Kobe or Micheal debate?

[edjr 5,591]

I don't know. Why hasn't Kobe won or hardly had that great of teams since Shaq left. The Lakers had 1 or 2 bad years. All I know is Shaq was the most dominant player of this era. Was he the best? No. But most dominating.

 

Ok, I'll give you that.

[IGotWorms 3,342]

 

This is a ridiculous debate. First of all, as someone else said, Jordan had the ability to absolutely destroy opponents, which Kobe does not have. Secondly, MJ was the biggest competitor the game has ever seen--all he cared about was winning. Kobe likes to win, of course, but he is much more interested in his own achievements. Third, the supporting cast comparisons are just ridiculous. Jordan didn't have much to work with on any of those Bulls teams, IMO. Yeah, Pippen was there, but would Pippen have done nearly as well without MJ? I seriously doubt it. Outside of Pippen, MJ had only serviceable role-players to work with (with the exception of Rodman for a time, but don't forget Rodman was a real liability on offense).

 

Jordan was and will always be THE one and only greatest player to ever play the game.

[KSB2424 3,085]

Kobe = Jordan Lite

 

No matter if Kobe wins more rings or more MVP's or what have you, he will always seem to be a Jordan wanna be. From the way he walks, talks, even his jump shot. He has modeled his game after MJ since he was a kid. It is very apparant. When Jordan came on the scene it was new. Sure there were athletes like Dr.J and Gervin. And players like Magic and Oscar. But nothing quite like MJ.

 

The original > The sequel

[listen2me 23 1,549]

I think MJ>>Kobe.

 

But I want people to know i'm not hating on Kobe. He is the best player in teh game today. And when its all said and done will be top 10 of all time. But I think Mike is #1.

[DankNuggs 305]

This isn't even a debate.

 

Bird, Magic and Jordan are in another stratosphere from Kobe. Its not even close.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

This is a ridiculous debate. First of all, as someone else said, Jordan had the ability to absolutely destroy opponents, which Kobe does not have. Secondly, MJ was the biggest competitor the game has ever seen--all he cared about was winning. Kobe likes to win, of course, but he is much more interested in his own achievements. Third, the supporting cast comparisons are just ridiculous. Jordan didn't have much to work with on any of those Bulls teams, IMO. Yeah, Pippen was there, but would Pippen have done nearly as well without MJ? I seriously doubt it. Outside of Pippen, MJ had only serviceable role-players to work with (with the exception of Rodman for a time, but don't forget Rodman was a real liability on offense).

 

Jordan was and will always be THE one and only greatest player to ever play the game.

Steve Kerr was money. Johnny Paxson? Bill cartwright?

 

 

ya jordan played with a buncha stiffs.

[Eagles Green 34]

Raping white girls >>> Gambling problem causing the murder of your father.

[Snoopy1 0]

Kobe is the one who sent MJ into retirement. I watched a game and Kobe went one on one with MJ part of the game, before MJ left the Bulls. MJ couldn't handle Kobe. MJ took one look across the court and saw Kobe and said fock this sh!t, I am outta here.

 

 

So MJ was with the Bulls and got sent into retirement by a game in the Regular season, since as a Bull he won his last game for his 6th NBA title...

[HTH 67]

Jordan was better in every aspect of the game.

 

Shooting, Athletically,Defense.

 

MJ was the best bb player of all time.

 

HTH

[Snoopy1 0]

Not to mention the refs called a foul every time MJ went to the basket. It was ridiculous how many times MJ supposedly drew a foul. I would guess half of all the fouls called against someone guarding MJ were not fouls, more like little gifts.

 

 

Kind of funny...MJ averaged 8.18 FT's per game, Kobe only 7.74. Huge discrepancy.

 

ETA: MJ posted up a lot more than Kobe---more contact in the paint...seems maybe Kobe is the one "drawing" the fouls.

[Snoopy1 0]

Steve Kerr was money. Johnny Paxson? Bill cartwright?

ya jordan played with a buncha stiffs.

 

 

Kerr, Paxson, Cartwright??? Wow...they wouldn't of started for 75% of the league.

[The Hood 9]

Rodman was a shell of his former self by the time he got to the Bulls. HTH.

MJ had help and so does Kobe.

 

 

BTW, shouldn't we at least wait to see if the Lakers even win the title first.  :dunno:

A shell might be going a little far. He still led the league in rebounds per game his 3 years with them and made all defensive first team the first year. Already started on his downside but still very good at what he did and certainly helped those Bulls teams win.

[mighty_thor 115]

Kobe has a better outside shot than Jordan had. Both were excellent but Kobe is a little better.

 

Jordan was better at going to the hoop hard in a half court set.

 

Jordan was stronger than Bryant and could outmuscle opponents on his way to the hoop.

 

Jordan was better at posting up a player and either nailing the fade away or passing to an open man when the coverage swung his way.

 

Kobe may be better in a wide open fast break.

 

Jordan hit a higher percentage of his clutch oportunities.

 

Jordan was a better passer.

 

Jordan was a better rebounder.

 

Jordan and Bryant were equal at free throw shooting.

 

Intangibles: Jordan was a better leader and a smarter player.

 

Overall Jordan was better. Kobe has a chance to move closer if he wins this championship.

[IGotWorms 3,342]

Kerr, Paxson, Cartwright??? Wow...they wouldn't of started for 75% of the league.

 

 

Each of those players were bench guys, at best. Kerr was probably the only one that would crack a regular rotation on a decent team...maybe Cartwright just because of his size.

[Day Old Doughnut 0]

Kobe is the one who sent MJ into retirement. I watched a game and Kobe went one on one with MJ part of the game, before MJ left the Bulls. MJ couldn't handle Kobe. MJ took one look across the court and saw Kobe and said fock this sh!t, I am outta here.

 

lol, yeah it was Kobe that put him into retirement. His age had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was all Kobe.

[surferskin 30]

To all that thought Jordan's supporting cast was garbage, how the hell did they win 55 games the year after he retired the first time and come a bad foul call away from the eastern conference finals?

[KSB2424 3,085]

To all that thought Jordan's supporting cast was garbage, how the hell did they win 55 games the year after he retired the first time and come a bad foul call away from the CONFERENCE finals?

fixed

[surferskin 30]

fixed

Just fixed it. Still, that team would have went to the finals had that terrible foul not get called.

[KSB2424 3,085]

Just fixed it. Still, that team would have went to the finals had that terrible foul not get called.

Jordan's supporting cast was pretty good and better than people give them credit for, I'll give you that. No one player can win it on their own as the NBA has to many good teams. HOWEVER, On the same note Shaq went to the Finals at age 22 with the Magic. Pau Gasol let the focking Grizzlies to the Western Conference playoffs two years in a row for pete's sake. At best it is a wash for Kobe when comparing supporting cast over their respective careers YTD.

[surferskin 30]

Jordan's supporting cast was pretty good and better than people give them credit for, I'll give you that. No one player can win it on their own as the NBA has to many good teams. HOWEVER, On the same note Shaq went to the Finals at age 22 with the Magic. Pau Gasol let the focking Grizzlies to the Western Conference playoffs two years in a row for pete's sake. At best it is a wash for Kobe when comparing supporting cast over their respective careers YTD.

Hey, I said earlier in this thread that Jordan was better and I don't think any amount of championships Kobe may or may not win is going to change that but the people trying to support their Jordan arguments are way off base by saying he did everything alone.

[gocolts 300]

lol, yeah it was Kobe that put him into retirement. His age had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was all Kobe.

[GeminiV 0]

Yeah, Pippen was there, but would Pippen have done nearly as well without MJ? I seriously doubt it.

 

Pippen had his career highs in scoring (22 ppg) and rebounding (8.7 rpg) without Jordan.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

No matter if Kobe wins more rings or more MVP's or what have you, he will always seem to be a Jordan wanna be. From the way he walks, talks, even his jump shot.

 

[Me_2006 14]

The fact that we're comparing Kobe to Jordan answers this question. I had a poster of Kobe when I was younger that had personal info and stuff on the back and he said "I don't want to be the next Michael Jordan. I want to be the first Kobe Bryant." I love Kobe, but it's Jordan, although I think one-on-one Kobe beats MJ.

[surferskin 30]

The fact that we're comparing Kobe to Jordan answers this question. I had a poster of Kobe when I was younger that had personal info and stuff on the back and he said "I don't want to be the next Michael Jordan. I want to be the first Kobe Bryant." I love Kobe, but it's Jordan, although I think one-on-one Kobe beats MJ.

One on one, MJ is abusing Kobe worse than that young white girl from Colorado.

[Me_2006 14]

One on one, MJ is abusing Kobe worse than that young white girl from Colorado.

I dunno. I think Kobe is the better individual talent, but Jordan was the better team basketball player. Kobe's offensive repertoire is insane.

[surferskin 30]

I dunno. I think Kobe is the better individual talent, but Jordan was the better team basketball player. Kobe's offensive repertoire is insane.

I think if you got a chance to see Jordan in his prime you'd feel different. Jordan just had a competitive fire that you don't see in Kobe. Not to mention that Jordan was physically a lot stronger than Kobe and a MUCH better defender.

[Me_2006 14]

I think if you got a chance to see Jordan in his prime you'd feel different. Jordan just had a competitive fire that you don't see in Kobe. Not to mention that Jordan was physically a lot stronger than Kobe and a MUCH better defender.

This is probably true, although Kobe looks absolutely unguardable at times and with having the better outside shot, I could see him beating Jordan.

[windycityguy 1]

With out Pippen he might not have won any rings.

 

If he played with Shaq and any 10 guys from this site he would have won every year.

[listen2me 23 1,549]

With out Pippen he might not have won any rings.

 

If he played with Shaq and any 10 guys from this site he would have won every year.

 

I like this statement. Its basically true. Everyone needs help. One of the closest things I can remmeber to someone leading a good team by themselves is Iverson taking that 76er team to the fianls. Although they had real good team D. Pippen is a great player, not hating on him. He was placed in the top 50 of all time, even though I'm not sure I would put him there. But Shaq in his Prime was a top 10 or 15 player of all time, and the most unstoppable at that time.

[corky 0]

This isn't even a debate.

 

Bird, Magic and Jordan are in another stratosphere from Kobe. Its not even close.

[Me_2006 14]

I like this statement. Its basically true. Everyone needs help. One of the closest things I can remmeber to someone leading a good team by themselves is Iverson taking that 76er team to the fianls. Although they had real good team D. Pippen is a great player, not hating on him. He was placed in the top 50 of all time, even though I'm not sure I would put him there. But Shaq in his Prime was a top 10 or 15 player of all time, and the most unstoppable at that time.

LeBron last year should be mentioned as well.

[TylerRoseFan 16]

Pippen was GREAT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

as a roll player. He was selfish and a follower. His reaction to the play at the end of the game where Kucok's number was called instead of his is a mirror into his soul. Follower...not a leader. One of the greatest support players ever. Terrible leader. For his to be listed as a member of the all nba 50 year team is a farce.

 

 

That being said: Kobe < Jordan No question about it. Game over.

[KSB2424 3,085]

I was reading a Bill Simmons article today that brought up a great point to this exact question. Jordan played in the days of a much more physical NBA. There was no such thing as a hand check rule. The Bad Boys used to pretty much take his head off during games, hell they named it the "Jordan Rules". Today all 5 Piston starters would have be thrown out of the game for flagrant 2's.

 

The hand check rule makes it almost impossible to stop Kobe right now, but if the game was called like that between 87' and 93' Simmons states that MJ would've averaged 45pts per during that time period. I agree.

[CurleyQ 0]

Interesting debate. I watched a lot of Jordan and have only seen Kobe play a few times, but his die hard followers have certainly not had to convince me very hard how great he is.

 

However, Jordan's competitiveness and "Will to Win", wheteher he was playing basketball, golf or poker is somewhat legendary. I doubt I will ever see anything like it. As a fan, you always knew they could win (I imagine the Kobe fans feel the same about him).

 

Both players have had decent players around them that they both made better. I like Pippen, but is he ever gonna be thought about as one of the best small forwards to ever play the game? I don't think so. He was a very good defender and a nice all around player, but he had no ability to carry a team.

 

Once a guy retires, people tend to forget him and go to the new flavor. That will happen to Kobe someday too. Then the Kobe fans will be defending him against the new kid on the block.

 

Fun argument to follow on the board.

[listen2me 23 1,549]

I was reading a Bill Simmons article today that brought up a great point to this exact question. Jordan played in the days of a much more physical NBA. There was no such thing as a hand check rule. The Bad Boys used to pretty much take his head off during games, hell they named it the "Jordan Rules". Today all 5 Piston starters would have be thrown out of the game for flagrant 2's.

 

The hand check rule makes it almost impossible to stop Kobe right now, but if the game was called like that between 87' and 93' Simmons states that MJ would've averaged 45pts per during that time period. I agree.

 

Yea I don't understand that post earlier in the thread where someone complained of how every call was given to MJ, which it wasn't. Today's game is much more of a non-touch league. That is sort of why I don't like it as much. Growing up I really enjoyed the NBA. Now I just see whistle after whistle for basically plays that are 30 feet from the basket. It is so hard to play D now a days, they want more scoring for the fans. Same sort of thing the NFL did with pass int. after the Pats Colts game a few years back. And I hated it. Its already hard enough to be a CB or a defender on an athlete like Kobe.

[edjr 5,591]

When does the Paul Pierce v Michael Jordan debate start?

 

At least Pierce can play defense.

[NewbieJr 540]

When does the Paul Pierce v Michael Jordan debate start?

 

At least Pierce can play defense.

I don't think that last night did anything to put Pierce into Jordan territiry, but it certainly showed the difference between Jordan and Kobe.

 

Does anyone in their right mind think that Michael Jordan would have EVER allowed the opponents to come back like that if the Bulls held that big of a lead? No way in hell.

 

Kobe's a stat monster, but he's not a leader and he's not a champion.

[edjr 5,591]

I don't think that last night did anything to put Pierce into Jordan territiry,

 

 

of course I wasn't being serious, I didn't even watch the second half.

[BMoney 0]

lebron doesnt deserve the smallest of mentions....

 

mj over kobe by far....

 

without pau gasol, kobe couldnt even get the lakers into the playoffs....

 

kobe is todays chris webber.....

 

if webber wouldve had shaq back in the day and refs who werent fixing games vs his team...he'd have a title...