So sick of the teacher is underpaid crap!

[Guest Davaco]

i'm pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about. their pay is spaced out over the whole year.

 

lol, good one, but i have friends that are teachers and they take thier 100% of thier pay over the 9 or so months they work.

 

even if you spaced it out, you still get zero pay for those 3 months they are off. you are simply deferring pay already earned, not earning money

 

hth

[surferskin 30]

lol, good one, but i have friends that are teachers and they take thier 100% of thier pay over the 9 or so months they work.

 

even if you spaced it out, you still get zero pay for those 3 months they are off. you are simply deferring pay already earned, not earning money

 

hth

so they can get the money how ever the fock they want? what was your point? either way they get paid a decent yearly salary and a great one for 9 months of work.

[Toro 1]

yeah, it's the parent's fault our nation is falling behind academically. no, it couldn't be rotten teachers/pubic schools.

 

You can roll your eyes all you want to, but you know it's true.

 

Our kids are fat: It must be the fast food.

Our kids are dumb: It must be the teachers.

Our kids are lazy: It must be the TV.

Our kids are violent: It must be the video games.

Our kids are on drugs: It must be the music.

Our kids are havin sex: It must be their friends and the internets.

 

It's pathetic excuses such as yours that is the cause of it. Quit blaming others for the parents not doing their jobs.

[surferskin 30]

You can roll your eyes all you want to, but you know it's true.

 

Our kids are fat: It must be the fast food.

Our kids are dumb: It must be the teachers.

Our kids are lazy: It must be the TV.

Our kids are violent: It must be the video games.

Our kids are on drugs: It must be the music.

Our kids are havin sex: It must be their friends and the internets.

 

It's pathetic excuses such as yours that is the cause of it. Quit blaming others for the parents not doing their jobs.

yeah, my bad for thinking it was the teachers job to teach.

[Toro 1]

yeah, my bad for thinking it was the teachers job to teach.

 

My bad for thinking you weren't one of the apologists out there making excuses.

[RLLD 4,234]

yeah, my bad for thinking it was the teachers job to teach.

 

I think you are correct in that assertion, no question.

 

BUT! I would submit that it is my job as well. The teacher instructs them during the day, but it is my job as their dad to ensure they are learning. When we see something that concerns us with our kids education, we consult the teacher, if we arent happy with that consultation, we go to the principle.

 

If my child does not learn that I hold myself accountable.

[MDC 7,447]

If anything I think teachers should be paid more. Most people can make better salaries in the private sector, so teaching attracts a lot of dull people who just want a cushy job. Pay teachers better and you can start demanding a higher level of education and making the field more competitive. As is the really good teachers earn every dollar and their thanks is getting sh1t on by ungrateful parents.

 

Also, learning starts at home. There are bad teachers but if students aren't learning it's because they don't want to or conditions in the school are so bad that the teacher spends every class on discipline. It all starts at home and parenting is going to make a bigger difference than anything the teacher can do.

[surferskin 30]

My bad for thinking you weren't one of the apologists out there making excuses.

apologist? i'm not making excuses for stupid teachers.

[Snoopy1 0]

If the geek club is a representive sampling of the US, then teachers are WAY OVERPAID!!!!

 

 

 

 

cause most of you are dumb.

[PackerAttacker 0]

I disagree that teachers have it "easy". Many are hardworking people... yes there are slackers.... just like any profession. (I agree the teachers union helps promote more slackers after tenure). But many teachers care and work hard.

 

However, I am also completely sick of hearing that teachers are underpaid. I know many of these numbers and such are regional... but my best friend got hired as a high school history teacher at 38,000. That better than most of my friends who were buniness majors etc. Hes also guaranteed certain pay raises etc. Hes getting his masters and said hell be well over 50,000 when he gets it. Throw in the fact he can retire around 50/55 with incredible pension... I dont think underpaid is the word.

 

Whose underpaid????? Nurses.

[Toro 1]

apologist? i'm not making excuses for stupid teachers.

 

You are making excuses for stupid (and/or lazy) parents. HTH.

 

I think you are correct in that assertion, no question.

 

BUT! I would submit that it is my job as well. The teacher instructs them during the day, but it is my job as their dad to ensure they are learning. When we see something that concerns us with our kids education, we consult the teacher, if we arent happy with that consultation, we go to the principle.

 

If my child does not learn that I hold myself accountable.

 

[surferskin 30]

You are making excuses for stupid (and/or lazy) parents. HTH.

i'm not totally disagreeing that parent's don't play a role but the public school system sucks. we need private school vouchers, so we can send our kids to schools that actually find the best teachers...not just anyone willing to take the job.

[Toro 1]

i'm not totally disagreeing that parent's don't play a role but the public school system sucks. we need private school vouchers, so we can send our kids to schools that actually find the best teachers...not just anyone willing to take the job.

 

Actually, the school vouchers will cause a bigger headache than you imagine. It will split the money (that is already not there) into so many different pools that it would be hard for a large enough (or stable enough) group to keep a school going. Not too mention the fact that vouchers will basically take every child that has parents that are able to drive them out of the public schools and leaving those children with parents without the same means in a destitute situation.

 

And don't even let me start on the accreditation bureaucracy that would be created.

 

Private school vouchers, or lack of them, is not the problem. Here are the problems:

 

1) Parents don't enforce rules and discipline with their children. Teachers are then required to spend time performing discipline rather than teaching.

2) The teachers are overwhelmed with the amount of "specialty" teaching required nowadays. You'd be amazed what teachers do when you talk to one that has to teach to GT students, illegals kids that speak no english, and a couple of kids with downs all at the same time.

3) Parents don't follow their children's education. They just send them to school and when dinner is on the table, they ask "what did you learn at school" when the parent should already focking know what they are learning and know that the kid should have 2 homework assignments due the next day.

4) The school districts are appropriating money the wrong way. Quit building big football stadiums and spending 100,000's on architecture and aesthetics of a school. Quit worrying about all the other crap and spend it on the kids.

[TheNewGirl 1,496]

You can roll your eyes all you want to, but you know it's true.

 

Our kids are fat: It must be the fast food.

Our kids are dumb: It must be the teachers.

Our kids are lazy: It must be the TV.

Our kids are violent: It must be the video games.

Our kids are on drugs: It must be the music.

Our kids are havin sex: It must be their friends and the internets.

 

It's pathetic excuses such as yours that is the cause of it. Quit blaming others for the parents not doing their jobs.

 

Satan is also wearing a beanie, cause I agree with Toro too.

[mighty_thor 115]

I know that in my school district, the teachers are not underpayed. The high school teachers make an average of $80,000 . Thats pretty damn good with the summers off.

[surferskin 30]

Actually, the school vouchers will cause a bigger headache than you imagine. It will split the money (that is already not there) into so many different pools that it would be hard for a large enough (or stable enough) group to keep a school going...

 

4) The school districts are appropriating money the wrong way. Quit building big football stadiums and spending 100,000's on architecture and aesthetics of a school. Quit worrying about all the other crap and spend it on the kids.

[Jessy 0]

Satan is also wearing a beanie, cause I agree with Toro too.

 

I feel kinda dirty. Maybe if I take a long, hot shower with a really rough scrubber the dirty feeling will go away.

[TD Ryan2 316]

I wouldn't want to be a teacher.

 

but from my experience, it's the administrators that are overpaid, not the actual teachers.

 

School superintendents are the biggest hack/overpaid, red-tape creating, clowns out there and most of them are making double and triple what the teachers make.

 

The problems with our schools is in part because of the "workers" (i.e. teachers), but mostly it's because of poor management, poor budgeting, poor use of resources, etc. You can't just blame the workers when the organization is focked starting at the top.

[Toro 1]

 

Ah, so instead of fixing a couple of things that are wrong with the current system, you would rather scrap the whole thing and leave the poor kids to fend for themselves.

[surferskin 30]

Ah, so instead of fixing a couple of things that are wrong with the current system, you would rather scrap the whole thing and leave the poor kids to fend for themselves.

if we had vouchers the "poor kids" could still go to private schools, genius.

[Rusty Syringes 478]

I don't think teachers are paid enough based on their relative importance to society.

 

I'd like to see the pay increase and then more competition for jobs. That would weed out the crapass teachers. Unless you're teaching high school physics or something, it doesn't seem all that tough to get an education degree.

 

I remember girls in college who were doing addition and subtraction on focking tests.

 

One of the biggest problems for teachers is that it's a female-dominated profession. That means they all start having their periods together and cling to each other to complain about every stupid little thing that comes along, every slight injustice from The Man.

 

Some fresh, freckle-faced teacher comes out of school with dreams of educating Johnny, but then like all the other rookie teachers before her, she gets caught up in the bellyaching collective and soon becomes bitter and jaded just like all the rest of them.

 

If they fostered a positive, passionate and nurturing environment, then we'd have better teachers overall.

 

But they're mostly women, so what do you expect?

 

[Toro 1]

if we had vouchers the "poor kids" could still go to private schools, genius.

 

Really, could they?

 

Who is going to get them there are do you expect a private school to pop up in the middle of the ghetto?

Is one should happen to pop up, where do you think they will get the teachers from?

Do you really expect a teacher to work at a private school in the ghetto for the same as a suburban school?

Have you ever seen what private school teachers make?

 

Sorry dude, not to be rude, but this statement has to be one of the most naive statements I have heard in a long time. You need to seriously think.

[surferskin 30]

Really, could they?

 

Who is going to get them there are do you expect a private school to pop up in the middle of the ghetto?

Is one should happen to pop up, where do you think they will get the teachers from?

Do you really expect a teacher to work at a private school in the ghetto for the same as a suburban school?

Have you ever seen what private school teachers make?

 

Sorry dude, not to be rude, but this statement has to be one of the most naive statements I have heard in a long time. You need to seriously think.

weren't the one just crying "parent's responsibility"? damn, way to talk out of both sides of your mouth.

[Rusty Syringes 478]

If all the poor kids got vouchers to go to private school, then all the non-poor kids could go back to the public schools.

 

BRILLIANT!!!

 

[Ilov80s 0]

This is an old debate: do teachers make too much or too little? I believe teachers are greatly underpaid.

 

Here in Michigan (where I teach), teachers make a good living. If a teacher can stick with it and deal with the insane amount of politics, then they can retire comfortably. How about the job benefits: holidays off, summer vacations, top notch insurance, and one of the strongest unions in the world behind you. Did I mention the guaranteed pay raises and tenure? Talk about job security; tenured teachers are very difficult to fire. Many schools will pay to send their teachers back to college to obtain a higher degree...then they haveto give the person a raise for obtaining that higher degree. This is a great job and given the light of the local economy, it is easily one of the best jobs to have.

 

Now, teaching has plenty of negatives. It is high stress as teachers deal with BS from the government, administrators, school boards, ptos, union reps, parents and students. The job right now is not about teaching, it is about fufilling government programs, meeting state standards, and working the numbers to produce the best statistics. The best interest of the children is lost. It does not matter what the parent, teacher, student, or administrator thinks because the law tells everyone what to do. Not a lot of fun. The intentions were good, but NCLB and special education are nightmares.

 

Teaching is honestly one of the most important jobs in the country, but it is hardly treated as one. These are America's kids and future. That is a major cliche, but it is true. Teaching should be a position of high prestige- like a doctor. Teachers should make a lot of money and be treated to a great deal of benefits because they are "the best of the best"; the top products of America's own education system. Our brightest college students need incentives to become nuclear physicists, brain surgeons, chemical engineers, software designers, teachers, and politicians. America needs better teachers. I am not saying our current teachers are bad. If you are a quality teacher now, then you would thrive in a system that powerfully rewarded quality teachers. I am just saying that making a stronger effort as a country to steer our most ambitious and hard-working students towards the field of teaching would be a wise thing to do.

[Toro 1]

weren't the one just crying "parent's responsibility"? damn, way to talk out of both sides of your mouth.

 

Reasonable expectations.

 

But I guess some parent working two jobs and whose primary mode of transportation is the bus should be able to get their kid to some school 10 miles away.

 

Like I said before, your statements are naive and you sound not so smart.

[lennie75 0]

1. Average Teacher's Salary - $46,752

2. Average Salary w/ Bachelor Degree - $43,143

3. Average Salary w/ master's - $52,390

4. Doesn't look so bad does it.

5. 2-3 months off is still 2-3 months off....don't say you aren't getting paid...you are just getting paid more than you should while you are working.

6. I don't want to hear about working hard. Most teachers get to work around 7...sure. But, dont' complain aobut grading papers at home or other things. What the crap are you doing from the "so called time" you are working between 3-5 (while kids are gone).

7. There is a huge difference between the importance of a job and the difficulty of a job.

8. Who ever is complaining about making lesson plans is just complaining...most teachers use the same lesson plan after they get one worked out. Nothing wrong with this but lets not kid ourselves that teachers spend countless hours trying to schedule a day.

9. Overall teachers have benefits that significantly go beyone the average person's benefit package.

10. All of these problems that teachers face is from Unions. But, most teachers don't want to get rid of unions because it makes there job so darn easy. NO goals, countless days off, out of the office by 4...no way to get fired.

[TD Ryan2 316]

 

3. Average Salary w/ master's - $52,390

4. Doesn't look so bad does it.

 

 

 

certainly the region makes a difference but 52k or 62k or even 72k with a Masters is a freakin' joke.

 

52k would make you just a notch above poor in the Northeast.

[lennie75 0]

This is an old debate: do teachers make too much or too little? I believe teachers are greatly underpaid.

 

Here in Michigan (where I teach), teachers make a good living. If a teacher can stick with it and deal with the insane amount of politics, then they can retire comfortably. How about the job benefits: holidays off, summer vacations, top notch insurance, and one of the strongest unions in the world behind you. Did I mention the guaranteed pay raises and tenure? Talk about job security; tenured teachers are very difficult to fire. Many schools will pay to send their teachers back to college to obtain a higher degree...then they haveto give the person a raise for obtaining that higher degree. This is a great job and given the light of the local economy, it is easily one of the best jobs to have.

 

Now, teaching has plenty of negatives. It is high stress as teachers deal with BS from the government, administrators, school boards, ptos, union reps, parents and students. The job right now is not about teaching, it is about fufilling government programs, meeting state standards, and working the numbers to produce the best statistics. The best interest of the children is lost. It does not matter what the parent, teacher, student, or administrator thinks because the law tells everyone what to do. Not a lot of fun. The intentions were good, but NCLB and special education are nightmares.

 

Teaching is honestly one of the most important jobs in the country, but it is hardly treated as one. These are America's kids and future. That is a major cliche, but it is true. Teaching should be a position of high prestige- like a doctor. Teachers should make a lot of money and be treated to a great deal of benefits because they are "the best of the best"; the top products of America's own education system. Our brightest college students need incentives to become nuclear physicists, brain surgeons, chemical engineers, software designers, teachers, and politicians. America needs better teachers. I am not saying our current teachers are bad. If you are a quality teacher now, then you would thrive in a system that powerfully rewarded quality teachers. I am just saying that making a stronger effort as a country to steer our most ambitious and hard-working students towards the field of teaching would be a wise thing to do.

Boy, you contradicted yourself a million times over. You love your unions because you can't get fired...there is no responsibility. yet, Uninos are what keep teachers from being the "Best of the BEst"!!!!

[bob_probert_2000 1]

ANother point is my wife spends a lot of her own money on supplies and aids for the classroom, not to mention that all of the conferences and master's classes come out of our pockets.

 

This past year we received a $250 tax credit for over 3K in teaching expenses.

[lennie75 0]

certainly the region makes a difference but 52k or 62k or even 72k with a Masters is a freakin' joke.

 

52k would make you just a notch above poor in the Northeast.

Maybe I didn't explain enough. The 52k is the average of all professions w/ Master's. Teh 43k is the average of all professions with at least a Bachelors. The 46k is just a lump of all teachers...so teachers make more than the average of all other professions with at least a bachelors (which is all a teacher needs). And only makes slightly less than the average of all professions with a Master's. Now if you take into effect that a teacher doesn't work 15-20% of the year. I think we can all see that Teachers are paid just about right.

 

 

 

ANother point is my wife spends a lot of her own money on supplies and aids for the classroom, not to mention that all of the conferences and master's classes come out of our pockets.

 

This past year we received a $250 tax credit for over 3K in teaching expenses.

Just wondering...but what in the world did you buy for $3000.

[Toro 1]

1. Average Teacher's Salary - $46,752

2. Average Salary w/ Bachelor Degree - $43,143

3. Average Salary w/ master's - $52,390

4. Doesn't look so bad does it.

5. 2-3 months off is still 2-3 months off....don't say you aren't getting paid...you are just getting paid more than you should while you are working.

6. I don't want to hear about working hard. Most teachers get to work around 7...sure. But, dont' complain aobut grading papers at home or other things. What the crap are you doing from the "so called time" you are working between 3-5 (while kids are gone).

7. There is a huge difference between the importance of a job and the difficulty of a job.

8. Who ever is complaining about making lesson plans is just complaining...most teachers use the same lesson plan after they get one worked out. Nothing wrong with this but lets not kid ourselves that teachers spend countless hours trying to schedule a day.

9. Overall teachers have benefits that significantly go beyone the average person's benefit package.

10. All of these problems that teachers face is from Unions. But, most teachers don't want to get rid of unions because it makes there job so darn easy. NO goals, countless days off, out of the office by 4...no way to get fired.

 

1. Regional

2. Regional

3. Regional

4. Once again, you'll never meet a teacher that makes more than 90k. Imagine working at a job where there is absolutely no financial incentive for being the best.

5. Huh?

6. They are usually in parent/teachers meetings, in administrative meetings and still grading papers or doing other bullsh*t. My wife gets a 15 minute lunch and can't pee throughout the day unless it during that 15 minute period. You are naive about what these people do.

7. It's hard and important.

8. ERRRR!!!! Wrong. There are adjustments every year.

9. This is the second time you have posted this crap. Prove it. Link? Something?

10. The unions are because of the contracts. The school district must follow certain guidelines on firing teachers. But surprisingly, it protects the teachers from the parents. The parents come in on a weekly basis wanting to get a teacher "fired" for treating their kid wrong, such as requiring them to do homework and not talk in class. You want to get rid of the unions, then get ready for teachers to quit on the spot when a parent walks in and starts cussing out a teacher. There is nothing easy about their job, dude.

[TheNewGirl 1,496]

 

Just wondering...but what in the world did you buy for $3000.

 

Some classrooms don't even provide the basics for the kids - including things like pencils, paper, crayons, etc. Classroom projects, or "decorations" might also not be included.

 

Not sure what grade RLLD's wife teaches, but a very close friend of mine teaches 4th grade, and there is MUCH that she has to pay for out of her own pocket and it's the everyday type of stuff.

[surferskin 30]

Reasonable expectations.

 

But I guess some parent working two jobs and whose primary mode of transportation is the bus should be able to get their kid to some school 10 miles away.

 

Like I said before, your statements are naive and you sound not so smart.

if voucher programs were implemented, no one would be forcing people to send their kids to private schools. they could still go the public schools that you claim, don't suck. so i don't know what the fock you're talking about.

[pinfish_mauler 0]

 

8. Who ever is complaining about making lesson plans is just complaining...most teachers use the same lesson plan after they get one worked out. Nothing wrong with this but lets not kid ourselves that teachers spend countless hours trying to schedule a day.

 

This statement shows how ignorant you are when it comes to the profession. While your description is true for a small percentage of teachers, the majority must complete new lesson plans each year for avariety of reasons:

 

1. The course content/curriculum has changed. This happens every 4-5 years.

2. The teacher is no longer teaching the same course/grade. This happens often (especially on the HS level) due to changes in population and the needs of the students.

3. Many administrations require lesson plans to be submitted. Even if they are using a "canned" lesson, as you proclaim, the teacher still has to review the plan, change the dates, update the plan for their current classload and submit it.

 

While you have made some valid general points in this thread, your specific knowledge is WAY too limited to try and enter a debate with the expectation that you will prevail. Educate yourself a little more if you want to venture into the specific aspects of a profession.

[Toro 1]

if voucher programs were implemented, no one would be forcing people to send their kids to private schools. they could still go the public schools that you claim, don't suck. so i don't know what the fock you're talking about.

 

Ok, so when 30% of the public school money (from the rich parts of the district that actually pay taxes) leaves with the children who go to private school, you expect the budgets to be there for those children left behind? And you don't think the best and brightest teachers won't leave too?

 

Wow, that sounds like a great way to fix the public school system. Take away the top 25% of the resources.

 

Have you ever actually talked to anyone about this? It sounds like you haven't.

[Snoopy1 0]

1. Regional

2. Regional

3. Regional

4. Once again, you'll never meet a teacher that makes more than 90k. Imagine working at a job where there is absolutely no financial incentive for being the best.

5. Huh?

6. They are usually in parent/teachers meetings, in administrative meetings and still grading papers or doing other bullsh*t. My wife gets a 15 minute lunch and can't pee throughout the day unless it during that 15 minute period. You are naive about what these people do.

7. It's hard and important.

8. ERRRR!!!! Wrong. There are adjustments every year.

9. This is the second time you have posted this crap. Prove it. Link? Something?

10. The unions are because of the contracts. The school district must follow certain guidelines on firing teachers. But surprisingly, it protects the teachers from the parents. The parents come in on a weekly basis wanting to get a teacher "fired" for treating their kid wrong, such as requiring them to do homework and not talk in class. You want to get rid of the unions, then get ready for teachers to quit on the spot when a parent walks in and starts cussing out a teacher. There is nothing easy about their job, dude.

 

 

 

You are discovering what I learned in the Bonds thread yesterday, Lennie just makes up or spouts crap which he knows almost nothing about.

[KSB2424 3,148]

If it is 100% up to the parents to teach the kids then why the fock am I paying taxes?

[surferskin 30]

Ok, so when 30% of the public school money (from the rich parts of the district that actually pay taxes) leaves with the children who go to private school, you expect the budgets to be there for those children left behind? And you don't think the best and brightest teachers won't leave too?

 

Wow, that sounds like a great way to fix the public school system. Take away the top 25% of the resources.

 

Have you ever actually talked to anyone about this? It sounds like you haven't.

once again, talking out of both sides of your mouth. you've already said the public schools waste most their money. maybe they might be forced to tighten up the operation if they had the competition.

 

and where have you been? do you really think the best and brightest teach in public schools?

 

If it is 100% up to the parents to teach the kids then why the fock am I paying taxes?

ask toro, he knows things...

[Toro 1]

If it is 100% up to the parents to teach the kids then why the fock am I paying taxes?

 

Are you this dumb?

 

It is the parents responsibility to ensure that there children are getting an education. That typically means making sure they are behaving, doing their homework, studying and making good grades and making sure the teacher is doing her part.