Dirty hits by Clark and Nakamura

[Snuff 10]

Color me shocked that Pereira got on his knees for the Steelers again.

 

Yeah, I figured thats all you would bring.

[Franknbeans 46]

so this is how it goes?

 

the Steeler fans come out of the woodwork and come across like complete jack asses with their "tough guy", myopic views on things.

 

I suppose this is what happened with the Patriots, but instead of a "tough guy" schtick, it was a "we're smarter than you, genius" schtick. I can see how that would rub the wrong way.

 

Clark left his feet.

Clark did not use his arms to "tackle", he folded them in and missiled himself at McGahee.

Clark hit him high.

Clark hit him helmet to helmet.

 

Here's the thing, the legality of the hit is debatable.

There is no absolute correct answer either way.

But is is debatable.

This whole, "it's legal, shut up pansies" is what makes the Steeler fanbase sound like a bunch of mouth-breathers.

It was an awesome hit and if I was a fan of PIT, I'd have been up cheering and high fiving (until I saw McGahee was hurt).

But the necessity and legality of hits like that are, without question, debatable.

And to pretend otherwise simply because of your laundry allegiance is pathetic.

 

which brings us full circle to the point of t.j.'s thread:

should this be enforced more?

it's a simple yes or no.

Clark is being a hard hitting, tone-setter for his team: this is the kind of enforcement expected from him out there.

But should the league look harder at this type of play?

Should the league make more of an effort to enforce the rule, which the way it is currently written, would suggest the the hit is illegal to begin with.

 

stick to golf

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

which brings us full circle to the point of t.j.'s thread:

should this be enforced more?

it's a simple yes or no.

Clark is being a hard hitting, tone-setter for his team: this is the kind of enforcement expected from him out there.

But should the league look harder at this type of play?

Should the league make more of an effort to enforce the rule, which the way it is currently written, would suggest the the hit is illegal to begin with.

 

And for the reasons I've stated in previous posts, I'd say yes. The league should look at this tackling style that's used by d-backs throughout the NFL. That is not how they were taught to tackle. You don't go at a guy head down with your arms at your sides. It's extremely dangerous imo.

 

It seems like Steeler fans are taking offense, but they shouldn't. I have never noticed Polamalu tackling like that. He seems to play the position the correct way.

[Dan 66]

which brings us full circle to the point of t.j.'s thread:

should this be enforced more?

it's a simple yes or no.

Clark is being a hard hitting, tone-setter for his team: this is the kind of enforcement expected from him out there.

But should the league look harder at this type of play?

Should the league make more of an effort to enforce the rule, which the way it is currently written, would suggest the the hit is illegal to begin with.

 

IF . . . and perhaps this is a big if . . . that is the point of this thread, then why are we discussing only the play where someone got injured? Where exactly is this line? Willie Parker took a shot to the helmet by Bart Scott (undebatably with the crown), and there is no sound. Ben Roethlisberger took what appeared to be a spear to his back (and that well after the throw), and we are not discussing that. So I ask . . . is that really the point of this thread? But McGahee is hurt, so we discuss.

 

This is still glossed over by the "unbiased" posters in this thread. Just saying.

 

And I never called anyone a pansy or anything similar. I just don't agree with the idea that the hit dirty or made with intent to harm.

[jgcrawfish 232]

which brings us full circle to the point of t.j.'s thread:

should this be enforced more?

it's a simple yes or no.

Clark is being a hard hitting, tone-setter for his team: this is the kind of enforcement expected from him out there.

But should the league look harder at this type of play?

Should the league make more of an effort to enforce the rule, which the way it is currently written, would suggest the the hit is illegal to begin with.

 

No, see, that's where you're wrong. The point of t.j.'s thread was "Clark's dirty hit ends Ravens season, officials as always, fail to call spearing". The league has even said it wasn't dirty. There's so many if's. McGahee clearly went down in preparation for the hit, if he's standing up, that's a shoulder hit to his chest. But t.j. is clearly not only inciting this response, he's also calling it something it clearly wasn't "spearing". He's also insinuating that the hit ended the Raven's season, when Flacco's interception by Polamalu ended it. When you throw gasoline on a flame, expect an explosion.

[Snuff 10]

Not quite as original as "fixing" peoples posts but I'm trying.

 

Touche'.

 

Curious surfer, if Willis didn't get injured, do you think this would even be a topic? And also, Sweed's hit/block was even more brutal (even possibly illegal), and thank God no one got hurt on that play. However, why is that not being discussed by some of you guys?

And lastly, do you think if a safety from a team no one cares about (that no one dis-likes) made this hit, it would be scrutinized by the mouth breathing fans on a fantasy football site in the same way?

[Sho Nuff 720]

And for the reasons I've stated in previous posts, I'd say yes. The league should look at this tackling style that's used by d-backs throughout the NFL. That is not how they were taught to tackle. You don't go at a guy head down with your arms at your sides. It's extremely dangerous imo.

 

It seems like Steeler fans are taking offense, but they shouldn't. I have never noticed Polamalu tackling like that. He seems to play the position the correct way.

 

His arms were not down at his side...they were tucked in...and for any of you that say he led with his helmet...you are either lying or did not really watch the play.

He came in to make a big hit with his shoulder. Arms tucked in (so as not to break his own freakin arm when he lays a hit like that).

 

Brutal hit. Sucks a guy got hurt...but not dirty and not even close to illegal.

[Sho Nuff 720]

So if he lead with his shoulder pads why did his helmet ear hole McGahee before his shoulder pads touched anything?

 

Ill take it that you never watched the replay then. Thanks.

Watch it...he is clearly bracing to hit him with his shoulder.

They are not coming head on straight at each other. McGahee is cutting accross a bit not straight towards Clark.

Clark's head is more to the left as he makes the hit, leading first with his shoulder to make the hit. As he comes across Clark's body they end up head to head as well as shoulder to body.

Watch the play people...he was not just sticking his head out there to hit the guy with his helmet...

[t.j 35]

Tj, sorry to say it, but you're coming off like a sore loser here.

 

Baltimore likes to think of itself as a 'tough team' , what with Ray Lewis dancing around and stuff. It's teh image they want to have. Meanwhile, everytime they play Pittsburgh, somebody on the Steelers absolutely destroys someone on the Ravens.

 

Whether it's Ward, Sweed, or Clark, the Steelers always seem to find a guy to beat the snot out of one of the Ravens.

 

BAltimore is a very tough team, but they have to face it...the Steelers are much tougher and hit much harder.

 

You're way off base here. This is not about Baltimore or Pittsburgh, it's about a dangerous tactic used too often in football.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Nah, I've watched the replay about 100x by now. Are you really trying to deny that the helmet made the first contact?

 

Nope...never tried to deny that.

Im denying he led with his helmet with intent to use it for the tackle...that was clearly not the case as many in here are whining about.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Nah, I've watched the replay about 100x by now. Are you really trying to deny that the helmet made the first contact?

 

was his head turned/tilted to his left before the play? did he extend his right shoulder and curl his right arm up under the right shoulder? did his right shoulder strike McGahee's left shoulder at nearly the same time as his helmet and mcgahee's helmet contacted? The answer to all of these is "yes". hard hit? yes. unfortunate that not only 1, but 2 players got hurt? yes. clean hit? yes. league agrees it's a clean hit? yes. You coming across like a whiny little b? YES.

[t.j 35]

Hey, look...another Steeler fan that thinks it was a clean hit.

 

And he did lower the crown of his helmet, lead and launch(his feet never would have come off the ground if he didn't) into McGahee. I honestly don't see anyone can watch that video and not see that.

 

Exactly. He launched into McGahee. The fact that his feet were on the ground until the moment of impact only tells us that he was still generating power up through the point of impact which puts even more force into the spear. That's basic physics.

[Sho Nuff 720]

You're way off base here. This is not about Baltimore or Pittsburgh, it's about a dangerous tactic used too often in football.

 

Going in for a big hit with your shoulder is a dangerous tactic?

[t.j 35]

Yeah, those are his two options, either go for the head or get run over. A good form tackle where he hits him low and wraps up like he's been taught since he was five years old would obviously be impossible.

 

Amazing how many people cannot grasp the concept of form tackling.

[t.j 35]

Won't change anyone's mind I'm sure but here's what Pereira said to Mike Judge CBSsportline about the play.

 

Pereira is being his usual douche self, siding with his stripes like he does 99% of the time they make mistakes. I have the same comment about his take as I do about Simms... it's true that helmet to helmet contact is only called out for defenseless WRs and QBs, however, use of the defenders helmet in the manner Clark used it is not allowed regardless of what part of the offensive player is hit. Half of Pereira's job is not to bring bad publicity to the league, unfortunately he does a better job of that than he does of holding his officials accountable for mistakes.

[Sho Nuff 720]

So he lead with his shoulder pads but ended up spearing Mcgahee on accident? I can live with that explanation, since we'll never no Clark's intent.

 

Helmets hit on accident all the time when guys are going in with their shoulders.

Not sure if some of you understand the anatomy of the human body that the head is on top of those shoulders and will always be out front and they may hit...that does not mean the defender is going for a helmet hit.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Pereira is being his usual douche self, siding with his stripes like he does 99% of the time they make mistakes. I have the same comment about his take as I do about Simms... it's true that helmet to helmet contact is only called out for defenseless WRs and QBs, however, use of the defenders helmet in the manner Clark used it is not allowed regardless of what part of the offensive player is hit. Half of Pereira's job is not to bring bad publicity to the league, unfortunately he does a better job of that than he does of holding his officials accountable for mistakes.

 

Use of the helmet in the manner Clark used it?

For covering his head in case of a hard hit?

He was going for a hit with his shoulder...that much is perfectly clear to most people on this planet.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

His arms were not down at his side...they were tucked in...and for any of you that say he led with his helmet...you are either lying or did not really watch the play.

He came in to make a big hit with his shoulder. Arms tucked in (so as not to break his own freakin arm when he lays a hit like that).

 

Brutal hit. Sucks a guy got hurt...but not dirty and not even close to illegal.

 

Ridiculous. I'm either lying or did not watch the play, huh?

 

I've watched it many, many times.

 

I almost completely disagree with you. Yes, his arms were tucked in and not at his side. His arms should be out to wrap up the ball carrier but instead they were down. Break his arm? Are you serious? Have you played football? It's called form tackling. Check here for tackling 101

 

From what I see, the guy is leading with his head and he drops it on the way in. And helmet hitting helmet is the first contact I see.

[t.j 35]

No, see, that's where you're wrong. The point of t.j.'s thread was "Clark's dirty hit ends Ravens season, officials as always, fail to call spearing".

 

No, the point was the nature of the hit. It was a mistake on my part to mention the impact of the game in the subject line, I should have known it would have caused 80 points by trolls offended from a Steelers standpoint. I already said this in response to TD Ryan2, but you chose to ignore it and continue on your own agenda.

 

But t.j. is clearly not only inciting this response, he's also calling it something it clearly wasn't "spearing".

 

How can you say it's not spearing? The only way it's not spearing is if you use the rugby definition of spearing. By the American Football definition it clearly is spearing.

[jgcrawfish 232]

So he led with his shoulder pads but ended up spearing Mcgahee on accident? I can live with that explanation, since we'll never no Clark's intent.

 

How can you even still use the term spearing??? Spearing involves the crown of his helmet, not the side. Spearing involves driving yourself like a spear into another player, and the rule was written for players already on the ground who were being hit by players who were still moving and launched themselves "like a spear" into another player. you're as big an inciter as the OP in clearly misrepresenting not only the description but the intent. good gawd this board is littered with whiners.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Covering his head? What the fock are you talking about?

 

He said in the manner in which clark used his helmet.

The only thing he used his helmet for was protection agaisnt a collision.

He was not using his helmet to make the hit.

HTH

[TD Ryan2 316]

Nope...never tried to deny that.

Im denying he led with his helmet with intent to use it for the tackle...

 

I'll buy that.

Clark wasn't trying to headbutt the guy.

 

but the force (and physics) of how he was tackling with his arms in, shoulder down, and launching himself would also require that his helmet earholes McGahee in the process.

 

It's a tough call.

"tackling" (use that loosely here) like that is dangerous.

But, a powerful RB like McGahee may not be brought down with a traditional arm tackle... and if you're a safety, and the RB beats your last line of defense for because you didn't lay him out, there is no excuse.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Ridiculous. I'm either lying or did not watch the play, huh?

 

I've watched it many, many times.

 

I almost completely disagree with you. Yes, his arms were tucked in and not at his side. His arms should be out to wrap up the ball carrier but instead they were down. Break his arm? Are you serious? Have you played football? It's called form tackling. Check here for tackling 101

 

From what I see, the guy is leading with his head and he drops it on the way in. And helmet hitting helmet is the first contact I see.

 

He is laying a hit...not a perfect form tackle (not all tackles in the league are form tackles).

When doing so he protected himself against a broken arm while going for a big hit.

Yes...break his arm...going for a hit like that with your arms out, if you get them caught at the wrong spot, they will break.

 

 

From what you see, then you don't see very well...because he is clearly not leading with his head to make the hit but his shoulder instead.

[t.j 35]

Curious surfer, if Willis didn't get injured, do you think this would even be a topic? And also, Sweed's hit/block was even more brutal (even possibly illegal), and thank God no one got hurt on that play.

 

Should people not take notice when bad tactics have bad consequences? If McGahee hadn't been hurt then we wouldn't have watched the replay live for 10 minutes and it wouldn't have been as apparent how blatant of a straight-up spear it was.

This is a stuipd argument. Either you can defend the hit on his merits, or, in this case, you can't.

 

From my recollection Sweed's hit was not led with the helmet. Brutal yes, illegal like McGahee's I really don't think so, if you can show me a link to it then I can take another look. I don't condone other dangerous hits with the helmet either, but Clark's spear was the most dangerous I saw this weekend.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

From what I watched, he certainly looked like he was trying to land a shoulder to helmet blow, but just missed and landed with his helmet.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I'll buy that.

Clark wasn't trying to headbutt the guy.

 

but the force (and physics) of how he was tackling with his arms in, shoulder down, and launching himself would also require that his helmet earholes McGahee in the process.

 

It's a tough call.

"tackling" (use that loosely here) like that is dangerous.

But, a powerful RB like McGahee may not be brought down with a traditional arm tackle... and if you're a safety, and the RB beats your last line of defense for because you didn't lay him out, there is no excuse.

 

not to mention giving up nearly 30 lbs to said RB. you don't push a like mcgahee down, you hit the snot of him.

[jgcrawfish 232]

From what I watched, he certainly looked like he was trying to land a shoulder to helmet blow, but just missed and landed with his helmet.

 

my gawd, finally, teh voice of reason!!!

 

[t.j 35]

Going in for a big hit with your shoulder is a dangerous tactic?

 

Nice straw man argument. Obviously you know from reading my many posts on the subject that my take is that Clark put the full force of his body behind his head, in a straight line, and launched himself at the runner full speed head first, that is absolutely a dangerous tactic. Dangerous to himself as well as others.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Should people not take notice when bad tactics have bad consequences? If McGahee hadn't been hurt then we wouldn't have watched the replay live for 10 minutes and it wouldn't have been as apparent how blatant of a straight-up spear it was.

This is a stuipd argument. Either you can defend the hit on his merits, or, in this case, you can't.

 

From my recollection Sweed's hit was not led with the helmet. Brutal yes, illegal like McGahee's I really don't think so, if you can show me a link to it then I can take another look. I don't condone other dangerous hits with the helmet either, but Clark's spear was the most dangerous I saw this weekend.

 

The hit was not illegal...that little "fact" keeps getting in the way of your argument.

[jgcrawfish 232]

From what I watched, he certainly looked like he was trying to land a shoulder to helmet blow, but just missed and landed with his helmet.

 

my gawd, finally, the voice of reason!!!

 

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

He is laying a hit...not a perfect form tackle (not all tackles in the league are form tackles).

When doing so he protected himself against a broken arm while going for a big hit.

Yes...break his arm...going for a hit like that with your arms out, if you get them caught at the wrong spot, they will break.

From what you see, then you don't see very well...because he is clearly not leading with his head to make the hit but his shoulder instead.

 

Clark was in perfect position to make a form tackle here. Staying low, his head to the left of McGahee's body, his shoulder driving into McGahee as he keeps his leg's moving, driving through the ball carrier. Clark wraps his arms around McGahee to plant him into the turf with a perfect form tackle.

[TD Ryan2 316]

From what I watched, he certainly looked like he was trying to land a shoulder to helmet blow, but just missed and landed with his helmet.

 

Proof right here that you're wrong:

• you pvssie
  
• you Steeler hater
  
• you pansy
  
• go play ballet
  

[Sho Nuff 720]

The question you need to ask yourself is, would McGahee had been laying their lifeless had the crown of Clark's helmet not met McGahee's ear hole?

 

The crown of his helmet did not hit him there.

And that question is pretty much not relevant.

Im talking about did he lead with his helmet going in for the tackle. By every single replay I saw, he did not. He was clearly bracing to his him with his shoulder sliding his own head to the left before the hit.

[Snuff 10]

at your guys insistance on using the term "spear".

[Sho Nuff 720]

Nice straw man argument. Obviously you know from reading my many posts on the subject that my take is that Clark put the full force of his body behind his head, in a straight line, and launched himself at the runner full speed head first, that is absolutely a dangerous tactic. Dangerous to himself as well as others.

 

Its not a straw man argument...its the fact of the freakin hit.

Your take is a completely ignorant and idiotic one.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Nice straw man argument. Obviously you know from reading my many posts on the subject that my take is that Clark put the full force of his body behind his head, in a straight line, and launched himself at the runner full speed head first, that is absolutely a dangerous tactic. Dangerous to himself as well as others.

 

you sir, are obtuse. if you can't see that his head was turned to the left, you need to have your eyes checked, or you are blatantly stupid, or you are biased in someway...i personally vote for all 3.

[t.j 35]

The hit was not illegal...that little "fact" keeps getting in the way of your argument.

 

It's not a fact. If you don't believe it was illegal, that's your right, we can agree to disagree. I know what Pereira said but I have not trusted him for years and I already responded to his take before he said it because his take was the same one as Simms... Pereira's defense spin all the way, no substance. His defense constitues a straw man argument... distract the public from the basic helmet usage rules by noting a couple of irrelevant points of emphasis that apply in other situations, that the public can latch on to, and there will be no bad press.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Clark was in perfect position to make a form tackle here. Staying low, his head to the left of McGahee's body, his shoulder driving into McGahee as he keeps his leg's moving, driving through the ball carrier. Clark wraps his arms around McGahee to plant him into the turf with a perfect form tackle.

 

Great...the position to make a form tackle means absolutely nothing.

The guy wanting to lay a big hit rather than use a form tackle is not a sign that it was dirty or illegal.

[t.j 35]

Its not a straw man argument...its the fact of the freakin hit.

Your take is a completely ignorant and idiotic one.

 

It is a classic straw man, you douche. Going for the hit with the shoulder is obviously NOT what I am criticizing him for and it is a tactic used to change the subject to something that can't be argued. I'm not the least bit surprised that a troll like yourself would resort to straw man tactics 6 pages into a thread though.

[Sho Nuff 720]

It's not a fact. If you don't believe it was illegal, that's your right, we can agree to disagree. I know what Pereira said but I have not trusted him for years and I already responded to his take before he said it because his take was the same one as Simms... Pereira's defense spin all the way, no substance. His defense constitues a straw man argument... distract the public from the basic helmet usage rules by noting a couple of irrelevant points of emphasis that apply in other situations, that the public can latch on to, and there will be no bad press.

 

That FACT that there was no flag on the play, and the league is stating it was not illegal pretty much shows it is a fact and you are only spewing ignorance right now.