So sick of the teacher is underpaid crap!

[Cdub100 3,437]

My wife is a first grade teacher and she tells me all the time you can tell which students have support at home and which students don't.

 

It's amazing how sitting down with your child for half an hour to an hour a day helping with school work will do wonders.

 

It's unfortunate that too many parents feel learning starts and ends while at school.

[surferskin 30]

it's shocking that everyone here that's related to teacher think, they're underpaid and do a fantastic job.

[Toro 1]

once again, talking out of both sides of your mouth. you've already said the public schools waste most their money. maybe they might be forced to tighten up the operation if they had the competition.

 

and where have you been? do you really think the best and brightest teach in public schools?

 

I said that there are some misappropriations of money, not "most". Itisatipthatreadingcomprehension. They would also be forced to tighten up if parents and the public (YOU) actually informed yourself about things rather than just throwing vouchers into the argument without thinking first.

 

And again, are you this dense? When I say "best and brightest teachers", I mean the ones that are teachers currently in the public school system.

 

ask toro, he knows things...

 

Obviously more than you, Spicoli.

 

 

 

 

it's shocking that everyone here that's related to teacher think, they're underpaid and do a fantastic job.

 

What's not shocking is it's the same pool of idiots making commentary on issues in which they have no clue what they are talking about.

 

Par for the course, I guess

[KSB2424 3,086]

If I don't do my job at work can I blame somebody else?

[Toro 1]

If I don't do my job at work can I blame somebody else?

 

If you don't do your job and the customer is too stupid or lazy to know the difference and doesn't complain, then you'll be fine.

[Ilov80s 0]

Boy, you contradicted yourself a million times over. You love your unions because you can't get fired...there is no responsibility. yet, Uninos are what keep teachers from being the "Best of the BEst"!!!!

 

I was not debating whether teachers unions are good or bad. They are obviously both. I am reframing the idea of "are teachers overpaid?" The truth is it can be viewed 2 ways: a) current teachers vs. the average white collar worker or the value that our society should place on teachers

 

In a) teachers are overpaid. In teachers are underpaid.

[surferskin 30]

I said that there are some misappropriations of money, not "most". Itisatipthatreadingcomprehension. They would also be forced to tighten up if parents and the public (YOU) actually informed yourself about things rather than just throwing vouchers into the argument without thinking first.

 

And again, are you this dense? When I say "best and brightest teachers", I mean the ones that are teachers currently in the public school system.

Obviously more than you, Spicoli.

What's not shocking is it's the same pool of idiots making commentary on issues in which they have no clue what they are talking about.

 

Par for the course, I guess

i think public school teachers are so great, i married one!

[lennie75 0]

You are discovering what I learned in the Bonds thread yesterday, Lennie just makes up or spouts crap which he knows almost nothing about.

Snoop, Snoop, Snoop...I do not talk about things I know nothing about. I have found statistics that show teachers get paid more than the average person with a bachelors degree. End of story...end of thread...it is not regional...it is nationwide statistics and data!!!!

[Cdub100 3,437]

it's shocking that everyone here that's related to teacher think, they're underpaid and do a fantastic job.

 

Prolly cause we know what they actually do. Dumb asses think it's easy to teach a kid how to read and write and that the teacher rolls in 5 minutes before class starts and leaves 5 minutes after the kids. Ever see parents out in public with more than one kid? Most times everything is so out of control. Imagine trying to control 25-30 kids. Kids that you can't touch without losing your job.

 

Nobody ever mentions the extra training they have to do just to keep their job.

 

That being said, I don't think teachers are under paid I think they make exactly what they should. And if the job is so great than you should do it.

[Birdseed 1]

Have you ever seen what private school teachers make?

 

The teachers at the private schools in my town make about half what the public school teachers make.

 

Also, when testing time comes around, the public schools get their asses kicked.

[Toro 1]

i think public school teachers are so great, i married one!

 

I guess you are done making a fool out of yourself?

 

Here's some help for you next time.

 

http://www.nea.org/vouchers/index.html?sou...school+vouchers

 

HTH.

[Ilov80s 0]

If it is 100% up to the parents to teach the kids then why the fock am I paying taxes?

 

 

Beyond a certain point, it is not the parents job to teach. It is the parents job to make sure that their children are learning.

[pinfish_mauler 0]

Snoop, Snoop, Snoop...I do not talk about things I know nothing about. I have found statistics that show teachers get paid more than the average person with a bachelors degree. End of story...end of thread...it is not regional...it is nationwide statistics and data!!!!

 

Yet you chose to inject commentary into your debate regarding specific things such as why/how lesson plans are created and how a teacher spends each hour of the workday.

 

Apparently, you do talk about things which you know nothing about.

[Guest Davaco]

so they can get the money how ever the fock they want? what was your point? either way they get paid a decent yearly salary and a great one for 9 months of work.

 

my point is, they dont get paid in the summer. you can defer your pay to the summer months, but you are not earning new money in the summer when you arent working.

 

when people say, "they get summers off", yea, but they earn one new cent

[Toro 1]

The teachers at the private schools in my town make about half what the public school teachers make.

 

Also, when testing time comes around, the public schools get their asses kicked.

 

It's a causation issue. The reasons private schools win:

 

1) Rich parents tend to care more about their kids education and thus be more active in it, especially if they are paying buukuu to get it.

2) Private schools don't put up with discipline issues. Those teachers can teach and if your kid keeps interrupting, THEY KICK THE FOCKERS OUT.

3) I am not sure they take the same tests.

[Ilov80s 0]

Snoop, Snoop, Snoop...I do not talk about things I know nothing about. I have found statistics that show teachers get paid more than the average person with a bachelors degree. End of story...end of thread...it is not regional...it is nationwide statistics and data!!!!

 

And people claim teachers are incompetent. It is proof that teachers are smarter then those business majors ever give them credit for.

[Cdub100 3,437]

Also, when testing time comes around, the public schools get their asses kicked.

 

It's not because the teachers are better.

[Snoopy1 0]

Snoop, Snoop, Snoop...I do not talk about things I know nothing about. I have found statistics that show teachers get paid more than the average person with a bachelors degree. End of story...end of thread...it is not regional...it is nationwide statistics and data!!!!

 

 

You have found statistics, that you have yet to share with the board....

 

 

Umm Okay, I have some stats also that teachers only make 8 dollars a year...yeah that's right....

[lennie75 0]

And people claim teachers are incompetent.

Just like Snoop an unqualified rebuttal. Just name call and post no knowledge or evidence...give yourself a pat on the back.

 

I am not saying a teacher's job is easy. I can tell you it is easier than mine....that is why I get paid more money. That doesn't mean I am worth more to society...it is probably the opposite. All I am saying is that when I am ready to wind down and destress a little but still want to work and make an honest pay check...I will become a teacher.

[Cdub100 3,437]

You have found statistics, that you have yet to share with the board....

Umm Okay, I have some stats also that teachers only make 8 dollars a year...yeah that's right....

 

Hey everyone knows statistics are always 100% true and never slant one way or another....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lennie75 0]

You have found statistics, that you have yet to share with the board....

Umm Okay, I have some stats also that teachers only make 8 dollars a year...yeah that's right....

Reread my posts and you will see what I posted.

 

Hey everyone knows statistics are always 100% true and never slant one way or another....

There is nothing to slant. It is the average pay for different parts of teh population. This isn't like a random poll of 100 people.

[frank 2,163]

I have found statistics that show teachers get paid more than the average person with a bachelors degree. End of story...end of thread...it is not regional...it is nationwide statistics and data!!!!

 

 

 

 

Link?

 

also, some teachers have more than a master's degree, so your point doesn't really make sense.

[Snoopy1 0]

It's a causation issue. The reasons private schools win:

 

1) Rich parents tend to care more about their kids education and thus be more active in it, especially if they are paying buukuu to get it.

2) Private schools don't put up with discipline issues. Those teachers can teach and if your kid keeps interrupting, THEY KICK THE FOCKERS OUT.

3) I am not sure they take the same tests.

 

 

With the private school voucher debate, if this were ever to become a reality would that mean tax dollars could go to fund the "Christian School of" of the "Muslim School of..."

 

Could/would tax dollars be used teaching kids that evolution is a crock, that God did everything...??

 

Also, private schools don't need to follow the No Child Left Behind thing do they, since they don't get state/fed tax dollars... Heck they could just pass anyone with a checkbook, if they so desired???? (legitimate question)

 

Reread my posts and you will see what I posted.

There is nothing to slant. It is the average pay for different parts of teh population. This isn't like a random poll of 100 people.

 

 

Then post the link for Christ sake...

[lennie75 0]

Link?

 

also, some teachers have more than a master's degree, so your point doesn't really make sense.

Maybe if you would read you would see that I also broke out salaries for people w/ master's degrees. Sorry, I left out doctorates. But, I seriously doubt (I admit I don't konw) there is a high % of doctorates teaching in the public school system!!!!

[Toro 1]

With the private school voucher debate, if this were ever to become a reality would that mean tax dollars could go to fund the "Christian School of" of the "Muslim School of..."

 

Could/would tax dollars be used teaching kids that evolution is a crock, that God did everything...??

 

Also, private schools don't need to follow the No Child Left Behind thing do they, since they don't get state/fed tax dollars... Heck they could just pass anyone with a checkbook, if they so desired???? (legitimate question)

 

One the first part, I completely agree.

 

Secondly, you got it. Private schools are not required to go through the accredidation processes.

[Ilov80s 0]

Just like Snoop an unqualified rebuttal. Just name call and post no knowledge or evidence...give yourself a pat on the back.

 

I am not saying a teacher's job is easy. I can tell you it is easier than mine....that is why I get paid more money. That doesn't mean I am worth more to society...it is probably the opposite. All I am saying is that when I am ready to wind down and destress a little but still want to work and make an honest pay check...I will become a teacher.

 

I accidentally submitted that post before finishing my thought. If you look back, I have finished my post. It was not a shot at you or your data. I am jokingly insisting that white collar Americans should give teachers more credit for we have made a superior career choice.

[KSB2424 3,086]

Since we have established that it is mostly the parents job to teach our kids, it is now my contention that teachers are overpaid.

[lennie75 0]

I accidentally submitted that post before finishing my thought. If you look back, I have finished my post. It was not a shot at you or your data. I am jokingly insisting that white collar Americans should give teachers more credit for we have made a superior career choice.

I agree with you.

 

I have more respect for a teacher than I do for a lawyer, banker, etc. All I am saying is that I think they are paid fairly.

[surferskin 30]

Since we have established that it is mostly the parents job to teach our kids, it is now my contention that teachers are overpaid.

[Birdseed 1]

With the private school voucher debate, if this were ever to become a reality would that mean tax dollars could go to fund the "Christian School of" of the "Muslim School of..."

 

No, it means that I won't have to pay AS MUCH in taxes to fund the public schools that get their asses kicked at test time.

[Ilov80s 0]

I agree with you.

 

I have more respect for a teacher than I do for a lawyer, banker, etc. All I am saying is that I think they are paid fairly.

 

The way the system is set-up right now in the state of Michigan- yes I agree 100%. I can not comment on teachers in other states because the average rate of pay and cost of living can vary widely.

[surferskin 30]

I guess you are done making a fool out of yourself?

 

Here's some help for you next time.

 

http://www.nea.org/vouchers/index.html?sou...school+vouchers

 

HTH.

wow, a public school website that's against private school vouchers.

 

From your website:

 

Tell Congress to Reject the 'Highly Qualified Effective Teacher' Mandate

 

 

The Commission on No Child Left Behind Feb. 13 proposed changes to the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB) that would add on top of the current "highly qualified" requirements a new "highly qualified effective teacher" requirement. This new mandate would apply to all reading, math, and science teachers, who would be evaluated in large part based on students' standardized test scores.

 

great stuff there.

[Snoopy1 0]

One the first part, I completely agree.

 

Secondly, you got it. Private schools are not required to go through the accredidation processes.

 

 

Well that just doesn't seem like the panacea of solutions that our reps keep touting.

 

By the way, GB your wife! While as a student I didn't appreciate it, thinking back on my time in public school, I realize how grateful I am to all the hard working teachers who spent all the extra time to prepare me for life.

 

 

 

 

 

you're still a tool though

 

Maybe if you would read you would see that I also broke out salaries for people w/ master's degrees. Sorry, I left out doctorates. But, I seriously doubt (I admit I don't konw) there is a high % of doctorates teaching in the public school system!!!!

 

 

So basically you are refusing to post a link to this "data" you have found.

 

Hmmmm, wonder what reason you have for not allowing anyone to see this magical teacher salary report.

[Jessy 0]

1. Average Teacher's Salary - $46,752

2. Average Salary w/ Bachelor Degree - $43,143

 

In 2003-2004:

Average Minnesota teacher's salary: $45,010.

Average beginning teacher's salary in Minnesota: $30,772

 

In 2005:

The average income for adults with a bachelor's degree in Minnesota is higher than the $48,417 national average.

[NewbieJr 541]

There are three reasons that certain careers are rewarded with good pay/benefits.

 

Either, 1) Your job is very difficult. That can because it's dangerous, hard on the body, or takes a certain skill to do. Examples are coal miners, bricklayers, steel workers, ect.

2) Your job generates a lot of revenue for others. Examples are pro athletes or performers.

or

3) Your job is important to the country and community.

 

Teachers fall into the third category. Anyone who proposes that we pay them less or take away some benefits must then accept that you're going to lose the skilled ones and kids will be taught by n'er do wells who are content with $30,000/yr. jobs.

[surferskin 30]

NEA Position on 'Highly Qualified Effective Teacher' Mandate

 

NEA opposes the Commission on No Child Left Behind's proposed "highly qualified effective teacher" (HQET) mandate as an ill-conceived proposal that sets teachers up for failure.

 

* This new mandate would apply to all reading, math, and science teachers. Such teachers would be evaluated in large part based on student learning gains on their students' standardized test scores. Another part of the rating would be based on a principal's evaluation.

 

* Teachers in each state would all be ranked, and those who are in the top 75 percent each year of all teachers would be considered "highly qualified effective teachers." Those in the other 25 percent would have three additional years to meet the mandate and would also receive individualized professional development.

 

* If teachers continue to not meet the HQET mandate, their principal would send a letter to their students' parents informing them their child's teacher was not effective. If after another couple of years they still do not meet this mandate, they would not be allowed to teach in a Title I school.

 

oh the horror...NEA against quality teachers.

[Toro 1]

wow, a public school website that's against private school vouchers.

 

Hey Gidget, a counterargument's points should be judged on their merit, not the source.

[surferskin 30]

Hey Gidget, a counterargument's points should be judged on their merit, not the source.

please, my posts on the NEA's position on the 'Highly Qualified Effective Teacher' Mandate. i couldn't make this shiit up.

[Toro 1]

oh the horror...NEA against quality teachers.

 

So you think teachers placed in poor, urban and downtrodden areas with historically low test scores should be punished for not "being effective"?

 

Again, you think about one foot ahead of where you are walking, huh?

[lennie75 0]

Here is where I think the problem lies in this discussion.

 

Most of us only had, at most, a handfull of teachers in school (K-12) that we actually think made a difference in our lives. While, all the others probably weren't bad...and didn't beat us or humiliate us. They were jsut there...collecting their pay check and leaving at 4 every day. While I am sure there are those that actually stay from 7-5 like some claim...go look at a school parking lot at 4...do it today...I guarnatee it is almost empty!!!

 

I have a lot of family members who are teachers...so I have not been trying to slam the profession. i am just saying that I think they are payed pretty well. And yes this is from my experience and in my region...which happens to be in teh South.

 

I think the biggest problemis that teachers don't really have goals or production measures. Sure there is end of year testing (in my location). But, you do not receive elevations in pay by your performance...it is usually given out based on waht is budgeted for all teachers. This goes back in part again to Unions and/or pretty much any organziation run by the government .