Science vs God

[surferskin 30]

Who said I want to impress you as an atheist?

 

A. I'm not an "atheist" - I might believe in God if I ever saw one shred of evidence...

 

2. I'm sure as hell not trying to "impress" you. Hell I even go to Christmas Mass to keep the wife happy.

So you're poosay whipped and a hypocrite.

[Durtee 0]

Christmas has long ceased to have anything to do with Christianity. Actually, the only reason Christmas is in December to start with is that the early Christians needed a holiday to compete with the Roman Saturnalia.

 

Christmas is about family and friends. Nothing more. Oh, that, and unabashed commercialism.

 

Your right, that is what Christmas means to non believers. Those that know the truth, still celebrate the birth of their savior.

[Snoopy1 0]

So you're poosay whipped and a hypocrite.

 

 

From his statement so it would be reasonable to assume he's agnostic, so he wouldn't be a hypocrite.

 

From your statement, it would be reasonable to assume your stupid.

[Snoopy1 0]

Your right, that is what Christmas means to non believers. Those that know the truth, still celebrate the birth of their savior.

 

Wouldn't it be a lot more appropriate to celebrate his birth when he was born---you know like in Sept or Oct.

[parrot 789]

You celebrate Columbus day? You celebrate groundhog day? No, I seriously doubt that you "celebrate" those holidays. The fact you compare them to Christmas is laughable.

 

Celebrating and taking the day off of work ain't the same thing. I celebrate Thanksgiving, the 4th of July, Christmas and Easter because those are holidays that I believe in and have MEANING to me.

 

I never said I celebrated those days, I said I'm fine with the fact they exist, just like I'm fine with the fact that a day celebrating Jesus - who I believe in as a historical figure - exists.

 

I celebrate Christmas because it's a traditional time of communal celebration (coopted by Christians as already mentioned). If they told me tomorrow "Hey, we're moving the whole shindig to Groundhog day..." My response would be "Okay."

[surferskin 30]

From his statement so it would be reasonable to assume he's agnostic, so he wouldn't be a hypocrite.

 

From your statement, it would be reasonable to assume your stupid.

Thanks, brainiac!

[Blitzen 0]

oh goody

 

so now "christmas has moved well past any ties to christianity" too. wow.

 

you guys are all so enlightened. i wish i was. poor dumbass me still believes in God.

 

we should ban faith in anything.

 

I absolutely don't see how your statement links to mine but if it makes you feel better, I teach my kids to have faith in themselves.

[Snoopy1 0]

Thanks, brainiac!

 

[surferskin 30]

I never said I celebrated those days, I said I'm fine with the fact they exist, just like I'm fine with the fact that a day celebrating Jesus - who I believe in as a historical figure - exists.

 

I celebrate Christmas because it's a traditional time of communal celebration (coopted by Christians as already mentioned). If they told me tomorrow "Hey, we're moving the whole shindig to Groundhog day..." My response would be "Okay."

 

That's comforting.

[Blitzen 0]

Who said I want to impress you as an atheist?

 

A. I'm not an "atheist" - I might believe in God if I ever saw one shred of evidence...

 

2. I'm sure as hell not trying to "impress" you. Hell I even go to Christmas Mass to keep the BJs from my wife coming.

 

fixored

[Durtee 0]

Wouldn't it be a lot more appropriate to celebrate his birth when he was born---you know like in Sept or Oct.

 

So genius, when was Jesus born??

 

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jes...mber-25-faq.htm

[parrot 789]

So you're poosay whipped and a hypocrite.

 

Yeah, I'm sure that one guy on the face of the earth who never does anything to keep the wife happy.

 

And I don't think I'm near the hypocrite for merely going to church as are people who claim to be Christians but never seem to act much like one. Not mentioning any names, just saying.

[Blitzen 0]

So genius, when was Jesus born??

 

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jes...mber-25-faq.htm

 

Did you actually read the piece you linked to? It seems to state a August/Sept time frame for the birth of Jesus.

[FeelingMN 273]

How the hell do you celebrate Groundhog day? Yeah, me, my daughter and parents all gather around the globe to celebrate Columbus day too.

 

How the hell do you celebrate Christmas?

 

Lemme guess: buy a bunch of sh!t, eat a bunch of sh!t, watch a bunch of sh!t on TV, drink a sh!tload.

 

All I'm saying is the celebration of Christmas....err, I mean the Holidays, is often confused with commercialized ritual. It's not celebrating anything per se. If it truly were, it wouldn't matter what you got your daughter for Christmas. You would get her something she would like and appreciate, and possibly provide her a sense of meaning of what that time of year means to you. Be honest though man, does this happen? I don't have kids, but remember being one, and have been around others and their primary objective is to accumulate as much crap as possible. And that's the meaning of Christmas to anyone under the age of 18, and anyone who has the mind of an 18 year old.

 

I know that this changes as you get older, and you do appreciate the time spent with friends and family. And I'm guessing you get as big a kick outta watching your kid enjoy Christmas as anything else. But tell me you do something to convey the meaning of the day other than spending money and eating more food than the average African does in a week.

[surferskin 30]

How the hell do you celebrate Christmas?

 

Lemme guess: buy a bunch of sh!t, eat a bunch of sh!t, watch a bunch of sh!t on TV, drink a sh!tload.

Hey, that sounds an awful lot like a party or maybe even a celebration.

 

Did you have a point? I'm still waiting to see how Groundhog day is celebrated throughout the country.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I absolutely don't see how your statement links to mine but if it makes you feel better, I teach my kids to have faith in themselves.

 

Good for you. Better that they learn to have faith in the only thing they can depend on in this world... themselves.

 

You know the saying, you can sh!t in one hand and pray in the other, and see which one gets filled first.

[Durtee 0]

Did you actually read the piece you linked to? It seems to state a August/Sept time frame for the birth of Jesus.

 

Yeah, that is sort of the point, but I guess I need to explain it a little more. I apologize for assuming that people would understand the point. It has been 2000 years and all they can determine is a possible time frame of when he was born. Not an actual day. Also says in the first paragraph mind you, that in 440 AD the church proclaimed the 25th of December as his birthday. Nobody is arguing whether or not the 25th of December is the exact day that Jesus is born, so I am really not sure what sort of point you guys are trying to make. Sounds like arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Durtee 0]

Good for you. Better that they learn to have faith in the only thing they can depend on in this world... themselves.

 

You know the saying, you can sh!t in one hand and pray in the other, and see which one gets filled first.

 

I'm guessing that you didn't share your toys as a kid.

[surferskin 30]

Yeah, I'm sure that one guy on the face of the earth who never does anything to keep the wife happy.

 

And I don't think I'm near the hypocrite for merely going to church as are people who claim to be Christians but never seem to act much like one. Not mentioning any names, just saying.

I do plenty of things to keep my wife happy but nothing close to going to church when I didn't believe in God.

 

Also, despite popular opinion, just because a Christian doesn't always "act like it", it doesn't make them a hypocrite. We're all flawed and works in progress. It's always comical when non-believers call out Christians for their short comings. Just because we strive for better, doesn't mean we're hypocrites for not getting there.

[Blitzen 0]

Yeah, that is sort of the point, but I guess I need to explain it a little more. I apologize for assuming that people would understand the point. It has been 2000 years and all they can determine is a possible time frame of when he was born. Not an actual day. Also says in the first paragraph mind you, that in 440 AD the church proclaimed the 25th of December as his birthday. Nobody is arguing whether or not the 25th of December is the exact day that Jesus is born, so I am really not sure what sort of point you guys are trying to make. Sounds like arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

From your response, it looked like you were making fun of the poster who suggested Jesus was born in that timeframe.

[Durtee 0]

I do plenty of things to keep my wife happy but nothing close to going to church when I didn't believe in God.

 

Also, despite popular opinion, just because a Christian doesn't always "act like it", it doesn't make them a hypocrite. We're all flawed and works in progress. It's always commical when non-believers call out Christians for their short comings. Just because we strive for better, doesn't mean we're hypocrites for not getting there.

[jets24 6]

To his point though, are you celebrating the Holidays themselves? Or do they provide meaning to you because of how you spend those days, i.e. with family and friends?

I didn't know a belief in God was requisite to buying gifts and listening to Bing.

 

Funny, I don't remember saying it was a requisite to belief in God. What I don't appreciate is the hypocrisy of people celebrating the holiday, getting gifts, singing songs and then saying that they don't believe in God, it's a pagan ritual, etc. People who celebrate Christmas as called Christians. We celebrate because it's a day that we recognize Jesus Christ as our Savior and we believe he was the Son of God. To say that you don't believe in any of it and then go along with all the celebrations because it's the thing to do, is just another example of liberal America wanting to have it both ways. You don't believe? No problem. Don't participate.

 

I'm not out there getting my son any Chanakuh gifts or celebrating any other Jewish holiday.

[listen2me 23 1,872]

I do plenty of things to keep my wife happy but nothing close to going to church when I didn't believe in God.

 

 

How is this different than Christian parents forcing their children to attend church?

[Brad GLuckman 519]

I do plenty of things to keep my wife happy but nothing close to going to church when I didn't believe in God.

 

Dude, it's not a huge deal. To some people it means alot to have their whole family with them at church. I only go once a year, on christmas with my parents. My mom knows I never go besides that day, but if that's all I did for her on Christmas that would be enough.

 

It doesn't make anyone a hypocrite, they do it for someone else. Doing something you dont want to do to make someone else happy...how is that bad?

[jets24 6]

Good for you. Better that they learn to have faith in the only thing they can depend on in this world... themselves.

 

You know the saying, you can sh!t in one hand and pray in the other, and see which one gets filled first.

 

 

Nope. Can't say that I do know that saying.

[FeelingMN 273]

Hey, that sounds an awful lot like a party or maybe even a celebration.

 

Did you have a point? I'm still waiting to see how Groundhog day is celebrated throughout the country.

 

 

Celebrations are celebrated, like you celebrate Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, the 4th, etc. ergo this is how you spend your Holidays. Got it.

 

And nobody celebrates Groundhog Day, except people from Minnesota.

 

His point was that he equates the two as arbitrary days that don't posses any more meaning than any other day. At least that's the way I took it.

 

You seem like a man with tons of meaning in his life.

[Snoopy1 0]

Funny, I don't remember saying it was a requisite to belief in God. What I don't appreciate is the hypocrisy of people celebrating the holiday, getting gifts, singing songs and then saying that they don't believe in God, it's a pagan ritual, etc. People who celebrate Christmas as called Christians. We celebrate because it's a day that we recognize Jesus Christ as our Savior and we believe he was the Son of God. To say that you don't believe in any of it and then go along with all the celebrations because it's the thing to do, is just another example of liberal America wanting to have it both ways. You don't believe? No problem. Don't participate.

 

I'm not out there getting my son any Chanakuh gifts or celebrating any other Jewish holiday.

 

It's a political ideology thing...what you're just sad.

[Blitzen 0]

I do plenty of things to keep my wife happy but nothing close to going to church when I didn't believe in God.

 

Also, despite popular opinion, just because a Christian doesn't always "act like it", it doesn't make them a hypocrite. We're all flawed and works in progress. It's always comical when non-believers call out Christians for their short comings. Just because we strive for better, doesn't mean we're hypocrites for not getting there.

 

Since parrot doesn't believe in God, I don't see how him doing this is such a big thing.

[jets24 6]

I do plenty of things to keep my wife happy but nothing close to going to church when I didn't believe in God.

 

Also, despite popular opinion, just because a Christian doesn't always "act like it", it doesn't make them a hypocrite. We're all flawed and works in progress. It's always comical when non-believers call out Christians for their short comings. Just because we strive for better, doesn't mean we're hypocrites for not getting there.

 

 

Well said.

[surferskin 30]

How is this different than Christian parents forcing their children to attend church?

Uh...because adults make up their own minds.

 

When I was a child, I did what my parents said because I didn't have a choice. Now that I live in my own house, sure I make some concessions with my wife but she doesn't tell me what to do.

[jets24 6]

It's a political ideology thing...what you're just sad.

 

Buddy...struggling with cohesive thought today? I would respond but I don't understand it.

[surferskin 30]

Celebrations are celebrated, like you celebrate Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, the 4th, etc. ergo this is how you spend your Holidays. Got it.

 

And nobody celebrates Groundhog Day, except people from Minnesota.

 

His point was that he equates the two as arbitrary days that don't posses any more meaning than any other day. At least that's the way I took it.

 

You seem like a man with tons of meaning in his life.

No, it just looks like you missed my original point. I made a point to say "celebrate" Christmas. So, Parrot mentions abuncha random holidays...some of which banks don't even recognize and compares them the biggest religious holiday of them all. I'm just sayin, it ain't the same thing.

[parrot 789]

I do plenty of things to keep my wife happy but nothing close to going to church when I didn't believe in God.

My wife knows I don't really share her beliefs, but I do respect them, and it's important to her that we go as a family, so I go. But that's just me, one of those narrow-minded agnostics who regularly attends church.

 

Also, despite popular opinion, just because a Christian doesn't always "act like it", it doesn't make them a hypocrite. We're all flawed and works in progress. It's always comical when non-believers call out Christians for their short comings. Just because we strive for better, doesn't mean we're hypocrites for not getting there.

Professing to believe something and then acting contrary to that belief is pretty much the definition of hypocrisy. So yeah, not always acting like it does make you a hypocrite. Don't blame me, I didn't invent the word, or bring it up.

 

For the record I think most of us, myself included are hypocrites to some degree or another.

[wiffleball 4,790]

Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and

> cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you

> not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a

> preacher?"

 

Loathe as I am to fall for this crap, this is where it fell apart.

 

Dumbass Fundies get a new flu shot every year for their kids. Why? Because last years' strain has evolved.

 

The shiit has evolved in a matter of months, Yet, there's no such thing as evolution over millions of years. Gotcha.

 

and you wonder why we think you're stupid. You routinely acknowledge evolution with your actions while simultaneously deny it exists.

[jets24 6]

How is this different than Christian parents forcing their children to attend church?

 

Because children need guidance and are generally not agnostic at that age. We give them a choice and when they become adults, they can choose not to go to church if they don't believe. Unless of course, you are Parrot. Then you tell others that you don't believe but go to church anyhow.

[listen2me 23 1,872]

Uh...because adults make up their own minds.

 

When I was a child, I did what my parents said because I didn't have a choice. Now that I live in my own house, sure I make some concessions with my wife but she doesn't tell me what to do.

 

He didn't say she told him what to do, he does it to make her happy.

 

You said you do nothing close to going to church while not believing in God. Then I ask how is that different than parents making their children go? Its not all that different.

[jets24 6]

My wife knows I don't really share her beliefs, but I do respect them, and it's important to her that we go as a family, so I go. But that's just me, one of those narrow-minded agnostics who regularly attends church.

 

Professing to believe something and then acting contrary to that belief is pretty much the definition of hypocrisy. So yeah, not always acting like it does make you a hypocrite. Don't blame me, I didn't invite the word or bring it up.

 

For the record I think most of us, myself included are hypocrites to some degree or another.

 

Said the agnostic who goes to church!

[parrot 789]

Said the agnostic who goes to church!

I guess you missed the word "professing". When you see me get up in front of the congregation and say "Boy howdy do I believe in GOD!" then you'll have a point. HTH.

[listen2me 23 1,872]

Because children need guidance and are generally not agnostic at that age. We give them a choice and when they become adults, they can choose not to go to church if they don't believe. Unless of course, you are Parrot. Then you tell others that you don't believe but go to church anyhow.

 

This is funny. They need guidance, yes guidance to grow up and believe what a parent wants them to believe. Face the facts and get real, and realize that by parents making their children go to church they are making/greatly influencing them to believe what they want them to believe. That is no choice. If a kid had went to church all teh way until he was 18, how hard is it going to be for him to just change when he is an adult?

 

Its brain-washing. Too make a kid go to church isn't giving them free will at all since they don't know what they want to believe in at that age. And to only put one way of thinking in front of them and that one way alone, you are not giving them the choice.

[Blitzen 0]

Loathe as I am to fall for this crap, this is where it fell apart.

 

Dumbass Fundies get a new flu shot every year for their kids. Why? Because last years' strain has evolved.

 

The shiit has evolved in a matter of months, Yet, there's no such thing as evolution over millions of years. Gotcha.

 

and you wonder why we think you're stupid. You routinely acknowledge evolution with your actions while simultaneously deny it exists.

 

The general response to that is that you are talking about mutations not evolution.