Israel attacks Iran

[seafoam1 2,913]

43 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Oh nooooz!!!!   What on earth will Trump do?   

He would be so distraught he would probably need to go home and nail his hot wife then go play a couple rounds of golf on his private golf course with some friends. 

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

2003?  You think Iran hasn't been persuing nuclear weapons since 2003?  Just want to make sure I understand you.

No I don’t think it but that’s their official line: 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

The point is that Trump is supposedly hesitating because he wants to see if Iran will give up their nuclear weapons quest. But since Iran pursues them in secret (underground which is why we would end up using the special “bunker buster” missile) I don’t know what would be convincing evidence of this. Trump had already rejected what the intelligence services have told him about this (which is that Iran is still years away.) 

[seafoam1 2,913]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

No I don’t think it but that’s their official line: 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

 wiki is definitely an insider info source in Iran. They have James Bond working for them now. 007. 

[Gepetto 1,341]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

The point is that Trump is supposedly hesitating because he wants to see if Iran will give up their nuclear weapons quest. But since Iran pursues them in secret (underground which is why we would end up using the special “bunker buster” missile) I don’t know what would be convincing evidence of this. Trump had already rejected what the intelligence services have told him about this (which is that Iran is still years away.) 

He wants a deal where independent inspectors have free access to anywhere in Iran they want to look at Iran's work with centrifuges and uranium.

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

The other question is one that I have been asking for about 20 years now with no satisfactory answer: should the President be able to commit the use of force against another nation without the prior consent of Congress? 

[Strike 5,385]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No I don’t think it but that’s their official line: 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

I don't think it's debatable that Iran has been enriching uranium for military use.  And no one believes they haven't done that since 2003.  I don't care what you might read somewhere.  I care about reality.  I'm not sure what your point is.  Trump should take their word for it that they didn't enrich uranium for militsry use when everyone knows they have?  You're not making sense.

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

6 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

He wants a deal where independent inspectors have free access to anywhere in Iran they want to look at Iran's work with centrifuges and uranium.

Wasn’t that part of the Obama deal that Trump killed? And didn’t we have the same deal with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq but we became convinced they were cheating anyhow? 
 

 

[Strike 5,385]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The other question is one that I have been asking for about 20 years now with no satisfactory answer: should the President be able to commit the use of force against another nation without the prior consent of Congress? 

Yes.  It's the law of the land

[Strike 5,385]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Wasn’t that part of the Obama deal that Trump killed? And didn’t we have the same deal with Saddam Hussein’s Iran, but we became convinced they were cheating anyhow? 
 

 

Saddam Hussein ran Iran?

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

Just now, Strike said:

I don't think it's debatable that Iran has been enriching uranium for military use.  And no one believes they haven't done that since 2003.  I don't care what you might read somewhere.  I care about reality.  I'm not sure what your point is.  Trump should take their word for it that they didn't enrich uranium for militsry use when everyone knows they have?  You're not making sense.

The point is Trump is hesitating because he wants Iran to agree to stop this on their own. But how can we take their word for it? Even international inspectors wouldn’t be proof, especially since Iran is such a large country and can hide stuff underground (as they are.) So what’s the point of hoping Iran says they will stop? 

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Saddam Hussein ran Iran?

I meant Iraq but you knew that. 

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Yes.  It's the law of the land

Which law? The last one passed was just after 9/11 for the purposes of defending us from 9/11. It’s a bit of a stretch to claim that bombing Iran is related to that. 
 

 

[Gepetto 1,341]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The point is Trump is hesitating because he wants Iran to agree to stop this on their own. But how can we take their word for it? Even international inspectors wouldn’t be proof, especially since Iran is such a large country and can hide stuff underground (as they are.) So what’s the point of hoping Iran says they will stop? 

Our govt has told the world we know where Iran is working on getting a nuclear bomb built. The place Trump is considering dropping a bunker busting bomb on. Israel has taken out most or all of the other locations or are going to soon.

[jerryskids 6,708]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Wasn’t that part of the Obama deal that Trump killed? And didn’t we have the same deal with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq but we became convinced they were cheating anyhow? 
 

 

Obama's deal allowed them to develop nuclear capabilities, but just for power plants, not weapons.  What a joke; Iran sits on an ocean of oil but they need nuclear reactors.  Must be a climate change thing!   

Trump wants zero nuclear.  Big difference.  And the way it should be.

[seafoam1 2,913]

19 minutes ago, Strike said:

Yes.  It's the law of the land

tim doesn't find the truth to be a "satisfactory answer".  

[Strike 5,385]

14 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The point is Trump is hesitating because he wants Iran to agree to stop this on their own. But how can we take their word for it? Even international inspectors wouldn’t be proof, especially since Iran is such a large country and can hide stuff underground (as they are.) So what’s the point of hoping Iran says they will stop? 

As the guy who fancies himself the educated geopolitical analyst you sure are naive or worse sometimes.  You think we don't know where their facilities are now?  Israel is just randomly picking places to bomb and they're nailing Nuclear development facilities just by luck? 

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

9 minutes ago, Strike said:

As the guy who fancies himself the educated geopolitical analyst you sure are naive or worse sometimes.  You think we don't know where their facilities are now?  Israel is just randomly picking places to bomb and they're nailing Nuclear development facilities just by luck? 

I understand all that. So why is Trump hesitating? 

[seafoam1 2,913]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I understand all that. So why is Trump hesitating? 

This guy thinks he should be included in on all military planning of the US real time. 

"Why are they not calling me?!! " 

[Strike 5,385]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I understand all that. So why is Trump hesitating? 

Why not?  He doesn't have to be in a hurry.  Israel is doing it's thing.  Iran has no answers.  He can sit back and see how things play out and determine if he needs to do something, and when.  Not to mention he's obviously in constant communication with Israel so there could be some strategy happening between the two countries.  It's just like you to think you know what's going on when you aren't privy to all of the information and scenarios those making these important decisions are.  If this were Biden you'd be lauding him for his measured approach to the situation but since it's Trump he must be flying by the seat of his pants without any actual strategy. 

And let's not forget what started this tangent.  It was your comment:

Quote

Is he waiting for Iran to say “OK we abandon it”?  Because they’ve done that all along.

And when called out for a link to support the bolded above, you of course CHANGED your stance to "that's what they say."  ROFLMAO.

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

23 minutes ago, Strike said:

Why not?  He doesn't have to be in a hurry.  Israel is doing it's thing.  Iran has no answers.  He can sit back and see how things play out and determine if he needs to do something, and when.  Not to mention he's obviously in constant communication with Israel so there could be some strategy happening between the two countries.  It's just like you to think you know what's going on when you aren't privy to all of the information and scenarios those making these important decisions are.  If this were Biden you'd be lauding him for his measured approach to the situation but since it's Trump he must be flying by the seat of his pants without any actual strategy. 

And let's not forget what started this tangent.  It was your comment:

And when called out for a link to support the bolded above, you of course CHANGED your stance to "that's what they say."  ROFLMAO.

God sometimes you are so dense. I don’t change a thing. I used the word “say” in both posts. 
 

Trump doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing. As usual you defend him like some slobbering dog. It’s really pathetic. 

[Ron_Artest 1,310]

6 hours ago, Gepetto said:

He wants a deal where independent inspectors have free access to anywhere in Iran they want to look at Iran's work with centrifuges and uranium.

We had that deal and it worked but Trump blew it up.  Thats not what he wants.

[Ron_Artest 1,310]

6 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Obama's deal allowed them to develop nuclear capabilities, but just for power plants, not weapons.  What a joke; Iran sits on an ocean of oil but they need nuclear reactors.  Must be a climate change thing!   

Trump wants zero nuclear.  Big difference.  And the way it should be.

This is mostly false.  While the jcpoa did allow Iran to enrich uranium for nuclear power the limitations were far below what is required for weapons grade and inspectors had access to the program.

Further, in Trump's statement on withdrawal he never mentions that he wants zero nuclear.  He mentions other items like a restriction on missiles, money and a statement that Iran does not want to destroy Israel.  In reality this was mostly trump trying to undo an Obama achievement and get his own in place as he is known to do.  It's what insecure petty twats do.

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-ending-united-states-participation-unacceptable-iran-deal/

[Maximum Overkill 1,894]

55 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

This is mostly false. 

Mostly Peaceful 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,226]

Gutterboy up early with the disinformation.  

[Sean Mooney 1,966]

7 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Obama's deal allowed them to develop nuclear capabilities, but just for power plants, not weapons.  What a joke; Iran sits on an ocean of oil but they need nuclear reactors.  Must be a climate change thing!   

Trump wants zero nuclear.  Big difference.  And the way it should be.

If you were Iran though why would you agree to no "nuclear capabilities" when Israel is sitting on what is believed to be 90 warheads according to a former commissioner of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission?  Iran is in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and Israel is not. 

Years ago the NNPT countries tried to arrange a meeting about eliminating all weapons of mass destruction from the Middle East and Obama said none of it will work if Israel doesn't go along with it, and Israel didn't go along with it.

 

[Ron_Artest 1,310]

Who are countries that can't be trusted with a nuclear weapon?

US?  Only country to use one in war, actually two.  Recent history of invading Afghanistan and Iraq.  Psychopath dictator.

Russia?  Never used one but has threatened and recent history of aggression specifically invasion of Ukraine. Psychopath dictator.

Israel? Recent history of aggression against neighboring states but never used one. Psychopath dictator.

North Korea?  Psychopath dictator.

[seafoam1 2,913]

1 hour ago, Ron_Artest said:

Who are countries that can't be trusted with a nuclear weapon?

US?  Only country to use one in war, actually two.  Recent history of invading Afghanistan and Iraq.  Psychopath dictator.

Russia?  Never used one but has threatened and recent history of aggression specifically invasion of Ukraine. Psychopath dictator.

Israel? Recent history of aggression against neighboring states but never used one. Psychopath dictator.

North Korea?  Psychopath dictator.

Cool. If this is a dictatorship, I'm freaking loving it. Trump is an awesome dictator. 

[TimHauck 2,717]

Ted Cruz: we are carrying out military strikes

https://x.com/ConquestTheory/status/1935306327099584582

 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

I wrote last night that Trump doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing and that is true. He doesn’t think things through, he acts by whim and at the spur of the moment. All true and really scary. 

At the same time it’s not necessarily bad in this particular situation. Sure it would be better if he thought things through and had a plan but he’s probably going to reach the right decision anyhow if the news reports are true: which is either a negotiated solution or a limited air strike that avoids a larger military commitment. 

During his time as President Trump has been consistent about very few things, but one of them is trying to avoid war. This is a commendable attribute IMO. 

[seafoam1 2,913]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I wrote last night that Trump doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing and that is true. 

[Sean Mooney 1,966]

FWIW: Since this started last Thursday the price of oil has spiked:

 

8 dollars a barrel it has gone up.

Home heating oil has gone up 38 cents a gallon where I get oil.

Gas prices up 8 cents in a week.

 

I only point this out to reiterate- this isn't Trump's fault in the same way it is no President's fault really. The world market has a big impact. It did with Russia and Ukraine. It does now

[Strike 5,385]

9 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

God sometimes you are so dense. I don’t change a thing. I used the word “say” in both posts. 
 

Trump doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing. As usual you defend him like some slobbering dog. It’s really pathetic. 

ROFLMAO as usual nothing of substance.

[Strike 5,385]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I wrote last night that Trump doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing and that is true. He doesn’t think things through, he acts by whim and at the spur of the moment. All true and really scary. 

At the same time it’s not necessarily bad in this particular situation. Sure it would be better if he thought things through and had a plan but he’s probably going to reach the right decision anyhow if the news reports are true: which is either a negotiated solution or a limited air strike that avoids a larger military commitment. 

During his time as President Trump has been consistent about very few things, but one of them is trying to avoid war. This is a commendable attribute IMO. 

It's as if you think Trump just acts on his own without advisers giving him pertinent information.  Thank God he doesn't act/think like Biden, who literally got a bunch of U.S. service people killed with his horrible decision making.

[Ron_Artest 1,310]

20 minutes ago, Strike said:

It's as if you think Trump just acts on his own without advisers giving him pertinent information.  

His national security advisor told him that Iran was not close to a nuclear weapon.  He told reporters that he didn't believe her.

[MDC 7,267]

37 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I wrote last night that Trump doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing and that is true. He doesn’t think things through, he acts by whim and at the spur of the moment. All true and really scary. 

At the same time it’s not necessarily bad in this particular situation. Sure it would be better if he thought things through and had a plan but he’s probably going to reach the right decision anyhow if the news reports are true: which is either a negotiated solution or a limited air strike that avoids a larger military commitment. 

During his time as President Trump has been consistent about very few things, but one of them is trying to avoid war. This is a commendable attribute IMO. 

I’m not really worried about Trump here, because I agree with you that he’s more or less isolationist. I worry about the people in his admin goading him into getting involved.

[The Real timschochet 6,585]

37 minutes ago, Strike said:

It's as if you think Trump just acts on his own without advisers giving him pertinent information.  

Pretty much. As we’ve seen they give him info and he ignores it. 

[jerryskids 6,708]

5 hours ago, Ron_Artest said:

This is mostly false.  While the jcpoa did allow Iran to enrich uranium for nuclear power the limitations were far below what is required for weapons grade and inspectors had access to the program.

Further, in Trump's statement on withdrawal he never mentions that he wants zero nuclear.  He mentions other items like a restriction on missiles, money and a statement that Iran does not want to destroy Israel.  In reality this was mostly trump trying to undo an Obama achievement and get his own in place as he is known to do.  It's what insecure petty twats do.

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-ending-united-states-participation-unacceptable-iran-deal/

No, it's correct. It is idiocy to allow them the physical ability to enrich uranium, then think you can limit it to lower grade levels.

Also, there is a compilation video circulating with 16 minutes of Trump saying Iran can never have nuclear capabilities going back to 2011 I believe. This isn't a new position for him.

[jerryskids 6,708]

I don't BLAME Iran.  But it's not in the interest of the world let alone Israel to allow a country who is hell bent on destroying Israel and on funding every major terror organization as a proxy.

If Islamic countries put down there weapons, Israel would give them peace.  If Israel put down their weapons, there would be no Israel. This is 100% true, and anyone who doesn't see it is inflicted with the Leftist incorrect belief that other cultures behave like we would.

[thegeneral 3,100]

Trump is the world’s number one front runner. The moment this goes titts up (hopefully it doesn’t) he’s backing tracking away from this faster than Usain Bolt and it was Israel’s mistake.