Andre Johnson asks Steve Smith: How's it taste?

[LOD01 196]

-- Steve Smith Upset --

Sun Oct 28, 2007 --from FFMastermind.com

 

AP reports Carolina Panthers WR Steve Smith (2-18) was held without a catch after the opening drive and was seen screaming at QB David Carr on the sidelines late in the game.

[The Moz 69]

Smith should scream at Carr !!! Carr doesn't even look to his side of the field. Steve Smith is maybe the most talented WR in the game and you don't even look at him ???

 

If Carr doesn't start throwing it to Smith Carr might end up killed or beaten half to death !

[drm1125 0]

I watched alot of this game and I just don't get it. Carr never looked for smith!! Is it on purpose or what? I don't own smith this year, I owned him last year and still really like him! He is really talented and amazing!

[LOD01 196]

I watched alot of this game and I just don't get it. Carr never looked for smith!! Is it on purpose or what? I don't own smith this year, I owned him last year and still really like him! He is really talented and amazing!

 

As an AJ owner since his rookie year, this is exactly how it goes. Iv'e seen enough of it to know. Smith is at a serious disadvantage compared to AJ. AJ's size allowed Carr to get him the ball. It was all dink and dunk. The minute they signed Schaub, I predicted that AJ would have the longest catch of his career. It actually happened week 1. Carr is by far the worst ever 5 yerar started in the history of NFL football. He can't read a defense. He can't throw a deep pass. He has no idea there could be a 3rd option downfield. First option is Smith, 2nd is either the TE or the RB on a dink and dunk pass. There will be more of this the rest of the year. Smith will go off again but it won't be on the stat sheet.

[Xeris 0]

I've been on record in several threads stating my optimism for SS with Carr behind center. I honestly thought with a little time Carr and SS could get at least a little chemistry going and that the O coordinator could figure how to get the ball in Smith's hands using plays that Carr would be relatively comfortable with. Unfortunately I was dead wrong. First off, i saw absolutely no attempt to alter the game plan once Vinny was out. Even though Vinny and Carr are two totally different QBs. It would appear that whoever is playing QB will be asked to fit into their system. Secondly, its obvious that Carr has no faith in his ability to throw the ball down the field, checking down way too soon on every play. He has absolutely no poise or confidence whatsoever. I really have no idea what is going on in the minds of the coaching staff or David Carr, but its painfully obvious that he is the square peg trying to fit in the round hole. I honestly can't imagine that after today Carolina will attempt to go forward with Carr as their starting QB.

[The Moz 69]

Fox find Bledsoe's number and call !

[kwyjibo 0]

Nice thread title.

 

Would David Carr even be on an NFL roster if Fresno State hadn't upset Wisconsin his final year of college? I never heard of David Carr until that day. NFL scouts aren't THAT lazy, are they? Seeing Carr's performance to date makes me wonder...

[Gepetto 1,013]

Matt Moore should be ahead of Carr on the depthchart. Moore looked great in pre-season with the Cowboys. When he got in a game during the regular season, he was only in long enough to throw two passes, one was incomplete and the other was a 50 yard bomb for a completion. Matt Mayock said he really liked him after reviewing film.

[Xeris 0]

Nice thread title.

 

Would David Carr even be on an NFL roster if Fresno State hadn't upset Wisconsin his final year of college? I never heard of David Carr until that day. NFL scouts aren't THAT lazy, are they? Seeing Carr's performance to date makes me wonder...

 

Carr has a lot of raw talent. He's got a nice gun and he can throw the ball into tight spots at times. He has very good mobility and contrary to popular belief, he's pretty intelligent. He's not really that bad at making pre-snap reads. His biggest problem is that he does not handle pressure well at all and to further complicate matters, he has poor pocket presence. He can't seem to feel the rush at all, he hurries way too many throws, doesn't stay with his reads and just in general is way too antsy in the pocket. You can't really blame the guy for a lot of that, you just can't get hit as much as he did his rookie year and that not affect you. But still. His confidence is obviously in the toilet. Watching him today, it just looks like the game has never slowed down for him. He really is a mess. Again, I just don't see how he's going to be able to start for them and run that offense.

[Dr. Octopus 0]

I did not see the game. Was Vinny hurt or was he pulled for ineffectiveness?

[LOD01 196]

Nice thread title.

 

Would David Carr even be on an NFL roster if Fresno State hadn't upset Wisconsin his final year of college? I never heard of David Carr until that day. NFL scouts aren't THAT lazy, are they? Seeing Carr's performance to date makes me wonder...

 

I am questioning that as well. There is no doubt there are a lot of clueless scouts, GM's and coaches.

 

Meachem, Jarrett, C. Davis, Ginn were picked ahead of Rice, Jacoby Jones, James Jones and L. Robinson. All because of where they went to school. Not because they were better. They aren't. I had no interest in any 1st round WR pick other than CJ. Not even Bowe..he is a pass dropping machine.

[LOD01 196]

I did not see the game. Was Vinny hurt or was he pulled for ineffectiveness?

 

Achilles. Bad news for Smith owners.

[BiPolarBear 476]

I passed on T.O. to get Steve Smith in my fantasy draft because he was rated the #1WR. Boy did I goof.

[zaurg 0]

I helped convince my wife to start Steve Smith over Colston yesterday ("never bench your studs").

 

1 target in the 2nd half? wtf?

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?g...7&week=REG8

1st Quarter

3-10-CAR 20 (13:39) 16-V.Testaverde pass short left to 89-S.Smith to CAR 28 for 8 yards. PENALTY on IND-23-T.Jennings, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at CAR 20 - No Play.

1-10-CAR 25 (13:09) 16-V.Testaverde pass incomplete short left to 89-S.Smith.

3-5-CAR 30 (12:22) 16-V.Testaverde pass short left to 89-S.Smith to CAR 42 for 12 yards (21-B.Sanders).

1-10-CAR 20 (:42) 16-V.Testaverde pass short right to 89-S.Smith pushed ob at CAR 26 for 6 yards (26-K.Hayden).

2nd Quarter

2-8-CAR 34 (9:58) 16-V.Testaverde pass incomplete deep middle to 89-S.Smith.

3-8-CAR 34 (9:52) 16-V.Testaverde pass incomplete deep left to 89-S.Smith (41-A.Bethea).

2-11-CAR 33 (:05) 16-V.Testaverde pass incomplete deep left to 89-S.Smith (41-A.Bethea).

3rd Quarter

-none-

4th Quarter

1-10-CAR 43 (11:58) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 8-D.Carr pass incomplete short left to 89-S.Smith.

[Mephisto 15]

If it were Chad Johnson or Terrell Owens, MeShawn would be doing some stupidassed interview and calling him on the carpet.

 

Steve Smith has to be at least as much of a dickhole as anyone else who gets lambasted for doing crap like that.

[dragon10 0]

I passed on T.O. to get Steve Smith in my fantasy draft because he was rated the #1WR. Boy did I goof.

 

 

So you took a guy because some Magazine or Web site listed him #1? what if they listed Jabar Gafney #1 would you of taken him? people who draft straight off a list deserve to lose

[zaurg 0]

Keep in mind Smith IS still ranked ahead of TO at the moment. The bad thing about Smith so far this year is the inconsistency... 3 HORRIFIC games with 3 or less FF points (non-PPR).

 

Current WR rankings (non-PPR)

1. Moss, Randy NEP WR 140

2. Edwards, Braylon CLE WR 117

3. Houshmandzadeh, T.J. CIN WR 115

4. Welker, Wes NEP WR 103

5. Burress, Plaxico NYG WR 101

6. Wayne, Reggie IND WR 94

7. Johnson, Chad CIN WR 89

8. Smith, Steve CAR WR 85

9. Owens, Terrell DAL WR 82

10. Holt, Torry STL WR 81

[plasma george 52]

Carr has a lot of raw talent. He's got a nice gun and he can throw the ball into tight spots at times. He has very good mobility and contrary to popular belief, he's pretty intelligent. He's not really that bad at making pre-snap reads. His biggest problem is that he does not handle pressure well at all and to further complicate matters, he has poor pocket presence. He can't seem to feel the rush at all, he hurries way too many throws, doesn't stay with his reads and just in general is way too antsy in the pocket. You can't really blame the guy for a lot of that, you just can't get hit as much as he did his rookie year and that not affect you. But still. His confidence is obviously in the toilet. Watching him today, it just looks like the game has never slowed down for him. He really is a mess. Again, I just don't see how he's going to be able to start for them and run that offense.

This is dead on, great post.

 

Many times throughout the game, the pocket would be formed, and Carr "could" sit in there to go through his reads, but he doesn't....he gets nervous, steps up or out of the pocket, the OL has no idea where he is, and he winds up getting sacked, or running for a few yards.

I yelled at the TV many times throughout the game.

This HAS to be seen by the Coaching staff in the film sessions, and they have to get Carr to address this.

If not, they need to get a QB in there who can sit in a pocket....like Vinny.

[LOD01 196]

This is dead on, great post.

 

Many times throughout the game, the pocket would be formed, and Carr "could" sit in there to go through his reads, but he doesn't....he gets nervous, steps up or out of the pocket, the OL has no idea where he is, and he winds up getting sacked, or running for a few yards.

I yelled at the TV many times throughout the game.

This HAS to be seen by the Coaching staff in the film sessions, and they have to get Carr to address this.

If not, they need to get a QB in there who can sit in a pocket....like Vinny.

 

 

In Houston this was always blamed on the OL or WR's or anyone but the actual source himself, the John Gotti of QB's, David Carr.

[p00h 85]

Carr has raw talent in that he has physical talent. To say he is intelligent, in the context of football and more importantly quarterbacking, is absurd. He is the posterchild of being a product of a run and shoot high powered offense in some WAC/MAC/MWC conference that doesn't amount to much in the NFL. See also, Joey Harrington. WHile the Pac 10 is not the WAC or MWC, it's the next best thing. These QBs play at these schools with high powered offenses where they get 15 seconds in a pristine pocket, and have 4 speedsters running a muck in the secondary. That's great for 400 yard 6 td games, but the NFL is a different beast. These guys have never seen pressure like that, and many of them fold. The flip side are guys like Brady who were never stat mongerers in college, but have a football head that the likes of carr and joey can only dream about. So the combination of being 6'4 and running up stats at fresno state get these guys drafted at #4 overall or whatever. Welcome to the NFL. 5 years later, teams are still stuck on their physical stature and the gun of an arm they possess. All moot points without football brain. Meanwhile guys like flutie, at all of 5'10'' continue to win for teams, yet have to constantly prove their worth because they aren't 6'5 and have a gun. Sadly, its the culture of the NFL. Stuck on combine numbers and physical strength. While many a position these variables are the key to one's production, QB is not one of those positions. Guys like Carr and Joey don't deserve to even be backups. Because they are 1 step away from being starters, as evident in both carolina and Atlanta. And the outcomes speak for themselves...

[edjr 5,775]

maybe Carr can take off those latently gay gloves and start being a man?

[LOD01 196]

Carr has raw talent in that he has physical talent. To say he is intelligent, in the context of football and more importantly quarterbacking, is absurd. He is the posterchild of being a product of a run and shoot high powered offense in some WAC/MAC/MWC conference that doesn't amount to much in the NFL. See also, Joey Harrington. WHile the Pac 10 is not the WAC or MWC, it's the next best thing. These QBs play at these schools with high powered offenses where they get 15 seconds in a pristine pocket, and have 4 speedsters running a muck in the secondary. That's great for 400 yard 6 td games, but the NFL is a different beast. These guys have never seen pressure like that, and many of them fold. The flip side are guys like Brady who were never stat mongerers in college, but have a football head that the likes of carr and joey can only dream about. So the combination of being 6'4 and running up stats at fresno state get these guys drafted at #4 overall or whatever. Welcome to the NFL. 5 years later, teams are still stuck on their physical stature and the gun of an arm they possess. All moot points without football brain. Meanwhile guys like flutie, at all of 5'10'' continue to win for teams, yet have to constantly prove their worth because they aren't 6'5 and have a gun. Sadly, its the culture of the NFL. Stuck on combine numbers and physical strength. While many a position these variables are the key to one's production, QB is not one of those positions. Guys like Carr and Joey don't deserve to even be backups. Because they are 1 step away from being starters, as evident in both carolina and Atlanta. And the outcomes speak for themselves...

 

Now THAT is what is called a good post.

 

I question how NFL scouts, GM's and coaches cannot see the obvious. I mean Carr sucked for 5 years and they blamed everone but him until there was no one left ot blame. Now he takes his gay circus gloved sideshow to Carolina and screws them up.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

The thing I don't understand is...where is the coaching here?

 

WHy aren't the the Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator, or QB Coach talking to Carr? Like..."Hey Dave...how about you throw a couple passes to that pro-bowl receiver we have over there...he's pretty good."

 

I mean you'd think they would have this conversation with him...right?

[phillybear 365]

Carr has raw talent in that he has physical talent. To say he is intelligent, in the context of football and more importantly quarterbacking, is absurd. He is the posterchild of being a product of a run and shoot high powered offense in some WAC/MAC/MWC conference that doesn't amount to much in the NFL. See also, Joey Harrington. WHile the Pac 10 is not the WAC or MWC, it's the next best thing. These QBs play at these schools with high powered offenses where they get 15 seconds in a pristine pocket, and have 4 speedsters running a muck in the secondary. That's great for 400 yard 6 td games, but the NFL is a different beast. These guys have never seen pressure like that, and many of them fold. The flip side are guys like Brady who were never stat mongerers in college, but have a football head that the likes of carr and joey can only dream about. So the combination of being 6'4 and running up stats at fresno state get these guys drafted at #4 overall or whatever. Welcome to the NFL. 5 years later, teams are still stuck on their physical stature and the gun of an arm they possess. All moot points without football brain. Meanwhile guys like flutie, at all of 5'10'' continue to win for teams, yet have to constantly prove their worth because they aren't 6'5 and have a gun. Sadly, its the culture of the NFL. Stuck on combine numbers and physical strength. While many a position these variables are the key to one's production, QB is not one of those positions. Guys like Carr and Joey don't deserve to even be backups. Because they are 1 step away from being starters, as evident in both carolina and Atlanta. And the outcomes speak for themselves...

 

The MAC has produced a bunch of starting of backup NFL QBs. Basically, this is a high powered offensive conference outside of the BCS. You can't blame the conference, but the individual.

[p00h 85]

The MAC has produced a bunch of starting of backup NFL QBs. Basically, this is a high powered offensive conference outside of the BCS. You can't blame the conference, but the individual.

 

 

Damn near every conference has produced starting and backup NFL QBs. Hell there are college teams that aren't even D1 that have produced hall of fame QBs. I don't quite understand your point. The point I'm making is that all too often QBs from these run and shoot conferences get high regards, top 10 draft picks, 20 mil guaranteed contracts, and they fizzle out. I gave my explanation for why it happens. Doesn't mean every single MAC/WAC qb that ever gets drafted is gonna be garbage. Just pointing out the flaws in the talent evaluation process, not blaming any conferences...

[The Moz 69]

Sorry but there is no chance Carr starts again and lives . Seriously Smitty might actually kill him.

 

Carr goes a whole half and smith gets 1 sh!tty look.

 

who else is a eligible QB there ?

 

Fox -- Call Bledsoe now !

[norseman 0]

So you took a guy because some Magazine or Web site listed him #1? what if they listed Jabar Gafney #1 would you of taken him? people who draft straight off a list deserve to lose

Okay, but that's not particularly fair. Smith clearly had the stats to be considered as the #1 WR this year, and if Delhomme hadn't gotten hurt, he might just be the #1. If you're deciding between Smith and Harrison, CJ, Holt, Wayne, T.O., etc., where there is no obvious choice, you might just allow yourself to be influenced by the recommendation of a mag or website.

 

The point of the original post is well-taken -- with Carr at the helm, Smith has done nothing. With Delhomme and Vinny, however, he exploded in three out of the four games.

[phillybear 365]

Damn near every conference has produced starting and backup NFL QBs. Hell there are college teams that aren't even D1 that have produced hall of fame QBs. I don't quite understand your point. The point I'm making is that all too often QBs from these run and shoot conferences get high regards, top 10 draft picks, 20 mil guaranteed contracts, and they fizzle out. I gave my explanation for why it happens. Doesn't mean every single MAC/WAC qb that ever gets drafted is gonna be garbage. Just pointing out the flaws in the talent evaluation process, not blaming any conferences...

 

I was just of the mindset that conference is irrelevant. Most QBs fizzle out, no matter where they go in the draft. A large majority of QBs never amount to anything. I agree that QBs in the high scoring conferences got more attention, as they have shown an ability to throw the ball around. But QBs for run dominant teams in defensive conferences don't show much of anything in their ability because they don't get the opportunity, and scout have nothing to go on. It's a random crapshoot, but at least the QBs from the WAC, MWC, MAC, Pac 10 have shown the possibility of future success. Personally, I think John Beck from BYU will be very good for the Dolphins, and Colt Brennan of Hawaii is a superstar to come.

 

I guess my point in this rambling post is that a large percentage of QBs will be busts, no matter what conference they play in during their college careers.