Barry Bonds

[Uncle Leo 16]

Without a doubt IMO. I was just reading a article on espn.com and came across this:

 

Barry Bonds 2002 Homeruns 46 Ks 47

 

Barry Bonds 2004 Homeruns 45 Ks 41

 

[Jeff Garcia 8]

 

Because he has as many HRs as SOs he is the best player of his generation?

[NewbieJr 541]

This is a joke, right?

[kilroy69 1,020]

The rocket is the best player of the generation that bonds comes from.

[Uncle Leo 16]

This is a joke, right?

Please answer the question in a yes or no!

 

The rocket is the best player of the generation that bonds comes from.

 

You think Clemens never took performance enhancement vitamins?

[hoytdwow 202]

performance enhancement vitamins?

are they illegal?

[Jeremy 0]

Him, or the aforementioned Roger Clemens, I would say. Certainly the best hitter of his generation, as much as I can't stand the guy.

[kilroy69 1,020]

Please answer the question in a yes or no!

You think Clemens never took performance enhancement vitamins?

Centrum silver maybe.

[Uncle Leo 16]

only 232 hits away from 3000!

 

 

 

 

...I'm more interested in seeing if he gets to 3000 than the Hank Aaron HR total.

[NewbieJr 541]

Please answer the question in a yes or no!

Oh, sorry.

No

[Mungwater 588]

only 232 hits away from 3000!

...I'm more interested in seeing if he gets to 3000 than the Hank Aaron HR total.

 

If there is any justice in the world, he won't get either.

[kilroy69 1,020]

If there is any justice in the world, he won't get either.

Because he was hit by a train. Too harsh? Ok.. a bus.

[Uncle Leo 16]

If there is any justice in the world, he won't get either.

 

You act like he killed or raped someone. The man man took some performance enhancement medication to help him a hit the ball 50 feet further. The man has some other great sats besides the HR total.

[shovelheadt 62]

You act like he killed or raped someone. The man man took some performance enhancement medication to help him a hit the ball 50 feet further. The man has some other great sats besides the HR total.

 

But some of those other stats are a direct result of him hitting the ball 50ft further, thus more home runs, thus more intentional walks, thus less Ks, thus a higher on base percentage.

 

I'm not a hater though. One of the best ever.

[TAS 2]

Pfffttt! Barry Shmarry. Omar Vizquel is easily 1000x the player Barry is!

[Rybo5 0]

I assume he has the distinctiom of being one of the few baseball players ever to hit his prime in his mid 30's. I'm sure the illegal performance enhancing drugs had nothing to do with it though.

[Uncle Leo 16]

I assume he has the distinctiom of being one of the few baseball players ever to hit his prime in his mid 30's. I'm sure the illegal performance enhancing drugs had nothing to do with it though.

 

SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

 

 

1990 Pit 151 519 104 156 32 3 33 114 93 83 52 13 .301 .406 .565 .971

1991 Pit 153 510 95 149 28 5 25 116 107 73 43 13 .292 .410 .514 .924

1992 Pit 140 473 109 147 36 5 34 103 127 69 39 8 .311 .456 .624 1.080

1993 SF 159 539 129 181 38 4 46 123 126 79 29 12 .336 .458 .677 1.135

1994 SF 112 391 89 122 18 1 37 81 74 43 29 9 .312 .426 .647 1.073

1995 SF 144 506 109 149 30 7 33 104 120 83 31 10 .294 .431 .577 1.008

1996 SF 158 517 122 159 27 3 42 129 151 76 40 7 .308 .461 .615 1.076

1997 SF 159 532 123 155 26 5 40 101 145 87 37 8 .291 .446 .585 1.031

1998 SF 156 552 120 167 44 7 37 122 130 92 28 12 .303 .438 .609 1.047

 

 

 

...these are Barry's amazing stats from the age of 25 til he was 33. How did he hit his prime in the mid 30's?

[gocolts 300]

Nope.No.Noway.Not even close,bub.

[NewbieJr 541]

SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

1990 Pit 151 519 104 156 32 3 33 114 93 83 52 13 .301 .406 .565 .971

1991 Pit 153 510 95 149 28 5 25 116 107 73 43 13 .292 .410 .514 .924

1992 Pit 140 473 109 147 36 5 34 103 127 69 39 8 .311 .456 .624 1.080

1993 SF 159 539 129 181 38 4 46 123 126 79 29 12 .336 .458 .677 1.135

1994 SF 112 391 89 122 18 1 37 81 74 43 29 9 .312 .426 .647 1.073

1995 SF 144 506 109 149 30 7 33 104 120 83 31 10 .294 .431 .577 1.008

1996 SF 158 517 122 159 27 3 42 129 151 76 40 7 .308 .461 .615 1.076

1997 SF 159 532 123 155 26 5 40 101 145 87 37 8 .291 .446 .585 1.031

1998 SF 156 552 120 167 44 7 37 122 130 92 28 12 .303 .438 .609 1.047

...these are Barry's amazing stats from the age of 25 til he was 33. How did he hit his prime in the mid 30's?

Post 1999 through 2005.

It'll become much clearer to you.

[Uncle Leo 16]

Post 1999 through 2005.

It'll become much clearer to you.

 

 

More homeruns and more walks, but he was in his prime during 90 to 98. Look at his stolenbase totals after 98. Look at his fielding after 98. He was a five-tool player during his prime(90-98)!

[Invision Power Board 0]

More homeruns and more walks, but he was in his prime during 90 to 98. Look at his stolenbase totals after 98. Look at his fielding after 98. He was a five-tool player during his prime(90-98)!

 

 

He was a six tool player.

[TAS 2]

He was a tool!

[Uncle Leo 16]

EIGHT gold gloves from 1990 to 1998!

 

 

that is a player in his prime.

[gocolts 300]

EIGHT gold gloves from 1990 to 1998!

that is a player in his prime.

 

 

No,that is someone on the juice

[Rybo5 0]

More homeruns and more walks, but he was in his prime during 90 to 98. Look at his stolenbase totals after 98. Look at his fielding after 98. He was a five-tool player during his prime(90-98)!

 

I agree that he was an overall better player pre drugs, but his druggie years are what allowed him to get or approach these records. That's the whole point. No one thinks Bonds stinks or anything like that. He's one of the best players in the history of the game. The problem is that he took these illegal drugs, benefited greatly from them, and then proceeded to lie profusely about it.

 

Also, you forgot to mention that he had a higher batting average, higher on base percentage, higher slugging percentage, and a higher OPS.

[mulletia 0]

I'll take griffey jr thanks

 

and a five tool player is one that plays defense at what point was barry considered a great defenseive player?

[NewbieJr 541]

I agree that he was an overall better player pre drugs, but his druggie years are what allowed him to get or approach these records. That's the whole point. No one thinks Bonds stinks or anything like that. He's one of the best players in the history of the game. The problem is that he took these illegal drugs, benefited greatly from them, and then proceeded to lie profusely about it.

Exactly. And now his fans expect everyone to forget about the pumpkinhead steroid years and pretend that he should be remembered for being the great hitter/fielder/baserunner that he used to be when he was playing on a level playing field with everyone else.

Sorry, but once you decide to cheat the game, you no onger are remembered for how good you used to be.

[potts17 4]

Barry is one of the top 5 best players ever to play the game. Regardless if he juiced or not, still an amazing player. Until someone can show me proof than noone else that ever played baseball cheated, who knows what they had back in the 50's and 60's, maybe some horse steroid or something, I will never discredit anything Barry has done. First off we don't have physical proof that Barry ever did anything, possibly the cream and clear, but everything else that has been said has not been proven, just written about in a few books. I don't doubt that he did take something at some point in his career though. But how can we say that Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, or Cal Ripken (that's a lot of games to stay healthy for, think about it) didn't take something to help them recover from injuries and recover from working out quicker. We can't, the media back then could have cared less if they had taken something, but to come down on Bonds who the media hate (don't blame them, not the nicest guy in the clubhouse or in public) is just not fair. You don't hear much talk of Palmero, Mcgwire, or Giambi (who admitted he took steroids). Nope only Bonds, so if he came out and said yep I took steroids, would everyone leave him alone? No, they would want him kicked out of the league, all his stats wiped off the books and never be eligible for the Hall of Fame. I didn't see them taking away Giambi's MVP trophy from when he was juicing. Just my $.02.

[lagarzlebrew 0]

Barry is one of the top 5 best players ever to play the game. Regardless if he juiced or not, still an amazing player. Until someone can show me proof than noone else that ever played baseball cheated, who knows what they had back in the 50's and 60's, maybe some horse steroid or something, I will never discredit anything Barry has done. First off we don't have physical proof that Barry ever did anything, possibly the cream and clear, but everything else that has been said has not been proven, just written about in a few books. I don't doubt that he did take something at some point in his career though. But how can we say that Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, or Cal Ripken (that's a lot of games to stay healthy for, think about it) didn't take something to help them recover from injuries and recover from working out quicker. We can't, the media back then could have cared less if they had taken something, but to come down on Bonds who the media hate (don't blame them, not the nicest guy in the clubhouse or in public) is just not fair. You don't hear much talk of Palmero, Mcgwire, or Giambi (who admitted he took steroids). Nope only Bonds, so if he came out and said yep I took steroids, would everyone leave him alone? No, they would want him kicked out of the league, all his stats wiped off the books and never be eligible for the Hall of Fame. I didn't see them taking away Giambi's MVP trophy from when he was juicing. Just my $.02.

[ZeroTolerance 582]

'Performance enhancement medication"

 

LOFL! You make it sound like Barry was popping Viagra. Then again, I wouldnt be surprised if Palmeiro shared some little white pills with Bonds.

[gocolts 300]

[birdbrain3X 0]

I agree that he was an overall better player pre drugs, but his druggie years are what allowed him to get or approach these records. That's the whole point. No one thinks Bonds stinks or anything like that. He's one of the best players in the history of the game. The problem is that he took these illegal drugs, benefited greatly from them, and then proceeded to lie profusely about it.

 

Also, you forgot to mention that he had a higher batting average, higher on base percentage, higher slugging percentage, and a higher OPS.

 

Agreed!

 

 

You don't hear much talk of Palmero, Mcgwire, or Giambi (who admitted he took steroids). :

 

Palmeiro got nailed and destroyed by fans(to the point that he wore earplugs at bat) and is out of BB. McGuire only fooled the media not the knowlegdeable fans outside of St. Louis, looked like a fool in front of the Senate and has long been out of BB. Giambi admitted use in front of a Grand Jury(unlike Barry who will be in front of that same Grand Jury for perjury) and plays on.

 

The man won't admit despite the obvious use and that is why he is chastised. He deserves everything he gets. Except Hank Aaron's record! If he get's there.

[GettnHuge 1]

Barry is one of the top 5 best players ever to play the game.

 

babe ruth

ty cobb

ted williams

cy young

willie mays

well shucks maybe he's top 10

[Bratwurst 0]

Did someone else say this .... Like LT changed the NFL, admitted drug user and was a dominant player. He was never properly tested. He has never said for sure if he did cocaine before a game ... and changed the sport.

 

The best football player, I ever saw play at Arizona was Bruschi. He had a motor, know what I mean, he influenced the entire team to another level.

 

Roids? I think he's clean, mostly. He's like Romo, just fired up, naturally ... he's an AZ Wildcat. Bear Down.

 

Or was he on drugs.

 

Naaaahhhhhhhhhhh.

[Bratwurst 0]

Oh, and don't forget what Bo knows. Bo Jackson knows he pushed his body too far and got hurt.

 

Coulda, shoulda ... with Allen .... DA RAIHDAHS!

 

I gotta say, Bo Jackson, in his prime, maybe, just maybe, be the best player ... in the history, of sports.

 

Uhhh .... Didn't Jason Seahorn do some modelling though?

 

That's gotta count for sumthin'

[edjr 5,656]

 

Because he has as many HRs as SOs he is the best player of his generation?

 

 

7 MVPs

8 Gold Gloves

12 Silver Sluggers

2 Batting titles

Career 1.053 ops

700+ home runs

2300+ walks

500+ Stolen bases

2700+ hits

 

Best player of his generation? With Ease.

 

Try the best player EVER.

[NewbieJr 541]

7 MVPs

8 Gold Gloves

12 Silver Sluggers

2 Batting titles

Career 1.053 ops

700+ home runs

2300+ walks

500+ Stolen bases

2700+ hits

 

Best player of his generation? With Ease.

 

Try the best player EVER.

Great player. yes. No doubt about it.

These stats are greatly enhanced by his steroid/growth hormone/cattle enhancing drug use, though.

 

At his pre-steroid pace, he would have probably ended around 450-500 home runs.

His increased home run totals earned him hundreds of walks which inflated his on base percentage.

Alot of his home runs would have been flyouts without the boost that roids gave him, so drop the average and hits significantly.

The only stats that aren't chemically enhanced are the gold gloves and stolen bases.

 

I'm not going to sit here just because I hate him and diminish how great a player he was, but he's nowhere near the best player ever. Argueably top twenty, though.

[surferskin 30]

hooray, another barry bonds thread!!!

[edjr 5,656]

Great player. yes. No doubt about it.

These stats are greatly enhanced by his steroid/growth hormone/cattle enhancing drug use, though.

 

At his pre-steroid pace, he would have probably ended around 450-500 home runs.

His increased home run totals earned him hundreds of walks which inflated his on base percentage.

Alot of his home runs would have been flyouts without the boost that roids gave him, so drop the average and hits significantly.

The only stats that aren't chemically enhanced are the gold gloves and stolen bases.

 

I'm not going to sit here just because I hate him and diminish how great a player he was, but he's nowhere near the best player ever. Argueably top twenty, though.

 

That's funny Newbie, I just went to baseball-reference.com and this is what I saw.

 

7 MVPs

8 Gold Gloves

12 Silver Sluggers

2 Batting titles

Career 1.053 ops

700+ home runs

2300+ walks

500+ Stolen bases

2700+ hits

 

I'm sorry you can't read that well. Until I don't see those #'s, they are what they are. hth

 

 

 

best player EVER.

[NewbieJr 541]

That's funny Newbie, I just went to baseball-reference.com and this is what I saw.

 

7 MVPs

8 Gold Gloves

12 Silver Sluggers

2 Batting titles

Career 1.053 ops

700+ home runs

2300+ walks

500+ Stolen bases

2700+ hits

 

I'm sorry you can't read that well. Until I don't see those #'s, they are what they are. hth

best player EVER.

That same book also says that he hit 73 home runs one year.

Didn't Rosie Ruiz win a Boston Marathon, too?