If Favre wins the Superbowl

[The Hood 9]

And what about Brady's?

2001 - 24th ( # 6 scoring)

2003 - 7th ( #1 scoring)

2004 - 9th (#3 scoring)

 

You've given Pats fans 201 more rounds of ammo.

 

 

 

 

actually all it proves the NFL is dumb to track Defenses by yards and not points to rank them

[NewbieJr 541]

You've given Pats fans more ammo.

I was just too lazy to look it up myself.

[The Hood 9]

I was just too lazy to look it up myself.

I can't believe it wasn't in your Pats bashing files already.

[reapers69 0]

Oh yeah. I forgot. Belichick got caught the very first (and last) time he ever tried cheating.

 

See that's my fault. I forgot you don't understand what anyone says including yourself. You said we can debate over how much the cheating helped them. So obviously since we were talking about the 2007-2008 Patriots I assumed you were too. But with all that said keep in mind it was common practice throughout the league before this season to do the kind of videotaping they were doing. So while it may have been a fuzy kind of rules violation that wasn't enforced before this season the fact still remains that the NFL caught them and punished them for what they did this year. The burden of proof rests on the shoulders of clowns like you who want to paint your own team as pure as the driven snow and the Patriots as nothing but cheaters, while ignoring the fact that successful former coaches like Jimmy Johnson have said all season long that everyone use to do this stuff. Belicheck is guilty of cheating this season- FACT, Belicheck is guilty of being arrogant enough to ignore the League wide memo stating that this would no longer be tolerated. FACT- the only benefit they received from the videotape siezed by the league during the first half of the Jets game was a rallying point for a team that has circled the wagons in an us against the world approach.

 

So I'll leave the assumptions and conjecture to you. Being in the business of dealing only with facts and proof i'll stick to those.

 

Keep on hating Newbie wouldn't no what to do if you changed.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

1. Brady

2. Montana

3. Favre

4. Elway

5. Marino

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

See that's my fault. I forgot you don't understand what anyone says including yourself. You said we can debate over how much the cheating helped them. So obviously since we were talking about the 2007-2008 Patriots I assumed you were too. But with all that said keep in mind it was common practice throughout the league before this season to do the kind of videotaping they were doing. So while it may have been a fuzy kind of rules violation that wasn't enforced before this season the fact still remains that the NFL caught them and punished them for what they did this year. The burden of proof rests on the shoulders of clowns like you who want to paint your own team as pure as the driven snow and the Patriots as nothing but cheaters, while ignoring the fact that successful former coaches like Jimmy Johnson have said all season long that everyone use to do this stuff. Belicheck is guilty of cheating this season- FACT, Belicheck is guilty of being arrogant enough to ignore the League wide memo stating that this would no longer be tolerated. FACT- the only benefit they received from the videotape siezed by the league during the first half of the Jets game was a rallying point for a team that has circled the wagons in an us against the world approach.

 

So I'll leave the assumptions and conjecture to you. Being in the business of dealing only with facts and proof i'll stick to those.

 

Keep on hating Newbie wouldn't no what to do if you changed.

 

 

Link to it being common place in the NFL to do what they were doing?

There was no fuzzy rules violation at all.

 

Yes...that is the only benefit they received from that tape.

Do you think that is all they had though?

Do you think that if they had more...that it was all just kept on nice labeled tapes that the NFL found and destroyed?

[Dan 66]

See that's my fault. I forgot you don't understand what anyone says including yourself. You said we can debate over how much the cheating helped them. So obviously since we were talking about the 2007-2008 Patriots I assumed you were too. But with all that said keep in mind it was common practice throughout the league before this season to do the kind of videotaping they were doing. So while it may have been a fuzy kind of rules violation that wasn't enforced before this season the fact still remains that the NFL caught them and punished them for what they did this year. The burden of proof rests on the shoulders of clowns like you who want to paint your own team as pure as the driven snow and the Patriots as nothing but cheaters, while ignoring the fact that successful former coaches like Jimmy Johnson have said all season long that everyone use to do this stuff. Belicheck is guilty of cheating this season- FACT, Belicheck is guilty of being arrogant enough to ignore the League wide memo stating that this would no longer be tolerated. FACT- the only benefit they received from the videotape siezed by the league during the first half of the Jets game was a rallying point for a team that has circled the wagons in an us against the world approach.

 

So I'll leave the assumptions and conjecture to you. Being in the business of dealing only with facts and proof i'll stick to those.

 

Keep on hating Newbie wouldn't no what to do if you changed.

 

Please tell me you're not a parent.

[cmkp0819 0]

Do you think that is all they had though?

Do you think that if they had more...that it was all just kept on nice labeled tapes that the NFL found and destroyed?

 

Didn't some of the other stuff they had "mysteriously" disappear?

[reapers69 0]

Jimmy Johnson stated it several times on Fox this season that he did the same stuff when he was coaching and he knows other coaches did it too. Besides why would the Commisioner issue a memo to the whole league if only one team was rumored to be doing it.

 

When I said fuzzy rules violation I was speaking of previous seasons. Obviously the memo stated the fact that this was a rule they would start enforcing this season.

 

 

What does my being a parent have to do with anything I said?

[NewbieJr 541]

Link to it being common place in the NFL to do what they were doing?

There was no fuzzy rules violation at all.

 

Yes...that is the only benefit they received from that tape.

Do you think that is all they had though?

Do you think that if they had more...that it was all just kept on nice labeled tapes that the NFL found and destroyed?

Yeah, really. This is my absolute favorite of the Patriot fans BS logic. How many teams have been fined for this? One. How many lose a draft pick this year? One.

 

The rules violation was crystal clear. Not fuzzy at all.

 

Also, stop drinking the Kool-Aid and realize that thre were/are years and years worth of tapes. That's why Mangini (an ex Belichick assistant) was the one to blow the whistle on him. He knew too much and seen too much. That's why BB hated him for leaving. He felt betrayed.

Funny, I haven't heard a thing about Wade Phillips being pissed off at Sparano for leaving. Go figure.

[cmkp0819 0]

Good article on Spygate.....

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/sports/football/16spy.html

[NewbieJr 541]

What does my being a parent have to do with anything I said?

Because the "everyone else was doing it, too" is a child's favorite when they're caught doing something wrong. Is that an acceptable excuse for them, too?

 

And do you also buy the "I didn't know it was wrong" excuse?

[Sho Nuff 720]

Jimmy Johnson stated it several times on Fox this season that he did the same stuff when he was coaching and he knows other coaches did it too. Besides why would the Commisioner issue a memo to the whole league if only one team was rumored to be doing it.

 

When I said fuzzy rules violation I was speaking of previous seasons. Obviously the memo stated the fact that this was a rule they would start enforcing this season.

What does my being a parent have to do with anything I said?

 

Jimmy Johnson stated they tried to steal signals.

Not that they were taping from the sidelines after a rule was in place prohibiting such actions.

 

The commish put the memo out so as not to single out one individual team.

[Dan 66]

Because the "everyone else was doing it, too" is a child's favorite when they're caught doing something wrong. Is that an acceptable excuse for them, too?

 

And do you also buy the "I didn't know it was wrong" excuse?

 

I'll add this: If your child lies to you, unless your child is very young and you know you caught the problem at the very beginning, you're foolish if you think it's the only time that it's happened. You work to resolve the problem. Unless, of course, you accept his nonsense that he's never lied to you before.

 

I hope that's clear enough.

[reapers69 0]

Yeah, really. This is my absolute favorite of the Patriot fans BS logic. How many teams have been fined for this? One. How many lose a draft pick this year? One.

 

The rules violation was crystal clear. Not fuzzy at all.

 

Also, stop drinking the Kool-Aid and realize that thre were/are years and years worth of tapes. That's why Mangini (an ex Belichick assistant) was the one to blow the whistle on him. He knew too much and seen too much. That's why BB hated him for leaving. He felt betrayed.

Funny, I haven't heard a thing about Wade Phillips being pissed off at Sparano for leaving. Go figure.

 

Once again my reference to fuzzy rules violation was to previous seasons. While were at it how about the link to all these years worth of tapes you speak of. Guys I spend every day of my life dealing in what I can prove. I can think what I want but at the end of the day all that matters is what I can prove. The Patriots cheated this season, got caught and were punished. The league issued a memo saying the practice of sideline videotaping was no longer going to be allowed and if you were caught doing it you would be punished. Kind of obvious that it wasn't enforced before this year. But the fact remains they were caught cheating in the first half of the first game of the season and did not benefit from that tape. You want to theorize about missing tapes and destroyed evidence that's fine. The fact remains the league reviewed what the Patriots gave them. The League seemed satisfied withit. the league punished the Patriots as they saw fit.

[reapers69 0]

Jimmy Johnson stated they tried to steal signals.

Not that they were taping from the sidelines after a rule was in place prohibiting such actions.

 

The commish put the memo out so as not to single out one individual team.

 

 

Did I or did I not acknowledge that the Patriots were arrogant enough to try taping the Jets game after the memo. Did I not acknowledge they were punished for breaking a rule.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Did I or did I not acknowledge that the Patriots were arrogant enough to try taping the Jets game after the memo. Did I not acknowledge they were punished for breaking a rule.

 

You also made claims that everyone else was doing it...with no substance to that claim other than Jimmy Johnson claiming he and other coaches used to steal signs (which is not what NE was busted for).

[Sho Nuff 720]

Once again my reference to fuzzy rules violation was to previous seasons. While were at it how about the link to all these years worth of tapes you speak of. Guys I spend every day of my life dealing in what I can prove. I can think what I want but at the end of the day all that matters is what I can prove. The Patriots cheated this season, got caught and were punished. The league issued a memo saying the practice of sideline videotaping was no longer going to be allowed and if you were caught doing it you would be punished. Kind of obvious that it wasn't enforced before this year. But the fact remains they were caught cheating in the first half of the first game of the season and did not benefit from that tape. You want to theorize about missing tapes and destroyed evidence that's fine. The fact remains the league reviewed what the Patriots gave them. The League seemed satisfied withit. the league punished the Patriots as they saw fit.

 

So you think there was no other tapes?

Why did the NFL then insist that the penalty was for the totality of the crime...and not just for the Jets game?

Do you think they only taped just that game? Nothing else?

Yes...the league reviewed it...punished them, and said it was not just punishment for the one tape.

[reapers69 0]

I'll add this: If your child lies to you, unless your child is very young and you know you caught the problem at the very beginning, you're foolish if you think it's the only time that it's happened. You work to resolve the problem. Unless, of course, you accept his nonsense that he's never lied to you before.

 

I hope that's clear enough.

 

 

Well that really doesn't apply here. Again I'm asking for the evidence and facts. Not opinion.

 

what my children do and how I react to it has nothing to do with the NFL. My point is the haters like Newbie jr start off asking for facts and then slip straight into speculation and rumor. The Patriots were caught cheating and were then punished. I think what upsets so many people is the fact that they've had such an amazing season since then. It seems like they got away with something. In a fair and just world the Patriots would have struggled through a difficult season and a team like the Redskins that fought through real tragedy would be playing in the Superbowl this year. If that had happen I would have been very happy to see Karma does exist but it didn't happen. If the League had decided that the Patriots had to fofiet that first game of the season that would have been fine with me. I think that Bellicheck is obnoxious and arrogant. But I'll still cheer for my team and support them.

 

I am a father of 5 children. 3 in college, one on the high school honor roll and one in and out of trouble basically every day of his life.

[reapers69 0]

So you think there was no other tapes?

Why did the NFL then insist that the penalty was for the totality of the crime...and not just for the Jets game?

Do you think they only taped just that game? Nothing else?

Yes...the league reviewed it...punished them, and said it was not just punishment for the one tape.

 

the post that brought me into this discussion was this

QUOTE(NewbieJr @ Jan 15 2008, 06:55 PM)

Also, you can't simply dismiss the fact that hey were caught cheating this season. You can debate to what extent it helped them, but you can't make the fact simply disappear. Sorry.

 

This is what I have based my position on. I don't care about last season since it was prior to the memo. If you want to think the Patriots are the first team to do this go right ahead. Do we go back through every coach and team owners history and look for any sign of cheating? Excuse me Mr. Phillips it says here you cheated on an exam in college. You sir are a cheater. I don't care about what people think the Patriots did last year or any year before this. They cheated this year and they were punished. That's the bottom line.

 

Newbies point was debating how much that tape benefitted them.

[Sho Nuff 720]

the post that brought me into this discussion was this

This is what I have based my position on. I don't care about last season since it was prior to the memo. If you want to think the Patriots are the first team to do this go right ahead. Do we go back through every coach and team owners history and look for any sign of cheating? Excuse me Mr. Phillips it says here you cheated on an exam in college. You sir are a cheater. I don't care about what people think the Patriots did last year or any year before this. They cheated this year and they were punished. That's the bottom line.

 

Newbies point was debating how much that tape benefitted them.

 

While last season was prior to any memo...the rule was still in place.

I can only go on that the Patriots were the only team to be fined and punished for this.

Did you not just say something about working every day with things you can prove? Then this is your argument? Kind of odd isnt it?

 

They were punished for more than just that one tape...that much has been admitted by the NFL.

[Dan 66]

Well that really doesn't apply here. Again I'm asking for the evidence and facts. Not opinion.

 

what my children do and how I react to it has nothing to do with the NFL. My point is the haters like Newbie jr start off asking for facts and then slip straight into speculation and rumor. The Patriots were caught cheating and were then punished. I think what upsets so many people is the fact that they've had such an amazing season since then. It seems like they got away with something. In a fair and just world the Patriots would have struggled through a difficult season and a team like the Redskins that fought through real tragedy would be playing in the Superbowl this year. If that had happen I would have been very happy to see Karma does exist but it didn't happen. If the League had decided that the Patriots had to fofiet that first game of the season that would have been fine with me. I think that Bellicheck is obnoxious and arrogant. But I'll still cheer for my team and support them.

 

I am a father of 5 children. 3 in college, one on the high school honor roll and one in and out of trouble basically every day of his life.

 

Well, it really does. If the values that you teach your children are not to cheat, not to lie, not to take the Machiavellian stance toward everything they do, then I don't comprehend how you allow such simple vindication for Bill Belichick with the comments you made in your previous posts. I am not spiteful, but I don't buy for a second that he has done nothing else, especially in light of the shady circumstances already existing prior to Spygate.

 

You gloss over the "fuzzy violations" from previous years. I guess beforehand that stance would make sense, with nothing to verify the accusations, kinda like Madden "watering the field" in the 70s. However, when something substantial comes out and confirms the possibility . . . well, I think you get that idea. If a child has suspicious activity, you're going to watch. When it is confirmed, you're going to step in and discipline, or talk, or do what is necessary to set him/her on track.

 

The connection with parenting is rather simple. One's ideals don't change across the scope of their lives. The value system that one holds is what is held. Period. One may mask it, but it is there. My comment, although admittedly sharp, was based on the fact that if you're willing to turn a blind eye toward this situation, what do you with your kids? Again, ideals.

 

I'm glad your kids are doing well; hope #5 comes around. I believe you care about them greatly. Would you buy the crap from their mouths that has spewed forth in defense of the Patriots? Ever? Of course you wouldn't.

 

I have 3.

[reapers69 0]

While last season was prior to any memo...the rule was still in place.

I can only go on that the Patriots were the only team to be fined and punished for this.

Did you not just say something about working every day with things you can prove? Then this is your argument? Kind of odd isnt it?

 

They were punished for more than just that one tape...that much has been admitted by the NFL.

 

I don't actually disagree with your opinion. I just feel that they were caught and punished and for someone like newbie jr to turn every topic on this board into a Patriot bash session is ridiculous.

 

If I arrest you tomorrow for assaulting someone I can feel however I want about it. But, if you go to court and get off easy I don't get to complain to the courts and scream how your a scumbag who's obviously done stuff before that you've never been charged with.

 

I believe the Patriots got off too easy. If the Commsioner was going to go to the trouble of issueing a memo like he did then he should have followed through and levied a more serious punishment. How much would people have loved to sit here today and look at a Patriots team that had only one loss on their record and have it be a forfiet to the Jets for the videotape.

[NewbieJr 541]

Well that really doesn't apply here. Again I'm asking for the evidence and facts. Not opinion.

 

what my children do and how I react to it has nothing to do with the NFL. My point is the haters like Newbie jr start off asking for facts and then slip straight into speculation and rumor.

Bullsh!t.

I know the facts. The Patriots were caught cheating and penalized very heavily. Just because they didn't hand over every tape they possessed, doesn't mean they didn't have more. On the other hand, it also doesn't mean they did have more.

 

As a police officer, if a guy is caught knocking off a liquer store, your instincts tell you that it probably isn't the first, or last, time he's done somthing illegal. Common sense tells you that. Just because you don't have a smoking gun, doesn't mean he's been squeaky clean.

 

As a parent, if your wife tells you one of your kids did something wrong, you would immediately think it's the one who's been in and out of trouble, not the one who's an honor student.

 

People tend to use past experience to judge another's character. Once you're caught cheating, it's a pretty safe bet it wasn't the first or last time. Cheating is rarely a one-time thing. It's a personality trait.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Bullsh!t.

I know the facts. The Patriots were caught cheating and penalized very heavily. Just because they didn't hand over every tape they possessed, doesn't mean they didn't have more. On the other hand, it also doesn't mean they did have more.

 

As a police officer, if a guy is caught knocking off a liquer store, your instincts tell you that it probably isn't the first, or last, time he's done somthing illegal. Common sense tells you that. Just because you don't have a smoking gun, doesn't mean he's been squeaky clean.

 

As a parent, if your wife tells you one of your kids did something wrong, you would immediately think it's the one who's been in and out of trouble, not the one who's an honor student.

 

People tend to use past experience to judge another's character. Once you're caught cheating, it's a pretty safe bet it wasn't the first or last time. Cheating is rarely a one-time thing. It's a personality trait.

 

You're a police officer? BTW - your first paragraph makes absolutely no sense.

[reapers69 0]

Well, it really does. If the values that you teach your children are not to cheat, not to lie, not to take the Machiavellian stance toward everything they do, then I don't comprehend how you allow such simple vindication for Bill Belichick with the comments you made in your previous posts. I am not spiteful, but I don't buy for a second that he has done nothing else, especially in light of the shady circumstances already existing prior to Spygate.

 

You gloss over the "fuzzy violations" from previous years. I guess beforehand that stance would make sense, with nothing to verify the accusations, kinda like Madden "watering the field" in the 70s. However, when something substantial comes out and confirms the possibility . . . well, I think you get that idea. If a child has suspicious activity, you're going to watch. When it is confirmed, you're going to step in and discipline, or talk, or do what is necessary to set him/her on track.

 

The connection with parenting is rather simple. One's ideals don't change across the scope of their lives. The value system that one holds is what is held. Period. One may mask it, but it is there. My comment, although admittedly sharp, was based on the fact that if you're willing to turn a blind eye toward this situation, what do you with your kids? Again, ideals.

 

I'm glad your kids are doing well; hope #5 comes around. I believe you care about them greatly. Would you buy the crap from their mouths that has spewed forth in defense of the Patriots? Ever? Of course you wouldn't.

 

I have 3.

 

I don't vindicate anything that Bellicheck does. I'v said on many occasions that he was arrogant and obnoxious. I've stated that he violated the rules. The fact that I don't allow myself to become so attached to the actions of one sports figure has no basis on how I raise my children, How I serve and protect my community or how I served my country for most of my life. I fought in a war, I get up everyday and put on the uniform and go out in the streets and protect the rights of people like you. If you wish to judge me on my opinions of an entertainment entity like football you go right ahead. that's your right. I don't defend the Patriots right to cheat or suggest that I believe they've never done anything wrong. I simply believe that the league dealt with it as they saw fit. Time to move on the worlds an ugly place and if people continue to view sports the way they view the real world where do we escape to when we need a break.

[redtodd 7]

You dolts turned a Packer thread into a Patriot bashing thread.

[NewbieJr 541]

You're a police officer? BTW - your first paragraph makes absolutely no sense.

Wow. You could use a reading comprehension course.

 

Read farther along in the paragraph that you bolded "As a police officer". You'll see the word "your". I've quoted a gentleman who claims to be a police officer. Sorry if that confuses you.

[DankNuggs 305]

Jimmy Johnson stated they tried to steal signals.

Not that they were taping from the sidelines after a rule was in place prohibiting such actions.

 

The commish put the memo out so as not to single out one individual team.

 

Don't spew conjecture as fact. This is a ridiculous statement.

[DankNuggs 305]

Bullsh!t.

I know the facts. The Patriots were caught cheating and penalized very heavily. Just because they didn't hand over every tape they possessed, doesn't mean they didn't have more. On the other hand, it also doesn't mean they did have more.

 

As a police officer, if a guy is caught knocking off a liquer store, your instincts tell you that it probably isn't the first, or last, time he's done somthing illegal. Common sense tells you that. Just because you don't have a smoking gun, doesn't mean he's been squeaky clean.

 

As a parent, if your wife tells you one of your kids did something wrong, you would immediately think it's the one who's been in and out of trouble, not the one who's an honor student.

 

People tend to use past experience to judge another's character. Once you're caught cheating, it's a pretty safe bet it wasn't the first or last time. Cheating is rarely a one-time thing. It's a personality trait.

Take off the blinders.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Wow. You could use a reading comprehension course.

 

Read farther along in the paragraph that you bolded "As a police officer". You'll see the word "your". I've quoted a gentleman who claims to be a police officer. Sorry if that confuses you.

 

Sorry about that. I am just so used to your fuckups and mis-statements of fact, that I did not get further. I was asking whether you had changed careers

[reapers69 0]

Bullsh!t.

I know the facts. The Patriots were caught cheating and penalized very heavily. Just because they didn't hand over every tape they possessed, doesn't mean they didn't have more. On the other hand, it also doesn't mean they did have more.

 

As a police officer, if a guy is caught knocking off a liquer store, your instincts tell you that it probably isn't the first, or last, time he's done somthing illegal. Common sense tells you that. Just because you don't have a smoking gun, doesn't mean he's been squeaky clean.

 

As a parent, if your wife tells you one of your kids did something wrong, you would immediately think it's the one who's been in and out of trouble, not the one who's an honor student.

 

People tend to use past experience to judge another's character. Once you're caught cheating, it's a pretty safe bet it wasn't the first or last time. Cheating is rarely a one-time thing. It's a personality trait.

 

You're right. Except that again your speaking in opinion not fact. The criminal knocking over the liqour store may or may not have committed a crime before. but when I go to court I can only testify to the liquor sotr robbery. No judge cares what my opinion is about the criminals past. If my wife tells me one of my children did something wrong I can make an immediate assumption but that doesn't mean I charge out the door and deal with a problem until I have the facts.

 

As far as "Once you're caught cheating, it's a pretty safe bet it wasn't the first or last time." just one thought. Everyone had a first time right? No, I'm not suggesting this was thie first time or even the hundreth time the Patriots cheated.

[NewbieJr 541]

Sorry about that. I am just so used to your fuckups and mis-statements of fact, that I did not get further. I was asking whether you had changed careers

Gotcha. If you want to try to play board wise-ass, you might want to take a second to make sure you read the sentence you're trying to ridicule. I'd hate to see you further embarrass yourself.

 

itsatip

[NewbieJr 541]

Everyone had a first time right? No, I'm not suggesting this was thie first time or even the hundreth time the Patriots cheated.

Yeah. You kinda are.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Gotcha. If you want to try to play board wise-ass, you might want to take a second to make sure you read the sentence you're trying to ridicule. I'd hate to see you further embarrass yourself.

 

itsatip

 

Lord knows you know how to embarrass yourself. I really wish that the Iggles were still in it. It would be much more fun that way.

[NewbieJr 541]

Lord knows you know how to embarrass yourself. I really wish that the Iggles were still in it. It would be much more fun that way.

Me, too. They almost beat you with their backup QB. I'd love to see them play now.

[DankNuggs 305]

Not at all.

I am countering the point that Favre won "the heroics of the only kick returner ever to be named MVP I believe."

I pointed out Favre's stats...then the stats of Brady's first SB where he won the MVP.

I think it shows Favre did quite well for himself in that game.

Your fallacy is that MVPs tend to be given to the player involved in the 'gamebreaking' moment of the SB.... Dexter Jackson's interceptions, Desmond Howards huge returns, and Bradys 'Drive'

 

It really isn't about stats for MVPs.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Don't spew conjecture as fact. This is a ridiculous statement.

 

Yeah...like claiming the memo was out there because all of the teams were doing it was fine though huh?

 

Why do you think he put the memo out there?

[DankNuggs 305]

They may have been pass-first, but Marino's weapons- Duper, Clayton, Nat Moore, Jimmy Cefalo, ect., weren't exactly an all-star cast. Sure Duper and Clayton ended up with good numbers during Marino's prime, but I don't think either was an exceptionally great receiver. Probably in the Antonio Freeman category.

Duper and Clayton weren't 'good' ?????? LOL

 

Explain the differences between Antonio Freeman and Marvin Harrison? besides longevity.

[cmkp0819 0]

Your fallacy is that MVPs tend to be given to the player involved in the 'gamebreaking' moment of the SB.... Dexter Jackson's interceptions, Desmond Howards huge returns, and Bradys 'Drive'

 

It really isn't about stats for MVPs.

So by this logic, Vinatieri should of been the MVP.