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edjr

When it happened I agreed with Bill Belichick's call to go for it

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I wish BB would have kicked the ball away, but belichick does have three rings and a 298 I.Q. so he must be right. He also dates beautiful women and coaches the greatest Qb ever.

As a pats fan, deep down I know the colts only won on the scoreboard.

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Because, as I've said all along, while 4th and 2 may be a 50/50 shot, its ignoring the rest of the situation.

 

No, to base your whole opinion based on that one probability is to ignore the rest of the situation. Please answer a couple simple questions for me;

 

ALL things considered, in your opinion,

 

What do you feel the Colts chances of scoring after a punt would have been?

 

What do you feel the Colts chances of scoring from the 30 after the stop were?

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No, to base your whole opinion based on that one probability is to ignore the rest of the situation. Please answer a couple simple questions for me;

 

ALL things considered, in your opinion,

 

What do you feel the Colts chances of scoring after a punt would have been?

 

What do you feel the Colts chances of scoring after the stop were?

 

im not sure I understand that first sentence. I am certainly not basing MY opinion on one probability, so I hope you were not referring to me.

 

as far as your questions, i know you won't agree but

 

after a punt I feel the Colts chances of scoring a touchdown were less than 50%.

 

why? the Pats had already stopped them a bunch of times that game. They forced the Colts to punt I think 7 times. They had held Dallas Clark relatively in-check and picked Manning twice. Punting in that situation and giving the Colts the long field dictates their play calling. This is an advantage for the defense.

 

after the 4th down stop was made I feel the Colts chances of scoring were around 80%.

 

why? Momentum just had a huge swing, Colts players spirits are high after their defense stiffened and delivered, Pats players spirits are a bit diminished after the 4th down fail. The Colts can use their entire playbook and don't have to worry about using the sideline. The Patriots have 0 timeouts so the Colts can milk every second off the clock.

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im not sure I understand that first sentence. I am certainly not basing MY opinion on one probability, so I hope you were not referring to me.

 

as far as your questions, i know you won't agree but

 

after a punt I feel the Colts chances of scoring a touchdown were less than 50%.

 

why? the Pats had already stopped them a bunch of times that game. They forced the Colts to punt I think 7 times. They had held Dallas Clark relatively in-check and picked Manning twice. Punting in that situation and giving the Colts the long field dictates their play calling. This is an advantage for the defense.

 

after the 4th down stop was made I feel the Colts chances of scoring were around 80%.

 

why? Momentum just had a huge swing, Colts players spirits are high after their defense stiffened and delivered, Pats players spirits are a bit diminished after the 4th down fail. The Colts can use their entire playbook and don't have to worry about using the sideline. The Patriots have 0 timeouts so the Colts can milk every second off the clock.

 

How much below 50? 40%? 30%?

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last thing ill say on this topic (and its been a fun one)

 

The probability of success on that single play is not the only factor. TD Ryan tried to claim it was and that sort of sparked me for the rest of this thread. Its simply not true and any football fan should realize that.

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last thing ill say on this topic (and its been a fun one)

 

The probability of success on that single play is not the only factor. TD Ryan tried to claim it was and that sort of sparked me for the rest of this thread. Its simply not true and any football fan should realize that.

 

Non-responsive, so I'm going to fill in the blanks if anyone is still following this topic;

 

WW feels that the Patriots convert the first down 50% of the time, so in ten tries they win 5 times outright.

 

WW also feels that the Colts score a TD after the stop 80% of the time, so the Pats win two times in ten even if they fail to convert.

 

So basically the Pats win 7 in ten times by going for it.

 

Ergo, to feel that punting is a more attractive option, you have to put the Colts chances of scoring after the punt at less than 30%, because the Pats need to win more than 70% of the time. I just don't see how you can put their chances of scoring from 30 yards at 80% - in your own estimation - but put their chances at scoring from 70 at <30% regardless of whether they can use the whole playbook or not.

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Non-responsive, so I'm going to fill in the blanks if anyone is still following this topic;

 

WW feels that the Patriots convert the first down 50% of the time, so in ten tries they win 5 times outright.

 

WW also feels that the Colts score a TD after the stop 80% of the time, so the Pats win two times in ten even if they fail to convert.

 

So basically the Pats win 7 in ten times by going for it.

 

Ergo, to feel that punting is a more attractive option, you have to put the Colts chances of scoring after the punt at less than 30%, because the Pats need to win more than 70% of the time. I just don't see how you can put their chances of scoring from 30 yards at 80% - in your own estimation - but put their chances at scoring from 70 at <30% regardless of whether they can use the whole playbook or not.

 

sorry, i didn't feel the need to respond because I knew you were going to use my opinional %'s to attempt to show BB made the smart call. Once again, ONLY going by the statistics.

 

If thats what you want to do

 

A. congrats, Bill made the smart move and either most coaches would have done the same thing in that situation OR Bill is just much smarter than other coaches.

 

B. stop watching football and stick to simple games of chance.

 

If you want to go strictly by statistics, in the future I would suggest also including statistics for every scenario such as:

what would be the Colts chances of scoring after a punt if the Pats bring a heavy blitz?

what if the Pats play a strict prevent?

 

how about the same scenarios after the Pats turn it over on 4th and 2?

 

how about the odds that even after converting 4th and 2, the Colts (with 1 timeout left) force a punt with ~30 seconds left?

 

What are the chances of an interception on a pass play? The Colts will need to run more pass plays after a punt than after a turnover.

 

What are the chances a player gets tackled in bounds during the longer 2 minute drive and the Colts run out of time?

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pats bring heavy blitz after punt: % chance of colts TD =40%

 

% chance of colts score on 28 yard line= 80%

 

Kick the punt. :dunno:

 

:wave:

 

stick to your basic probabilities arguments all ya want. BB is infallible :(

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I wish BB would have kicked the ball away, but belichick does have three rings and a 298 I.Q. so he must be right. He also dates beautiful women and coaches the greatest Qb ever.

As a pats fan, deep down I know the colts only won on the scoreboard.

 

:) but up top, on the surface, they didn't ????!!!

 

 

:lol: isn't that only place that matters??!!! :ninja:

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:) but up top, on the surface, they didn't ????!!!

:lol: isn't that only place that matters??!!! :ninja:

 

 

sometimes the better team loses..........I saw the game and I can tell you this......the pats dominated all phases for most of the game. For three qts the pats were killing the colts. It took a miracle for manning to score more points than the pats and even then it took several NE mistakes. Mistakes that are rare and quite frankly, wont happen again when we play the colts in the playoffs. That maroney fumble was so fluke that you could play 100 games and only have it happen in 1 of them. The pats looked to get the 4th and 2nd but the refs said no....... I think they got it and have the Tivo evidence to support my claim. Scoreboards dont tell the whole story.

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When Barry Switzer did this he was consider the biggest Bozo in the NFL. Belichoke should also!

 

And Switzer even did the logical thing and ran on third down to force the Eagles to burn another timeout and to also run some clock. If they (the Patriots) believed they would even remotely consider going for it on 4th down from this position, then they should have run the ball on third.

 

Everyone continues to skirt the timeouts issue; that would also be a huge portion of the decision. This wasn't a well-thought out decision by the Patriots coaching staff/team. It was a pathetic display of game/clock/timeout management in a game where they were leading.

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sometimes the better team loses..........I saw the game and I can tell you this......the pats dominated all phases for most of the game. For three qts the pats were killing the colts. It took a miracle for manning to score more points than the pats and even then it took several NE mistakes. Mistakes that are rare and quite frankly, wont happen again when we play the colts in the playoffs. That maroney fumble was so fluke that you could play 100 games and only have it happen in 1 of them. The pats looked to get the 4th and 2nd but the refs said no....... I think they got it and have the Tivo evidence to support my claim. Scoreboards dont tell the whole story.

And the Colts made costly mistakes too, like Manning/Wayne's miscommunication that lead to an INT and a FG for NE. Or the punt return they allowed down to their 8 yard line, or the 5 dropped passes between Garcon and Collie. No team plays a perfect game, and as well as both QBs played in this game, neither NE or Indy brought their A game. New England was close for about 55 minutes, while the Colts brought their A+ game for the last 5 minutes.

 

And you don't have the Tivo evidence to support your claim - there's no angle down the first down marker...basically deeming it impossible to know for certain where the ball should be spotted. Of course, except to you Patriots fans who ABSOLUTELY KNOW he got the 1st down :lol:

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I wish BB would have kicked the ball away, but belichick does have three rings and a 298 I.Q. so he must be right. He also dates beautiful women and coaches the greatest Qb ever.

As a pats fan, deep down I know the colts only won on the scoreboard.

 

 

deep down, you also know that he only has those 3 rings thanks to the bogus tuck rule and spying on other teams, right?

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And the Colts made costly mistakes too, like Manning/Wayne's miscommunication that lead to an INT and a FG for NE. Or the punt return they allowed down to their 8 yard line, or the 5 dropped passes between Garcon and Collie. No team plays a perfect game, and as well as both QBs played in this game, neither NE or Indy brought their A game. New England was close for about 55 minutes, while the Colts brought their A+ game for the last 5 minutes.

 

And you don't have the Tivo evidence to support your claim - there's no angle down the first down marker...basically deeming it impossible to know for certain where the ball should be spotted. Of course, except to you Patriots fans who ABSOLUTELY KNOW he got the 1st down :rolleyes:

actually nbc sunday night games have online shots that allow you to choose several different camera angles. i changed the feed to the side shot and recorded it. I have the evidence.

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deep down, you also know that he only has those 3 rings thanks to the bogus tuck rule and spying on other teams, right?

the tuck rule was on the record book for a long time before the pats benefited from it. Also, brady tossed 50 Tds in a season the most domiant qb performance ever......i think we can all lay to rest the arguement that brady is a system guy...dude tossed 50 tds....you dont do that unless you are a mvp stud hof guy.

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the tuck rule was on the record book for a long time before the pats benefited from it. Also, brady tossed 50 Tds in a season the most domiant qb performance ever......i think we can all lay to rest the arguement that brady is a system guy...dude tossed 50 tds....you dont do that unless you are a mvp stud hof guy.

I'll agree that Brady is FAR from a system guy...has he benefited from a pass-happy offense the past few years?? Sure, but that doesn't make him a system QB. If you put him with some solid WR options in a different system, he's still a great QB...

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actually nbc sunday night games have online shots that allow you to choose several different camera angles. i changed the feed to the side shot and recorded it. I have the evidence.

In a league where a WR can leave his feet to jump slightly for a ball in the endzone, catch it, bring one foot down, the second foot down, fall to the ground, have his butt and elbow on the ground, but as the ball hits the ground, it moves an inch - THAT'S NOT POSSESSION. So when K. Faulk leaves his feet to make this catch, I really have no idea when you can DEFINITIVELY say he has possession. And when you bobble the ball, you don't get forward momentum until you've proven you have complete possession, which to me would seem like after he gets to the ground.

 

I'm not saying it proves he was short of the line, trust me, I don't think it will EVER get settled...But I do think it shows some perspective as to why it's not so easy that the ball crossed the line.

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the tuck rule was on the record book for a long time before the pats benefited from it. Also, brady tossed 50 Tds in a season the most domiant qb performance ever......i think we can all lay to rest the arguement that brady is a system guy...dude tossed 50 tds....you dont do that unless you are a mvp stud hof guy.

 

 

hes a great qb but the team was stealing the oppositions signals...lets not ignore that big fact....

 

 

and it wasnt a miracle that indy won sunday..the game is 60 minutes....BB's playcall takes a lot of blame away from the pats shoddy defense....

 

BB knew, as did others...if he didnt make the 1st down there...or had to punt and it would take 70 yards..it didnt matter....the signal stealing days are over...peyton was leading them to the td....

 

better team may have lost..but the better team also has a loss in the standings....sure, THAT makes sense...

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And Switzer even did the logical thing and ran on third down to force the Eagles to burn another timeout and to also run some clock. If they (the Patriots) believed they would even remotely consider going for it on 4th down from this position, then they should have run the ball on third.

 

Everyone continues to skirt the timeouts issue; that would also be a huge portion of the decision. This wasn't a well-thought out decision by the Patriots coaching staff/team. It was a pathetic display of game/clock/timeout management in a game where they were leading.

 

Now that some time has passed and I can start thinking clearly now - here is a big issue that really cost the Pats:

 

 

After going up by 13 the Pats kickoff and the Colts have 4+ minutes to score a TD, get the ball back, and score another TD. The Pats were basically playing prevent - basically trading a TD for time off the clock at this point. Their defense then allowed the Colts to march down the field in about 2 minutes and score. The Pats D really screwed the pooch here. They needed to get down to the 2 minute warning before the Colts score. If they were able to do that then the Colts would have had 2 options:

 

Option 1 - Kickoff and use all 3 timeouts and hope you get a 3 and out and get the ball back to Manning with about 1:35 left. This would not have been impossible but without a timeout the margin for error is much smaller.

 

Option 2 - onside kick. If they recover then they have all 3 timeouts and only have to go about 55-60 yards. Most likely the Pats recover the kick though and Indy still has to use all 3 timeouts and now has to go 80+ yards because the Pats most likely punt knowing that they can pin them deep. Small chance Pats might even go for a FG depended on where they recover the kick and whether or not they can run the ball for a few yards.

 

Now some of you might say that if the Pats had just ran the ball on 3rd down, then the Colts would then have taken their 3rd timeout and if BB didn't do it then, why would he have punted in these 2 scenarios? Here's why - if the Pats run it on 3rd and 2 and the Colts stop them, they could have let it go down to the 2 minute warning and would have saved their last timeout. If the Pats punt, the Colts get the ball with just under 2 minutes and 1 timeout. This is exactly what BB was trying to avoid and why he went for it on 4th down.

 

There's a big difference with having 2 minutes and 1 timeout and 1:35 and no timeouts. The Pats could have forced them to use the middle of the field and it takes time to get everyone back to the line to clock it after a completion. The Colts would have had very little margin for error and Manning would have been forced to take more chances which might have resulted in a pick. One sack basically kills that drive because the WRs need to get back to the line and too much time is wasted. Colts can't really run the ball and I think BB would be much more comfortable putting his D in that situation.

 

Bottom line - Pats D blew it by letting the Colts score so quickly when they were up by 13. This is the kind of situational football that BB is always talking about and it must be driving him crazy.

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Oh how this is going to turn into high octane focking jet fuel for the Pats.

 

I cannot wait to watch the rest of the season. Not only do I want nothing more than to meet Indy in the AFC Championship, I want to watch Brady dismantle the Jets and Saints souls the next 2 weeks.

 

:music_guitarred:

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sorry, i didn't feel the need to respond because I knew you were going to use my opinional %'s to attempt to show BB made the smart call. Once again, ONLY going by the statistics.

 

If thats what you want to do

 

A. congrats, Bill made the smart move and either most coaches would have done the same thing in that situation OR Bill is just much smarter than other coaches.

 

B. stop watching football and stick to simple games of chance.

 

If you want to go strictly by statistics, in the future I would suggest also including statistics for every scenario such as:

what would be the Colts chances of scoring after a punt if the Pats bring a heavy blitz?

what if the Pats play a strict prevent?

 

how about the same scenarios after the Pats turn it over on 4th and 2?

 

how about the odds that even after converting 4th and 2, the Colts (with 1 timeout left) force a punt with ~30 seconds left?

 

What are the chances of an interception on a pass play? The Colts will need to run more pass plays after a punt than after a turnover.

 

What are the chances a player gets tackled in bounds during the longer 2 minute drive and the Colts run out of time?

 

Why are you still babbling about statistics? That post had nothing to do with statistics, it was based on estimated probabilites that came from YOU.

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And you don't have the Tivo evidence to support your claim - there's no angle down the first down marker...basically deeming it impossible to know for certain where the ball should be spotted. Of course, except to you Patriots fans who ABSOLUTELY KNOW he got the 1st down :pointstosky:

 

He's not a Pats fan. :banana:

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Non-responsive, so I'm going to fill in the blanks if anyone is still following this topic;

 

WW feels that the Patriots convert the first down 50% of the time, so in ten tries they win 5 times outright.

 

WW also feels that the Colts score a TD after the stop 80% of the time, so the Pats win two times in ten even if they fail to convert.

 

So basically the Pats win 7 in ten times by going for it.

 

Ergo, to feel that punting is a more attractive option, you have to put the Colts chances of scoring after the punt at less than 30%, because the Pats need to win more than 70% of the time. I just don't see how you can put their chances of scoring from 30 yards at 80% - in your own estimation - but put their chances at scoring from 70 at <30% regardless of whether they can use the whole playbook or not.

 

 

This is exactly why I was fine with the decision. Was it a clear cut decision? Absolutely not. But I think its crazy that anyone is bashing Belichick and saying it was the worst coaching decision they've ever seen. Umm...its easily arguable that the decision he made was the one that gave the Patriots the best chance to win. It did not work out. But I think if he made the same decision 100 times, it would work out much more often than not. The arbitrary probabilities are impossible to know. Its all a best guess estimation of the probabilities. You can say it opened up the Colts playbook and all that. Yes it did, but thats why you are assigning an 80% Colts success rate scoring from the 28 (very high compared to league average) and a 40% success rate for the Colts scoring having to go 70-80 yards (about right).

 

WhiteWonder, I can't really argue with anything you have said except that these are not statistics from past results, they are probabilities of winning the game. As mentioned they are obviously arbitrary and impossible to know, but by making best guess estimations of the probabilities of each occurrence, I think it can be argued that the decision gave the Pats the best chance to win. It also can be argued that it did not give them the best chance to win. My main argument is with people that are saying the decision was absolutely horrible and that Belichick is an idiot.

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This is exactly why I was fine with the decision. Was it a clear cut decision? Absolutely not. But I think its crazy that anyone is bashing Belichick and saying it was the worst coaching decision they've ever seen. Umm...its easily arguable that the decision he made was the one that gave the Patriots the best chance to win. It did not work out. But I think if he made the same decision 100 times, it would work out much more often than not. The arbitrary probabilities are impossible to know. Its all a best guess estimation of the probabilities. You can say it opened up the Colts playbook and all that. Yes it did, but thats why you are assigning an 80% Colts success rate scoring from the 28 (very high compared to league average) and a 40% success rate for the Colts scoring having to go 70-80 yards (about right).

 

WhiteWonder, I can't really argue with anything you have said except that these are not statistics from past results, they are probabilities of winning the game. As mentioned they are obviously arbitrary and impossible to know, but by making best guess estimations of the probabilities of each occurrence, I think it can be argued that the decision gave the Pats the best chance to win. It also can be argued that it did not give them the best chance to win. My main argument is with people that are saying the decision was absolutely horrible and that Belichick is an idiot.

 

Solid post again. :doublethumbsup:

 

People have gotten way bogged down thinking this is an argument about statistics, or historical trends, or whatever. It's a tip that IT'S NOT. It's about what was happening IN THIS GAME.

 

It was fourth and two, not fourth and 8, not fourth and 6, not fourth and 4, fourth and TWO. A pretty attainable distance. So the choice is you can either try to convert two yards with your very good offense against a pretty average defense - and still leave your own defense some chance of making a stop even if you fail - or you can just willingly roll over and punt the ball back to the best late game QB in the game and the offense that has gashed your tired defense on two of the last three drives (the other driving ending in an interception that was the result of an obvious miscommunication, not any kind of notable play on the defenses part). Are you taking a big risk by going for it? Absolutely, but you're also going after a huge reward, which is that Peyton never touches the ball again. Far and away your most desired result. THAT'S why it's a perfectly acceptable decision in my mind.

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hes a great qb but the team was stealing the oppositions signals...lets not ignore that big fact....

and it wasnt a miracle that indy won sunday..the game is 60 minutes....BB's playcall takes a lot of blame away from the pats shoddy defense....

 

BB knew, as did others...if he didnt make the 1st down there...or had to punt and it would take 70 yards..it didnt matter....the signal stealing days are over...peyton was leading them to the td....

 

better team may have lost..but the better team also has a loss in the standings....sure, THAT makes sense...

ok, there is only proof of this occurring for that jets game. I repeat one game. If you think Ne is the only team to ever do this for a game then you are mistaken. The dolphins have been trying to steal pats plays for years.

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ok, there is only proof of this occurring for that jets game. I repeat one game. If you think Ne is the only team to ever do this for a game then you are mistaken. The dolphins have been trying to steal pats plays for years.

Proof of other teams cheating?? Besides the fact that you got caught and are trying to rationalize it?

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the tuck rule was on the record book for a long time before the pats benefited from it. Also, brady tossed 50 Tds in a season the most domiant qb performance ever......i think we can all lay to rest the arguement that brady is a system guy...dude tossed 50 tds....you dont do that unless you are a mvp stud hof guy.

 

Brady tossed those BECAUSE of Randy Moss...was a statistical anomaly. He's on pace for 33 TD's this year. To support this, and since some folks here LOVE stats...

 

Year YD/gm % Chng TD/gm % Chng INT/gm % Chng

2009 304.3 1.3% 2.11 -32.6% 0.67 34.0%

2007 300.4 36.2% 3.13 108.7% 0.50 -33.3%

2006 220.6 -14.1% 1.50 -8.0% 0.75 -14.8%

2005 256.9 11.3% 1.63 -6.9% 0.88 0.0%

2004 230.8 2.0% 1.75 21.5% 0.88 17.3%

2003 226.3 -3.8% 1.44 -17.7% 0.75 -14.8%

2002 235.3 24.2% 1.75 45.8% 0.88 10.0%

2001 189.5 n/a 1.20 n/a 0.80 n/a

 

I threw out the 01 (Brady's first and not a full one) and 08 (injury) seasons. The stats show that Brady's production increased DRAMATICALLY with the addition of Moss (and maybe to a lesser extent Welker). In fact, the addition of those two resulted in almost a 33% increase in yardage over his CAREER average, a 102% in increase in TD production over his CAREER average and a nearly 40% decrease in interceptions over his CAREER average.

 

So the bottom line to all the Brady nob-slobbers like yourself...it sure helps to make your pretty boy QB look a lot better statistically to have arguably the most talented HOF WR EVER out there hauling in 23 of his TD passes for nearly 1500 yrds. thanks for playing...

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ok, there is only proof of this occurring for that jets game. I repeat one game. If you think Ne is the only team to ever do this for a game then you are mistaken. The dolphins have been trying to steal pats plays for years.

 

you're full of sh!t. there were 6 tapes in addition to the one that was leaked...

 

There were six tapes, according to Goodell -- some from the 2007 preseason, and the rest from 2006. He also said they were destroyed in order to prevent leaks to the media, as one tape was leaked to the media just after the Patriots-New York Jets game in September 2007, when NFL security confiscated a video camera and tape from a Patriots video assistant during New England's 38-14 victory over New York at Giants Stadium.

 

players have reported being given stacks of papers showing the plays and calls before the game and sometimes during halftime. This was systematic cheating.

 

*

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My favorite part of this whole thread is when somebody agrees with parrot his says: "Solid Post"

 

When their OPINION differs he calls them a focking idiot.

 

:doublethumbsup:

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Solid post again. :(

 

People have gotten way bogged down thinking this is an argument about statistics, or historical trends, or whatever. It's a tip that IT'S NOT. It's about what was happening IN THIS GAME.

 

It was fourth and two, not fourth and 8, not fourth and 6, not fourth and 4, fourth and TWO. A pretty attainable distance. So the choice is you can either try to convert two yards with your very good offense against a pretty average defense - and still leave your own defense some chance of making a stop even if you fail - or you can just willingly roll over and punt the ball back to the best late game QB in the game and the offense that has gashed your tired defense on two of the last three drives (the other driving ending in an interception that was the result of an obvious miscommunication, not any kind of notable play on the defenses part). Are you taking a big risk by going for it? Absolutely, but you're also going after a huge reward, which is that Peyton never touches the ball again. Far and away your most desired result. THAT'S why it's a perfectly acceptable decision in my mind.

 

not to get into this again but alot of the BB supporters were posting numbers, odds and stats to support his decision. I could go ahead and post another list of quotes but im not in the mood. Off the top of my head TD Ryan claimed that the 50/50 odds for the single play were all that mattered. EDJR cited the patriots historical success rate on 4th down (since 2001).

 

so to claim this isn't an argument about odds or stats or numbers is pure BS.

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so to claim this isn't an argument about odds or stats or numbers is pure BS.

 

 

It is and it isn't. The people that are saying sh!t like, "The Patriots will convert that 60% of the time and the Colts will score 53% of the time" are full of crap for the reasons you mentioned (ie the human element). However, what many people are saying is that, if you try your best to quantify the human element into some number, which is strictly opinion, there is little difference between punting and going for it, and this is born out by taking those human elements we tried to quantify into some vague percentages and carrying out a simple calculation.

 

We understand the percentages aren't perfect. We've said that several times. The point is that even given all kinds of slop in those numbers to account for the very, very, very important human element, going for it and punting are still basically a wash with many scenarios actually slightly in favor of going for it.

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I looked at that play so many times and I'd say that even with the quick bobble he did have the first down. I feel that he had control even after the bobble and was just over the first down mark and then was knocked backwards.

 

When the play was about to happen my initial thought was "How much is left on the clock?

Then as they lined up and ran the play I thought it was a good move. I felt that way because if they didn't make it and the Colts scored a Td than NE still had time and only needed a Fg to win.

With Brady, Moss and Welker I like my chances to pull the game out.

 

It was an all or nothing play.

They went for the win and the refs say they came up short. I can't fault any team who has the guts to go for the win.

 

I'm sure Bill would do it again if he got the chance.

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deep down, you also know that he only has those 3 rings thanks to the bogus tuck rule and spying on other teams, right?

 

Yea... Right... Sure... Whatever you say bucko. :overhead:

 

The hilarity continues.

 

People still crying over video taped signals. I swear some of you act like you were born yesterday.

Show me one shred of evidence that the Pats benefited from any videotape? Ohh you can't? Sosad...

You want to make the accusation, back it up. Comish fining them just cause he told teams not to is not proof, sorry Charlie.

 

Itsatip. Nothing is stopping any team from writing down, photographing, or secretly video taping what signals are used. Nothing is stopping any team from using said information if they want to. Nothing is stopping teams from changing signals every week to make the entire thing a moot point that only the most rabid, ignorant homers would use to try to discredit a team they despise.

 

 

Thanks fer the laughs. :overhead:

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Yea... Right... Sure... Whatever you say bucko. :lol:

 

The hilarity continues.

 

People still crying over video taped signals. I swear some of you act like you were born yesterday.

Show me one shred of evidence that the Pats benefited from any videotape? Ohh you can't? Sosad...

You want to make the accusation, back it up. Comish fining them just cause he told teams not to is not proof, sorry Charlie.

 

Itsatip. Nothing is stopping any team from writing down, photographing, or secretly video taping what signals are used. Nothing is stopping any team from using said information if they want to. Nothing is stopping teams from changing signals every week to make the entire thing a moot point that only the most rabid, ignorant homers would use to try to discredit a team they despise.

Thanks fer the laughs. :lol:

Well since you're in the laughing mood, I'll dish out an ironic twist of humor at ya - all Patriots fans have spent the past 2 months CONSTANTLY bringing up Brady's and the Pat's 3 SuperBowl rings. It's their ONLY argument as to why Brady is better than Manning, and anytime they lose a game or whatnot, they point to their 3 championships.

 

Yet which has happened more recently, the SpyGate or the Patriots last SB (SB win by the way, not SB choke)???? OH THAT'S RIGHT, you call these people out for living in the past over something that happened from 2006-2008, doesn't that mean your rings are pretty much forgotten by now??? :sleep:

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Well since you're in the laughing mood, I'll dish out an ironic twist of humor at ya - all Patriots fans have spent the past 2 months CONSTANTLY bringing up Brady's and the Pat's 3 SuperBowl rings. It's their ONLY argument as to why Brady is better than Manning, and anytime they lose a game or whatnot, they point to their 3 championships.

 

Yet which has happened more recently, the SpyGate or the Patriots last SB (SB win by the way, not SB choke)???? OH THAT'S RIGHT, you call these people out for living in the past over something that happened from 2006-2008, doesn't that mean your rings are pretty much forgotten by now??? :sleep:

 

boom goes the dynamite!

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This is actually funny. It is NE vs the world. Just like who is the better QB. 99% of the posts supporting Brady are NE fans. The rest of us think Manning is better.

 

Obviously, Bill made the wrong call. It happened. They lost. All of you that say you would make the same call are lying. It happened. The Pats failed. There is no way you would make that call again if the situation presented itself. How could you when you know the outcome? Get over it. Thanks for all the laughs.

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