$140,000 is the new poverty line. Here's the math

[Maximum Overkill 2,559]

A new poverty line for a family of four in America: $140,000 a year.  

It’s a large number. The Federal Poverty Level set by the Department of Health and Human Services for a family of four is $32,150. The median household income in 2024 was $83,730. 

The provocative Substack post, published Nov. 23, comes from Michael Green, chief strategist and portfolio manager for Simplify Asset Management.  

For a populist argument about middle-class America slipping into poverty, Green might seem an unlikely source.  

We have been told, implicitly, that a family earning $80,000 is doing fine − safely above poverty, solidly middle class, perhaps comfortable,” Green writes.  

But if you consider what a household actually spends on childcare, housing, health care and other essentials in 2025, Green writes, “that $80,000 family would be living in deep poverty.” 

 

Is $140,000 the new poverty line? Here's a breakdown

Green set out to build a “Basic Needs” budget for a family of four, with two jobs and two kids, based on average spending in 2024: 

• Childcare: $32,773 
• Housing: $23,267 
• Food: $14,717 
• Transportation: $14,828 
• Health care: $10,567 
• Other essentials: $21,857 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,955]

Biden left behind a world of hurt. SNAP recipients just about doubled on his watch. Complete failure. 

[Ron_Artest 2,360]

So because this guy says so in a substack, it is?

[MDC 7,987]

That is ridiculous. 

[nobody 2,911]

Trump's America

[Maximum Overkill 2,559]

$140,000 for a Family of 4 is nothing, unless you live in a hood. 

[nobody 2,911]

His numbers actually check out.  Let's bounce it off common sense...

Childcare should be about $100 a day for 250 days assuming weekends and holidays right? $25,000

Housing.  Most people should be able to find something for $2k/month, so that's about right. $24k

Transportation: Need to factor in gas, and because you needed to move 40 miles away to afford a place, gas is a factor.  I have $13k assuming 2 cars for 10 years, $3/gal gas.  $1k per year maintenance costs. $13k

Food: Let's call it $50/day for a family of 4.  $18k

Healthcare: $10k is typical I guess?  Although it does seem high.  On average though, with a family of 4 someone is going to make you dip into to that deductible.

Other necessities... utilities, phone, clothes, incidentals, etc. easily run $1600/mo.  so that's about $20k

So I'm coming out with $110k with my back of the envelope math.  You could probably scrimp and save and reduce that to like $90k if you really didn't spend anything frivolously.

 

[Maximum Overkill 2,559]

We are a Family of 4.and there's no way in hell we could live off of $140,000 a year. It's just not possible. 

[dogcows 1,160]

If we had govt-paid healthcare and daycare, it would cost a fraction of the cost in taxes because right now there is a LOT of profit-taking in both areas.

At which point 140K would be worth a lot more.

Privatizing everything has turned out to be a huge lie and ripoff of working Americans.

[nobody 2,911]

This dude. Like the gubmint gets involved and anything gets cheaper.

It would cost the same or more.  

They just love having opinions.