Cheney, others OK'd harsh interrogations

[Flashover 0]

Cheney, others OK'd harsh interrogations

 

WASHINGTON - Bush administration officials from Vice President ###### Cheney on down signed off on using harsh interrogation techniques against suspected terrorists after asking the Justice Department to endorse their legality, The Associated Press has learned.

 

The officials also took care to insulate President Bush from a series of meetings where CIA interrogation methods, including waterboarding, which simulates drowning, were discussed and ultimately approved.

 

"If you looked at the timing of the meetings and the memos you'd see a correlation," the former intelligence official said. Those who attended the dozens of meetings agreed that "there'd need to be a legal opinion on the legality of these tactics" before using them on al-Qaida detainees, the former official said....

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080411/ap_on_...ogation_tactics

 

 

 

 

 

Remember when the Bush Administration denied that they tortured anyone?

 

This Administration continuously LIES. What a disgrace! And these people are supposed to be the "Patriotic" ones.

[kpbuckeye 2]

that does it, I'm not voting for them in the next election.

Thank you for opening my eyes.

[Angry White Male 0]

[Big Blue 06 195]

that does it, I'm not voting for them in the next election.

Thank you for opening my eyes.

 

[remote controller 136]

Cheney, others OK'd harsh interrogations

 

WASHINGTON - Bush administration officials from Vice President ###### Cheney on down signed off on using harsh interrogation techniques against suspected terrorists after asking the Justice Department to endorse their legality, The Associated Press has learned.

 

The officials also took care to insulate President Bush from a series of meetings where CIA interrogation methods, including waterboarding, which simulates drowning, were discussed and ultimately approved.

 

"If you looked at the timing of the meetings and the memos you'd see a correlation," the former intelligence official said. Those who attended the dozens of meetings agreed that "there'd need to be a legal opinion on the legality of these tactics" before using them on al-Qaida detainees, the former official said....

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080411/ap_on_...ogation_tactics

Remember when the Bush Administration denied that they tortured anyone?

 

This Administration continuously LIES. What a disgrace! And these people are supposed to be the "Patriotic" ones.

I love Cheney even more now! Do ya wanna go Quail hunting with us?

[Angry White Male 0]

[porkbutt 866]

God forbid we are "harsh" on terrorists.

[mighty_thor 115]

This has been out for a while now and its an outrage how low this administration has dragged us down. A lot of long time military guys like Powell were outraged over this. They felt we should follow the Geneva convention. we have followed the same code of conduct with regards to prisoners since Lincoln first layed it down. We have fought Viet Cong, Nazis and Fanatical Japenese with it. But Cheney and Runsfeld just brushed it aside.

[remote controller 136]

What a pack of flaming sissies! The one thing we have done wrong is not being harsh enough with these enemies of our freedoms. Fock all of them!

[mighty_thor 115]

McCain on torture:

 

“One of the things that kept us going when I was in prison in North Vietnam was that we knew that if the situation were reversed, that we would not be doing to our captors what they were doing to us,” he said.

 

“I want to tell you. Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson and Mitt Romney all think it is O.K.,” Mr. McCain told the diners in Boone. “They have one thing in common. They don’t understand the military and the culture of this nation. If they did, they could never condone such behavior.”

 

Mr. McCain said he had no idea how the issue of torture would affect the primaries and caucuses. As he traveled across Iowa one day last week, he reviewed a new CNN poll that found 69 percent of Americans believed waterboarding was torture. But only 58 percent thought it should not be used on terrorism suspects.

 

Aware that many people might not even know what the technique involves, Mr. McCain often outlines its details.

 

“You incline someone’s head and stuff a rag in their mouth and pour water and give one the total sensation of drowning,” he told the breakfast diners in Boone. “It was invented in the Spanish inquisition and was used by Pol Pot. It is now being used on Burmese monks by this military junta in Burma.”

 

“I know how evil this enemy is,” Mr. McCain told the Boone audience. But the issue is about more than one technique, he said. “This is really fundamentally about what kind of nation the United States of America is.”

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/us/polit...amp;oref=slogin

[Cruzer 1,993]

my position has been, and will continue to be: terrorists are not protected under the articles of the geneva convention. theses pigs are not military people - to associate them with such is a disgrace to those who wear the uniform.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

This has been out for a while now and its an outrage how low this administration has dragged us down. A lot of long time military guys like Powell were outraged over this. They felt we should follow the Geneva convention. we have followed the same code of conduct with regards to prisoners since Lincoln first layed it down. We have fought Viet Cong, Nazis and Fanatical Japenese with it. But Cheney and Runsfeld just brushed it aside.

 

Do a little research into what went on during WWII in the Pacific island battles. I was watching a show a while back about it. They interviewed soldiers who were there. In the beginning the grunts were getting leave and/or time in the rear for capturing prisoners. That practice stopped, and the "taking of prisoners" practically stopped. They said food, water, supplies, and manpower to deal with prisoners were scarce, so they started putting a bullet in their head.

 

Is that how Lincoln "layed it out"?

 

LMAO at you asshats whining about "harsh treatment" of terrorists.

[Angry White Male 0]

McCain on torture:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/us/polit...amp;oref=slogin

LOL. Who gives a PHUCK what that RINO thinks? He's just another puzzay whining asshat more worried about the terrorists than about Americans.

[TD Ryan2 315]

God forbid we are "harsh" on terrorists.

 

“Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you dont talk about at parties, you don’t want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post."

[gocolts 300]

my position has been, and will continue to be: terrorists are not protected under the articles of the geneva convention. theses pigs are not military people - to associate them with such is a disgrace to those who wear the uniform.

No uniform, no honor, no country, NOTHING. The use the rules of war against us and then some puzzies want to give them a focking lawyer. Unbelievable!!!

[mighty_thor 115]

“Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you dont talk about at parties, you don’t want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post."

 

"And you're under arrest, you son of a biitch"

[wiffleball 4,660]

Look, I'm all for doing what the fock ever we can think of to actual terrorists. Rip their anuses out for all I care.

 

 

HOWEVER:

 

There's a word you kids have all missed - "SUSPECTED".

 

 

We have focked up on who is and is not a terrorist so many times it's not even funny. We don't hear that much because we don't WANT to hear that - and because our Government doesn't talk about those fock ups.

 

 

So now, imagine that you're a Candian (just to take out the "citizen" part - and because we've actually screwed up on innocent Canadians), your neighbor gets mad at you and calls the CIA, or your ID has been lifted by a terrorist and:

 

 

1) You're siezed in middle of the night and flown to Guantanamo without being charged.

 

2) Your family has no idea who took you, where they took you or why.

 

3) You're held for years without so much as being told why. Your family still has no idea where you are.

 

4) On a regular basis you are beaten, tortured, sleep deprived, and water boarded.

 

5) Then, 9 years later, you're released without so much as an apology.

 

...And therein lies the problem. "Suspected". I know there's a bunch of internet tuff guy chicken hawks who'll throw out bullshiit like "collateral damage" , but that's horseshiit.

 

- And that's why we have to be GD careful on this shiit. McCain gets it. We have taken innocent Afghanis out of the country and done exactly as I've described. WTF do you think step #6 is going to be for every one of those guys? - Exactly - Join Al Qaeda, support the Taliban, look the other way when OBL wanders by.

 

And that's something everybody's missing. Suspected ain't convicted. Suspected could be simply a spurned lover or a competing love interest ratting you out for the money the U.S. offers. This has happened, it likely continues to happen. And we take people who might have been allies, or at least ambivalent about us, and turn them - and everyone they talk to - into lifetime sworn enemies.

[Flashover 0]

We can debate if we should torture or not. Look at McCain he has spoke out against torture numerous times yet he's also flipped on this topic but my question is, why did the Bush Administration lie about torturing?

[DAVID RUFFIN 1]

It's not the fact that we torture for information, it's the fact that laws were broken and lies were told.

[kpbuckeye 2]

Look, I'm all for doing what the fock ever we can think of to actual terrorists. Rip their anuses out for all I care.

HOWEVER:

 

There's a word you kids have all missed - "SUSPECTED".

We have focked up on who is and is not a terrorist so many times it's not even funny. We don't hear that much because we don't WANT to hear that - and because our Government doesn't talk about those fock ups.

So now, imagine that you're a Candian (just to take out the "citizen" part - and because we've actually screwed up on innocent Canadians), your neighbor gets mad at you and calls the CIA, or your ID has been lifted by a terrorist and:

1) You're siezed in middle of the night and flown to Guantanamo without being charged.

 

2) Your family has no idea who took you, where they took you or why.

 

3) You're held for years without so much as being told why. Your family still has no idea where you are.

 

4) On a regular basis you are beaten, tortured, sleep deprived, and water boarded.

 

5) Then, 9 years later, you're released without so much as an apology.

 

...And therein lies the problem. "Suspected". I know there's a bunch of internet tuff guy chicken hawks who'll throw out bullshiit like "collateral damage" , but that's horseshiit.

 

- And that's why we have to be GD careful on this shiit. McCain gets it. We have taken innocent Afghanis out of the country and done exactly as I've described. WTF do you think step #6 is going to be for every one of those guys? - Exactly - Join Al Qaeda, support the Taliban, look the other way when OBL wanders by.

 

And that's something everybody's missing. Suspected ain't convicted. Suspected could be simply a spurned lover or a competing love interest ratting you out for the money the U.S. offers. This has happened, it likely continues to happen. And we take people who might have been allies, or at least ambivalent about us, and turn them - and everyone they talk to - into lifetime sworn enemies.

 

Do you know of someone this happened too?

[kpbuckeye 2]

It's not the fact that we torture for information, it's the fact that laws were broken and lies were told.

 

 

Mike has a law of no alias's. Start packing sissy boy.

[TD Ryan2 315]

Do you know of someone this happened too?

 

I do.

 

except when that poor bastard returned to his family, HE WAS MISSING A KIDNEY!

[DAVID RUFFIN 1]

Mike has a law of no alias's. Start packing sissy boy.

 

 

Name calling from a ditto head, I"M SHOCKED.

[GobbleDog 822]

The US shouldn't engage in that crap.

[phillybear 365]

1) You're siezed in middle of the night and flown to Guantanamo without being charged.

 

2) Your family has no idea who took you, where they took you or why.

 

3) You're held for years without so much as being told why. Your family still has no idea where you are.

 

4) On a regular basis you are beaten, tortured, sleep deprived, and water boarded.

 

5) Then, 9 years later, you're released without so much as an apology.

 

If they have a decent retirement plan, I'd rather do this than my current Mon to Friday gig. Where do I sign?

[wiffleball 4,660]

Do you know of someone this happened too?

 

Do I know them personally, no. Do I know OF them? oh hell's yeah. There's been dozens of stories with various aspects of what I described.

 

This Search will get you started, but for you to get really familiar with these stories, you'd have to look in places that you probably don't want to. Our MSM just doesn't report it. But I'd definitely encourage you to do so.

 

But more to the point: Just think of these points:

 

1) Virtually everybody that goes to GB (Guautanamo, not the Packers) does so without ever being charged of a single crime.

 

2) Most of the people who are still AT or have been subsequently released from GB years later haven't been charged.

 

3) Name the number of people who have been detained at GB (or "rendered" elsewhere) successfully convicted. Hint: You can do so on one hand. It's not because the Government wouldn't LOVE to finally put one of these guys on display, it's because after years of interrogation of everyone around them, they just have no case to be made.

 

4) Many who have been released after years of detention and various abuse have been officially exhonerated - quietly.

 

5) This link will show you stories of men released from GB that have joined the effort against us once they returned. Some press labels it "rejoined", but oftentimes, as you start listening to their stories, these are guys who didn't fight before, tried to stay nuetral and see who came out on top - got snagged by the U.S., detained and torturned and THEN and ONLY THEN decided to take up arms against us. - And I gotta tell ya, after some of the stories, I'd do so too.

 

I'll do a seperate post about one guy specifically.

[BLS 313]

I can't even get into this thread. Some of you are so focking one-minded it's unreal.

[wiffleball 4,660]

Here's a really shiity story: Look up the story of Maher Arar

 

 

Dude's a perfectly respectable engineer in Canada. One day, returning from a family vacation in Tunisia, his flight to Canada makes a stop in the U.S. - and the U.S. siezes him. Detains him, renders him to Syria where he is TORTURED FOR A YEAR until he finally makes a false confession. Even WITH the false confession - the Syrians - not exactly nice people - announce after a year of horrific conditions and torture - after a year of investigation by the RCMP, The US, The Syrians - NOBODY can find any link to him and Al Qaeda. - And he's released back to Canada.

 

Fast Forward: Turns out the State Department and the Canadians both focked up. Dude was totally innocent. While the Canadians have not only officially exhonerated him and apologized (and paid a healthy settlement) Negroleeza Rice STILL hasn't apologized.

 

 

Dude is my age. Married has kids. Had been a Canadian citizen for 20 years. Left Syria at 17. Went to college, got a job, paid his taxes, raised a family - Did NOTHING wrong. And one day, the US snatches him and tortures him (or better yet - renders him and outsources the torture).

 

And yet, not only has the US not even so much as even focking apologized, he and his entire family are still on "the watch list" . - Which, if you know ANYthing about this focking list - it's an abolute joke. Some terrorist one time signed into the Ogalala Holiday Inn as John Smith and now every John Smith is on the wait list. - And despite lawsuit after lawsuit, thousands of innocent Americans - Priests, Elderly white women - you name it - are on this focking list.

 

That's our government.

 

And that's why we shouldn't torture people we merely "suspect" - Because over government is a cadre of ass-covering fock-ups.

 

 

Oh and BTW: Ask yourself: How much coverage did the American MSM give this story? How many of you are hearing this for the first time?

[kpbuckeye 2]

Name calling from a ditto head, I"M SHOCKED.

 

 

am I shocked that you whine about name calling and in that very same sentence you name call?

not really, you are not that bright to begin with.

[DAVID RUFFIN 1]

Here's a really shiity story: Look up the story of Maher Arar

Dude's a perfectly respectable engineer in Canada. One day, returning from a family vacation in Tunisia, his flight to Canada makes a stop in the U.S. - and the U.S. siezes him. Detains him, renders him to Syria where he is TORTURED FOR A YEAR until he finally makes a false confession. Even WITH the false confession - the Syrians - not exactly nice people - announce after a year of horrific conditions and torture - after a year of investigation by the RCMP, The US, The Syrians - NOBODY can find any link to him and Al Qaeda. - And he's released back to Canada.

 

Fast Forward: Turns out the State Department and the Canadians both focked up. Dude was totally innocent. While the Canadians have not only officially exhonerated him and apologized (and paid a healthy settlement) Negroleeza Rice STILL hasn't apologized.

Dude is my age. Married has kids. Had been a Canadian citizen for 20 years. Left Syria at 17. Went to college, got a job, paid his taxes, raised a family - Did NOTHING wrong. And one day, the US snatches him and tortures him (or better yet - renders him and outsources the torture).

 

And yet, not only has the US not even so much as even focking apologized, he and his entire family are still on "the watch list" . - Which, if you know ANYthing about this focking list - it's an abolute joke. Some terrorist one time signed into the Ogalala Holiday Inn as John Smith and now every John Smith is on the wait list. - And despite lawsuit after lawsuit, thousands of innocent Americans - Priests, Elderly white women - you name it - are on this focking list.

 

That's our government.

 

And that's why we shouldn't torture people we merely "suspect" - Because over government is a cadre of ass-covering fock-ups.

 

 

It must be a cold day in hell, I actually agree with Wiff on this one.

[phillybear 365]

Here's a really shiity story: Look up the story of Maher Arar

Dude's a perfectly respectable engineer in Canada. One day, returning from a family vacation in Tunisia, his flight to Canada makes a stop in the U.S. - and the U.S. siezes him. Detains him, renders him to Syria where he is TORTURED FOR A YEAR until he finally makes a false confession. Even WITH the false confession - the Syrians - not exactly nice people - announce after a year of horrific conditions and torture - after a year of investigation by the RCMP, The US, The Syrians - NOBODY can find any link to him and Al Qaeda. - And he's released back to Canada.

 

Fast Forward: Turns out the State Department and the Canadians both focked up. Dude was totally innocent. While the Canadians have not only officially exhonerated him and apologized (and paid a healthy settlement) Negroleeza Rice STILL hasn't apologized.

Dude is my age. Married has kids. Had been a Canadian citizen for 20 years. Left Syria at 17. Went to college, got a job, paid his taxes, raised a family - Did NOTHING wrong. And one day, the US snatches him and tortures him (or better yet - renders him and outsources the torture).

 

And yet, not only has the US not even so much as even focking apologized, he and his entire family are still on "the watch list" . - Which, if you know ANYthing about this focking list - it's an abolute joke. Some terrorist one time signed into the Ogalala Holiday Inn as John Smith and now every John Smith is on the wait list. - And despite lawsuit after lawsuit, thousands of innocent Americans - Priests, Elderly white women - you name it - are on this focking list.

 

That's our government.

 

And that's why we shouldn't torture people we merely "suspect" - Because over government is a cadre of ass-covering fock-ups.

Oh and BTW: Ask yourself: How much coverage did the American MSM give this story? How many of you are hearing this for the first time?

 

That guy is a total assh0le. Who the fock vacations in Tunisia? Guilty. If you don't want to be tortured, sit at home and behave dagblammit.

 

I wish I could have cut off his ear and yelled into the bloody stump.

[wiffleball 4,660]

It must be a cold day in hell, I actually agree with Wiff on this one.

 

Thank you.

 

 

That's the problem; On paper, it SOUNDS great: "Oh HELL yeah, torture the fock outta them murdering rag-heads!!"

 

And I totally agree.

 

Until you realize that most of these guys detained have not only not been charged, but have been subsequently released (after years of detainment and torture) without so much as a parking ticket.

 

When we start snatching innocent men from their families and torturing them without a shred of solid proof of wrongdoing, we have become what we abhor.

[Cruzer 1,993]

i do know this: since W started torturing terrorists the US and it's installations have endured 0 attacks by said terrorists. i believe the previous administration had what, 8 or 9?

[wiffleball 4,660]

That guy is a total assh0le. Who the fock vacations in Tunisia? Guilty. If you don't want to be tortured, sit at home and behave dagblammit.

 

I wish I could have cut off his ear and yelled into the bloody stump.

 

Philly - I love you man.

[phillybear 365]

When we start snatching innocent men from their families and torturing them without a shred of solid proof of wrongdoing, we have become what we abhor.

 

Paparazzi?

[DAVID RUFFIN 1]

am I shocked that you whine about name calling and in that very same sentence you name call?

not really, you are not that bright to begin with.

 

 

Wow, Ditto Head must have hit a nerve.

[wiffleball 4,660]

i do know this: since W started torturing terrorists the US and it's installations have endured 0 attacks by said terrorists. i believe the previous administration had what, 8 or 9?

 

So, you're not counting the thousands of attacks that have been committed against Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan?

 

Isn't that what you always say "fighting over there so we don't have to fight them here?"

 

Which is it? Because Bush is telling me that it's terrorists that we're fighting "over there". So, Bush has had what - 6-7,000 Americans killed by terrorists on his watch? Thousands of individual bombings on U.S. personnel and its installations.

 

But I'll tell ya whut; There's one telecommunications engineer in Canada that will think twice about travelling to Tunisia. THERE'S a victory in the WOT, huh? Think THAT little gem won't be used in every madrassa and AQ recruitment campaign in the middle east?

[Cruzer 1,993]

So, you're not counting the thousands of attacks that have been committed against Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan?

this a war.

[TD Ryan2 315]

So, they've got the guy in custody who knows the location of the bomb that's going to blow up the stadium that your entire family happens to be at with 50,000 other people.

And they've tried everything from free HD Cable to filet mignon but that rascal still won't give up that darned secret location. I can't even imagine what they should try next; I hope it's not something too mean though.

[wiffleball 4,660]

this a war.

 

Funny. Only Congress can declare war. They haven't. But that's a technicality, huh?

 

Okay, let's leave out the Military. - Even though George tells us it's the terrorists (not insurgents pissed off at us for being there) that are attacking us thousands of times a year.

 

What about the 1,000 civilian contractors killed by terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan? What about the tens of thousands of attacks against U.S. civilians in Afghan and Iraq? Wouldn't those be terrorist attacks against the U.S. and it's installations?

 

I mean, I'm not sure where you get your "8 or 9" from the last administration, but I'm guessing only ONE of those occured on U.S. soil, no? So, I'm confused -what's your criterion? You're at LEAST using the same criterion for both administrations, right? I mean, it'd be pretty slimy not to huh?