Science vs God

[wiffleball 4,659]

and in the context of an omnipotent god

 

 

God can't get a stiffy?

[Durtee 0]

Its a little late for them to worry about sounding ridiculous at this point isn't it? Might as well swing for the fences.

 

This is the last time I am going to address this issue. I have too much work to do to play on here all day.

 

Everybody believes something differently, even Christians have particular denominations that they are loyal to. That doesn't mean that all of them can't be right or can't be wrong, but it would be pretty pointless to believe in something, but not believe that you are right. Most of you understand that...I think.

 

Titans has just been ridiculous and rude and seems like he is apparently trying to make up for something. Honestly I shouldn't expect more than that from him. I think that Jets pretty much summed it up better than I have been able to do.

 

God is impossible to understand if you don't have faith. I have great faith in God. I don't know why. I know it's comforting to me. Specifically during times of trouble, which we all go through. I can't explain what God is about or what he is made up of nor can I prove he's real. I just know what I believe. I'm glad my parents raised me to have faith. I'm proud to have my son grow up with faith. I encouraged him to develop a relationship with God and I know for a fact that it has helped him with many of his struggles. It helps make me feel comfortable during funerals, etc. People come to a house of worship to say goodbye to lost loved ones and feel the comfort of God.

I respect all faiths. To be honest, I feel sorry for those who don't have faith. It must be a lonely life Perhaps I'm wrong but I know that believing and trusting in God makes my life more complete. I am smart enough to know that I don't know a single thing about proof or lack of proof. For me, it's in my soul to believe.

 

Enough of this for me. Work and then wife's work Christmas party... peace out!

[josh wiley 27]

To you and the other recent posters: I merely said that the idea of life on other planets is not inconsistent with christianity. God, being god and all, could indeed send his son to a bazillion different planets. Also I've said multiple times that I personally am agnostic in general. I'm trying very hard to not call you guys mouthbreathers.

 

To you specifically Josh, in the interest of discussion, and in the context of an omnipotent god, why does that sound ridiculous?

okay i'll bite. so your thought is that he sends his son somewhere to die and then resurrects/picks up/reincarnates this same son everywhere else where there is life. so wash rinse repeat until jesus has covered every living planet. when we do happen to meet a being from another planet someday they will tell us of their messiah and the same "story" that happened here. if you think that sounds believable or logical then i have no other argument for you.

[wiffleball 4,659]

okay i'll bite. so your thought is that he sends his son somewhere to die and then resurrects/picks up/reincarnates this same son everywhere else where there is life. so wash rinse repeat until jesus has covered every living planet. when we do happen to meet a being from another planet someday they will tell us of their messiah and the same "story" that happened here. if you think that sounds believable or logical then i have no other argument for you.

 

I think believable and logical went out the door the minute you introduced space aliens into a religous thread.

[listen2me 23 1,558]

okay i'll bite. so your thought is that he sends his son somewhere to die and then resurrects/picks up/reincarnates this same son everywhere else where there is life. so wash rinse repeat until jesus has covered every living planet. when we do happen to meet a being from another planet someday they will tell us of their messiah and the same "story" that happened here. if you think that sounds believable or logical then i have no other argument for you.

 

Really, none of the stories seem logical or real. In reality if anyone told stories like this today people would claim they have a mental disorder.

 

But for religion anything goes, a day when people were super-human, and magical things happened all the time. It would have been an exciting time to be alive.

[jerryskids 5,273]

okay i'll bite. so your thought is that he sends his son somewhere to die and then resurrects/picks up/reincarnates this same son everywhere else where there is life. so wash rinse repeat until jesus has covered every living planet. when we do happen to meet a being from another planet someday they will tell us of their messiah and the same "story" that happened here. if you think that sounds believable or logical then i have no other argument for you.

I'm kinda at a loss for werds josh. I've stated that life on other planets is not inconsistent with Christianity. I've stated that an omnipotent god could put his son on infinite planets at the same time. And yes, in that context, we could meet beings from another planet some day and have the same salvation story; in the context of Christianity, do you think that that would serve to weaken or strengthen the christian message? Oh, and for the umpteenth time, I'm agnostic and don't really believe all of this, but I enjoy defending such positions against mouthbreathers like yourself.

 

Frankly you've brought nothing to this discussion but "there might be life on other planets AARRRGGGHHHH!@#" Seriously, do you have anything of substance to add?

[GobbleDog 822]

But God is Jesus.

 

I've always wondered about that...

 

How much supernatural powers did God give Jesus when he was born. I can't imagine he'd give the little baby Jesus the psychic ability to destroy the universe. Or did he wait until Jesus went to heaven to load him up with full-on creation powers. But do they now have equal powers? I mean, hypothetically if they ever fought, does God have the unbeatable lighting bolts while Jesus can only throw fireballs?

 

And if they are equal, then that means God created an equal God?.? So the new God can then decide to go clone himself a couple more Gods as well? Would the quality of clone God go down the further they got from the original copy?

 

 

[jerryskids 5,273]

I've always wondered about that...

 

How much supernatural powers did God give Jesus when he was born. I can't imagine he'd give the little baby Jesus the psychic ability to destroy the universe. Or did he wait until Jesus went to heaven to load him up with full-on creation powers. But do they now have equal powers? I mean, hypothetically if they ever fought, does God have the unbeatable lighting bolts while Jesus can only throw fireballs?

 

And if they are equal, then that means God created an equal God?.? So the new God can then decide to go clone himself a couple more Gods as well? Would the quality of clone God go down the further they got from the original copy?

Well, god is no tetra or betta fish, I think that much is clear.

[listen2me 23 1,558]

I've always wondered about that...

 

How much supernatural powers did God give Jesus when he was born. I can't imagine he'd give the little baby Jesus the psychic ability to destroy the universe. Or did he wait until Jesus went to heaven to load him up with full-on creation powers. But do they now have equal powers? I mean, hypothetically if they ever fought, does God have the unbeatable lighting bolts while Jesus can only throw fireballs?

 

And if they are equal, then that means God created an equal God?.? So the new God can then decide to go clone himself a couple more Gods as well? Would the quality of clone God go down the further they got from the original copy?

 

Good Questions.

 

Don't they have to leagalize the cloning of embrios first?

[wiffleball 4,659]

I've always wondered about that...

 

Especially since that means Jesus impregnated his own mother...

 

 

 

mother focker.

[josh wiley 27]

I'm kinda at a loss for werds josh. I've stated that life on other planets is not inconsistent with Christianity. I've stated that an omnipotent god could put his son on infinite planets at the same time. And yes, in that context, we could meet beings from another planet some day and have the same salvation story; in the context of Christianity, do you think that that would serve to weaken or strengthen the christian message? Oh, and for the umpteenth time, I'm agnostic and don't really believe all of this, but I enjoy defending such positions against mouthbreathers like yourself.

 

Frankly you've brought nothing to this discussion but "there might be life on other planets AARRRGGGHHHH!@#" Seriously, do you have anything of substance to add?

mouthbreather? have no idea what that means. anyways i like to think for myself and not have anyone else tell me what is acceptable to believe. as far as bringing something new to the argument, i believe i did. i wanted to see how the devout christians could account for wrapping their story around the concept of life elsewhere in the universe. seems to me that it would make much more sense that this story is one of the earth and not even the entire earth. i didn't come here to call people names just to try to have people open their minds to new concepts. that's all.

[jerryskids 5,273]

mouthbreather? have no idea what that means. anyways i like to think for myself and not have anyone else tell me what is acceptable to believe. as far as bringing something new to the argument, i believe i did. i wanted to see how the devout christians could account for wrapping their story around the concept of life elsewhere in the universe. seems to me that it would make much more sense that this story is one of the earth and not even the entire earth. i didn't come here to call people names just to try to have people open their minds to new concepts. that's all.

"mouthbreather" is an allusion to a neanderthal. You introduced the concept of life on other planets and implied that this is a "smoking gun" to debunk the concept of christianity. I've provided multiple responses in rebuttal. You've provided nothing of substance in response.

[josh wiley 27]

"mouthbreather" is an allusion to a neanderthal. You introduced the concept of life on other planets and implied that this is a "smoking gun" to debunk the concept of christianity. I've provided multiple responses in rebuttal. You've provided nothing of substance in response.

so the entire universe is chock full of the same religion that we have here. that's a real comforting thought. especially coming from someone who goes by jerryskids. have a great weekend bud. i'm done responding to you. it's pointless.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I think believable and logical went out the door the minute you introduced religion into a religous thread.

 

Fixed it for you wiff.

[jerryskids 5,273]

so the entire universe is chock full of the same religion that we have here. that's a real comforting thought. especially coming from someone who goes by jerryskids. have a great weekend bud. i'm done responding to you. it's pointless.

Nice, insult my handle. I'm waiting to hear why it is unreasonable that in the context of an omnipotent god, he couldn't spread his message to multiple planets. I've asked multiple times, but I get... this, consistently. Have a great weekend yourself.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Nice, insult my handle. I'm waiting to hear why it is unreasonable that in the context of an omnipotent god, he couldn't spread his message to multiple planets. I've asked multiple times, but I get... this, consistently. Have a great weekend yourself.

 

Sounds like you could start yourself a cult on that premise there skids. Just round up the crazy alien folk, and the crazy bible folk, and put em together to broadcast religious crap into space.

 

Just remember the two reasons to start a cult in the first place... money, and poosay.

 

On that note, I'm off for the weekend. Have fun solving the intricacies of the universe.

 

[jets24 6]

See I can respect this.

 

Oh great. Now I'm screwed.

[GobbleDog 822]

Religion in the US seems focused mainly on the social aspect. Few Americans are as insanely devout as people in 3rd world countries. Probably because religion is very appealing to the poor. "Life sucks now, but it'll get better when I'm dead!"

 

 

[naomi 347]

That's your definition of peace. Not mine. Personally, I find comfort in knowing I am living my life as best I can. This means developing a conscience and exercising reason to make sense of the world around me. I leave open the possibility of God. The thing I reject is organized religion's depiction of Him, or the zealot's contention that there is absolutely nothing else to believe in. This is incredibly narrow minded in my opinion. And if there is a God as you describe him, I think he'd be understanding of my skepticism. I'm far from a bad dude. I have to abide by my own principles though. Live sincerely. As such, I cannot accept others' fallacies and fictions simply because I should.

I don't really understand what you're saying, but I'll try my best.

Don't think I defined what peace means to me in there. You suggested that the idea of an eternal soul is something warmed to because it gives people peace. I don't find it more peaceful to believe in eternity than to not. Before I became a Christian, the prospect of no eternity was fine. Why it's not fine now is because it runs contrary to what I know/(or what I think...from your perspective).

 

I read Wolfe's article and it seems that according to the thinking, you can't develop your conscience...it can be influenced and tempered by what you experience but there's no potentiality with it. Everything has been decided. How you will respond to x,y,z scenerio is determined by a program you're operating on. In essence, life around you is developing your conscience. Development itself can only mean increasing instances of access. The world around you makes sense out of you (the physical mechanism). The only thing up in the air is what scenarios your program may be exposed to. I think you understand that because of your posts in the free will thread. There really isn't a difference between us and robots with that understanding. "Some humans believe in God. Some robots believe in humans." That idea itself isn't reason to ignore the scientific insights Wolfe was mentioning though.

 

A metaphysical implication of the article is that man isn't accountable for himself. Whatever people go for, whether it has positive or negative ramifications, is what they should have done...what they were programmed to do. Why hold someone accountable for murder when every single decision and neurocellular exchange was preprogrammed? Their knowledge that it's bad doesn't make a difference, because by nature they were set to 'choose' the bad in light of the good. Everything is physical and physically predetermined. Should we punish people by virtue of their physical states? The question itself is also not reason to reject sound science.

 

Think I'm down with the science employed...just likely not what's made out of it.

This author has put it a lot better than I could (was trying ) and the insight into how the brain functions that Wolfe brought attention to doesn't cancel out his thoughts from my understanding. JP Moreland's Amazon Blog

 

Reality is chaotic because there is much more to it than we're close to being aware of. Regardless of where you're at now, I'm guessing you're in a pretty stable environment. And you can easily glance around and say, 'things seem pretty organized, there's no evidence of chaos in these parts'. But that's a microfraction of true Reality. As you read this you are being assailed by trillions of tiny bacterial bugs. Your body fights them off as it's been equipped to do. You're dying though, a couple thousand cells every few seconds. Through quantum mechanics, some star 38 light years away just exchanged a few electrons with your brain. And all the while, there exists a minute possibility that the chair you're sitting in spontaneously begins to float away. Seriously, read up on some of that quantum bullsh!t. Reality is stranger than fiction.

 

Not sure if that addresses your questions. If not, clarify.

 

Definitely agree that reality has the potential to be chaotic. But the fact that through all this "chaos"...if we're going to use it to describe all the profound, co-dependent (as far as ensuring our present reality) processes at work, are operating as they are...to me that shows order. All the elements are working together in a way we rely on. For such potential of chaos, it's interesting they are.

 

I leave open the possibility of God. The thing I reject is organized religion's depiction of Him, or the zealot's contention that there is absolutely nothing else to believe in. This is incredibly narrow minded in my opinion. And if there is a God as you describe him, I think he'd be understanding of my skepticism. I'm far from a bad dude. I have to abide by my own principles though. Live sincerely. As such, I cannot accept others' fallacies and fictions simply because I should.

 

I contend there is absolutely nothing else to believe, but obviously I shouldn't expect anyone to connect to that by virtue of what I announce I know and my reasons for my understanding. According to the bible man is only convicted of God's truths by a work of God. So while I may contend that, I wouldn't be thinking 'what the heck is wrong with you...I'm telling you how it is...and yet you resist it." That's natural of man. I would just be a liar in my own eyes if I had to say "well I believe this stuff, but I don't see it as the only way.'

 

"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" (John 3:12) Your skepticism is something God is familiar with. Organized religion in the sense of churches that feel more like businesses, so what seems like most of them, doesn't set well personally. The idea that appealing to men who have deemed themselves, or have been deemed by other select men as intermediaries between individuals and God doesn't set well either. That's scripturally antithetical. There's a lot that falls under the organized umbrella that is like that. The aspect of organized religion that I connect with is the bible actually being God's word. In it and through it we can know him, and that is his will. Doctrines that reconcile with it are sound, and doctrines that don't aren't. If God has dealt with someone, and they are no longer a "natural man" like mentioned in Corinthians, then that individual can understand God's word. Not perfectly but there shouldn't be gross, irreconcilable doctrinal differences amongst born again believers. So when it comes to questions of interpretation, someone God has dealt with will grow in correct understanding of him through his word.

[edjr 5,617]

[Bigtraine 24]

So, 9 pages in, what did we decide?

[Frank M 181]

So, 9 pages in, what did we decide?

 

 

I think about the only thing we can definitively say is that pudding is good.

[Savage Beast 1]

So, 9 pages in, what did we decide?

 

The Lake Of Fire list has grown leaps and bounds thanks to this thread.

 

You evil b@stards don't know anything about the living God.

[Angry White Male 0]

I stop posting here for a while, and suddenly this place turns into focking JesusToday?

 

What, has Joe Bryant bought Mike out?