Tough Commish question please respond

[skiman4235 0]

Brief history on the league. 12 team total pot $1500, free pickups and trades very competitive. 1st takes 65% pot. Our playoffs start in week#14 so this was our last week. There was a close race in the one division to make playoffs. Team A was 7-4-1 Team B was 7-5 and Team C was 6-6 with most total fantasy points. Our tie breaker is team with most fantasy points. Team A played Team B and needed to win in order for Team C who also had to win to make playoffs. Well, Team A lost, and Team C won so it appeared Team C would be eliminated from Playoffs.

 

Well this is where is gets hairy. Team C apparently went back and hand scored (we use CBS sportsline) all of his, Team A and Team B scores looking for any possible errors. Low and behold he found one. The week Team A got his tie, C found that Team A actually should have lost because CBS did not credit rivers with his 2 pt. conversion. When you go back and score it, sure enough he's right. This would give Team A a loss and tie him with C for record and Team C would get in to the playoffs by points.

 

When the commish investigated this he found that somehow at some point he accidentaly??? made QB 2 pt. conversions 0 thus why CBS scored it this way. Despite having 2 pt. passing conversions the past 6 years of league and not vote to change it, the commissh states he will not change it because thats how he had it in the rules because he at some point made a mistake. He acknowledges that he made a error, and knows what is right, but will not change it.

 

My question is, what would the rest of you all do. Please give me honest opinions, im not one to take offense and begin attacking people. Just want everyone to have a fair shot.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Well unless you can find out when 2pt conversions went to zero, you leave it as is; Team C no soup for him. Can't change rules after the fact (assuming that stat scoring was like that the whole season).

[yostevo 0]

Whoa nellie. That league is in for a world of hurt. So all QB 2pt. conversions weren't accounted for all year? There could be a bigger mess than you are letting on. If it's in the rulebook to give 2 pts. to a QB for a 2pt. conversion then it is what it is and needs to be changed.

 

If he changes it, it will retroactively change scores for the entire year which means more scores/outcomes will change.

 

It's a terrible terrible mistake but the right thing to do is correct it and move on. I can't see how to argue otherwise. You'd just be compounding the mistake by not counting a stat that your rulebook accounts for.

[skiman4235 0]

Ive personally went back and looked at every game this year, and although it would change a couple scores, none would impact win/loss except for the week in question. The problem is there is no "rule book" per say. If you familiar with CBS sportsline your scoring system shows up under the rules section. The commish to say that since he made the mistake somehow(very fishy) that this became a rule and it will be changed for the start of next year. My thing is...weve had this league for 7 years, WEVE ALWAYS HAD 2 POINT CONVERSIONS FOR QB'S. Any other rule in our league requires voting on by league members to change, so why on earth would this have not required a vote to change it. Ill accept that the commish made the mistake by changing it, but man up and change it back to what the rule was right? Am i that far off?

 

Thanks for the replies, keep em coming.

[IAMWood 6]

Always a stipulation in any league I commish, you are responsible for your own scores. You have until the start of the following week to contest it. So whomever Team A tied with is really to blame. Team C, being in that division should have thought about a tie screwing him and done his homework when it happened. I have played ff ball since 1988, we did all of our scores by hand, if you rely on computers to score it for you, then you are relying on a possibility for errors not by your own doing. As commish, I would not go back and change it. It is in the books.

 

Team C is out, you can't change previous weeks once the new one has started.

 

Some advice

 

Too much money in ff ball makes good friends go bad. It should be for fun, not about money. 65% is also too big of a lump payout. Spread it out more.

 

Put this rule into effect starting now, you are responsible for your own scores, once the next week starts, all scores are final.

 

Go to decimal scoring, ties are rare.

 

[gotoneros 1]

Whats most important is that the right decision is made in the end. If your league has always awarded 2 point conversions and that was the assumption all along this year, then the commish should award the 2 points, admit it was a mistake and take the heat. While he will take crap and endure some embarrassment, this is the lot of us commishes, and thats why being a commish is such a hassle frankly.

[skiman4235 0]

Thanks IAMwood and Gotoneros for the replies.

 

Ill keep everyone posted on what happens. Keep the responses coming, im liking the different perspectives

[norseman 0]

Ive personally went back and looked at every game this year, and although it would change a couple scores, none would impact win/loss except for the week in question. The problem is there is no "rule book" per say. If you familiar with CBS sportsline your scoring system shows up under the rules section. The commish to say that since he made the mistake somehow(very fishy) that this became a rule and it will be changed for the start of next year. My thing is...weve had this league for 7 years, WEVE ALWAYS HAD 2 POINT CONVERSIONS FOR QB'S. Any other rule in our league requires voting on by league members to change, so why on earth would this have not required a vote to change it. Ill accept that the commish made the mistake by changing it, but man up and change it back to what the rule was right? Am i that far off?

 

Thanks for the replies, keep em coming.

As a long-time commish, I believe your commish is doing the right thing. Hard to see how his mistake is "fishy," unless the 2-pt rule change somehow benefited him personally. Regardless, the biggest problem you have is your statement that "there is no 'rule book' per se." If there is no rule book that explicitly states the scoring for 2 pt conversions, and if the scoring rules are there on CBS for everyone to see, and if no one caught this error until now, then I think you have to go with the current results. Then, next year, your commish better have a rule book per se and better share it with everyone in advance of the season for their buyoff, and in that rule book should be a statement that covers this type of situation (owners are responsible for finding errors in their own scores, no changes will be made retroactively after the next week's games have been played, etc.).

 

My two cents. HTH

[NorthernVike 2,080]

Which team is the "commish" better friends with? My bet is team A

 

If your rules have always awarded scoring for 2PT conversions then it should be counted.

 

Did the receiver get his two points from the same play?

[killersquids 3]

Ouch! I'm commish of my long-standing league and this one is clear cut imo. You cannot change the outcome of a game once next week's games start (much less weeks later). It is the owner's job to check scores of a close matchup. Whenver my matchup is within a couple of points, I always check the stats myself. It is inexcusable (and I don't really feel sorry for him) for an owner not to check the stats for a tie game!!

 

I would go in and change the scoring from this point forward to award 2 pts for 2-pt conversions.

[norseman 0]

Ouch! I'm commish of my long-standing league and this one is clear cut imo. You cannot change the outcome of a game once next week's games start (much less weeks later). It is the owner's job to check scores of a close matchup. Whenver my matchup is within a couple of points, I always check the stats myself. It is inexcusable (and I don't really feel sorry for him) for an owner not to check the stats for a tie game!!

 

I would go in and change the scoring from this point forward to award 2 pts for 2-pt conversions.

I don't think you should do that at this point in the season -- very dangerous precedent to set. Make the change for next year's rules, but stick with the same rules you've had this year for the rest of this season.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

Ouch! I'm commish of my long-standing league and this one is clear cut imo. You cannot change the outcome of a game once next week's games start (much less weeks later). It is the owner's job to check scores of a close matchup. Whenver my matchup is within a couple of points, I always check the stats myself. It is inexcusable (and I don't really feel sorry for him) for an owner not to check the stats for a tie game!!

 

I would go in and change the scoring from this point forward to award 2 pts for 2-pt conversions.

 

 

What if the tie is with a team that is out of contention and the owner isn't interested in the outcome. Are all the "other" teams suppose to check each others scores weekly?

 

Tell the focking comish to man up and fix HIS mistake.

[PATSSOX 22]

id have to change to outcome and award the 2 point conversion. yes the rules and scoring system is all listed under rules but if you have played in same league with same rules for 6 years than i would assume rules are same. unless like you said you voted on a change. i would agree it sounds strange that the 2 point was changed.

 

Always a stipulation in any league I commish, you are responsible for your own scores. You have until the start of the following week to contest it. So whomever Team A tied with is really to blame. Team C, being in that division should have thought about a tie screwing him and done his homework when it happened. I have played ff ball since 1988, we did all of our scores by hand, if you rely on computers to score it for you, then you are relying on a possibility for errors not by your own doing. As commish, I would not go back and change it. It is in the books.

 

this sounds like a good idea!!!! it would eliminate any situation like this. but as the problem lies i would have to change the score because everyone was playing under thinking there were 2 points conversions.

[Bert 1,096]

Always a stipulation in any league I commish, you are responsible for your own scores. You have until the start of the following week to contest it. So whomever Team A tied with is really to blame. Team C, being in that division should have thought about a tie screwing him and done his homework when it happened. I have played ff ball since 1988, we did all of our scores by hand, if you rely on computers to score it for you, then you are relying on a possibility for errors not by your own doing. As commish, I would not go back and change it. It is in the books.

 

This is the correct answer.

[shutdown 40]

Brief history on the league. 12 team total pot $1500, free pickups and trades very competitive. 1st takes 65% pot. Our playoffs start in week#14 so this was our last week. There was a close race in the one division to make playoffs. Team A was 7-4-1 Team B was 7-5 and Team C was 6-6 with most total fantasy points. Our tie breaker is team with most fantasy points. Team A played Team B and needed to win in order for Team C who also had to win to make playoffs. Well, Team A lost, and Team C won so it appeared Team C would be eliminated from Playoffs.

 

Well this is where is gets hairy. Team C apparently went back and hand scored (we use CBS sportsline) all of his, Team A and Team B scores looking for any possible errors. Low and behold he found one. The week Team A got his tie, C found that Team A actually should have lost because CBS did not credit rivers with his 2 pt. conversion. When you go back and score it, sure enough he's right. This would give Team A a loss and tie him with C for record and Team C would get in to the playoffs by points.

 

When the commish investigated this he found that somehow at some point he accidentaly??? made QB 2 pt. conversions 0 thus why CBS scored it this way. Despite having 2 pt. passing conversions the past 6 years of league and not vote to change it, the commissh states he will not change it because thats how he had it in the rules because he at some point made a mistake. He acknowledges that he made a error, and knows what is right, but will not change it.

 

My question is, what would the rest of you all do. Please give me honest opinions, im not one to take offense and begin attacking people. Just want everyone to have a fair shot.

 

First - this is an example of why you have a written set of rules outside of your website. We had the same situation arise where in week 3, one of the owners noticed that I made a mistake in setting up the web scoring system and this changed the result of a week 1 game. Because our scoring system is clearly documented in our league rules, I changed the week 1 result to comply with our league rules.

 

As you don't seem to have this fall back, my opinion is as follows...

If your league REQUIRES a league vote to change ALL rules and no vote took place, then the entire league should be re-scored with 2pt conversions. (CBS sportsline will allow you to do this fairly easily).

 

If some rules changes can be made by the commish, without league approval, then the scoring system that was set up are your rules for this year and should NOT be changed.

[yostevo 0]

Ive personally went back and looked at every game this year, and although it would change a couple scores, none would impact win/loss except for the week in question. The problem is there is no "rule book" per say. If you familiar with CBS sportsline your scoring system shows up under the rules section. The commish to say that since he made the mistake somehow(very fishy) that this became a rule and it will be changed for the start of next year. My thing is...weve had this league for 7 years, WEVE ALWAYS HAD 2 POINT CONVERSIONS FOR QB'S. Any other rule in our league requires voting on by league members to change, so why on earth would this have not required a vote to change it. Ill accept that the commish made the mistake by changing it, but man up and change it back to what the rule was right? Am i that far off?

 

Thanks for the replies, keep em coming.

 

I can understand that your rulebook doesn't spell out every little scoring detail because most wouldn't when CBS has it all right there for you but if you have always had 2pointers for QBs in your league and every other position gets credit for a 2pt. conversion with the exception of the QB because of the mistake, then it's silly to not make the change IMO. You said no other game outcomes were actually affected which is key. Make the change. Team C is getting screwed otherwise.

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

This is the correct answer.

 

yup.

 

once the next week's games start, the scores are final.

 

sure, the guy SHOULD have had his score correct in the beginning, but he didn't, and he didn't check it.

 

so to go back now at the end of the year looking for some "mistake" or "loophole" to let you into the playoffs is bush league.

 

 

he got focked out of 2 points (and a win) weeks ago and did nothing.

Sorry.

[Mephisto 15]

I fix the scoring setup error regardless of the effect of any games played this season.

[shutdown 40]

yup.

 

once the next week's games start, the scores are final.

 

sure, the guy SHOULD have had his score correct in the beginning, but he didn't, and he didn't check it.

 

so to go back now at the end of the year looking for some "mistake" or "loophole" to let you into the playoffs is bush league.

he got focked out of 2 points (and a win) weeks ago and did nothing.

Sorry.

 

The game in dispute was not Team C's game. It was a game with Team A and another team. Owners should not be responsible for error checking the results of every game in the league every week in order to correct an error that wasn't made by them just in case some unforeseeable tie occurs at the end of the year. I can understand checking your OWN games every week when they are close, but not others. It's not bush league to expect your league's rules to be properly applied.

[De Novo 0]

As a commish, I would go back and retroactively re-score, unless there was an intent to score it as 0. 2 years ago, I accidently set up Kicker scoring so that a 30-34 yard field goal was worth 6.5 points, while a 35-39 was worth 3.5 (or something along those lines). It was caught around week 6 or 7, and it did change the outcome of an earlier game. I believe this is a comparable situation. I don't think a commissioner error should not adversely impact the outcome of the game.

[TD Ryan2 314]

It's not bush league to expect your league's rules to be properly applied.

 

agreed.

 

it's a tough call either way but I don't think you should go back, by hand, to rescore things.

 

it was an error by the commish but also something that nobody in the league noticed for the whole season, so the fault is on everyone.

 

IMO, you have to live with it and move on, not "go back" and revisit the whole season.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

I don't think you should do that at this point in the season -- very dangerous precedent to set. Make the change for next year's rules, but stick with the same rules you've had this year for the rest of this season.

 

 

You can't go back and change prior results at this point and since it's been that way since the beginning of THIS season and everyone's score was treated equally (forget how it was setup in prior years; it's a MOOT point now) and you let it ride for the rest of the year. Next year set it back and get a commish without the butterfingers.

[yostevo 0]

The game in dispute was not Team C's game. It was a game with Team A and another team. Owners should not be responsible for error checking the results of every game in the league every week in order to correct an error that wasn't made by them just in case some unforeseeable tie occurs at the end of the year. I can understand checking your OWN games every week when they are close, but not others. It's not bush league to expect your league's rules to be properly applied.

This is right and exactly why Team C should not be getting screwed because of someone else's mistake. The "bush league" aspect of all of this is the fact a team, no fault of their own, is missing a playoff spot that shouldn't.

[rdstorm 0]

You can't really change the scoring rules in mid-season, so unless the 2pt conversion was set to 0 after the season started this year it's what you have to live with, mistake or not. If, as it sounds, this scoring error has been in place for years, there really is even less of a reason to change it for Team C at this point. Correct the scoring mistake after the season and get it right for next year; play this year under the rules you've been playing with all along.

[yostevo 0]

I fix the scoring setup error regardless of the effect of any games played this season.

It would be dicier if the error did affect other games, but since it apparently did not, no harm no foul and I agree with you.

[rdstorm 0]

Whats most important is that the right decision is made in the end. If your league has always awarded 2 point conversions and that was the assumption all along this year, then the commish should award the 2 points, admit it was a mistake and take the heat. While he will take crap and endure some embarrassment, this is the lot of us commishes, and thats why being a commish is such a hassle frankly.

 

One thing that should *never* factor into a commish's decision is how much heat he will take. He needs to make the decision based on what is right, not which side will scream the loudest. In this case, he will get heat no matter which way he decides anyway, but the right thing to do is to not take away a win that has been in the books for weeks, not change the league's scoring rules mid season, and make sure the scoring mistake is corrected next year.

[TD Ryan2 314]

but the right thing to do is to not take away a win that has been in the books for weeks, not change the league's scoring rules mid season, and make sure the scoring mistake is corrected next year.

 

 

and again, this is on the league members almost as much as the commish.

 

14 weeks in and you're just noticing now that 2pt conversions weren't being scored correctly?

[Bert 1,096]

Owners should not be responsible for error checking the results of every game in the league every week in order to correct an error that wasn't made by them just in case some unforeseeable tie occurs at the end of the year.

 

Didn't team C do this very thing? How do we know that team C didn't know about the error when tie when it happend and didn't say anything at the time because it hurt both teams? I find it a little suspicious that someone that is anal enough to recalculate every score of every game wouldn't have noticed the error earlier.

[killersquids 3]

As a commish, I would go back and retroactively re-score, unless there was an intent to score it as 0. 2 years ago, I accidently set up Kicker scoring so that a 30-34 yard field goal was worth 6.5 points, while a 35-39 was worth 3.5 (or something along those lines). It was caught around week 6 or 7, and it did change the outcome of an earlier game. I believe this is a comparable situation. I don't think a commissioner error should not adversely impact the outcome of the game.

 

 

Not to get off topic, but I have to comment on this.....how in the world did the entire league miss this until week 6 or 7?? That would be a glaring mistake the first time you saw a kicker's score with a 30-34 yard FG.

[zaurg 0]

Always a stipulation in any league I commish, you are responsible for your own scores. You have until the start of the following week to contest it. So whomever Team A tied with is really to blame. Team C, being in that division should have thought about a tie screwing him and done his homework when it happened. I have played ff ball since 1988, we did all of our scores by hand, if you rely on computers to score it for you, then you are relying on a possibility for errors not by your own doing. As commish, I would not go back and change it. It is in the books.

 

 

To the OP, wow that situation really sucks and probably has the potential of breaking up some of the league. Commish needs to step up, make a sound decision and back it up plenty, hopefully having the majority of the league with him on it.

 

I'd have to go with IAMWood's decision there. It's too late to contest a score for Team C.

[mobb_deep 917]

 

You can't go back and change prior results at this point and since it's been that way since the beginning of THIS season and everyone's score was treated equally (forget how it was setup in prior years; it's a MOOT point now) and you let it ride for the rest of the year. Next year set it back and get a commish without the butterfingers.

 

+1

 

It sucks, but it is the responsibility of the entire league to check the set-up, before the season. I make changes to the scoring in the league I commish almost every year. It's a redraft league, so I don't even find it necessary to have the league vote on any of them (nobody has ever complained about it either). When I send out the "official" league invite, I briefly detail what I've added/removed. I ask the league to check them over and let me know if they see any errors. If nobody says anything, that's the scoring for the year.

[FrankRizzo 0]

As a Commish my vote is NO RETRO CHANGES for previous weeks.

 

I state in our rules that "any errors must be found before the following week's games start, otherwise, all scores will be deemed final."

 

It's just like the PITT D TD that "didn't happen". Sure after the fact the NFL realized they screwed up but they won't go back and give credit to PITT for the defensive TD.

 

Good luck and I hope your league can get past it and continues ...

[skiman4235 0]

Hey everyone thanks for the responses. Its looks to be pretty much half and half.

 

To clarify a few things that ive seen in posts.

 

I believe the change occured preseason when the commish went over to check and make sure scoring was correct (go figure!). I went back and looked and there were no other times when someone started a QB that threw for a 2 pt. conversion except the week in question and actually now this week a guy started Aaron Rodgers. I would assume this is why it was never caught. I am surprised that the team that would benefit from a win didnt catch this, but you surely cant expect Team C to have caught it.

 

When youve been in a league for 7 years, you kinda take for granted that the scoring system is good ESPECIALLY since there has been 0 problems with it the last 7 years. Everyone in this league started the year believing 2pt conversions for QB's would be 2 pt.s There was never a league vote to change the rule, it was changed by pure mistake.

 

I understand peoples views on disputing scores the week they happen, but theres never been that type of rule in this league. My opinion is that the mistake was caught, the 2 pt. conversion score feature should be restored to what it is suppose to be, and scores will retroactively score and things have been made fair. I think it is the right thing to do, Team C wasnt awarded any cheap wins, why should team A? Team A lost fair and square.

 

Like I said, just my opinions I appreciate everyones input! Thanks much.

 

I will keep everyone posted, I should hear something tonight or tommorrow.

[slash 0]

Well unless you can find out when 2pt conversions went to zero, you leave it as is; Team C no soup for him. Can't change rules after the fact (assuming that stat scoring was like that the whole season).

we have a winner

[We Tigers 71]

I think it's too late to retroactively make the change. If Team A had been carrying another loss instead of the tie, Team A's manager might have made different roster choices to pick up additional ground in the standings. The other tying team may have done the same. The ripple effects throughout the league could have changed many weeks in significant ways. Since the erroneous rule has been in effect all year and no one has complained about it until long after the fact, I think you have to leave the scores and rules as they are. To make it up to Team C and to keep good feelings intact, I'd give him back his entry fee and have your end-of-the-year payouts be slightly smaller. It's the best balance between fairness to the rest of the league and correcting a mistake that hurt him specifically.

[Stewburtx8 67]

In my opinion this is the leagues fault for not catching this MUCH MUCH sooner. Does no one read over the rules before the draft. I've been in the same league for years and I still always at least glance over the rules to refresh myself with the scoring system from year to year (especially when im in multiple leagues with different scoring systems).

 

Beyond that, how did no one catch this during the season? Does no one look at their team scoring and notice getting slighted two points at such an important position as QB. By my count there have been 17 completed two point conversions by QB's this season. And your telling me only now someone in the league noticed this? Granted some of the QB's may not have been started, by when i see names such at Rodgers (twice), Rivers (twice), Derek Anderson (twice and was started a lot early in season), Peyton Manning, Cassel, Cutler, etc, I don't see how no one in the league caught this.

 

I'd say you don't retroactively change the scoring this far into the season.

[De Novo 0]

I think it's too late to retroactively make the change. If Team A had been carrying another loss instead of the tie, Team A's manager might have made different roster choices to pick up additional ground in the standings. The other tying team may have done the same. The ripple effects throughout the league could have changed many weeks in significant ways. Since the erroneous rule has been in effect all year and no one has complained about it until long after the fact, I think you have to leave the scores and rules as they are. To make it up to Team C and to keep good feelings intact, I'd give him back his entry fee and have your end-of-the-year payouts be slightly smaller. It's the best balance between fairness to the rest of the league and correcting a mistake that hurt him specifically.

The ripple effect is a concern but I think it's a far greater crime to screw a team out of a win because of commish error.

[plasma george 52]

The ripple effect is a concern but I think it's a far greater crime to screw a team out of a win because of commish error.

No, no, no....it was a commish's error when it happened, but it's now every owners error for not noticing and playing the season with the rules at hand.

 

Commish since the 90s, and this is my nightmare too. It's very easy to have the curser in an important box, unknowingly hit a key before you click "OK", and not know a change until some point down the road. (because it could take weeks for that scenario to be played out)

BUT,

you can't go back and change the scoring.....the ripple effect is real, the games are in the books, it's the ENTIRE LEAGUE'S error and fault at this point, not just the Commish's.

 

GREED is one of the seven deadly sins.

[FrankRizzo 0]

No, no, no....it was a commish's error when it happened, but it's now every owners error for not noticing and playing the season with the rules at hand.

 

Commish since the 90s, and this is my nightmare too. It's very easy to have the curser in an important box, unknowingly hit a key before you click "OK", and not know a change until some point down the road. (because it could take weeks for that scenario to be played out)

BUT,

you can't go back and change the scoring.....the ripple effect is real, the games are in the books, it's the ENTIRE LEAGUE'S error and fault at this point, not just the Commish's.

 

 

GREED is one of the seven deadly sins.

 

[De Novo 0]

No, no, no....it was a commish's error when it happened, but it's now every owners error for not noticing and playing the season with the rules at hand.

 

Commish since the 90s, and this is my nightmare too. It's very easy to have the curser in an important box, unknowingly hit a key before you click "OK", and not know a change until some point down the road. (because it could take weeks for that scenario to be played out)

BUT,

you can't go back and change the scoring.....the ripple effect is real, the games are in the books, it's the ENTIRE LEAGUE'S error and fault at this point, not just the Commish's.

 

GREED is one of the seven deadly sins.

The intent of the rules was to award QBs 2 points for passing TDs. I believe that in the event where intent is aligned with 5 or 6 years of league history, past history should prevail. If this benefited the commissioner, other owners would be screaming bloody murder and demanding the rules be changed as they were intended. So, I think that's a good standard to use. Given the tight nature of the race, I am highly suspicious of there being any real ripple effect. It's not as if one of the teams coasted.

 

What on earth does Greed have to do with this?