Trump wants to deport American Citizens to El Salvador

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

3 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

And were I his attorney I would have made a similar new claim. (Calling it a calrification of the original calim, not an entirely new claim) I would have asserted his lack of command of english, being his non-native language, made nuance difficult.  I would now be asserting that he meant to say that the rival gang to MS-13 had threatened him stating if he is not with us he is agaainst us and must be MS-13.  I would have stated that his only choice then was to join a dangerous gang under coercion or to flee to a safe, democratic country where males are basically not forcibly conscripted into gangs (south america) or worse militias (had he been from Africa).  I nearly posted as much at the time as the evolution of the argument was predictable.

 

Me, I have no way of knowing his affiliations.  I also take no position on this matter other than to say that I do believe in minimal but fundamental due process even for non-citizens.  I believe Americans may have more process due them than do non-citizens, but our Constitution does seem to recognize that humans, as opposed to Citizens, all have some fundamental rights.  Now those fundamental rights are not cognizable by our Courts until and unless those humans get a foothold, even problably an illegal foothold in our country, but once they do they do, in my reading of the law, have some due process rights.  I believe, without looking back on my previous post, that i said more or less the same, that he was entitled to some due process, probably more than an administrative determination by the executive branch.  he ws, at the very lesst, in my opinion, entitled to a review, an appeal of that administrative decision though in Administrative law I do believe that Administrative opinions are entitled to a presumption of regularity. (caveat - it has been over 40 years since I studied Administrative law in Law School so my memory may be less than accurate.)

To your first point, I don't believe this is a new claim or a clarification of a previous claim. The “rival gang” stuff apparently never came out of any court proceeding; it was fabricated either on the internet or from a conservative news site that simply made it up. 
 

To your second point I’m glad you’re on the side of due process. Now what? Since the Trump administration has stated they have no intention of trying to get this guy back, do they deserve to be held in contempt? Do you regard this as a constitutional crisis? 

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

5 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I am patiently awaiting the Trump Administration to hire 10,000 or so new magistrates to work on expedited immigration matters.  It could be a good retirement gig for me.

This was supposed to be part of the immigration bill last year that Trump instructed Republicans to oppose. 

[Engorgeous George 2,121]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

To your first point, I don't believe this is a new claim or a clarification of a previous claim. The “rival gang” stuff apparently never came out of any court proceeding; it was fabricated either on the internet or from a conservative news site that simply made it up. 
 

To your second point I’m glad you’re on the side of due process. Now what? Since the Trump administration has stated they have no intention of trying to get this guy back, do they deserve to be held in contempt? Do you regard this as a constitutional crisis? 

Until i understand, probably through additional litigation, what was meant by "facilitate" I do not believe the Trump Administration should be held in contempt nor do I view this is a Constitutional crisis.  Rather I view it as an opportunity for the Supreme Court to clarify the Constitution, much as it once did in Marbury v. Madison.  Only after clarification and then Executive defiance if it came to that would I consider this a Constitutional crisis.  No, I see this as a teachable moment with likely development worthy of following  

[Engorgeous George 2,121]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

This was supposed to be part of the immigration bill last year that Trump instructed Republicans to oppose. 

Perhaps it was opposed at the time due to a shortage of rubber stamps reading "Appeal Denied, deport Immediately".  until the Magistrates can be properly equiped to do thier jobs their is no sense in firing them.

 

Think of the termporary full employment for lawyers opportunities.  Each Magistrates courtroom would need probably two prosecutors and two State appointed defense attornies.  This could end up employing maybe 50,000 attorneys.  At say $200,000 per year for salaries and benefits that would be 10 billion dollars a year while the program lasted.

 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,906]

How about just telling them they can leave or wait in a detention facility until their court date? They’ll leave. 

[iam90sbaby 2,472]

2 hours ago, squistion said:

From the Twitters:

Donald Trump is testing us. If Congress, the military, and the public do nothing when an innocent man legally in America is deported and imprisoned in a death camp in El Salvador without recourse, what comes next will be so much worse. 

Hell yeah, you’re next bud 

[Tree of Knowledge 1,690]

If only these libs cared as much about a J6 citizen patriot that was falsely incarcerated as they care about an illegally here gang banger sent to prison in his country of origin….

[iam90sbaby 2,472]

1 hour ago, Engorgeous George said:

I am patiently awaiting the Trump Administration to hire 10,000 or so new magistrates to work on expedited immigration matters.  It could be a good retirement gig for me.

I’ll take a pay cut and go do that if we can KOS

[Fnord 2,051]

1 hour ago, Tree of Knowledge said:

If only these libs cared as much about a J6 citizen patriot that was falsely incarcerated as they care about an illegally here gang banger sent to prison in his country of origin….

Your "Patriots" have had their days in court. They received due process. The evidence against them is on much firmer footing than evidence against this guy is (I haven't actually seen any evidence other than "TATTOOS!"). HTH

[Engorgeous George 2,121]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

Your "Patriots" have had their days in court. They received due process. The evidence against them is on much firmer footing than evidence against this guy is (I haven't actually seen any evidence other than "TATTOOS!"). HTH

Tattoos, a nearly permanent record.  Not as permanent as the record administrators in grade school tried to convince me I was fouling up when in 4th grade Art class I drew Kathy McLaughlin with boobs.  She had 'em so I drew them.

[iam90sbaby 2,472]

14 hours ago, Tebok said:

Wow.

 

Constitution has been sh!t on for years and liberals only hide behind it when it’s convenient for them to appear morally superior, they don’t actually care about it. I am completely okay with a transitional dictatorship to bring the constitution back. This will probably be a repeating cycle every 200-300 years. 

[Engorgeous George 2,121]

8 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

I’ll take a pay cut and go do that if we can KOS

If I understand that acronym I would suggest you may have inappropriate temperment for the bench.  

[Fnord 2,051]

5 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Tattoos, a nearly permanent record.  Not as permanent as the record administrators in grade school tried to convince me I was fouling up when in 4th grade Art class I drew Kathy McLaughlin with boobs.  She had 'em so I drew them.

You are truly a renaissance man with impeccable humor. 

[Engorgeous George 2,121]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

You are truly a renaissance man with impeccable humor. 

And an eye for boobs as a youngster.

[Fnord 2,051]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

And an eye for boobs as a youngster.

Is it safe to presume that despite your vision deteriorating that you still do? My eyes (and the rest) have been going to shlt quickly, but somehow I can still spot a good rack from distance. And I ain't talkin about a big buck.

[Engorgeous George 2,121]

Just now, Fnord said:

Is it safe to presume that despite your vision deteriorating that you still do? My eyes (and the rest) have been going to shlt quickly, but somehow I can still spot a good rack from distance. And I ain't talkin about a big buck.

Let's just say I am not as on alert as I was back then.  Now it takes a Sydney Sweeny in harem wear to catch my attention.  Back in the day the tiniest budding drew intense scrutiny.

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

13 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Constitution has been sh!t on for years and liberals only hide behind it when it’s convenient for them to appear morally superior, they don’t actually care about it. I am completely okay with a transitional dictatorship to bring the constitution back. This will probably be a repeating cycle every 200-300 years. 

I wasn’t aware that Ernest Roehm posted here. 

[SaintsInDome2006 374]

15 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

I am completely okay with a transitional dictatorship to bring the constitution back.

This is the old communist trope about how the dictatorship was just transitional.

[Engorgeous George 2,121]

I am waiting for the Trump Administration to handle criminals Running Man style.

[jbycho 579]

5 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is the old communist trope about how the dictatorship was just transitional.

Cool. Too bad for you. 

[jbycho 579]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I wasn’t aware that Ernest Roehm posted here. 

I wasn't aware Popeye's girlfriend Olive Oil posted here. 

[SaintsInDome2006 374]

3 minutes ago, jbycho said:

Cool. Too bad for you. 

Yes, communism generally ends really well for everybody.

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

2 minutes ago, jbycho said:

I wasn't aware Popeye's girlfriend Olive Oil posted here. 

Is this supposed to be an insult? I love Olive Oil. 

[The Real timschochet 6,391]

10 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is the old communist trope about how the dictatorship was just transitional.

Nazis too. Which is why I brought up Ernest. 

[jbycho 579]

1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Yes, communism generally ends really well for everybody.

It never starts when it's all a fantasy in your head. Next up, the Ewoks will be invading. 

[SaintsInDome2006 374]

10 minutes ago, jbycho said:

It never starts when it's all a fantasy in your head.

This is confusing. Fella above says 'hey dictatorship is great!' I've got zero beef with you.

[SaintsInDome2006 374]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Nazis too. Which is why I brought up Ernest. 

Yes I saw that & it was on the mark.

[jbycho 579]

1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Yes I saw that & it was on the mark.

So now we have Nazis here running the show? 

[iam90sbaby 2,472]

33 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I wasn’t aware that Ernest Roehm posted here. 

I knew that yekke comment would piss you off lols

[TimHauck 2,598]

4 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

you can watch the video I posted, which I know you wont cause its not leftist garbage

disprove anything Steven Miller or Tim Pool states in the video

I watched it.  Tim does not provide any evidence other than the comments from Miller that he was MS-13.  In fact at one point Tim even calls him an “alleged” member of MS-13, so thanks for proving Tim agrees that the evidence of him being a gang member is questionable!

As for Miller, all he says is ”Two immigration courts found him to be a member of MS-13.” One judge did, but it was based entirely on a criminal informant who was arrested at the same time and a form filled out by a cop who was later suspended.  And even this judge said that documents presented by the prosecution were “at odds with each other.”

The appeals court did not find him to be a member of MS-13, so Miller was incorrect there.  They noted the previous “allegations” and denied the appeal because they say he did not prove he was not dangerous, but they did not say he was a member of MS-13.  Here is the decision: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.11.2_3.pdf

In addition, Miller’s focus on only the portion of the Supreme Court in their favor is absolutely laughable.  He fails to mention the part about requiring an attempt to facilitate this man’s return.

Lastly, Miller’s quote of “I’d promise you if he was your neighbor you would move right away” is absolutely grotesque, and might be the most racist thing I’ve ever heard a government official say in an official capacity.

Here is a good article without political bias that includes most of the details including some mentioned above:

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13--what-do-we-know

If you prefer video, I don’t like leftist garbage either.  My preferred source is Breaking Points, to hear both sides.  But on this particular issue, even the conservative (Sagaar) acknowledges that this is a terrible look for the Trump admin, and a dangerous slippery slope.  They read from the SC ruling directly, and also provide other examples of conservatives against this move, including multiple time Fox News guest Jonathan Turley who said there is a good defamation case against Miller by the dude who was fired for saying they made a mistake.

 

 

[SaintsInDome2006 374]

49 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

I am completely okay with a transitional dictatorship to bring the constitution back.

 

7 minutes ago, jbycho said:

So now we have Nazis here running the show? 

It's an open question how Baby's comment could be slotted. I was referring to the transitional reference. But sure, maybe it's more Rohm's ilk about consuming the nation to save it.

[iam90sbaby 2,472]

2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

 

This is in response to Tim’s comment: 

“Yes we know. This is in keeping with many of your other views. Do you also enjoy inflicting physical violence on those afraid to fight back? (Women, children, the old, the physically frail). If so, combined with your political views you would make an ideal Brownshirt. Perhaps you should contact Tom Homan; he’s looking to hire guys like you.”

So I told him he’d have made a good yekke

[Hardcore troubadour 14,906]

Imagine thinking gang tatoos have no relevance. What a moron. 

[squistion 1,944]

https://x.com/kylegriffin1/status/1912206803565498693

Attorneys for Kilmar Abrego Garcia said in new a filing that the Trump admin has not even attempted to get the mistakenly deported man returned to the U.S. — despite orders from a federal judge and the Supreme Court.

"The Government's updates do not indicate that any steps have been taken to comply with this Court's and the Supreme Court's orders. There is no evidence that anyone has requested the release of Abrego Garcia."

[The Psychic Observer 495]

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1912190473147384291

He keeps talking about deporting home grown criminals to El Salvador.

[Mike Honcho 5,084]

3 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1912190473147384291

He keeps talking about deporting home grown criminals to El Salvador.

Of course he does, he's getting attention.

[TimHauck 2,598]

Also can we talk about the ridiculous comments from the El Salvador president?  “How am I supposed to smuggle him to the US?!?!?!”

Uh, he’s in your prison (so we think).  Just put him on a plane.

Do we even know if he’s alive?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,236]

30 minutes ago, squistion said:

https://x.com/kylegriffin1/status/1912206803565498693

Attorneys for Kilmar Abrego Garcia said in new a filing that the Trump admin has not even attempted to get the mistakenly deported man returned to the U.S. — despite orders from a federal judge and the Supreme Court.

"The Government's updates do not indicate that any steps have been taken to comply with this Court's and the Supreme Court's orders. There is no evidence that anyone has requested the release of Abrego Garcia."

Because he’s not our focking citizen. You can’t make another country give us their citizens 

[Strike 5,182]

7 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

 

Do we even know if he’s alive?

I have other questions.......

[TimHauck 2,598]

1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Because he’s not our focking citizen. You can’t make another country give us their citizens 

You can ask.  And considering we’re paying them, there’s not really any reason that they’d say no, unless they plan on releasing him.