Court Ruling Against the AP

[Patented Phil 1,469]

8 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Well then that's a pretty huge lack of consistency on your part. Nobody, including the AP, is refusing to call it Ft. Bragg or Mt. McKinley. These are things that have been renamed properly because they belong to America. Now we can, and have, criticize these choices. The US doesn't own the Gulf of Mexico. Therefore, nobody, including POTUS, or the Mexican gov't for that matter, can rename it without the consent of all parties involved. This is not a difficult concept.

Nobody “owns” international bodies of water. But the US pays for its protection, and it has more coastline on the Gulf than any other nation.  There are no clear international laws saying that the US can’t change the way it refers to that body of water.

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, TrailGuy said:

The fact that the AP accepts certain things Trump renamed but not the Gulf destroys that argument.

Nope, its further proof of their bias.   Not the first instance either.

[Red White and Blue 81]

3 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

for years libtards have been banning people for not using the "pronouns" of choice

 

What does that have to do with me saying Trump is petty AF?

[TrailGuy 552]

RLLD getting destroyed here 

Thread deletion incoming

[TrailGuy 552]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Nope, its further proof of their bias.   Not the first instance either.

bias of what?  They're not bias of Trump because they accepted his Fort McKinley and Fort Bragg name changes.

[Fnord 2,051]

3 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

The Gulf of Mexico was originally named over 400 years ago, and it did not refer to the nation of Mexico.  I referred to a native American city.  Mexico doesn’t like it they can refer to it as the Gulf of Mexico, along with any other nation.  Mexico already refers to the Rio Grande river differently than we do.

The issue here is that Trump issued a legal executive order to change the name within the United States, and the AP unilaterally decided that they would not follow that legal order.

The AP is an international news org, not an American one. They are not beholden to this standard.

Either way, I don't care about the reasoning. That a POTUS unilaterally sidelined the largest news organization in the world should give people pause. No other president has ever done this. I do not believe for a moment that if Obama or Biden did it to Fox news that you or anyone else here would have supported it, regardless of rationale. I wouldn't have.

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, TrailGuy said:

bias of what?  They're not bias of Trump because they accepted his Fort McKinley and Fort Bragg name changes.

They simply oppose Trump, and they hold far left views that are sometimes even racist.  I have always liked the AP, but in recent years they have fallen down rather abruptly in their journalistic integrity.  But to be fair, there are far worse, like the liars at MSDNC by way of example.

[TrailGuy 552]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

They simply oppose Trump, and they hold far left views that are sometimes even racist.  I have always liked the AP, but in recent years they have fallen down rather abruptly in their journalistic integrity.  But to be fair, there are far worse, like the liars at MSDNC by way of example.

If they simply oppose Trump then why did they accept Trump renaming Fort McKinley and Fort Bragg?

[Fnord 2,051]

6 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

Nobody “owns” international bodies of water. But the US pays for its protection, and it has more coastline on the Gulf than any other nation.  There are no clear international laws saying that the US can’t change the way it refers to that body of water.

Actually, Mexico has more shoreline by nearly 400 miles.

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, TrailGuy said:

If they simply oppose Trump then why did they accept Trump renaming Fort McKinley and Fort Bragg?

They oppose Trump on anything, without real consideration for the impacts.  In this instance, they strayed from their rather consistent stance on renaming.....and then pretended it was "different" with a rather weak excuse, which I will not accept. 

[TrailGuy 552]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

They oppose Trump on anything, without real consideration for the impacts.  In this instance, they strayed from their rather consistent stance on renaming.....and then pretended it was "different" with a rather weak excuse, which I will not accept. 

If they oppose Trump on anything why did they accept Trump renaming Fort McKinley and Fort Bragg?

[Patented Phil 1,469]

7 minutes ago, Fnord said:

The AP is an international news org, not an American one. They are not beholden to this standard.

Either way, I don't care about the reasoning. That a POTUS unilaterally sidelined the largest news organization in the world should give people pause. No other president has ever done this. I do not believe for a moment that if Obama or Biden did it to Fox news that you or anyone else here would have supported it, regardless of rationale. I wouldn't have.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/obama-vs-fox-news-behind-the-white-house-strategy-to-delegitimize-a-news-organization

[RLLD 4,143]

3 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

If they oppose Trump on anything why did they accept Trump renaming Fort McKinley and Fort Bragg?

In what way, did they "accept" the renaming?

[Hardcore troubadour 14,941]

Obama locked up more journalists than anyone since FDR

[TrailGuy 552]

Just now, RLLD said:

In what way, did they "accept" the renaming?

They are now calling Denali "Fort McKinley" and they are also calling Fort Liberty "Fort Bragg"

That is an acceptance of the Trump name changes.

[TrailGuy 552]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Obama locked up more journalists than anyone since FDR

What journalist was locked up? 

[Fnord 2,051]

13 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/obama-vs-fox-news-behind-the-white-house-strategy-to-delegitimize-a-news-organization

I can't read that unless I register with Fox News. I'd rather not do that. My understanding is that Obama "worked around" some Fox journalists, didn't call on them, gave them less "exclusive" access, etc. I will not defend those actions. But he did not revoke any access to Fox that other news outlets traditionally enjoyed. Trump has.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

20 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Actually, Mexico has more shoreline by nearly 400 miles.

Not according to this.

[RLLD 4,143]

17 minutes ago, TrailGuy said:

They are now calling Denali "Fort McKinley" and they are also calling Fort Liberty "Fort Bragg"

That is an acceptance of the Trump name changes.

Well, I have not detected them using those terms in the manner you are ascribing I did read an article where they highlighted opposition to it, and ignored support....so there is that...

[TrailGuy 552]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Well, I have not detected them using those terms in the manner you are ascribing I did read an article where they highlighted opposition to it, and ignored support....so there is that...

2. “The Associated Press will use the name Mount McKinley instead of Denali. The area lies solely in the United States and as president, Trump has the authority to change federal geographical names within the country.

https://www.wcia.com/news/national/ap-the-ap-establishes-style-guidance-on-the-gulf-of-mexico-and-mount-mckinley/

https://apnews.com/article/bragg-base-confederate-rename-a73e96565617830cf3b22c33fc845ab4

You have now detected it.  The AP has accepted Trump Name changes.

[Fnord 2,051]

16 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

Not according to this.

Interesting. I went back to search again and came up with the third different answer numerically, but it was still Mexico.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,839]

6 hours ago, Fnord said:

You don't understand the difference between renaming something that belongs to you vs. something that does not? You're FOS. By this logic, I can rename your child. You are not this dumb, although you do appear to be this partisan. And no, you are not being consistent.

Who named Gulf of Mexico to begin with?

[TrailGuy 552]

2 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Who named Gulf of Mexico to begin with?

[The Girlfriend 208]

6 hours ago, RLLD said:

They oppose Trump on anything, without real consideration for the impacts.  In this instance, they strayed from their rather consistent stance on renaming.....and then pretended it was "different" with a rather weak excuse, which I will not accept.

The actual crux of the argument.

[Voltaire 5,202]

9 hours ago, Red White and Blue said:

For nearly two weeks, the Trump administration has kept AP reporters from covering major events due to the news service's unwillingness to designate the Gulf of Mexico as the Gulf of America, as Trump had decreed in an executive order on his first day in office. 
 

Petty AF.  

That's not the case. They have had access to the press conferences all along, and any other event in the open. Its the Oval Office, where room is precious and the physical space limitations necessitate that only a few outlets have access, that the AP does not have access. Presumably this means they cannot fly on Air Force One either, where space is also limited but I don't know that for sure, just the Oval Office.

[TrailGuy 552]

3 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

That's not the case. They have had access to the press conferences all along, and any other event in the open. Its the Oval Office, where room is precious and the physical space limitations necessitate that only a few outlets have access, that the AP does not have access. Presumably this means they cannot fly on Air Force One either, where space is also limited but I don't know that for sure, just the Oval Office.

You're saying the AP is being excluded due to limited space?

[shorepatrol 1,870]

9 hours ago, TrailGuy said:

 

I guess you just like authoritarianism.

COVID. GFYS 

[Red White and Blue 81]

36 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

That's not the case. They have had access to the press conferences all along, and any other event in the open. Its the Oval Office, where room is precious and the physical space limitations necessitate that only a few outlets have access, that the AP does not have access. Presumably this means they cannot fly on Air Force One either, where space is also limited but I don't know that for sure, just the Oval Office.

All I have to go on is the article. Restricting AP’s access to whatever cause you’re. They won’t rename the Gulf of Mexico is petty AF, and totally on brand for Don. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

12 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Who named Gulf of Mexico to begin with?

Spain, in the 1600's.

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

18 hours ago, Fnord said:

The AP is an international news org, not an American one. They are not beholden to this standard.

Either way, I don't care about the reasoning. That a POTUS unilaterally sidelined the largest news organization in the world should give people pause. No other president has ever done this. I do not believe for a moment that if Obama or Biden did it to Fox news that you or anyone else here would have supported it, regardless of rationale. I wouldn't have.

Ding ding ding! This is the correct answer. 

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

19 hours ago, Fnord said:

Actually, Mexico has more shoreline by nearly 400 miles.

 

18 hours ago, Patented Phil said:

Not according to this.

Cuba has 5,746 km (3,570 mi) of coastline. So maybe we all just compromise and call it that.

Quote

Cuba is an island nation in the Caribbean Sea. It comprises an archipelago of islands centred upon the geographic coordinates 21°3N, 80°00W. Cuba is the principal island, surrounded by four main archipelagos: the Colorados, the Sabana-Camagüey, the Jardines de la Reina and the Canarreos. Cuba's area is 110,860 km2 (42,800 sq mi) including coastal and territorial waters with a land area of 109,820 km2 (42,400 sq mi), which makes it the eighth-largest island country in the world. The main island (Cuba) has 5,746 km (3,570 mi) of coastline and 28.5 km (17.7 mi) of land borders—all figures including the U.S. Navy's Guantanamo Bay Naval Base. Its official area is 109,884 km2 (42,426 sq mi).

 

[edjr 6,578]

Not even March of 2025. November 2028 is a loonggggg time away.

[RLLD 4,143]

21 hours ago, Fnord said:

The AP is an international news org, not an American one. They are not beholden to this standard.

Either way, I don't care about the reasoning. That a POTUS unilaterally sidelined the largest news organization in the world should give people pause. No other president has ever done this. I do not believe for a moment that if Obama or Biden did it to Fox news that you or anyone else here would have supported it, regardless of rationale. I wouldn't have.

They are not sidelined.  They are still able to do most of what they always have.

[Fnord 2,051]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

They are not sidelined.  They are still able to do most of what they always have.

JFC. He limited access to the most powerful office in the world to the largest news gathering org in the world. If a dem president had done this you'd want blood, rightfully. Now you're picking nits with my wording while bltching about Democrats engaging in censorship and praising this admin for transparency. You're off the reservation man. Wake up.

[RLLD 4,143]

10 minutes ago, Fnord said:

JFC. He limited access to the most powerful office in the world to the largest news gathering org in the world. If a dem president had done this you'd want blood, rightfully. Now you're picking nits with my wording while bltching about Democrats engaging in censorship and praising this admin for transparency. You're off the reservation man. Wake up.

Yep, as he is allowed to do.  

They can still be part of most of it, along with the rest, there are some instances where they will not be invited....I did not complain when Biden did it, and I wont complain now.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

Better question - why doesn’t the AP simply abide by the legal Executive Order?

[RLLD 4,143]

2 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

Better question - why doesn’t the AP simply abide by the legal Executive Order?

They still see value in defying him outright. The reason becomes irrelevant, its more about the act.

[squistion 1,952]

11 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Yep, as he is allowed to do.  

They can still be part of most of it, along with the rest, there are some instances where they will not be invited....I did not complain when Biden did it, and I wont complain now.

Biden also did this with the AP?

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, squistion said:

Biden also did this with the AP?

Well, I didnt want to get into the gravity of each, but I guess  it would be true that Biden did worse....

In 2023, the White House modified its criteria for permanent press passes, resulting in over 440 reporters losing their credentials. Interestingly, their excuse at the time was wanting to improve the press process, and the Trump team is using that same explanation.....so that is pretty funny.

Then in May 2023, the New York Post was barred from attending President Biden’s sole public event on a particular day which occurred as federal prosecutors were nearing a decision on potential charges against Hunter Biden.

Journalists at the time did express concerns about the administration’s control over access to officials within cabinet departments and agencies. Press offices often manage interactions, sometimes restricting the ability for journalists to access people....something the Trump people have fully reversed.

 

[TrailGuy 552]

11 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

Better question - why doesn’t the AP simply abide by the legal Executive Order?

The Gulf of Mexico has carried that name for more than 400 years. The Associated Press will refer to it by its original name while acknowledging the new name Trump has chosen. As a global news agency that disseminates news around the world, the AP must ensure that place names and geography are easily recognizable to all audiences.

We can use this language to describe the new designation in text, photo captions, and audio and video scripts: “Trump signed an executive order renaming the Gulf of Mexico as the Gulf of America. The order only carries authority within the U.S. Other countries and international institutions continue to use the name the Gulf of Mexico.”

For now, our maps, graphics and interactives will use Gulf of Mexico. We continue to consult with our product partners on language and labelling.

Per the AP Stylebook, you may also use Gulf or Gulf Coast to describe the body of water along the Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida coasts.

 

There are other examples where the AP refers to a geographical place by more than one name. For example, the Gulf of California is sometimes referred to as the Sea of Cortez. The U.S. government has designated that body of water as the Gulf of California, while Mexico recognizes it as the Sea of Cortez.