803]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Stupid. They’re not here for these benefits and they won’t leave if they don’t get them. But if you remove Medicaid in particular you run the risk of spreading diseases like tuberculosis. Administering a TB shot costs the taxpayer around $25. A developed case of TB cost around $3000 to treat or more. Stupid. 
 

You guys are just not going to accomplish what you think you are. At the end of Trump’s term in 4 years there will be more undocumented immigrants in this country than there are now. Because the cause is not being addressed. 

Oy.....According to you, we are powerless to fix the immigration problem but instead we should focus on fixing the world's problems.   Idiotic

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

59 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Boy you guys just don't get it.  These moves, when made public and repeated over and over..WILL stop people from coming.  They flock here now because the message is they can and will be allowed to stay.  If the message says if you come here, you wont be allowed to stay and oh yeah, we will separate you from family if necessary....its a deterrent.  For the life of me I can't understand what you  guys don't get with that.

That was one of the biggest successes with Trumps immigration policy in 2016 and what he's doing again. he's making it CLEAR you will be sent home.   So some dude in Honduras just might rethink making the trip for nothing.    This is one way to stem the tide.

I don’t think you understand at all the motivation for people wanting to come here. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

Oy.....According to you, we are powerless to fix the immigration problem but instead we should focus on fixing the world's problems.   Idiotic

To quote Peter Parker: with great power comes great responsibility. We are the leader of the free world. We have been since World War II. We derive a lot of benefits from that position and I don’t think we should surrender it lightly. But yes it gives us certain duties. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,930]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think you understand at all the motivation for people wanting to come here. 

They are still living in hotels and motels.  

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

They are still living in hotels and motels.  

They would live anywhere if it meant living here. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,930]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

They would live anywhere if it meant living here. 

They aren’t paying. 

[supermike80 1,803]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think you understand at all the motivation for people wanting to come here. 

I dont think you understand the deterrent that keeps them home and how well it worked in the past.

You know the line....If we save one life?    Well I am fine with rhetoric, which costs nothing, keeping even ONE illegal out.  

[supermike80 1,803]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

To quote Peter Parker: with great power comes great responsibility. We are the leader of the free world. We have been since World War II. We derive a lot of benefits from that position and I don’t think we should surrender it lightly. But yes it gives us certain duties. 

I think youre missing the point.  If you say we aren't capable to protecting our borders how in the world are we gonna be able to save the world?  It makes no sense dude

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

I dont think you understand the deterrent that keeps them home

I don’t because there literally isn’t any. These folks are already willing to risk their lives, the lives of their families and children, risk separation, imprisonment, torture, death, starvation, all for the slim possibility of being in America- and you think that cutting off welfare benefits is going to deter them? 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

7 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I think youre missing the point.  If you say we aren't capable to protecting our borders how in the world are we gonna be able to save the world?  It makes no sense dude

We are capable of protecting our borders. We’re capable of stopping nearly every undocumented immigrant from coming here if we really want to. We don’t. The price is too high. Everything Trump and the Republicans are doing is for show. The American public thinks they want to do something about this. Truth is they don’t. They want to be told something has been done. 

[Engorgeous George 2,126]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t because there literally isn’t any. These folks are already willing to risk their lives, the lives of their families and children, risk separation, imprisonment, torture, death, starvation, all for the slim possibility of being in America- and you think that cutting off welfare benefits is going to deter them? 

I don't think that will offer much deterrence.  I think what offers more deterrence is those we stop and the border and ship back to where they started from so they can tell others that risking their lives, risking rape and starvation and months of depradation are definately not worth the effort since in the end all that happens is you get sent back.

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I don't think that will offer much deterrence.  I think what offers more deterrence is those we stop and the border and ship back to where they started from so they can tell others that risking their lives, risking rape and starvation and months of depradation are definately not worth the effort since in the end all that happens is you get sent back.

Well the problem with that is what you’re being sent back to. If what you’re currently living in is hell on Earth you’re probably going to risk it anyhow. 
 

 

[Engorgeous George 2,126]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well the problem with that is what you’re being sent back to. If what you’re currently living in is hell on Earth you’re probably going to risk it anyhow. 
 

 

Or maybe they will try another country for their refuge.  Or maybe they will spend all that effort trying to make their country a better place.   Lets find out.

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

30 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Or maybe they will try another country for their refuge.  Or maybe they will spend all that effort trying to make their country a better place.   Lets find out.

Well now we get to the real level of disagreement. I don’t want them to try another country. I want this country to be the refuge. That is, IMO, our whole purpose for being a country in the first place. It’s who we are. 

[jbycho 588]

4 hours ago, squistion said:

Yes, let's punish the children once they have arrived. That will teach them to come here with their parents. 

Sure. Let's be the parents to the world's kids. 

Stupid take by you. 

Give them.nothing other than an escort to the border. Bye bye. 

[MLCKAA 540]

5 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Stupid. They’re not here for these benefits and they won’t leave if they don’t get them. But if you remove Medicaid in particular you run the risk of spreading diseases like tuberculosis. Administering a TB shot costs the taxpayer around $25. A developed case of TB cost around $3000 to treat or more. Stupid. 
 

You guys are just not going to accomplish what you think you are. At the end of Trump’s term in 4 years there will be more undocumented immigrants in this country than there are now. Because the cause is not being addressed. 

The cause, which you previously said is climate change.

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

40 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

The cause, which you previously said is climate change.

Yep

[TBayXXXVII 2,482]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

To quote Peter Parker: with great power comes great responsibility. We are the leader of the free world. We have been since World War II. We derive a lot of benefits from that position and I don’t think we should surrender it lightly. But yes it gives us certain duties. 

Just in case you go to a place with a trivia night, people next to us said Peter Parker to that question, we stole the answer because the correct answer is Uncle Ben... as to who said that.  It was the difference between $10 and $25 off our bill that night.  

[squistion 1,947]

58 minutes ago, jbycho said:

Sure. Let's be the parents to the world's kids. 

Stupid take by you. 

Give them.nothing other than an escort to the border. Bye bye. 

Straw Man argument as I didn't say or suggest that. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

Seems like part of the Trump mandate so let’s do it. I am concerned that it will mean that children within our borders will be denied the most basic necessities of life but it seems like the country is okay with that

[seafoam1 2,799]

4 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Seems like part of the Trump mandate so let’s do it. I am concerned that it will mean that children within our borders will be denied the most basic necessities of life but it seems like the country is okay with that

Illegal children. All good with that.  

 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

Illegal children. 

 

Legal, “illegal,” I’d hate to see kids starving in our own country.

But like I said, that’s what we voted for.

[Engorgeous George 2,126]

17 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well now we get to the real level of disagreement. I don’t want them to try another country. I want this country to be the refuge. That is, IMO, our whole purpose for being a country in the first place. It’s who we are. 

You clearly do not understand the highlighted words.  "is" is a present tense.  "was" is the past tense.  As for "whole" it means entire or sole. 

Being a refuge for citizens of another country, if it were and remains our entire raison d' etre would have been enshrined in our Constitution.  It is not.  Sure, at one time, primarily before we were an independent country of our own, one of the motivations for settlement here, against the better interests of the natives I might add, was as a religious and economic refuge.  That was one of the reasons, but not the primary reason as the primary reason then was exploration for exploitation.  Early on as a country we tolerated or welcomed immigrants as we had space, did not spend government resources on immigrants, and perceived ourselves as weak and in need of a population to maintain our selves as a country least we be conquered by the very State we rebelled against.  You may have heard of their efforts to do so, we named it the War of 1812.  Again, at that time we did not amend our constitution to enshrine being a refuge as our reason for being. The world has changed over the centuries.  You might have heard something about it.  There has been an industrial and then tech revolutions, women can own property now and vote, we no longer enslave Africans physically, we simply economically enslave Uighers.  In this new age persons seek government resources when they come here.  That would be alright by me if government had resources, but they don't, they take their resources confiscatoraly from folks like me.  We cannot be a country if we do not control our membership.  That does not mean cutting off immigration, but it does mean cutting off illegal, uncontrolled immigration.

[seafoam1 2,799]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Legal, “illegal,” I’d hate to see kids starving in our own country.

But like I said, that’s what we voted for.

We get rid of them so they aren't starving "in our own country".  

 

[Nomad99 699]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

To quote Peter Parker: with great power comes great responsibility. We are the leader of the free world. We have been since World War II. We derive a lot of benefits from that position and I don’t think we should surrender it lightly. But yes it gives us certain duties. 

Like taking care of US citizens first.

[Engorgeous George 2,126]

Life boats have a capacity limit.  Those who out of compassion seek to take in more than the capacity end up sinking the boat and killing all on board..

[seafoam1 2,799]

4 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Life boats have a capacity limit.  Those who out of compassion seek to take in more than the capacity end up sinking the boat and killing all on board..

Kate Winslet understands to limit the load. Poor Leo. 

[squistion 1,947]

17 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Seems like part of the Trump mandate so let’s do it. I am concerned that it will mean that children within our borders will be denied the most basic necessities of life but it seems like the country is okay with that

I don't know about the country but most of this forum seeks OK with it.

Under Trump's last family separtion policy you had screaming toddlers literally being pulled from their mother's arms. And children that young don't understand what is going on and such a separation can result in lifelong mental health issues.

If you want to deport the entire family that is here illegally, fine, do it, but don't punish the kids by separating them from their parents causing emotional trauma they may never recover from. 

[The Real timschochet 6,411]

31 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

You clearly do not understand the highlighted words.  "is" is a present tense.  "was" is the past tense.  As for "whole" it means entire or sole. 

Being a refuge for citizens of another country, if it were and remains our entire raison d' etre would have been enshrined in our Constitution.  It is not.  Sure, at one time, primarily before we were an independant country of our own, one of the motivations for settlement here, against the better interests of the natives I might add, was as a religious and economic refuge.  That was one of the reasons, but not the primary reason as the primary reason then was exploration for exploitation.  Early on as a country we tolerated or welcomed immigrants as we had space, did not spend government resources on immigrants, and percieved ourselves as weak and in need of a population to maintain our selves as a country least we be conquered by the very State we rebelled against.  You may have heard of their efforts to do so, we named tn the War of 1812.  Agaion, at that time we did not amend our constitution to enshrine being a refuge as our reason for being. The world has changed over the centuries.  You might have heard something about it.  There has been an industrial and then tech revolutions, women can own property now and vote, we no longer enslave Africans physically, we simply economically enslave Uighers.  In this new age persons seek government resources when they come here.  That would be alright by me if government had resources, but they don't, they take their resources confiscatoriy from folks like me.  We cannot be a country if we do not control our membership.  Tht doees not mean cutting off immigration, but it does mean cutting off illegal, uncontrolled immigration.

You tend to be pretty patronizing in your responses. I’ve been accused of that as well so I am mindful of it, both for myself and others. 
I am very well aware of the history that you mentioned. I have quite a different interpretation of it than you do. Rather than go into detail on our differences, let me make a few points and then I’m done: 

1. There has always been what you call “illegal immigration” to this country. It has never, in our entire history, been fully controlled. The level of it has been almost wholly a result of outside factors and not our own actions and that will likely continue to be the case no matter what we do. 
 

2. If we ever have a time where there is no or extremely little undocumented immigration, that will very likely mean we are suffering from some grave economic calamity here. I hope not to see it. Typically the larger number of undocumented immigrants, the more prosperous our society is. 
 

3. In your most recent post you compared us to a lifeboat. That is not and has never been a valid analogy for the United States. We have never not had enough room to absorb everyone who comes here both with legal papers and without. In fact it’s not even a close question. 
 

I am leaving for Europe so if I you have a response or question I won’t be able to reply for a few weeks. I do enjoy our conversations/ debates on these issues. Wishing you and your family happy holidays. 

[seafoam1 2,799]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You tend to be pretty patronizing in your responses. I’ve been accused of that as well so I am mindful of it, both for myself and others. 
I am very well aware of the history that you mentioned. I have quite a different interpretation of it than you do. Rather than go into detail on our differences, let me make a few points and then I’m done: 

1. There has always been what you call “illegal immigration” to this country. It has never, in our entire history, been fully controlled. The level of it has been almost wholly a result of outside factors and not our own actions and that will likely continue to be the case no matter what we do. 
 

2. If we ever have a time where there is no or extremely little undocumented immigration, that will very likely mean we are suffering from some grave economic calamity here. I hope not to see it. Typically the larger number of undocumented immigrants, the more prosperous our society is. 
 

3. In your most recent post you compared us to a lifeboat. That is not and has never been a valid analogy for the United States. We have never not had enough room to absorb everyone who comes here both with legal papers and without. In fact it’s not even a close question. 
 

I am leaving for Europe so if I you have a response or question I won’t be able to reply for a few weeks. I do enjoy our conversations/ debates on these issues. Wishing you and your family happy holidays. 

Let me help you out.

No money or benefits for illegals. Other than a free trip to the border. 

Go Trump!! 

[TBayXXXVII 2,482]

52 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Seems like part of the Trump mandate so let’s do it. I am concerned that it will mean that children within our borders will be denied the most basic necessities of life but it seems like the country is okay with that

I think what will happen is that the liberal states will either 1) help Trump round up and deport the illegal immigrants or 2) they use their own welfare funds to foot the whole bill instead of getting the bulk of it from the federal government.  I mean, this promotes states rights.  If the states want them, they can have them... they just have to pay for them.  At that point, the citizens of the state have 3 options... 1) accept that your taxes will sky rocket, 2) move to a Republican state, or 3) vote for Republican's to stop your tax increases.