If Favre wins the Superbowl

[DankNuggs 305]

Super Bowl MVPs are not the ultimate measure of a player. One of Brady's is shaky at best. The Super Bowl is littered with MVPs that were given the award for lack of anyone else, or in some cases, just bad decisions.

 

Not worth mentioning, unless you're ready to put Bradshaw in this argument . . . just saying . . .

Dexter Jackson anyone????

 

 

wonder what he is doing now? LOL

[The Next Generation 11]

Super Bowl MVPs are not the ultimate measure of a player. One of Brady's is shaky at best. The Super Bowl is littered with MVPs that were given the award for lack of anyone else, or in some cases, just bad decisions.

 

Not worth mentioning, unless you're ready to put Bradshaw in this argument . . . just saying . . .

 

Oh, I'm not debating the topic at all. I was initially just addressing the players that were subjectively thrown-out there for the GB SB run. Leaving-out the SB MVP made me think about...SB MVPs. Just adding some facts to the debate. If they're not worth mentioning, so be it.

[parrot 790]

I think you forgot the SB MVP - The Rocket

 

It was Desmond Howard, not the Rocket.

[FantasyBowl33 0]

I'm sorry. You're kidding, right? This paragraph was a joke? You're honestly suggesting that the O-Line can only be deemed great when it gets Pro Bowl bids? You honestly think that's the measure of a great offensive line?

 

I would not suggest that Brady has never thrown under pressure. Every QB has. But his lines have continuously given him an amazing amount of time to throw. Remember the Super Bowl against Carolina, when he won the only Super Bowl MVP that he deserved? Against the best front four in the NFL that year, Brady sat back and had coffee . . . play after play after play. No Pro-Bowlers on that line. Are you going to suggest that they were mediocre? Because you certainly cannot argue that Brady was "buying time" in the collapsing pocket; that would be a lie.

 

Best pocket awareness ever? That's probably overstated, but you're probably a fan. He's very good, but Marino was better - especially before his injury - and it's really not close.

 

Opinion, of course, but I absolutely disagree with your assertion that the line hasn't "been all that."

Didn't say that at all, was just saying that people are looking at this year as the norm for Brady's O-line, which featured 3 Pro Bowlers this year. I've watched every game Brady has ever played, and to think he just sits back there and throws all day is ridiculous. That's why they threw as many screens and dink & dunks as they did, that and the the OL couldn't get a run game going. As the line has gotten progressively better the air attack has opened up. Also watch the carolina SB again, want to see how they hid any weakness or protected Brady from that front four, watch how many times they rolled the pocket out. I'm not saying the Patriot line has been mediocre at all, i'm just saying that they have never been considered the best blocking Ol until this year, you'd be hard pressed to find people that thought they were even top 10 until recently. I remember a couple threads here that rated OLines and no one ever mentioned the Pats. Brady also does a great job working with Koppen in identifying who's coming on blitzes and setting up blocking assignments at the line of scrimmage.

 

Also, I didn't write "best pocket awareness" i wrote "maybe the best pocket awareness" as it's open to opinion.

[The Next Generation 11]

It was Desmond Howard, not the Rocket.

 

True, my bad.

[KSB2424 3,174]

It was Desmond Howard, not the Rocket.

Whatever happened to the Missle?

[The Next Generation 11]

Whatever happened to the Missle?

 

He won a SB w/the Ravens. After that...

[parrot 790]

Favre will break that record if he makes the Superbowl.

 

The record for longest time between superbowl starts by a QB.

 

I heard it a couple days ago.

 

This is one thing that blows my mind. It seems like a lifetime ago sitting there watching that SuperBowl, to think that there may be a rematch and Favre will be the QB doesn't even seem possible when I think about it.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Super Bowl MVPs are not the ultimate measure of a player. One of Brady's is shaky at best. The Super Bowl is littered with MVPs that were given the award for lack of anyone else, or in some cases, just bad decisions.

 

Not worth mentioning, unless you're ready to put Bradshaw in this argument . . . just saying . . .

 

Winning one SB MVP is luck. Winning two is not. Winning 2 SB MVP's and a regular season MVP, means that he is probably pretty darn good.

 

I think that Favre's 3 regular season MVP's are pretty impressive as well, so can we get back to him?

[NewbieJr 541]

Winning one SB MVP is luck. Winning two is not. Winning 2 SB MVP's and a regular season MVP, means that he is probably pretty darn good.

 

I think that Favre's 3 regular season MVP's are pretty impressive as well, so can we get back to him?

Hey, fatboy. The Next Generation accidently typed "Rocket Ismail" instead of "Desmond Howard". Aren't you going to point that out to everyone in an attempt to feel like you have more football knowledge than him? Or is that just something you do with members you're obsessed with?

[PatsFanatic 0]

the fact that we are even considering a favre super bowl just shows how he shouldve been MVP...the team shouldve have been 8-8

 

its the nfcs best..a battle between the coach no one wanted and the qb everyone said should leave....

 

tiki barber is the honorary coin flipper

 

So give him the award for the biggest overacheiver or comeback player of the year. MVP goes to the best player and that would be the guy who broke the TD record and led his team to be undefeated.

[bigtuna 0]

good question, but i would say he might be top ten all time, but nowhere near the best. Too many bonehead decisions have gone down on his watch. Those are a huge factor.

 

right now i would rank Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino and Unitas as clearly better players.

 

Staubach would likely be ahead as well.

 

Favre would go into the Elway and Steve Young and Terry Bradshaw category IMO

[PatsFanatic 0]

Hey, fatboy. The Next Generation accidently typed "Rocket Ismail" instead of "Desmond Howard". Aren't you going to point that out to everyone in an attempt to feel like you have more football knowledge than him? Or is that just something you do with members you're obsessed with?

 

I doubt he's more obsessed with you than you are with the Patriots.

[NewbieJr 541]

I doubt he's more obsessed with you than you are with the Patriots.

You're probably right, b ut then again, ESPN is force feeding teh Pats down our throats everyday. I'm just one guy on a messageboard. Problem is, I've made so many points that he has no fact-base responses to, he's turned to the pathetic act of insults, grammar-policing, and name calling.

Sad, really.

[PatsFanatic 0]

This is where Favre is really amazing. He is inargguably at the tailend of his career and he is still the third best QB in the league. I remember Montana looking outright awful in Kansas City(a testement to his age and the talent difference, I imagine). I can remember Unitas playing a few years at the end where he wasn't very good, either. Elway was still very good when he called it quits and it remains to be seen how Manning and Brady will be as they get older and as the surrounding talent levels drop off.

 

The thing about Favre this year is that he's been amazing compared to the last two seasons. In 06 he had a 72.7 QB rating and in 05 he had a 70.9 QB rating. Joe Montana's last two seasons with KC he had a 87.4 and 83.6 QB rating. So while you may remember Montana looking outright awful in KC then I don't even know what that makes Favre's last two seasons before this one where he had 29 (thats ridiculous) and 18 Ints. For their careers Montana had a 92.3 QB rating and Favre has a 85.7 QB rating. Favre has always been more of a gun slinger which leads to more TDs and more INTs. The past few seasons (again before his great 2007) he was hurting his team just as much if not more than helping it.

 

Also, since the SB win Favre really hasn't been all that good in the playoffs including some horrible games.

 

PS - I know this post was made a couple pages ago but I'm just getting into the topic.

[listen2me 23 1,965]

good question, but i would say he might be top ten all time, but nowhere near the best. Too many bonehead decisions have gone down on his watch. Those are a huge factor.

 

right now i would rank Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino and Unitas as clearly better players.

 

Staubach would likely be ahead as well.

 

Favre would go into the Elway and Steve Young and Terry Bradshaw category IMO

 

[listen2me 23 1,965]

The thing about Favre this year is that he's been amazing compared to the last two seasons. In 06 he had a 72.7 QB rating and in 05 he had a 70.9 QB rating. Joe Montana's last two seasons with KC he had a 87.4 and 83.6 QB rating. So while you may remember Montana looking outright awful in KC then I don't even know what that makes Favre's last two seasons before this one where he had 29 (thats ridiculous) and 18 Ints. For their careers Montana had a 92.3 QB rating and Favre has a 85.7 QB rating. Favre has always been more of a gun slinger which leads to more TDs and more INTs. The past few seasons (again before his great 2007) he was hurting his team just as much if not more than helping it.

 

PS - I know this post was made a couple pages ago but I'm just getting into the topic.

 

Put many other QBs in at QB for the Packers during their 4-12 year, even good ones, and they may not win a game.

 

At times Carlyle Holliday and Chris Francis were his #2 and #3 WRs....The team was bad and young. The team is very young this year but doesn't seem to make as many mistakes as that team. Favre would have to tell players where to line up and WRs would constantly run the wrong routes each drive. Each game it seemed like there was someone new from the practice squad, if I recall I think Favre said he didn't even know who they were besides the number and last name on the jersey.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Winning one SB MVP is luck. Winning two is not. Winning 2 SB MVP's and a regular season MVP, means that he is probably pretty darn good.

 

I think that Favre's 3 regular season MVP's are pretty impressive as well, so can we get back to him?

 

But come on...should Brady really have won the MVP in the first SB they won with him?

[KSB2424 3,174]

Obviously this is all more for shitsNgiggles but in my opinion when grading these players it is a hybrid of overall talent, career passing stats, season MVP's, Super Bowl rings, and other factors such as coaching/teammates/clutch factor, ect.

 

Marino is up there because of his stats and talent

Montana and Brady are up there becasue of their SB rings and clutch factor

Manning and Elway are up there because of a mirade of all and 1 SB ring.

 

If Favre was to win his second title the same year he passes all Marino's NFL career passing marks with a team of questionable overall talent I just don't see how you can argue that he is was the best ever. Not to mention the fact that he would be the only one to do it with two different coaches in two different decades.

[Sho Nuff 720]

good question, but i would say he might be top ten all time, but nowhere near the best. Too many bonehead decisions have gone down on his watch. Those are a huge factor.

 

right now i would rank Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino and Unitas as clearly better players.

 

Staubach would likely be ahead as well.

 

Favre would go into the Elway and Steve Young and Terry Bradshaw category IMO

 

So, he has better numbers than Marino...and the Super Bowl win...but he is not as good as Dan?

[PatsFanatic 0]

But come on...should Brady really have won the MVP in the first SB they won with him?

 

Did you watch the final drive of that game?

[listen2me 23 1,965]

Obviously this is all more for shitsNgiggles but in my opinion when grading these players it is a hybrid of overall talent, career passing stats, season MVP's, Super Bowl rings, and other factors such as coaching/teammates/clutch factor, ect.

 

Marino is up there because of his stats and talent

Montana and Brady are up there becasue of their SB rings and clutch factor

Manning and Elway are up there because of a mirade of all and 1 SB ring.

 

If Favre was to win his second title the same year he passes all Marino's NFL career passing marks with a team of questionable overall talent I just don't see how you can argue that he is was the best ever. Not to mention the fact that he would be the only one to do it with two different coaches in two different decades.

 

 

Yea basically....Favre is a combo of all factors.

 

He is easily the most entertaining to watch, he doesn't look like a robot who was programed by the coach, even though many of those programed guys are very sucessful, no knock on good fundamentals. Sort of like Brady is the Duncon of Football. And thats no knock Timmy D is a great player. And Favre is the Garnett ( if he win at least 1 chamionship with Bostan) well at least the Brady/Duncon comparison is good....the Favre/Garnett one not so much....I don't know who to compare Favre too in the NBA.

[DankNuggs 305]

So, he has better numbers than Marino...and the Super Bowl win...but he is not as good as Dan?

this confuses me greatly, much like Hillary Clintons political stance,

 

no one wants to end up like Marino, watch his face when people bring up the 'great ones who never won the big one'

 

Favre > Marino

[listen2me 23 1,965]

Did you watch the final drive of that game?

 

Yea. See thats where I give the MVP to Brady. He didn't have great stats but the clutch drive won the game. Well and the kick.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Did you watch the final drive of that game?

 

Yup.

Nice job only needing a FG.

Is that MVP worthy? IMO, Vin was more clutch.

 

Again...compare it to Favre's stats in the SB vs. the Pats...and tell me which was more MVP worthy?

[The Next Generation 11]

I think the correct answer to greatest QB of all-time is: Dabromjo Monbradinovre

[DankNuggs 305]

Yup.

Nice job only needing a FG.

Is that MVP worthy? IMO, Vin was more clutch.

 

Again...compare it to Favre's stats in the SB vs. the Pats...and tell me which was more MVP worthy?

What more can you ask except for your franchise QB to put you into a position to win the game???

 

That drive was an MVP type drive... Sure favre had better numbers in the game, but you can't really compare the two.

 

I for one put basically no stock in MVP awards, so either way it really doesn't matter, just my angle of a retort.

[DankNuggs 305]

I think the correct answer to greatest QB of all-time is: Dabromjo Monbradinovre

Was that the Bastard love child of Don Majokowski and Yinka Dare?

[Sho Nuff 720]

What more can you ask except for your franchise QB to put you into a position to win the game???

 

That drive was an MVP type drive... Sure favre had better numbers in the game, but you can't really compare the two.

 

I for one put basically no stock in MVP awards, so either way it really doesn't matter, just my angle of a retort.

 

Im not saying the drive was not an MVP type drive or that you can ask anything more than that of him.

But is that drive along worthy of an MVP for the game? IMO, not really.

 

I agree...MVP awards for that are pretty stupid...someone tried bringing them up in this conversation and its pretty foolish.

Favre's SB stats are very very good (for both games). And he has 0 SB MVP awards. Nor do I think he really cares.

[DankNuggs 305]

Im not saying the drive was not an MVP type drive or that you can ask anything more than that of him.

But is that drive along worthy of an MVP for the game? IMO, not really.

 

I agree...MVP awards for that are pretty stupid...someone tried bringing them up in this conversation and its pretty foolish.

Favre's SB stats are very very good (for both games). And he has 0 SB MVP awards. Nor do I think he really cares.

I really doubt he gives a $hit, Desmond Howard is probably bagging groceries right now.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

Do you think Montana could have won a Super Bowl with Freeman, Beebe, Levens, Bennett?

 

Check the offensive rosters of the '81 and '84 Niners (the "pre-Rice" years), and you'll have your answer.

[reapers69 0]

Favre is so unique as a quarterback, it's hard to accurately put him in his place among all-time quarterbacks.

 

He could single-handedly win games for your team that Manning, Brady, Marino, Montana, and Elway couldn't have. At the same time, he would lose games for you that the others wouldn't have.

 

The thing that stands out about Favre to me, is the fact that he produced a lot of great receivers who weren't really all that great. Guys like Antonio Feeman, Robert Brooks, Bill Shroeder, ect. all enjoyed big seasons under Favre and were never very good anywhere else. Brooks was a nobody until Sterling Sharpe retired and he stepped in and became a big numbers guy.

It is mind boggling to think what Favre might have accomplished with a Owens, Moss, Rice, or Holt. Mind boggling.

 

Right on the money Newbie. But I would like to point out also that prior to this season Brady was already in this discussion without Moss. Favre and Brady are very different QBs except in the category of WR talent. Favre had Sharpe for a bit early on and other then Moss Brady has never had a number 1 caliber WR.

 

But with all that said I put Favre and Montana just ahead of Brady at the moment. Bradshaw has no business in this list in my opinion

[donhaas 19]

good question, but i would say he might be top ten all time, but nowhere near the best. Too many bonehead decisions have gone down on his watch. Those are a huge factor.

 

right now i would rank Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino and Unitas as clearly better players.

 

Staubach would likely be ahead as well.

 

Favre would go into the Elway and Steve Young and Terry Bradshaw category IMO

 

Great fishing!!!

Excellent work....

 

 

If you are being sincere and are mildly retarded, I apologize in advance...

[Cuse9 131]

Whatever happened to the Missle?

 

He's a college football analyst on ESPN.

 

Back to Super Bowl MVP's. It's kind of like the Heisman there are some stellar ones and some bad ones. None the less it's an elite and proud group to be in.

 

Montana, Rice, Allen, Elway, Young, Starr, Bradshaw, Swann....there have been some great SB MVP's.

 

As for the original topic. If Favre wins the Super Bowl he won't be the best QB ever. At the same time he will. It all depends on who you ask. The position of QB is already debated by everyone?! Who is the greatest ever? Montana? Elway? Manning? Brady? Starr? Unitas? Graham? Vick? There is no real answer, but it's fun to debate.

[Mackgee 0]

If "IF" was a fifth we would be drunk

[Cuse9 131]

I really doubt he gives a $hit, Desmond Howard is probably bagging groceries right now.

Or on College Gameday with Corso and Herbstreit. Howard falls into a unique category of winning a Heisman and SB MVP. Not many have pulled of that feat!

[Mackgee 0]

Or on College Gameday with Corso and Herbstreit. Howard falls into a unique category of winning a Heisman and SB MVP. Not many have pulled of that feat!

 

Larry Brown and Timmy Smith won the Heisman? :sarcasm:

[bigtuna 0]

Talent.... and how he made the players around him better....

 

Do you think Favre could have won a Super Bowl with Craig, Rice, Taylor, and all the SF monster talent.??

Young did... and rather easily, I might add...

 

Do you think Montana could have won a Super Bowl with Freeman, Beebe, Levens, Bennett?

Could he win it with the youngest team in the league/rebuilding team of this year?

 

Is Elway an elite quarterback because he got destroyed in his prime but road TD's tails to wins later?

Would Elway have been a failure if TD had never come into his life? Or exactly the same QB?

 

Go ahead and speculate on all of these... that's what football forums are for....

talk about leaving out the details.....like Keith Jackson, Reggie White, Robert Brooks, Leroy Butler, Sean Jones, Eugene Robinson, Santana Dotson, Aaron Taylor...they were loaded. and they were not in NE or SF's league in offensive production.

 

as for you thinking i was joking about where i rank Favre....i don't understand. I think ranking him with Elway and Bradshaw is a slight at all.

[Cuse9 131]

Larry Brown and Timmy Smith won the Heisman? :sarcasm:

 

Without checking I know Marcus Allen pulled off the feat and Dorsett maybe? Can't think of anyone else?

[Cuse9 131]

good question, but i would say he might be top ten all time, but nowhere near the best. Too many bonehead decisions have gone down on his watch. Those are a huge factor.

 

right now i would rank Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino and Unitas as clearly better players.

 

Staubach would likely be ahead as well.

 

Favre would go into the Elway and Steve Young and Terry Bradshaw category IMO

 

I don't see how you can rank Marino ahead of Elway. Elway did alot more with less. Marino has better numbers simply because he ran an offense that didn't try to run. I can respect your opinion, but having Manning ahead of Elway....what do you base that on?

 

It's an impossible list to get anyone to agree on. Everyone's criteria is so much different.