Dirty hits by Clark and Nakamura

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Sorry but when I see Mike Pereira, officials, and enforcement of rules in the same post I just can't stop from laughing. Gold, Jerry, fockin GOLD!

Quite the insightful post. Certainly consistent with your efforts in the past.

[jaxjag 43]

Seriously, how else do you want Clark to tackle him, just with his arms?

 

Durfee is right.

 

I didn't think so last night but, watching this on YouTube, I think it is a dirty hit. It is very reminiscent of the cheap shot on Wes Welker without the late aspect. In fact, wasn't that Clark as well?

 

As far as your question goes... he doesn't even use his arms. He folds his arms to his body and spears with his head/shoulders.

 

This "tackling" (I'll use that term loosely) technique is a relatively new phenomenon but it is widespread around the league. It is not restricted to the Steelers. People are accepting this as the norm but it is NOT good tackling form and it is dangerous.

 

How many guys have to be seriously hurt before some of you wake up?

[lambert58 71]

Durfee is right.

 

I didn't think so last night but, watching this on YouTube, I think it is a dirty hit. It is very reminiscent of the cheap shot on Wes Welker without the late aspect. In fact, wasn't that Clark as well?

 

As far as your question goes... he doesn't even use his arms. He folds his arms to his body and spears with his head/shoulders.

 

This "tackling" (I'll use that term loosely) technique is a relatively new phenomenon but it is widespread around the league. It is not restricted to the Steelers. People are accepting this as the norm but it is NOT good tackling form and it is dangerous.

 

How many guys have to be seriously hurt before some of you Willis McGahee wake up?

 

 

[TD Ryan2 316]

GettnHuge won this thread.

 

 

while I do agree that the legality of the hit is debatable, GettnHuge is the only one actually bringing facts into the argument.

Many (though not all) of the Steeler fans are relying on the "everybody on TV says it's legal", "no matter what you won't change my mind", and "Nancy Boys" as their only rationale for condoning the hit.

 

Parrot mentioned earlier that Clark is one of those players who's frequently on the edge of the rules... if he's on your team, you love him; if he's on another team you hate him. I tend to agree with this. And if you like Clark's style, don't complain when it comes at you from someone else (though I have a feeling some of the most ardent defenders of Clark in this thread would be the first to cry the other way).

 

t.j. has been consistent over the years with his disdain for these types of plays/players (Rodney Harrison comes to mind).

So, while the thread title is a bit baiting (hit ends Ravens season... not so much), so this isn't just the poor Steelers being picked on.

A hit like this warrants considerable debate and discussion, especially with the way McGahee was carted off.

It is a shame that some Steeler fans can't even have a reasonable debate without resorting to the typical, lame ass schtick that has become all too prevalent on this board.

[TD Ryan2 316]

I'll bet that Dan Rooney melts down the 6 rings and then makes it into a crown.. Wears it on his head like a halo.

 

quality.

[Melissa Stark 1]

lambert58 Posted Today, 01:01 AM

I'll bet that Dan Rooney melts down the 6 rings and then makes it into a crown.. Wears it on his head like a halo.

 

That's great!! hehe

 

Wrong thread, need to put this in the Steelers win their 6th SB!

[lambert58 71]

That's great!! hehe

 

Wrong thread, need to put this in the Steelers win their 6th SB!

 

 

Nah, I want it in this thread. The people whining about the hit need to realize that no matter how much they insist they are right, the Steelers are still going to the Super Bowl. Whine, B1tch, complain...whatever because it really doesn't matter. In 13 days the Steelers are playing in the Super Bowl and the Ravens are not... Let me make it more clear. THE HIT WAS ILLEGAL AND DIRTY!!!! See you at the Super Bowl...

[FlaHawker 24]

Quite the insightful post. Certainly consistent with your efforts in the past.

It was shot at Periera, who thankfockingoodness is retiring, and not you. Not suprised you didn't get the point

[Melissa Stark 1]

Let's just hope Clark plays with this same tenacity in the SB

[jaxjag 43]

Nah, I want it in this thread. The people whining about the hit need to realize that no matter how much they insist they are right, the Steelers are still going to the Super Bowl. Whine, B1tch, complain...whatever because it really doesn't matter. In 13 days the Steelers are playing in the Super Bowl and the Ravens are not... Let me make it more clear. THE HIT WAS ILLEGAL AND DIRTY!!!! See you at the Super Bowl...

 

I wonder who has more teeth, Jack Lambert or Lambert58.

[jgcrawfish 232]

hey fellas, in case you didn't know, t.j. is another pimptaddy/dallas_empire alias...move along, nothing but douschiness to see here...

 

 

[lambert58 71]

I wonder who has more teeth, Jack Lambert or Lambert58.

 

 

I will be gumming a pizza watching the Steelers in the Super Bowl..

[jaxjag 43]

I will be gumming a pizza watching the Steelers in the Super Bowl..

 

Don't choke on the pepperoni.

 

PS. Try slicing it.

[murf74 461]

I am not going to read thru 4 pages since the last time I posted.

 

It has already been determined that Clark will not get fined by the NFL.

 

And please look at the link photo below:

 

Clark is on his feet at impact and he actually lead with his right shoulder.

 

This was NOT an illegal hit, to say there is something illegal with that photo proof is downright silly!!!!!!!!!

 

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/uploa...lis_mcgahee.jpg

[Law 241]

Sadly murf, I think this thread bears proof that some can argue against a wall - against all reason, logic, and evidence - if it suits their purpose.

[Snuff 10]

Good pic Murf.

Definitely shows evidence to dispute what some people in this thread are saying. He hadn't left his feet, and he led with his shoulder. Both at the point of impact.

[Bill E. 703]

I noticed that you have still failed to explain exactly what reasoning I would have for being bias.....

 

God I hate the Steelers and their 50 Cent coach....

 

 

so that makes me a Ravens fan? Or a McGahee fan?

 

Neither, You asked for proof that you were biased. I provided a link. I never said you were pro Balt, but the link clearly showa that you are anti PIT. There is your bias.

[stonewall 647]

I am not going to read thru 4 pages since the last time I posted.

 

It has already been determined that Clark will not get fined by the NFL.

 

And please look at the link photo below:

 

Clark is on his feet at impact and he actually lead with his right shoulder.

 

This was NOT an illegal hit, to say there is something illegal with that photo proof is downright silly!!!!!!!!!

 

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/uploa...lis_mcgahee.jpg

 

A picture is worth a thousand words, isn't it.....I just can't believe that this topic has dragged on soooo long.

 

Bottom line: Clean hit, get well soon, case closed, move along, 'nuff said.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Not a fan of either team.

 

When I was watching the game I thought it looked totally legal, and maybe it was since there was contact with the shoulder pad. What I don't like is that it looks like that was not necessarily Clarks intent. Looks to me like he was propelling himself, head down, Brian Dawkins style. I can't stand these D-backs leading with their helmets like that. If Clark ends up in a wheelchair someday for a similar hit, he can blame himself and no one else. I was taught to always keep your head up when tackling. Every defensive coach I ever had preached it. When you're leading with your helmet like that, it's dangerous to both parties involved. It's bad tackling and there are so many in the NFL that do it. Drives me crazy.

[GettnHuge 2]

Not a fan of either team.

 

When I was watching the game I thought it looked totally legal, and maybe it was since there was contact with the shoulder pad. What I don't like is that it looks like that was not necessarily Clarks intent. Looks to me like he was propelling himself, head down, Brian Dawkins style. I can't stand these D-backs leading with their helmets like that. If Clark ends up in a wheelchair someday for a similar hit, he can blame himself and no one else. I was taught to always keep your head up when tackling. Every defensive coach I ever had preached it. When you're leading with your helmet like that, it's dangerous to both parties involved. It's bad tackling and there are so many in the NFL that do it. Drives me crazy.

 

I'm a bit baffled, you said it was legal, but then go on about how stupid it was, how it's not the right way to hit, how someone can get

hurt or paralyzed...

basically you give all the reasons why that hit IS illegal. and you make a good argument too.

[t.j 35]

hey fellas, in case you didn't know, t.j. is another pimptaddy/dallas_empire alias...

 

Who are you, and where do you come up with this bullshit?

[t.j 35]

t.j. has been consistent over the years with his disdain for these types of plays/players (Rodney Harrison comes to mind).

So, while the thread title is a bit baiting (hit ends Ravens season... not so much), so this isn't just the poor Steelers being picked on.

 

I actually didn't want to focus on the aspect of how that play affected the game. I did think it was interesting that, if they make a rare (but important) call on that play, Baltimore gets the ball back and their slim chances of making a comeback are increased tenfold. However, I really wanted to just focus on the hit itself. I think it's really a shame that there are people who think this most aggressive form of spearing is acceptable. I wonder if they would feel differently if their kid was playing in high school and another kid launched himself like a missile at him like that. On the other hand, hopefully these jokers are not able to breed ever.

[NewbieJr 541]

Tj, sorry to say it, but you're coming off like a sore loser here.

 

Baltimore likes to think of itself as a 'tough team' , what with Ray Lewis dancing around and stuff. It's teh image they want to have. Meanwhile, everytime they play Pittsburgh, somebody on the Steelers absolutely destroys someone on the Ravens.

 

Whether it's Ward, Sweed, or Clark, the Steelers always seem to find a guy to beat the snot out of one of the Ravens.

 

BAltimore is a very tough team, but they have to face it...the Steelers are much tougher and hit much harder.

[Franknbeans 46]

Runners and tacklers make head to head contact all the time. Why are there no flags? Hmmmm...

 

 

This would not even be an issue if McGahee wasn't hurt on the play.

 

 

 

 

But whine on haters!

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Clark never really launched off the ground.

 

McGahee was on the ground himself.

 

Clark lead with his right shoulder.

 

McGahee ducked a little and their heltmets hit.

 

Unless you want Clark to detatch his head and leave it on the ground, I don't know how else he is going to get his helmet out of the way.

[Dan 66]

This would not even be an issue if McGahee wasn't hurt on the play.

 

This, I guess, is what really strikes me. Because for all the rhetoric going back and forth on this play and how "dirty" or "cheap" or "borderline" it was or wasn't, we're discussing this because McGahee was hurt.

 

Already referenced are two other hits that didn't result in a cart, but certainly fall under the criteria being argued over here. So really what is the concern? Are we looking into dirty or illegal hits? Or are we looking to castigate Ryan Clark because a player got injured?

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

I'm a bit baffled, you said it was legal, but then go on about how stupid it was, how it's not the right way to hit, how someone can get

hurt or paralyzed...

basically you give all the reasons why that hit IS illegal. and you make a good argument too.

 

How is your reading comprehension treating you? I basically said it ended up looking legal because he did not go helmet 2 helmet, but that did not look like Clark's INTENT. His head was down and itt looked to me like he was attempting to lead the crown of his helmet first.

[hines86rules 0]

Next time maybe he'll try and hit a RB standing straight up so the RB runs him over.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I've never heard such a whining little b!tchfest in all my life. It's really easy for you jackasses to say "illegal hit" when you're slowing it down an looking at it frame by frame. The officials have to call it in real time, real speed, and don't have all the rest of their lives to dwell on it like you jackasses.

 

On this clip, which was the original link posted on pg1 of this thread, at 11 seconds if I recall, you can clearly see Clarks helmet is turned sideways and he is attempting to lead with the shoulder.

 

Clark-McGahee hit, 26 seconds

 

The facts are this:

1. Clark did not leave his feet, aka "launch" himself at McGahee. The only time he left his feet was when he was freaking spinning around in the air after contact.

2. Clark did not "spear" McGahee in anyway. Spearing is defined as leading with the crown of your helmet, which implies a straight ahead tackle, head down and forward, keeping your body in straight position. Ray Lewis speared Rashard Mendenhall earlier in the season and broke his shoulder blade and never even got called out by the NFL for it. And did so during a game that it came to light afterward that the Ravens had a bounty out on Mendenhall and Ward...hmmmm.

3. Clark did not hit a defenses receiver, as evidenced by McGahee not only making a direction change, but also lowering his head for the impact.

4. The side of Clark's helmet hit the side of McGahee's helmet. This is because both of them broke same direction (McGahee to his right, Clark to his left). That left Clarks right shoulder hitting McGahee's left shoulder square, but also left their heads on the same side making contact.

5. McGahee lowered his head as well, and could easily be considered "leading with the crown" of his gear.

6. Anybody who thinks that a 205 lb safety should stand straight up to tackle a 232 lb RB with full head of steam going is so retahded they should have their board membership revoked.

 

This was a clean, hard and brutal hit. Clark wasn't headhunting, and he read the play perfectly and did exactly what he's supposed to do. All you phags who think that football should be played in tu-tu's by little girls with pink painted toenails feel free to go watch womens synchronized gymnastics. HTH

[jgcrawfish 232]

Hey, look...another Steeler fan that thinks it was a clean hit.

 

And he did lower the crown of his helmet, lead and launch(his feet never would have come off the ground if he didn't) into McGahee. I honestly don't see anyone can watch that video and not see that.

 

His freaking feet were on the ground until the hit. 1. NO flag was thrown. 2. The league has made no comment what-so-ever about the hit. 3. Of course he lowered the crown of his helmet you dumbass, nobody tackles anybody standing straight up. 4. It doesn't matter one iota if he lowered his head as long as he moved it to the side. 4. There isn't any rule about lowering your head, so he didn't do anything wrong.

 

gawd spare us from whiners...

[Franknbeans 46]

Yeah, his feet were on the ground as he was launching up and through Mcgahee's head. Do you really think that Mcgahee did anything to cause Clark to come off the ground? And have you ever heard the expression, "see what you hit."? You should because it's been mentioned several times in this thread. Do you think Clark could see Mcgahee as he was driving his helmet right into Mcgahee's ear hole?

 

Listen, I get it. You're a "joe sixpack" tough guy that drives a chevy like Howie Long. You're a real man and violence in any form is cool. Let's not let silly things like "rules" get in the way of our violence.

So now you don't like violence in professional football? Classic shtick.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Yeah, his feet were on the ground as he was launching up and through Mcgahee's head. Do you really think that Mcgahee did anything to cause Clark to come off the ground? And have you ever heard the expression, "see what you hit."? You should because it's been mentioned several times in this thread. Do you think Clark could see Mcgahee as he was driving his helmet right into Mcgahee's ear hole?

 

Listen, I get it. You're a "joe sixpack" tough guy that drives a chevy like Howie Long. You're a real man and violence in any form is cool. Let's not let silly things like "rules" get in the way of our violence.

 

ETA: Why even the mention the refs? Are the always right? Were they right when they ruled that Holmes didn't catch the ball on the goal line?

 

Yes, they were right. They interpreted the rule correctly. Do I feel robbed, absofreakinglutely! I longed for the days of "the ground can't cause a fumble" at that moment. But, as far as I know, "see what you hit" isn't in the rule book anywhere, is it?

[parrot 789]

Next time maybe he'll try and hit a RB standing straight up so the RB runs him over.

 

Yeah, those are his two options, either go for the head or get run over. A good form tackle where he hits him low and wraps up like he's been taught since he was five years old would obviously be impossible.

[The Hood 9]

There will be no fine for Pittsburgh's Ryan Clark for his hit on Baltimore running back Willis McGahee. I spoke today with Mike Pereira, the league's vice president of officiating, and he said that once McGahee caught the ball and headed upfield he no longer was subject to the rules that protect quarterbacks or wide receivers in vulnerable positions. Yes, Pereira said, the hit was a helmet-to-helmet collision, but that's a penalty or finable offense only when it happens to quarterbacks in the throwing position or wide receivers who are unprotected while trying to catch the football. McGahee, he said, no longer was a receiver in a vulnerable position once he turned and headed upfield. Hence, the hit was legal.

 

Won't change anyone's mind I'm sure but here's what Pereira said to Mike Judge CBSsportline about the play.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

A good form tackle where he hits him low and wraps up like he's been taught since he was five years old would obviously be impossible.

Agree 110%.

[TD Ryan2 316]

so this is how it goes?

 

the Steeler fans come out of the woodwork and come across like complete jack asses with their "tough guy", myopic views on things.

 

I suppose this is what happened with the Patriots, but instead of a "tough guy" schtick, it was a "we're smarter than you, genius" schtick. I can see how that would rub the wrong way.

 

Clark left his feet.

Clark did not use his arms to "tackle", he folded them in and missiled himself at McGahee.

Clark hit him high.

Clark hit him helmet to helmet.

 

Here's the thing, the legality of the hit is debatable.

There is no absolute correct answer either way.

But is is debatable.

This whole, "it's legal, shut up pansies" is what makes the Steeler fanbase sound like a bunch of mouth-breathers.

It was an awesome hit and if I was a fan of PIT, I'd have been up cheering and high fiving (until I saw McGahee was hurt).

But the necessity and legality of hits like that are, without question, debatable.

And to pretend otherwise simply because of your laundry allegiance is pathetic.

 

which brings us full circle to the point of t.j.'s thread:

should this be enforced more?

it's a simple yes or no.

Clark is being a hard hitting, tone-setter for his team: this is the kind of enforcement expected from him out there.

But should the league look harder at this type of play?

Should the league make more of an effort to enforce the rule, which the way it is currently written, would suggest the the hit is illegal to begin with.

[Snuff 10]

Won't change anyone's mind I'm sure but here's what Pereira said to Mike Judge CBSsportline about the play.

 

So, even the league is saying it was a brutal, but legal hit. Kinda like what we've all been trying to tell some of these shmucks. Imagine that.......

Color me shocked.

[Snuff 10]

No, I absolutely do. I was obviously making a point that every Steeler fan along with most other fans of other teams along with the league, the officials, and sportswriters from across the countryis making it sound like anyone that doesn't think hit was 100% pure football is a bedwetting momma's boy. I wouldn't expect you to get that though.

 

Fixed.

[Snuff 10]

so this is how it goes?

 

the Steeler fans come out of the woodwork and come across like complete jack asses with their "tough guy", myopic views on things.

 

I suppose this is what happened with the Patriots, but instead of a "tough guy" schtick, it was a "we're smarter than you, genius" schtick. I can see how that would rub the wrong way.

 

Clark left his feet.

Clark did not use his arms to "tackle", he folded them in and missiled himself at McGahee.

Clark hit him high.

Clark hit him helmet to helmet.

 

Here's the thing, the legality of the hit is debatable.

There is no absolute correct answer either way.

But is is debatable.

This whole, "it's legal, shut up pansies" is what makes the Steeler fanbase along with most other fans of other teams along with the league, the officials, and sportswriters from across the country sound like a bunch of mouth-breathers.

It was an awesome hit and if I was a fan of PIT, I'd have been up cheering and high fiving (until I saw McGahee was hurt).

But the necessity and legality of hits like that are, without question, debatable.

And to pretend otherwise simply because of your laundry allegiance is pathetic.

 

which brings us full circle to the point of t.j.'s thread:

should this be enforced more?

it's a simple yes or no.

Clark is being a hard hitting, tone-setter for his team: this is the kind of enforcement expected from him out there.

But should the league look harder at this type of play?

Should the league make more of an effort to enforce the rule, which the way it is currently written, would suggest the the hit is illegal to begin with.

 

Yeah, I went ahead and fixed this one too. You are quite welcome.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Anyone whining about a clean and legal hit for 5 pages needs to start watching water polo.

The block Sweed threw was worse as far as being close to dirty (and was helmet to helmet).