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The Elevator Killer

Why Life May Not Be As Abundant As We Think

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2 minutes ago, lickin_starfish said:

They spliced genetic materials into living materials. I'm talking about heating a rock in a glass of water and seeing life spring forth.

I know. I was just pointing out that they did something pretty amazing, so who knows what the future may bring. 

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5 minutes ago, The Elevator Killer said:

Well they did bring back a cross bread of the Dire Wolf, so who knows what's in the future. 

The theory of relativity may not apply to other galaxies. It may vary from galaxy to Galaxy. They could possibly have different parameters for life, we may never know but it's interesting. 

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1 minute ago, Maximum Overkill said:

The theory of relativity may not apply to other galaxies. It may vary from galaxy to Galaxy. They could possibly have different parameters for life, we may never know but it's interesting. 

I thought it did apply to other galaxies. IDK. Other universes? Probably not. 

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I used to be a ghost hunter. Mostly staying in hotel rooms that were said to be haunted. Most of the time nothing happened, but I have had some experiences I couldn't explain. I'm a debunker. I wanted to know if it was a real experience or if it could be explained.

It didn't scare me because I didn't think that it was the spirits of the dead. I thought it had more to do with string theory and parallel universes. 

Take what the call residual hauntings. The "Ghost" would say go to a bookshelf, get a book and sit down with it. No interaction with the living. That's not a spirit. That's a breach in time and space. These hauntings usually happened in places where limestone was abundant. The ones that interacted, I didn't know what they were, but I figured they were still not spirits of the dead. 

I stopped when I found out the bible said not to communicate with the dead because it opens you up to demons. Nobody's got time for that.

I went to look at Hailey's comet when it passed by. You couldn't look directly at it. The light was too dim. You had to look to the side of it so the light would hit the more sensitive part of your eye. 

Scientist think parallel universes are on top of us. Not above us, but like in the same space we are in. Have you ever seen something out of the corner of your eye and when you looked at it, nothing was there? Try looking away again and see if it reappears. You may just find your seeing something from a parallel universe. 

👻

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1 hour ago, The Elevator Killer said:

Well I threw two didn't things at you, so my bad. On creation, I was looking at my own life and at things that shouldn't of went my way. Really I shouldn't still be here. I think if anyone looks at their own life they can find things that make you say, Hmmm. That was awfully lucky. But that's up to you. 

As for aliens, my point wasn't so much as they don't exist, but not as much as we would think and if they did manage to bend space time and gravity, we aren't so special to make that effort for. And if we are then my point that intelligent life is more rare than we think or they wouldn't bother. But good points. Good conversation.

Lots of lucky people. Lots of dead babies with cancer and unlucky people starving to death.  The universe is pretty random if you look at it as a whole. 

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1 hour ago, The Elevator Killer said:

Who doesn't? I just wanted to post something that wasn't politics. Something where we can share ideas and learn from each other. 

I’m all for it man. Just to heavy of a conversation for me this morning- carry on !

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2 hours ago, iam90sbaby said:

So you watched interstellar?

I developed my theory in late 1980s. Not star trek warp speed, but yeah now days every portal, jump gate, controlled wormhole is essentially the same physics.  

2 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Most everything we know about space is theories and hypothesis.  @Horseman, I think, might be on to something. 

Thumb through an atlas and look at where all of our military bases are located. Every single one is at a military strategic location.  Except all the ones surrounding Death Valley and the Carson sink. Now ask yourself what those two have in common.  

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1 hour ago, iam90sbaby said:

It does, but it isn’t required for life. 
 
Energy source, liquid water, and a biogenic is all you need.

Maybe not.   Life as we know it  possibly.  But again we are assuming life has to be something we think it is.  Might not be true 

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2 hours ago, iam90sbaby said:

A planet doesn’t need a moon or to be in the Goldie locks zone to support life. All it needs a liquid water, an energy source and carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, or sulfur. And time. That’s it. I bet life is so common if we were actually able to travel far distances it wouldn’t even excite us anymore. 

 

1 hour ago, The Elevator Killer said:

No it's needs a moon to stabilize the wobble of it's axis. Otherwise the wobble would be to chaotic. Maybe what I've heard is wrong. Lord knows that we aren't as smart as we think we are. Science proves that constantly. 

 

55 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

You don’t need a moon for life. 

Mars has two moons but they aren’t even big enough to stabilize its axis and many people think it can support life in the future and possibly even had life in the past.

Europa (a moon) has a very unstable axis and a lot think its oceans may have life.

Energy, water, biogenic is all you need. 

I think you may both be right but be arguing different things.  90s is correct about life in general, but could such life evolve into intelligent life that traveled the universe?

There are a few basic ways that 90s list can be satisfied, and he provided two good examples.  

1. Mars is a planet that is close enough to the sun to have occasional liquid water.  But because of the wobble, it's never liquid long enough for any significant evolution, only possibly the simplest of life.  This would be true of most planets because our Moon is quite unique.  Earth could never have pulled something the size of our Moon into orbit; other moons are itty bitty things in comparison to the planets.  It could only have happened if the Moon collided with Earth in an ideal way as to stick around and get caught in orbit.

2. Europe is a great example of a moon that could sustain life, and I'm excited for our mission there.  Europa's power source is the gravitational change from it's non-circular orbit that causes it to oscillate between oval shapes due to Jupiter's strong gravity, causing friction energy.  There are clear signs of liquid water underneath.  Jupiter's immense magnetic field would kill earth life, but maybe not Europa life.  There is an excellent chance of a living ecosystem there, and I believe that these situations contain the most life in the universe.  Intelligent?  That's hard to say, but let's say it could be.  I suppose such life could figure out how to get through the thick outer ice (in Europa's case), and create a spacecraft atmosphere comparable to the "air" atmosphere we create for our travel.  So let's call this possible.

One problem with the above scenarios, however, is the general presence of water on the inner, rocky planets.  As TEK pointed out, these tend to have the heavier elements and molecules, while water and methane are farther out.  It is believed that early in the solar system, Jupiter and Saturn entered a resonance which created a gravitational shock wave that pulled in a bunch of the outer objects, which then crashed into the rocky planets and moons.

3. This leaves Earth, which has the Moon, and the water, and the liquid iron core for magnetic fields (that's not too uncommon though).

My conclusion is that the most likely sources of significant life are the Europa scenario, and that Earth is quite rare.  But, there are a near infinite number of systems out there, so if you divide infinity by infinity you get... who knows?  It's fun to investigate though.  :cheers: 

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1 hour ago, Horseman said:

Lots of lucky people. Lots of dead babies with cancer and unlucky people starving to death.  The universe is pretty random if you look at it as a whole. 

True. I can only look at the major times God looked out for me. 

1. Doctors told my parents I wouldn't live past 2 years old. Doctors can be wrong but when I look at other things it's obvious to me that God has been looking out for me. IDKY

2. Fractured the 3rd vertebrae in my neck but not enough to paralyze me. Luck? Maybe but it was a close call.

3. Coming back from visiting my wife's parents our ac went out so we had the windows down. It started raining for a short time and we rolled the windows up. Suddenly the passenger side tire lost it's entire thread and flew hard against her window. If it had not been up it would have seriously hurt if not killed her. Then we drove on this totally bald tire to the next exit that just happened to have a Walmart with a tire center that was about to close and got a new tire. What's the odds?

4. Recently my wife had a bad reaction to a med her doctor prescribed her. I called paramedics and rushed her to the hospital. They found besides the bad reaction, her potassium level was so low that according to them if we had waited 5 minutes longer she would have died.

And there are other smaller things. So yeah, I believe someone has been watching out for us and has been very good to us. That's my belief. You believe what you want. That's ok. 

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44 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

 

I think you may both be right but be arguing different things.  90s is correct about life in general, but could such life evolve into intelligent life that traveled the universe?

There are a few basic ways that 90s list can be satisfied, and he provided two good examples.  

1. Mars is a planet that is close enough to the sun to have occasional liquid water.  But because of the wobble, it's never liquid long enough for any significant evolution, only possibly the simplest of life.  This would be true of most planets because our Moon is quite unique.  Earth could never have pulled something the size of our Moon into orbit; other moons are itty bitty things in comparison to the planets.  It could only have happened if the Moon collided with Earth in an ideal way as to stick around and get caught in orbit.

2. Europe is a great example of a moon that could sustain life, and I'm excited for our mission there.  Europa's power source is the gravitational change from it's non-circular orbit that causes it to oscillate between oval shapes due to Jupiter's strong gravity, causing friction energy.  There are clear signs of liquid water underneath.  Jupiter's immense magnetic field would kill earth life, but maybe not Europa life.  There is an excellent chance of a living ecosystem there, and I believe that these situations contain the most life in the universe.  Intelligent?  That's hard to say, but let's say it could be.  I suppose such life could figure out how to get through the thick outer ice (in Europa's case), and create a spacecraft atmosphere comparable to the "air" atmosphere we create for our travel.  So let's call this possible.

One problem with the above scenarios, however, is the general presence of water on the inner, rocky planets.  As TEK pointed out, these tend to have the heavier elements and molecules, while water and methane are farther out.  It is believed that early in the solar system, Jupiter and Saturn entered a resonance which created a gravitational shock wave that pulled in a bunch of the outer objects, which then crashed into the rocky planets and moons.

3. This leaves Earth, which has the Moon, and the water, and the liquid iron core for magnetic fields (that's not too uncommon though).

My conclusion is that the most likely sources of significant life are the Europa scenario, and that Earth is quite rare.  But, there are a near infinite number of systems out there, so if you divide infinity by infinity you get... who knows?  It's fun to investigate though.  :cheers: 

I just learned a lot in this post. Excellent. :cheers:

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59 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Maybe not.   Life as we know it  possibly.  But again we are assuming life has to be something we think it is.  Might not be true 

@The Elevator Killerawesome thread!

Mike's posts align with my thoughts. I remember reading a short story in grade school about an astronaut that crash lands on a planet that is completely inhospitable to human life. Fast forward to the end- the planet mutates him into something that CAN survive those conditions. 

Who says life needs oxygen? There may be life forms in the universe that need methane or hydrogen to breathe, and eat sulfur and iron, just as examples.

If Europa, as Jerry said, was capable of supporting life, there could literally be advanced undersea civilizations there subsisting on elements that are toxic to humans like the tube worms that feed off of bacteria and sulfur near superheated volcanic vents undersea on Earth.

Ultimately I think humans have a higher opinion of themselves than is warranted. We don't know fuckall.

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1 minute ago, Fnord said:

@The Elevator Killerawesome thread!

Mike's posts align with my thoughts. I remember reading a short story in grade school about an astronaut that crash lands on a planet that is completely inhospitable to human life. Fast forward to the end- the planet mutates him into something that CAN survive those conditions. 

Who says life needs oxygen? There may be life forms in the universe that need methane or hydrogen to breathe, and eat sulfur and iron, just as examples.

If Europa, as Jerry said, was capable of supporting life, there could literally be advanced undersea civilizations there subsisting on elements that are toxic to humans like the tube worms that feed off of bacteria and sulfur near superheated volcanic vents undersea on Earth.

Ultimately I think humans have a higher opinion of themselves than is warranted. We don't know fuckall.

A while back a read that human knowledge doubles every day. That shows how little we know and what we think we know is proven wrong time and time again. 👍

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Recently heard that Mars is not a planet. It’s actually a leftover moon from a planet that was destroyed by an asteroid or something. 
 

There’s my .02 contribution to this thread. Interesting theories and opinions. 

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25 minutes ago, BufordT said:

Recently heard that Mars is not a planet. It’s actually a leftover moon from a planet that was destroyed by an asteroid or something. 
 

There’s my .02 contribution to this thread. Interesting theories and opinions. 

I heard that too. I think it had something to do with the placement of the other planets. Like there should be planet between Mars and Jupiter. Then there's another one that thinks that Mars' moons may have been formed by a larger moon that was destroyed. Good job BufordT.

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I saw a vid on a meteorite formed very early in the history of the universe. It contained all 8 essential amino acids to create life. 

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1 minute ago, BiPolarBear said:

I saw a vid on a meteorite formed very early in the history of the universe. It contained all 8 essential amino acids to create life. 

God’s work is just amazing.  

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2 hours ago, The Elevator Killer said:

True. I can only look at the major times God looked out for me. 

1. Doctors told my parents I wouldn't live past 2 years old. Doctors can be wrong but when I look at other things it's obvious to me that God has been looking out for me. IDKY

2. Fractured the 3rd vertebrae in my neck but not enough to paralyze me. Luck? Maybe but it was a close call.

3. Coming back from visiting my wife's parents our ac went out so we had the windows down. It started raining for a short time and we rolled the windows up. Suddenly the passenger side tire lost it's entire thread and flew hard against her window. If it had not been up it would have seriously hurt if not killed her. Then we drove on this totally bald tire to the next exit that just happened to have a Walmart with a tire center that was about to close and got a new tire. What's the odds?

4. Recently my wife had a bad reaction to a med her doctor prescribed her. I called paramedics and rushed her to the hospital. They found besides the bad reaction, her potassium level was so low that according to them if we had waited 5 minutes longer she would have died.

And there are other smaller things. So yeah, I believe someone has been watching out for us and has been very good to us. That's my belief. You believe what you want. That's ok. 

Right. The lucky ones need to look at the universe as a whole so they're not biased by their luck.  I bet I can find people starving to death that will say there is definitely no god looking out for them.  

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20 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

The simulation creator?

If we are in a simulation, wouldn't the being that created the simulation be God? My problem with simulation theory is that a lot of bandwidth is being waisted on me watching TV and other mundane things. But hey, thanks for the bandwidth. It's appreciate it. This seasons Dexter has been the best since season 4 of the original. 

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21 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Right. The lucky ones need to look at the universe as a whole so they're not biased by their luck.  I bet I can find people starving to death that will say there is definitely no god looking out for them.  

I don't have the answers you are looking for. I'm just a guy on a lowly trafficked message board. I was agnostic for a long time. I looked at my life and found the answers I was looking for. I can only speak for myself and my life experience and I made my decision based on what I found. Peace out Horseman. 

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4 minutes ago, The Elevator Killer said:

I don't have the answers you are looking for. I'm just a guy on a lowly trafficked message board. I was agnostic for a long time. I looked at my life and found the answers I was looking for. I can only speak for myself and my life experience and I made my decision based on what I found. Peace out Horseman. 

You hit the nail on the head.  I'm not looking for answers.  You were so you created some.   

And that's ok. Good thread.  

Waiting to see if @EternalShinyAndChrome can see what is special about Death Valley and the Carson Sink.  

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9 minutes ago, Horseman said:

You hit the nail on the head.  I'm not looking for answers.  You were so you created some.   

And that's ok. Good thread.  

Waiting to see if @EternalShinyAndChrome can see what is special about Death Valley and the Carson Sink.  

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this. I didn't say you have to believe what I do. If I'm wrong what have I lost? I'm trying to be a better person. I don't worry about things I can't control like World War 3. WTF am I going to do about it? I'm an old man whos time here could end today. I have found some peace. Is your point to make me doubt and lose that? No one is trying to convert you. I just shared why I believe. What do you gain by attacking that belief? 

Anyway I'm looking forward to hearing what is special about Death Valley and the Carson Sink. 

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2 minutes ago, The Elevator Killer said:

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this. I didn't say you have to believe what I do. If I'm wrong what have I lost? I'm trying to be a better person. I don't worry about things I can't control like World War 3. WTF am I going to do about it? I'm an old man whos time here could end today. I have found some peace. Is your point to make me doubt and lose that? No one is trying to convert you. I just shared why I believe. What do you gain by attacking that belief? 

Anyway I'm looking forward to hearing what is special about Death Valley and the Carson Sink. 

Like I said it's OK.  

Just pointing out the who created the creator and the miracle fallacies.  

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3 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Like I said it's OK.  

Just pointing out the who created the creator and the miracle fallacies.  

Good enough. I didn't ask anyone to believe them. I just shared. Who created the creator? IDK. I don't care. We could go into the universe and intelligent design theory, but I'm not really well versed in it. Maybe someone else can tackle that.

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46 minutes ago, The Elevator Killer said:

If we are in a simulation, wouldn't the being that created the simulation be God? My problem with simulation theory is that a lot of bandwidth is being waisted on me watching TV and other mundane things. But hey, thanks for the bandwidth. It's appreciate it. This seasons Dexter has been the best since season 4 of the original. 

Which Dexter are you watching?  

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6 minutes ago, The Elevator Killer said:

Good enough. I didn't ask anyone to believe them. I just shared. Who created the creator? IDK. I don't care. We could go into the universe and intelligent design theory, but I'm not really well versed in it. Maybe someone else can tackle that.

There isn't a logical answer. That's what makes it a fallacy.   

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4 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Which Dexter are you watching?  

The new one Dexter Resurrection. I didn't care for the one in Alaska. But this one I'm really enjoying, inspite of some faults. It's got a great cast. The writing is much better. If I remember you didn't get through the first series because someone stopped carrying it. Honestly, I don't think you need to watch the others to enjoy this one.

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51 minutes ago, Horseman said:

You hit the nail on the head.  I'm not looking for answers.  You were so you created some.   

And that's ok. Good thread.  

Waiting to see if @EternalShinyAndChrome can see what is special about Death Valley and the Carson Sink.  

One is a sink and one is a valley?

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3 minutes ago, Horseman said:

There isn't a logical answer. That's what makes it a fallacy.   

I get you. The logical brain takes over for things we can't explain and says WRONG. That's normal. Like my ghost hunting. Even I question things I've seen. And when others share their stories my logical brain says bullsh!t, even though I've had my own experiences. 

You see I don't think science and faith really contradict each other as much as each side wants us to believe. A good scientist asks why and doesn't disregard something just because it conflicts with his belief. 

Can you explain why you can feel someone looking at you? We've all experienced it. There's no logical reason for it. Logic is important, but it's not the only factor that makes something true. 

But really I understand how logic makes you doubt things. It's survival. But even Einstein believed in a higher power and that conscience survives after death. 

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14 minutes ago, The Elevator Killer said:

The new one Dexter Resurrection. I didn't care for the one in Alaska. But this one I'm really enjoying, inspite of some faults. It's got a great cast. The writing is much better. If I remember you didn't get through the first series because someone stopped carrying it. Honestly, I don't think you need to watch the others to enjoy this one.

Thanks.  Yeah, Netflix stopped carrying it.  Maybe I'll give Resurrection a go after I finish Squid Game. :cheers:

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10 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

One is a sink and one is a valley?

There is a very very rapid change in elevation at both places.  Like nowhere else on earth.  A change in elevation means a change in gravity. 

Coincidentally both places are hotbed for ufo sightings?

If I had learned to harness gravity and built a portal, or say a gravity gun and I needed to point it at something in order to bend that space to me so I could travel there.  A spot with a rapid change in elevation might help me focus that gun.  

Anyway, that's my theory from 1989.  Lol.  

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13 minutes ago, The Elevator Killer said:

I get you. The logical brain takes over for things we can't explain and says WRONG. That's normal. Like my ghost hunting. Even I question things I've seen. And when others share their stories my logical brain says bullsh!t, even though I've had my own experiences. 

You see I don't think science and faith really contradict each other as much as each side wants us to believe. A good scientist asks why and doesn't disregard something just because it conflicts with his belief. 

Can you explain why you can feel someone looking at you? We've all experienced it. There's no logical reason for it. Logic is important, but it's not the only factor that makes something true. 

But really I understand how logic makes you doubt things. It's survival. But even Einstein believed in a higher power and that conscience survives after death. 

Any good scientist wont discount those things as possibilities until there is proof one way or the other.  But they will call out bad proof that comes along saying they exist. Like the two fallacies we were discussing.  

We already know we only use a very small portion of our brains.  Textbooks have limited us to the 5 senses.  Things like feelings (knowing someone is watching us) are usually explained by coincidence, recently bias or maybe we are using more of our brains than we think we are.  Discussing this along with probabilities because I can't say definitively why you felt that way...in the words of Bob Marley a mighty god is living man...I'd learn towards giving you credit rather than assigning that to some random supernatural being.  

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6 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Any good scientist wont discount those things as possibilities until there is proof one way or the other.  But they will call out bad proof that comes along saying they exist. Like the two fallacies we were discussing.  

We already know we only use a very small portion of our brains.  Textbooks have limited us to the 5 senses.  Things like feelings (knowing someone is watching us) are usually explained by coincidence, recently bias or maybe we are using more of our brains than we think we are.  Discussing this along with probabilities because I can't say definitively why you felt that way...in the words of Bob Marley a mighty god is living man...I'd learn towards giving you credit rather than assigning that to some random supernatural being.  

Good enough. As I said before I didn't mean for this to become a WeePaw thread. Let's go back to the original subject. We are cool. 

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17 minutes ago, Horseman said:

There is a very very rapid change in elevation at both places.  Like nowhere else on earth.  A change in elevation means a change in gravity. 

Coincidentally both places are hotbed for ufo sightings?

If I had learned to harness gravity and built a portal, or say a gravity gun and I needed to point it at something in order to bend that space to me so I could travel there.  A spot with a rapid change in elevation might help me focus that gun.  

Anyway, that's my theory from 1989.  Lol.  

I kind of had a simular theory on reaching other dimensions. I saw where some guy was trying to raise funds to build a circular laser to create a portal to reach other dimensions. With residual haunting occuring in places with heavy limestone, I thought that would be the best place to break into other dimensions. Remember my thoughts are that residual hauntings were not spirits, but breaks in time or dimensions. 

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