Horseman 2,375 Posted February 21 Pretend CFOs are worthless. I have to think WMT is a good buy around $90. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,469 Posted February 21 2 hours ago, RLLD said: Because.....tariffs are NOT.....a direct cause of inflation...... the things I listed ARE direct causes of inflation This is important. When someone on CNN or in government tries to sell you that tariffs have an outsized influence on inflation, they are trying to manipulate you, and you need to know that. Tell you what, show me any example in history where tariffs were adjusted to influence inflation, just one...... I don’t know what to tell you. I suppose, to be quite exact I should argue that, per economists, tariffs raise prices for consumers, which is not precisely the same as inflation. (This may be where you’re getting your argument.) But the net effect is the same. It might be simpler, and more exact, to say that tariffs cause economic misery. The amount of the misery is always tied to the amount of the tariffs. Trump’s current tariffs are the largest for this country since Smoot-Harley, which most economists believe brought on the Great Depression. Those are the facts, the rest is up to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,145 Posted February 21 42 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: I don’t know what to tell you. I suppose, to be quite exact I should argue that, per economists, tariffs raise prices for consumers, which is not precisely the same as inflation. (This may be where you’re getting your argument.) But the net effect is the same. It might be simpler, and more exact, to say that tariffs cause economic misery. The amount of the misery is always tied to the amount of the tariffs. Trump’s current tariffs are the largest for this country since Smoot-Harley, which most economists believe brought on the Great Depression. Those are the facts, the rest is up to you. Look, what i am trying to convey here is that the tariffs to inflation gambit is a Democrat fabricated and media puppeted propaganda pursuit. Once again, they are lying to you. I want you t know this, because this is a repeatable process. They lie, I call it a lie, you defend them, and then weeks or months later....they admit the lie....and I go find you to use it as an example......over.....and over.... Here is another lie from them....wanna guess what I might do a few months from now when they can no longer lie about it? I will again.....bring this conversation up and beg you to stop believing their lies..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrailGuy 552 Posted February 21 10 minutes ago, RLLD said: Look, what i am trying to convey here is that the tariffs to inflation gambit is a Democrat fabricated and media puppeted propaganda pursuit. No it's not. It's an apolitical economic theory supported by data. Not an absolute but tariffs usually increase inflation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,145 Posted February 21 10 minutes ago, TrailGuy said: No it's not. It's an apolitical economic theory supported by data. Not an absolute but tariffs usually increase inflation. Yes it is. And I have no doubt the Republicans would try to do the same if the roles were reversed. As I have stated repeatedly, inflation is not a univariate outcome. But is DOES have an order of magnitude hierarchy of influence, and tariffs do not crack the top 20. They are lying to you to scare you, to get you riled up about something that is so insignificant as to be almost impossible to ever measure. That is why......get this....no one in recorded history has EVER FOCKING CHANGES TARIFFS TO INFLUENCE INFLATION.....because it wont focking work....jesus..... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrailGuy 552 Posted February 21 35 minutes ago, RLLD said: Yes it is. And I have no doubt the Republicans would try to do the same if the roles were reversed. As I have stated repeatedly, inflation is not a univariate outcome. But is DOES have an order of magnitude hierarchy of influence, and tariffs do not crack the top 20. They are lying to you to scare you, to get you riled up about something that is so insignificant as to be almost impossible to ever measure. That is why......get this....no one in recorded history has EVER FOCKING CHANGES TARIFFS TO INFLUENCE INFLATION.....because it wont focking work....jesus..... So you're saying we shouldn't be scared about inflation or the economy? I shouldn't be feeling the way I'm feeling? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EternalShinyAndChrome 3,856 Posted February 21 Anyone remember the time that Trump took office and was immediately blamed for inflation, not even 3 weeks into his administration? But when Biden took office in 2021, they blamed the previous Trump administration for inflation? Yeah, me too. What a hoot 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,145 Posted February 21 22 minutes ago, TrailGuy said: So you're saying we shouldn't be scared about inflation or the economy? I shouldn't be feeling the way I'm feeling? Not saying that at all. We have had inflation, it was fed by key mistakes that we already know feed inflation. By way of example, if Trump were to come out and say he was going to end the oil industry.....we would face inflationary evidence within 90 days....that is the standard period of energy-related emergence of inflationary influence. That is relatively fast. As soon as you threaten that sector, they start baking it into the costs....now....energy is not just the gas pump, it is literally every product we would every buy.....it is not specific components....its its us in every way.....so it would be stupid to....as Biden did....threaten that area.... It would also be stupid to print money and shove it into the economy.....another mistake that has a large footprint. The time to fear inflation was when Biden was throwing gasoline on the fire. It is not that inflation is happening..."now" it is that it happens..... because it is always happening....what you do not do....is what Biden did....inflame it..... Now to his credit, Biden understood that tariffs were a net good, and of all the many things Trump did that he ripped out....tariffs were not one of them....because they are not a problem, they are a revenue generator. So.....if you hear tariffs, they are a powerful weapon....that our adversaries will respect, and hurt them much more than us.....but in terms of the inflationary influence you could say they are a contributor and be right....but you would have to then pretend that something of say .01% influence, was somehow dangerous....and that would not be smart. But one thing liberals do, is foment fear..... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrailGuy 552 Posted February 21 https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/21/economy/us-economy-trump https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/21/economy/consumer-sentiment-inflation-tariffs On the campaign trail, President Donald Trump vowed repeatedly that he’d bring prices down “starting on Day One” if elected. It’s been a month since he took office and he has yet to deliver. Consumer prices rose 0.5% last month compared to December — the fastest monthly increase in prices since August 2023, according to Consumer Price Index data. And it could soon get even worse with wholesale prices remaining elevated, often a precursor to higher consumer prices. Inflation is picking up again and President Donald Trump said this week it’s all his predecessor’s fault. But no matter who Trump blames for inflation, America’s economic mood is now souring — and Trump is getting the heat for it. The University of Michigan’s latest survey, released Friday, showed that US consumer sentiment declined in February for the second consecutive month, according to a final reading, down by a steep 10% from January. That was double the decline initially reported earlier this month. It’s a stunning about-face after American consumers and businesses grew hopeful (briefly) about the economy’s future following Trump’s election in November. The latest decline in consumer sentiment was driven by worries over Trump’s tariffs potentially jacking up prices. A new CNN poll released Thursday similarly showed pessimism on the rise because of prices: Nearly two thirds of US adults nationwide, 62%, said they feel Trump’s isn’t doing enough to address inflation. The Michigan survey showed that Americans are now fearful of higher inflation on the horizon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,469 Posted February 21 1 hour ago, RLLD said: Look, what i am trying to convey here is that the tariffs to inflation gambit is a Democrat fabricated and media puppeted propaganda pursuit. Once again, they are lying to you. I want you t know this, because this is a repeatable process. They lie, I call it a lie, you defend them, and then weeks or months later....they admit the lie....and I go find you to use it as an example......over.....and over.... Here is another lie from them....wanna guess what I might do a few months from now when they can no longer lie about it? I will again.....bring this conversation up and beg you to stop believing their lies..... You seem to be ignoring the fact, which I’ve now repeated several times, that I don’t get my views on tariffs from the MSM. It happens that they seem to agree with me and with most economists. I already told you that my views on tariffs are core convictions of mine, have been for 35 years, and I told you exactly where I got them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,145 Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: You seem to be ignoring the fact, which I’ve now repeated several times, that I don’t get my views on tariffs from the MSM. It happens that they seem to agree with me and with most economists. I already told you that my views on tariffs are core convictions of mine, have been for 35 years, and I told you exactly where I got them. Fantastic. I should be easy for you to then produce an example, from any time, where tariffs were adjusted....to fight inflation....right? I mean, they are so influential on inflation that we obviously used them to fend it off. You can of course look, but you will not find any such example. because tweaking tariffs has no tangible influence on inflation. The economy is too big for tariffs to move the needle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrailGuy 552 Posted February 21 6 minutes ago, RLLD said: Fantastic. I should be easy for you to then produce an example, from any time, where tariffs were adjusted....to fight inflation....right? I mean, they are so influential on inflation that we obviously used them to fend it off. You can of course look, but you will not find any such example. because tweaking tariffs has no tangible influence on inflation. The economy is too big for tariffs to move the needle. Yes, countries have lifted or reduced tariffs as a strategy to combat inflation. Tariffs increase the cost of imported goods, which can contribute to higher overall prices. By removing or lowering tariffs, governments aim to reduce costs for businesses and consumers, potentially easing inflationary pressures. Historical Examples: United States (1970s & 2022) In the 1970s, the U.S. reduced some trade restrictions to address inflation, particularly during the oil crisis. In 2022, during a period of high inflation, there were discussions about rolling back tariffs imposed on Chinese goods under the Trump administration. While the Biden administration did remove some duties, it did not fully lift them. Argentina (1990s) Facing hyperinflation, Argentina reduced import tariffs and trade barriers as part of its broader economic stabilization plan. This was coupled with currency reforms. United Kingdom (1846 – Corn Laws Repeal) The UK repealed the Corn Laws, which were tariffs on grain imports, to lower food prices and address economic instability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLCKAA 547 Posted February 21 2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: . Trump’s current tariffs are the largest for this country since Smoot-Harley, which most economists believe brought on the Great Depression. Tariffs played a quite small role in causing the Great Depression. It is not in any way a consensus that most economists believe tariffs “brought on the Great Depression.” It is one of the least significant factors, paling timidly compared to much greater and more widely accepted causes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zsasz 362 Posted February 21 26 minutes ago, TrailGuy said: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/21/economy/us-economy-trump https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/21/economy/consumer-sentiment-inflation-tariffs On the campaign trail, President Donald Trump vowed repeatedly that he’d bring prices down “starting on Day One” if elected. It’s been a month since he took office and he has yet to deliver. Consumer prices rose 0.5% last month compared to December — the fastest monthly increase in prices since August 2023, according to Consumer Price Index data. And it could soon get even worse with wholesale prices remaining elevated, often a precursor to higher consumer prices. Inflation is picking up again and President Donald Trump said this week it’s all his predecessor’s fault. But no matter who Trump blames for inflation, America’s economic mood is now souring — and Trump is getting the heat for it. The University of Michigan’s latest survey, released Friday, showed that US consumer sentiment declined in February for the second consecutive month, according to a final reading, down by a steep 10% from January. That was double the decline initially reported earlier this month. It’s a stunning about-face after American consumers and businesses grew hopeful (briefly) about the economy’s future following Trump’s election in November. The latest decline in consumer sentiment was driven by worries over Trump’s tariffs potentially jacking up prices. A new CNN poll released Thursday similarly showed pessimism on the rise because of prices: Nearly two thirds of US adults nationwide, 62%, said they feel Trump’s isn’t doing enough to address inflation. The Michigan survey showed that Americans are now fearful of higher inflation on the horizon. I'd imagine that almost 2% of the entire workforce all of a sudden not having any faith that they're going to have a job tomorrow also plays into this economic uncertainty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,145 Posted February 21 Just now, TrailGuy said: Yes, countries have lifted or reduced tariffs as a strategy to combat inflation. Tariffs increase the cost of imported goods, which can contribute to higher overall prices. By removing or lowering tariffs, governments aim to reduce costs for businesses and consumers, potentially easing inflationary pressures. Historical Examples: United States (1970s & 2022) In the 1970s, the U.S. reduced some trade restrictions to address inflation, particularly during the oil crisis. In 2022, during a period of high inflation, there were discussions about rolling back tariffs imposed on Chinese goods under the Trump administration. While the Biden administration did remove some duties, it did not fully lift them. Argentina (1990s) Facing hyperinflation, Argentina reduced import tariffs and trade barriers as part of its broader economic stabilization plan. This was coupled with currency reforms. United Kingdom (1846 – Corn Laws Repeal) The UK repealed the Corn Laws, which were tariffs on grain imports, to lower food prices and address economic instability. Sweet jesus, you just proved my point!!! Thank you. 1970's.....focking energy, no sh!t eh? How about that.... And there were discussion by Biden to adjust tariffs in 2022....which of course they did NOT do, because they realize that would be focking stupid....so, good on them for that... You sure.....you wanna trot out Argentina...as your proof for economic improvements through tariffs? Clearly you did not research that ... if you had you would know that their actions may have included tariffs, but that was not the solution....they implemented the Convertibility Plan, which provided a hard currency anchor. Trade liberalization was a complementary effort that increased competition and helped lower domestic prices. Did it work? Lets see....while tariff reductions potentially helped curb inflation and modernize the economy, it also led to increased imports and a decline in domestic manufacturing competitiveness. By the late 1990s, Argentina was dogged by rising unemployment and external debt problems related to those reductions in tariffs....raising the tarifs was a better solution, but they only figured that out AFTER they focked it up all it did was lead to a deep recession and a sovereign debt default. Hey, lets absolutely talk about an 1846 economic action in an agrarian society as your proof, by all means.... The immediate effect on inflation was minimal because it was a focking stupid idea. Additionally, global grain markets remained volatile due to the famine, which kept food prices high in the short run. Now you could argue that later in the 1850's prices actually lowered....but I will need you to prove that in those ten years nothing else in the economy influenced it...or are you suggesting that we would have to wait 10 years to see inflation from tarrifs? The actual impact was of course not inflation influence....it was an expansion of access to global markers....but dont let that get in the way of your poor misrepresentation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,469 Posted February 21 6 minutes ago, MLCKAA said: Tariffs played a quite small role in causing the Great Depression. It is not in any way a consensus that most economists believe tariffs “brought on the Great Depression.” It is one of the least significant factors, paling timidly compared to much greater and more widely accepted causes. This depends on who you read but I have very firm views on this based on the majority of economists I have read. The CATO Institute, a libertarian think tank, has a good summary: https://www.cato.org/blog/smoot-hawley-tariff-great-depression Basically the 1929 Wall Street Crash brought about an economic downturn. But the world would have recovered from that, and quickly, if not for Smoot-Hawley and the trade war that it caused. (This leads to another point that @RLLD ignores: tariffs almost always lead to retaliatory tariffs which leads to trade wars and economic disaster.) The trade war is what caused all the bank failures of 1932-33, which led to the New Deal over here and the Third Reich in Germany. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,469 Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, RLLD said: Sweet jesus, you just proved my point!!! Thank you. 1970's.....focking energy, no sh!t eh? How about that.... And there were discussion by Biden to adjust tariffs in 2022....which of course they did NOT do, because they realize that would be focking stupid....so, good on them for that... You sure.....you wanna trot out Argentina...as your proof for economic improvements through tariffs? Clearly you did not research that ... if you had you would know that their actions may have included tariffs, but that was not the solution....they implemented the Convertibility Plan, which provided a hard currency anchor. Trade liberalization was a complementary effort that increased competition and helped lower domestic prices. Did it work? Lets see....while tariff reductions potentially helped curb inflation and modernize the economy, it also led to increased imports and a decline in domestic manufacturing competitiveness. By the late 1990s, Argentina was dogged by rising unemployment and external debt problems related to those reductions in tariffs....raising the tarifs was a better solution, but they only figured that out AFTER they focked it up all it did was lead to a deep recession and a sovereign debt default. Hey, lets absolutely talk about an 1846 economic action in an agrarian society as your proof, by all means.... The immediate effect on inflation was minimal because it was a focking stupid idea. Additionally, global grain markets remained volatile due to the famine, which kept food prices high in the short run. Now you could argue that later in the 1850's prices actually lowered....but I will need you to prove that in those ten years nothing else in the economy influenced it...or are you suggesting that we would have to wait 10 years to see inflation from tarrifs? The actual impact was of course not inflation influence....it was an expansion of access to global markers....but dont let that get in the way of your poor misrepresentation Your entire argument seems to be missing the point. We are not discussing lowering existing tariffs (though I wish we were). We are talking about putting up new, much larger draconian tariffs. That is what Trump is doing. If you’re going to defend that then please explain how it benefits us in any way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,375 Posted February 21 6 minutes ago, RLLD said: Sweet jesus, you just proved my point!!! Thank you. 1970's.....focking energy, no sh!t eh? How about that.... And there were discussion by Biden to adjust tariffs in 2022....which of course they did NOT do, because they realize that would be focking stupid....so, good on them for that... You sure.....you wanna trot out Argentina...as your proof for economic improvements through tariffs? Clearly you did not research that ... if you had you would know that their actions may have included tariffs, but that was not the solution....they implemented the Convertibility Plan, which provided a hard currency anchor. Trade liberalization was a complementary effort that increased competition and helped lower domestic prices. Did it work? Lets see....while tariff reductions potentially helped curb inflation and modernize the economy, it also led to increased imports and a decline in domestic manufacturing competitiveness. By the late 1990s, Argentina was dogged by rising unemployment and external debt problems related to those reductions in tariffs....raising the tarifs was a better solution, but they only figured that out AFTER they focked it up all it did was lead to a deep recession and a sovereign debt default. Hey, lets absolutely talk about an 1846 economic action in an agrarian society as your proof, by all means.... The immediate effect on inflation was minimal because it was a focking stupid idea. Additionally, global grain markets remained volatile due to the famine, which kept food prices high in the short run. Now you could argue that later in the 1850's prices actually lowered....but I will need you to prove that in those ten years nothing else in the economy influenced it...or are you suggesting that we would have to wait 10 years to see inflation from tarrifs? The actual impact was of course not inflation influence....it was an expansion of access to global markers....but dont let that get in the way of your poor misrepresentation . TKO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,145 Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: This depends on who you read but I have very firm views on this based on the majority of economists I have read. The CATO Institute, a libertarian think tank, has a good summary: https://www.cato.org/blog/smoot-hawley-tariff-great-depression Basically the 1929 Wall Street Crash brought about an economic downturn. But the world would have recovered from that, and quickly, if not for Smoot-Hawley and the trade war that it caused. (This leads to another point that @RLLD ignores: tariffs almost always lead to retaliatory tariffs which leads to trade wars and economic disaster.) The trade war is what caused all the bank failres of 1932-33, which led to the New Deal over here and the Third Reich in Germany. I do not ignore it, instead I note that it hurts other more than us. They have to accept a much higher level of hurt. We can handle it better than they. So if they want to fock around, they will find out. And if you are a politician abroad, you might find that you lose favor so fast....you dare not test us. Rather than leverage the strategy of threatening with our military, we need to once again possess the ability to influence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,145 Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Your entire argument seems to be missing the point. We are not discussing lowering existing tariffs (though I wish we were). We are talking about putting up new, much larger draconian tariffs. That is what Trump is doing. If you’re going to defend that then please explain how it benefits us in any way. I have already spoken to that point. And my position remains. Tariffs are but a small part of a much larger equation and economy, If you want to believe that raising tariffs is some sort of inflationary act we should care about, that is fine....but the truth is that while you can argue that they might have an influence...its perhaps .01% influence....it is not what CNN...MSDNC...or the rest are trying to sell you. They are selling you fear about something that does not exist....not unlike when they called Trump huitler...or authoritarian or any of those other lies... The MAIN influence from tariffs is a profound enhancement of revenue generation, those costs are not passed along to the consumer in the way they are telling you. They are lying..to you...again....and later, when they admit they were lying, i will again....come to you and ask why you keep believing them.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,469 Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, RLLD said: I do not ignore it, instead I note that it hurts other more than us. They have to accept a much higher level of hurt. We can handle it better than they. So if they want to fock around, they will find out. And if you are a politician abroad, you might find that you lose favor so fast....you dare not test us. Rather than leverage the strategy of threatening with our military, we need to once again possess the ability to influence. Sorry but your argument is insane! I don’t give a Fock if the other guy suffers ten times as much as I do if I suffer as well. I don’t want to suffer! I gain nothing by suffering. The other flaw in what you wrote is that we have a competing country, China, who can see to it that the other countries don’t suffer at all. We put up a tariff and they’re happy to make a deal with the country we’re trying to punish. It’s already happening with soybeans and other products. It’s exasperating to me that you and others can’t see how dumb this is, how asinine, how it’s going to fock us over. Sure an idiot like @Horseman’s ass cheers it on because he’s a moron who loves anything Trump does. But frankly I expected more from you. I think you’re wrong a lot but at least you try to work things out with logic. There’s no logic here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,375 Posted February 21 5 hours ago, Cloaca du jour said: I have to ask...other than the egg prices at whole foods or in liberal sh1thole cities...I haven't noticed any increase in grocery prices. Gas still at 2.80gal. Eggs regular size are under 3. .I really think this is all liberal make believe and media control. I hear the screams but I am not seeing it. Usually from the left. Just bought a 10lb of ground chuck way better flavor than ground beef...30 dollars from local butcher. Bold is a lot of it. $2.60 gas $3.99 hamburger $3.00 gal milk 30 pack of beer for $18.00 All the free plastic bags you want. Egg prices are a bit high though at $6.00, no big deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,145 Posted February 21 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: Sorry but your argument is insane! I don’t give a Fock if the other guy suffers ten times as much as I do if I suffer as well. I don’t want to suffer! I gain nothing by suffering. The other flaw in what you wrote is that we have a competing country, China, who can see to it that the other countries don’t suffer at all. We put up a tariff and they’re happy to make a deal with the country we’re trying to punish. It’s already happening with soybeans and other products. It’s exasperating to me that you and others can’t see how dumb this is, how asinine, how it’s going to fock us over. Sure an idiot like @Horseman’s ass cheers it on because he’s a moron who loves anything Trump does. But frankly I expected more from you. I think you’re wrong a lot but at least you try to work things out with logic. There’s no logic here. You should care. Rather than putting troops in harms way, and having people die, we should be solving our issues in non-combative ways. This nation has lost its ability to influence and we need to restore that ability, Tariffs represent a way for us to influence, secure positive outcomes, with minimal harm domestically. That you fail to see the genius in this move is understandable. I do not see many people who really grasp global geo economic strategies. I have the fortune of having worked for a global company and experience in this area. YOU....can be forgiven, but Democrat leaders....cannot. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,375 Posted February 21 8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Sorry but your argument is insane! I don’t give a Fock if the other guy suffers ten times as much as I do if I suffer as well. I don’t want to suffer! I gain nothing by suffering. The other flaw in what you wrote is that we have a competing country, China, who can see to it that the other countries don’t suffer at all. We put up a tariff and they’re happy to make a deal with the country we’re trying to punish. It’s already happening with soybeans and other products. It’s exasperating to me that you and others can’t see how dumb this is, how asinine, how it’s going to fock us over. Sure an idiot like @Horseman’s ass cheers it on because he’s a moron who loves anything Trump does. But frankly I expected more from you. I think you’re wrong a lot but at least you try to work things out with logic. There’s no logic here. . This fokstick won't pay $100 more every 10 years when he needs a new dishwasher even when doing so puts a hurt on China. He's embodies everything that is wrong with America. Pathetic garbage human. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLCKAA 547 Posted February 21 2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: This depends on who you read but I have very firm views on this based on the majority of economists I have read. The CATO Institute, a libertarian think tank, has a good summary: https://www.cato.org/blog/smoot-hawley-tariff-great-depression Basically the 1929 Wall Street Crash brought about an economic downturn. But the world would have recovered from that, and quickly, if not for Smoot-Hawley and the trade war that it caused. (This leads to another point that @RLLD ignores: tariffs almost always lead to retaliatory tariffs which leads to trade wars and economic disaster.) The trade war is what caused all the bank failures of 1932-33, which led to the New Deal over here and the Third Reich in Germany. Oh my lord. It’s universally agreed that the Treaty of Versailles is what gave rise to the Third Reich. Your sudden outrage over tariffs is interesting, but not enough so that I’ll continue posting about it. Be well. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mufaletta 70 Posted February 21 On 2/20/2025 at 1:30 PM, The Real timschochet said: It is the fear of inflation that caused Walmart to issue dire warnings and caused the Dow to plunge. And yes we already have inflation based on the new tariffs on China and their retaliatory tariffs on us. And it’s only just beginning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloaca du jour 2,147 Posted February 21 8 hours ago, TrailGuy said: chuck isn't beef? If you know...you know...evidently you dont Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,469 Posted February 21 1 hour ago, MLCKAA said: Oh my lord. It’s universally agreed that the Treaty of Versailles is what gave rise to the Third Reich. Your sudden outrage over tariffs is interesting, but not enough so that I’ll continue posting about it. Be well. It’s not sudden. And yes there are all kinds of events that led to the Third Reich, including Versailles, and there’s no universal agreement. But the collapse of Europe’s economy in 1930-32 is generally seen as perhaps the most immediate factor. Versailles created long brewing anger in the German people but it was a simmering anger. In 1928, the Nazis were the smallest party in the Reichstag. In 1930 they were suddenly the largest party. The Depression caused that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,494 Posted February 21 Tim and trail are losers. Have a good weekend everyone else Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,469 Posted February 21 Just now, iam90sbaby said: Tim and trail are losers. Have a good weekend everyone else Well I think YOU are a loser (and a bigot and racist). But I hope you have a good weekend. Because unlike you I try to be pleasant to everyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrailGuy 552 Posted February 22 2 hours ago, Cloaca du jour said: If you know...you know...evidently you dont I grind my own beef boyo. Chuck is fine depending on the cut but often needs a bit more fat for burgers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLCKAA 547 Posted February 22 2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: It’s not sudden. And yes there are all kinds of events that led to the Third Reich, including Versailles, and there’s no universal agreement. But the collapse of Europe’s economy in 1930-32 is generally seen as perhaps the most immediate factor. Versailles created long brewing anger in the German people but it was a simmering anger. In 1928, the Nazis were the smallest party in the Reichstag. In 1930 they were suddenly the largest party. The Depression caused that. If it’s not sudden, then it’s just something you’ve failed to discuss until very recently, despite it apparently being the most important political issue for you. All this time that you posted incessantly about trans and immigration policy violators, tariffs were secretly your bridge too far. Look, you can go ahead with claiming that tariffs created the Nazis if you want to, but you take a major credibility hit by doing so. It’s an excessive reach that’s ultimately no more than a protracted effort to smear Trump and it’s denigrating to everyone who died in WWII, as well as their ancestors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
League Champion 1,896 Posted February 22 15 minutes ago, TrailGuy said: I grind my own beef boyo. We know you do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,469 Posted February 22 Just now, MLCKAA said: If it’s not sudden, then it’s just something you’ve failed to discuss until very recently, despite it apparently being the most important political issue for you. All this time that you posted incessantly about trans and immigration policy violators, tariffs were secretly your bridge too far. Look, you can go ahead with claiming that tariffs created the Nazis if you want to, but you take a major credibility hit by doing so. It’s an excessive reach that’s ultimately no more than a protracted effort to smear Trump and it’s denigrating to everyone who died in WWII, as well as their ancestors. First off, anyone who’s read me off any length of time knows that free trade and tariffs has ALWAYS been a major deal to me. And it’s not separate from my immigration views- they’re tied together. Here is a book by a well known libertarian that explains how: https://www.amazon.com/Case-Free-Trade-Open-Immigration/dp/0964044730 The Case for Free Trade and Open Immigration. You should know that these are libertarian economic views that are linked and part of the Austrian school of economics that I referenced earlier: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_school_of_economics Second, I didn’t create the theory that tariffs in the form of Smoot/Hawley led to World War II. This is not an “excessive” theory to anyone who studies economics and history, it’s very well known and highly popular. Senator Charles Grassley, a Republican, is one of those who shares this view with me: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2019/05/15/chuck-grassley-tariffs-donald-trump-brought-great-depression-hitler-world-war-2-smoot-hawley-trade/3683407002/ It’s not at all denigrating to anyone who died during World War II. I have relatives who were victims of the Holocaust and one who survived the Bataan Death March. I don’t think they would be insulted by this argument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 14,964 Posted February 22 I thought it was free speech that caused the holocaust? That’s what the highly educated woman on tv said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLCKAA 547 Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: First off, anyone who’s read me off any length of time knows that free trade and tariffs has ALWAYS been a major deal to me. And it’s not separate from my immigration views- they’re tied together. Here is a book by a well known libertarian that explains how: https://www.amazon.com/Case-Free-Trade-Open-Immigration/dp/0964044730 The Case for Free Trade and Open Immigration. You should know that these are libertarian economic views that are linked and part of the Austrian school of economics that I referenced earlier: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_school_of_economics Second, I didn’t create the theory that tariffs in the form of Smoot/Hawley led to World War II. This is not an “excessive” theory to anyone who studies economics and history, it’s very well known and highly popular. Senator Charles Grassley, a Republican, is one of those who shares this view with me: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2019/05/15/chuck-grassley-tariffs-donald-trump-brought-great-depression-hitler-world-war-2-smoot-hawley-trade/3683407002/ It’s not at all denigrating to anyone who died during World War II. I have relatives who were victims of the Holocaust and one who survived the Bataan Death March. I don’t think they would be insulted by this argument. You may find theories and postulates of anything in the information age. But the only way to blame tariffs for the rise of Nazis is in an 18 Degrees of Kevin Bacon way. Meaning it would be the consequence of a consequence of a consequence of a consequence of a consequence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,469 Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, MLCKAA said: You may find theories and postulates of anything in the information age. But the only way to blame tariffs for the rise of Nazis is in an 18 Degrees of Kevin Bacon way. Meaning it would be the consequence of a consequence of a consequence of a consequence of a consequence. No no no. I have read MANY books that have discussed this: William L Shirers Rise and Fall of the Third Reich and Collapse of the Third Republic. Paul Johnson’s Modern Times William Manchester’s Last Lion and Glory and the Dream. Robert Leckie’s Delivered from Evil. This is a very popular theory, not a 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbycho 610 Posted February 22 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: No no no. I have read MANY books that have discussed this: William L Shirers Rise and Fall of the Third Reich and Collapse of the Third Republic. Paul Johnson’s Modern Times William Manchester’s Last Lion and Glory and the Dream. Robert Leckie’s Delivered from Evil. This is a very popular theory, not a 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,375 Posted February 22 1 hour ago, TrailGuy said: I grind my own beef boyo. Chuck is fine depending on the cut but often needs a bit more fat for burgers. Chuck is the cut dumbasss. With plenty of fat. HFS. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
