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Should tipping be mandatory?


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#41 Mookz

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 07:37 PM

Now we know how George Zimmerman is spending his free time before the trial. :dunno:

#42 Chronic Husker

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 07:39 PM

Couple things:

1: Why am I not surprised the geeks are a bunch of cheap focks?

2: Cruzer is right. A few years back I was waiting tables. I worked with this supercool black girl that had a black family sit in her section. She says to me, "CH, go take that table. You know I don't wait on black people."

:D
(drobeski @ Aug 16 2005, 04:17 PM)I'm not gay. HE was sucking MY cack.

#43 Cdub100

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:05 PM

Didn't open the link... black?

#44 OldMaid

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:08 PM

All cows should be tipped.

:doublethumbsup:

1. She did. She got tired of Greenpeace pushing her "back" into the ocean, so she came home.
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#45 DanXIII

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:54 AM

I never tip those people. The employer should pay them a buck or two more per hour instead of asking the customer to pay more for the luxury of being handed the item he asked for. Why should I pony up an extra buck just to save Dunkin Donuts the expense?


Why should you have to do it for any restaurant owner?

Seriously does anyone know who brought this stupid practice to Murcan shores? I lived in Europe and it wasn't common there, and I know it isn't customary in the Far East. Why is this stupid seemingly unique to us?
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#46 MDC

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:12 AM

Why should you have to do it for any restaurant owner?


That's true, but the law (at least here in the Northeast) allows restaurants to pay servers at a lower rate than minimum wage - waiters rely on tips. Wait staff are performing a service (taking multiple orders, refilling drinks, bringing the food, etc.) beyond just handing me the item I asked for and ringing me up. It takes an hour or more and probably 5-6 trips to the table bare minimum to properly wait a table.

At Dunkin Donuts or the coffee shop, all the food is all essentially prepared and I'm in and out of there in 5 minutes. I'd say that working in that kind of food service atmosphere is a lot more similar to retail than waiting tables. I don't tip the cashier at Macy's when I buy a shirt. Why would I tip the kid at Dunkin who hands me a bagel?

Edit: There's a range here. For example if I go to Jimmy John's or whatever, they are sort of preparing your food so I may put pocket change in the tip jar. But mostly I feel like you're being asked to supplement the workers' salaries to spare employers the hassle of paying them a few bucks more an hour. And FWIW, I generally tip 20-25% at restaurants. It's not the money, it's just on principle.
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#47 DanXIII

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:18 AM

That's true, but the law (at least here in the Northeast) allows restaurants to pay servers at a lower rate than minimum wage - waiters rely on tips.


Restaurants have to pay their employees minimum wage. If their tips do not increase their pay to those levels, the restaurant has to make up the difference.


Wait staff are performing a service (taking multiple orders, refilling drinks, bringing the food, etc.) beyond just handing me the item I asked for and ringing me up. It takes an hour or more and probably 5-6 trips to the table bare minimum to properly wait a table.

At Dunkin Donuts or the coffee shop, all the food is all essentially prepared and I'm in and out of there in 5 minutes. I'd say that working in that kind of food service atmosphere is a lot more similar to retail than waiting tables. I don't tip the cashier at Macy's when I buy a shirt. Why would I tip the kid at Dunkin who hands me a bagel?


I agree, though I'd say an argument could be made that (in the case of coffee) a barista at Dunkin does more to "prepare" your order than a server at Outback. But that's splitting hairs.

I just think it's a stupid custom that needs to go the fock away. That ENTIRE episode in the OP would never have happened had it not been for this idiotic custom. And I say that as the most non-Scottie Pippin person here. I ALWAYS tip, every time. Even when service is bad I leave a minimum of 15%. I have worked as a bartender and as a waiter and I know how hard the job is and how the staff is dependent on their tips to survive. I just want this stupid system to change. I see no reason for a worker's salary to be based on (in many cases) sheer dumb luck.
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#48 MDC

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:33 AM

Restaurants have to pay their employees minimum wage. If their tips do not increase their pay to those levels, the restaurant has to make up the difference.


I waitered at a chain restaurant during college back in the '90s and the hourly rate paid by the employer was around $3/hour then in New Jersey, which was obviously well below the minimum wage. So maybe the restaurant has to make up the difference, but my point is that tips are where waiters and waitresses make the bulk of their money, unlike a coffee shop or another job where the employer pays at least minimum wage.

I agree, though I'd say an argument could be made that (in the case of coffee) a barista at Dunkin does more to "prepare" your order than a server at Outback. But that's splitting hairs.


Come on. The waitress at an Outback is introducing herself, taking an initial drink order, taking an appetizer / meal order, bringing out the food, refilling drinks, taking a desert / coffee order, bringing the check, and ringing you up. While managing anywhere from 4-8 tables at a time and maintaining a pleasant demeanor, something we generally don't expect from the barrista other than being polite. Oh, and she's doing that over the course of an hour per table if not more, unlike the 5-min get in / get out at Dunkin' Donuts. The waiter / waitress is also expected to tip out 10-15% of his / her own tips to the bar staff and bus boys. The level of service is totally different and that's why I tip one but not the other. I don't tip at Subway either.

I'm fine with the tip system and have no problems with it, I agree totally with Worms on tipping non wait staff though. Never do it.
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#49 Patriotsfatboy1

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:36 AM

Did anyone look at the Yelp reviews on this restaurant? They are taking a little bit of a beating. However, clearly this restaurant has some issues with treating customers well. Just look at the fact that they charge their customers for regular water. :lol:
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#50 DanXIII

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:55 AM

Did anyone look at the Yelp reviews on this restaurant? They are taking a little bit of a beating. However, clearly this restaurant has some issues with treating customers well. Just look at the fact that they charge their customers for regular water. :lol:


Haha yeah their Yelp page has turned into a Geek Bored thread
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#51 Cruzer

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:03 AM

Does that have anything to do with this story? Or could you just not resist the temptation to throw in a racist observation?

The patrons were African American - I simply stated what I've been told by many of my server friends and bartenders in the business what their experiences have been with similar customers. None of us were there, so none of us really know...........My dad is a notorious bad tipper - oops, is that another racist statement?

#52 JTB

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:07 AM

I never tip those people. The employer should pay them a buck or two more per hour instead of asking the customer to pay more for the luxury of being handed the item he asked for. Why should I pony up an extra buck just to save Dunkin Donuts the expense?



So you don't tip at a bar when you oreder a bottle of beer? after all, they likely just popped to cap off and put it on the bar for you to take.

#53 DanXIII

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:08 AM

On average, I got worse tips from blacks than other races. I apologize if that sounds racist. I am only reporting my own experiences. :dunno:
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#54 DanXIII

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:09 AM

So you don't tip at a bar when you oreder a bottle of beer? after all, they likely just popped to cap off and put it on the bar for you to take.


haha well played.

This further illustrates the uneven way this stupid "custom" is applied in the US. Mr Pink was right.
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#55 Cruzer

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:10 AM

Yeah sorry Cruzer. I tend to be a pain in the ass to racist posters like NorthernVike. Mainly I just like to point out that you're pvssies who would never say this kind of stuff without the anonymity the internet provides.

I've told and asked several black people I know about this - one who works for me. I was never the one who made the statements, I was only curious as to if it were true. One of my closest friends in the world is a retired Marine Corps Major, black as night, grew up in the sticks of Alabama - I've asked him as well. So, anymore off based theories?

#56 Cruzer

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:13 AM

On average, I got worse tips from blacks than other races. I apologize if that sounds racist. I am only reporting my own experiences. :dunno:

You're racism disgust me - how dare you make a non judgmental, non biased statement based on personal experience. Reported. :mad:

#57 MDC

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:20 AM

So you don't tip at a bar when you oreder a bottle of beer? after all, they likely just popped to cap off and put it on the bar for you to take.


Like servers, the minimum wage doesn't apply to those professions. And besides, it takes a long time to make an appletini and listen to me bellyache about my bad hair day.
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#58 rallo

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:14 AM

Being a former server i have no problem with the automatic gratuity. If you haven't worked as a server you have no idea how much it sucks. Yes it is an easy job that anyone has the mental capacity to do, but few can do it well. It is focking hard to be personable, patient, and efficient... especially dealing with customers that either: assume you are not as intelligent as them because you work in a restaurant, or are simply trashy/complain about everything/ and don't know how to tip. Until they are willing to pay server $10/hr or more (thus upping the menu price considerably) tipping should be mandatory.


Also... few people know how to tip.

At least 15%... if the service is bad you can pull the server aside or talk to the manager
20% or above if you thought the service was good or great
Also... if you sat and chatted with your friends for 3 hours, thus tying up a table and wasting the server's opportunity to have more guests... peel them of a few more bucks

Here comes the standard fftoday answer : i make 6 figures... 8 inch dong... oh yeah... and i ALWAYS tip more than 25%

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#59 Patriotsfatboy1

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:20 AM

Being a former server i have no problem with the automatic gratuity. If you haven't worked as a server you have no idea how much it sucks. Yes it is an easy job that anyone has the mental capacity to do, but few can do it well. It is focking hard to be personable, patient, and efficient... especially dealing with customers that either: assume you are not as intelligent as them because you work in a restaurant, or are simply trashy/complain about everything/ and don't know how to tip. Until they are willing to pay server $10/hr or more (thus upping the menu price considerably) tipping should be mandatory.


Also... few people know how to tip.

At least 15%... if the service is bad you can pull the server aside or talk to the manager
20% or above if you thought the service was good or great
Also... if you sat and chatted with your friends for 3 hours, thus tying up a table and wasting the server's opportunity to have more guests... peel them of a few more bucks

Here comes the standard fftoday answer : i make 6 figures... 8 inch dong... oh yeah... and i ALWAYS tip more than 25%


Here is the problem. If you force the gratuity, that is all that I am paying. If you don't, then I could pay more. If you work at a restaurant that caters to people who suck at tipping, then you probably want to look for opportunities elsewhere.
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#60 rallo

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:26 AM

Here is the problem. If you force the gratuity, that is all that I am paying. If you don't, then I could pay more. If you work at a restaurant that caters to people who suck at tipping, then you probably want to look for opportunities elsewhere.


i worked for applebee's first... i left after a couple years for that reason... I later worked at a nicer restaurant downtown. You still can't escape the large parties for proms... trashy people coming out for a birthday... If you get a shitty tip on a $50 bill for 2 people it's not a big deal... it's that big trashy table who's ticket is over $300... and they can't believe it's so expensive... so they give $305 and call it good. They don't realize that the servers have to 'tip-out' a percentage to hosts, bartenders, expos, etc. At our restaurant you tipped out 3% of your sales... theoretcially on that earlier scenario (getting a $5 tip on a $300 ticket) i would have lost $4... i would have actually paid for the honor to wait on that table :wacko:

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#61 Patriotsfatboy1

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:29 AM

i worked for applebee's first... i left after a couple years for that reason... I later worked at a nicer restaurant downtown. You still can't escape the large parties for proms... trashy people coming out for a birthday... If you get a shitty tip on a $50 bill for 2 people it's not a big deal... it's that big trashy table who's ticket is over $300... and they can't believe it's so expensive... so they give $305 and call it good.


I have no problem with the mandatory tip for larger parties. However, if I talked to the manager because my service sucked, I would damn well expect some sort of gratification. From what I read on Yelp, the management at that restaurant had prior issues with not paying attention to complaints.
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#62 edjr

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:44 AM

Great service = 15%
Normal service = 15%
Horrible service = 15%

:dunno:


you cheap fock

posty


#63 DanXIII

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:54 AM

Until they are willing to pay server $10/hr or more (thus upping the menu price considerably) tipping should be mandatory.


I hear this every time I talk about how stupid this practice is as an argument for maintaining the status quo. Yes, menu prices will increase. However, the cost of dining out will not increase. At least not for people who aren't cheap focks and who always tip.

Honestly, the only people I can see being FOR this stupid system are, well, cheap focks who never tip. They're the only ones who benefit, on balance, from the current system. And there would still be nothing and no one saying someone couldn't still leave a little something extra for good service, hell it happens in other industries.
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#64 Strike

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:00 AM

I have no problem with the mandatory tip for larger parties. However, if I talked to the manager because my service sucked, I would damn well expect some sort of gratification. From what I read on Yelp, the management at that restaurant had prior issues with not paying attention to complaints.



Exactly. It's not that the policy of mandated tipping for large parties is bad per se, it's when the servers don't deserve the tip. The customer should still have a recourse in those situations as they would if they had come in a smaller party.
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#65 DanXIII

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:04 AM

Did anyone look at the Yelp reviews on this restaurant? They are taking a little bit of a beating. However, clearly this restaurant has some issues with treating customers well. Just look at the fact that they charge their customers for regular water. :lol:


lol classic:

I have never been to this restaurant but am adding this review to counter all of the negative reviews given by people who read a story and just have to make themselves heard. If you have not been to a restaurant do not leave a review.


http://www.yelp.com/biz/la-fisherman-houston#hrid:BzjpXPXsJTNU5ERHqTKtUQ
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#66 GobbleDog

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

you cheap fock

Since when did 20-25% become the new standard? It's not like food prices haven't changed.?.

Screw that. 15% is all that's needed to get out the door without pissing anyone off. And yes, I give EXACTLY 15% to the penny. Let the rich bastards waste money over tipping.

#67 DanXIII

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:13 AM

Since when did 20-25% become the new standard? It's not like food prices haven't changed.?.


I'm not sure when it happened either, but 20% is the new 15%. When I waited tables and tended bar 15% was standard and I only got 20% if I kicked ass.
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#68 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:55 AM

One time, I was charged a mandatory gratuity and the service sucked, but there was still a tip line.

I wrote in -$8.40 or whatever the charge was, and deducted it. I'm sure I still paid it, but it was possibly a pain in the managers ass, I dunno.
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#69 JT

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:55 AM

Why? Have you ever been in a large group that didn't leave a tip? :dunno:


I've been in some groups where I was embarassed at the amount individuals left for their "share" of the tip.

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#70 IGotWorms

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:01 PM

The patrons were African American - I simply stated what I've been told by many of my server friends and bartenders in the business what their experiences have been with similar customers. None of us were there, so none of us really know...........My dad is a notorious bad tipper - oops, is that another racist statement?


My bad Cruzer, it can be a fine line and I guess I'm a little touchy because lately certain posters have gone WAAAY over said line. Anyway I guess what set me off was you coming in trying to make this thread about blacks. I could be wrong but does it say anywhere that the people in this particular story were black? So we have something that doesn't really seem to be related to race at all and then you come in here saying blacks are cheap and don't tip well. You can see how I thought that was somewhat racist, right?

#71 Strike

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:04 PM

My bad Cruzer, it can be a fine line and I guess I'm a little touchy because lately certain posters have gone WAAAY over said line. Anyway I guess what set me off was you coming in trying to make this thread about blacks. I could be wrong but does it say anywhere that the people in this particular story were black? So we have something that doesn't really seem to be related to race at all and then you come in here saying blacks are cheap and don't tip well. You can see how I thought that was somewhat racist, right?


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#72 IGotWorms

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:06 PM

i worked for applebee's first... i left after a couple years for that reason... I later worked at a nicer restaurant downtown. You still can't escape the large parties for proms... trashy people coming out for a birthday... If you get a shitty tip on a $50 bill for 2 people it's not a big deal... it's that big trashy table who's ticket is over $300... and they can't believe it's so expensive... so they give $305 and call it good. They don't realize that the servers have to 'tip-out' a percentage to hosts, bartenders, expos, etc. At our restaurant you tipped out 3% of your sales... theoretcially on that earlier scenario (getting a $5 tip on a $300 ticket) i would have lost $4... i would have actually paid for the honor to wait on that table :wacko:


I understand servers can get screwed by large parties and that's very unfortunate. However, here is my problem with the mandatory gratuity for large parties: if you know you are getting tipped 20% no matter what, are you really going to bust your hump for that table? I'm not suggesting you personally will dog it entirely (though some waiters do in my experience), but be honest, is the motivation really there for you to provide the best service you can? If you provide at least decent service then you've earned the 20%. If you provide fantastic service...you're still getting 20%.

Isn't the entire point of tipping to reward/encourage good service? Seems to me that goes straight out the window when the tip is made mandatory.