Do the Pats have any idea what they are doing?

[ICEMAN 38]

What the hell are the Patriots doing regarding the TE position? This is worse than the Red Sox/Theo Epstein with Short Stops! They waive/don't resign anyone that isn't nailed to the floor and then sign Alge Crumpler? What is this? 2006? Was there really something so critically wrong with Ben Watson and Chris Baker that you determined that you had completely butchered their evaluations so badly that they weren't even worth a spot on the team? I've got to tell you, this upcoming draft is going to reveal whether Bill Belichick has lost his fastball, or not, in my estimation. Unfortunately, this knucklehead has put the team in a position where they have to draft a TE in the first two rounds (which has been so successful over the past 10 years ) and then possibly another one in the later rounds. It's not like they didn't have enough pressing needs to address in the draft already. They need to draft at least 1 RB, a kick/punt returner, possibly 2 OLB's/DE's and the Offensive line is going to need some more bodies other than of Sebastian Vollmer in the next couple of years as well. I've got to tell you, even as a ardent Patriots fan, I haven't liked the looks of the drafts of The Great Genius over the past five years. How else can you explain all of the holes throughout the roster?

 

Is anybody else as torqued-off about the State of the Pats as I am? I'd hate to think that we are going to waste the last 3-4 years of Tom Brady's Patriot's career mired in mediocrity.

 

ICEMAN

[Walter34 3]

Why do you think they will draft a TE in the first two rounds after they signed Crumpler. Did they need to before the signing?

 

I think the move indicates that they wiont draft any TEs early and signed Crumpler as a stopgap. There were rumours where the Bears would have traded Olsen for a 2nd rounder. The Pats were the likely team for this and they did not. That tells me that have already made their TE move for 2010.

[ICEMAN 38]

The thing that truly baffles me about the Crumpler signing is that he (at this point in his career) is such a non-Belichick player. He no longer has the speed to get down field and be a receiving threat of any kind and that makes him one-dimensional. When he is on the filed, the opposing team will know that the Patriots are either running the ball, or throwing it to someone else. This guy isn't just on the back 9, he's on the back 2! There is no way that Belichock goes into the season without a receiving threat at TE, which is why I firmly believe that they will draft a TE in the 2nd round and then (most likely) another one later in the draft.

 

As far as Olsen goes, there is a better chance that the Pats trade for me than Olsen. He is another one dimensional player. All he can do is catch. His blocking is horrendous and would leave the Pats biggest commodity (Brady) vulnerable to the pass rush.

 

Who knows? This is Belichick we're talking about. For all I know he is going to trade for Antonio Gates during the draft, but I don't think so.

 

ICEMAN

[Walter34 3]

The thing that truly baffles me about the Crumpler signing is that he (at this point in his career) is such a non-Belichick player. He no longer has the speed to get down field and be a receiving threat of any kind and that makes him one-dimensional. When he is on the filed, the opposing team will know that the Patriots are either running the ball, or throwing it to someone else. This guy isn't just on the back 9, he's on the back 2! There is no way that Belichock goes into the season without a receiving threat at TE, which is why I firmly believe that they will draft a TE in the 2nd round and then (most likely) another one later in the draft.

 

As far as Olsen goes, there is a better chance that the Pats trade for me than Olsen. He is another one dimensional player. All he can do is catch. His blocking is horrendous and would leave the Pats biggest commodity (Brady) vulnerable to the pass rush.

 

Who knows? This is Belichick we're talking about. For all I know he is going to trade for Antonio Gates during the draft, but I don't think so.

 

ICEMAN

 

How many all around TEs that can catch and block are available in the draft or FA? Drafting one or two is not goimg to solve the problem for this year. TEs normally take awhile to develop. Crumpler will likely help in protection. Having another pass target until Welker is back in form seems to be the biggest gap. Otherwise, double up on Moss and the Pats are done.

[Boston Three Party 6]

Crumpler, if he even makes the team - will be a blocking TE.

 

Plain and simple.

 

DRAFT.DRAFT.AND DRAFT. Smartass.

[davidbostonisgood 2]

Wait, wut?

[Doozer 0]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I saw the Crumpler signing and thought it was alright. To me he'll primarily be a blocker (something he's good at), and although on the decline no doubt... the Tennessee situation wasn't the greatest for him to show off his receiving skill set. He's also never played with a QB of Brady's caliber, hell, Ron Mexico was the best QB of his career.

 

He could be a nice security blanket for Brady with his short to intermediate routes as Moss gets so much attention. I could see him going 40-400-5... a situational bye week filler at best.

[ratbastard1 0]

Theyll sign 3 chris baker/alex smith types after the draft. They might draft one too.

 

Im not worried about the TE position itself, but I am worried about the running game.

[Riddlen 1]

why would they need a TE that catches balls? they run 3 WRs and kevin faulk on passing downs right? what possible use would a TE be?

[doughboys_2002 11]

I really don't see an issue with the signing! The offensive line was weaker then it has been in years so getting a good blocking TE seems like a good move to me!

[Gepetto 988]

Just another signing of an old player on the decline. Nothing new for the Patriots. Not sure how they even win another SuperBowl with that philosophy considering other up and coming teams are getting younger and faster.

[DankNuggs 305]

Watson has been a bust, following Daniel Graham, another bust. Die Hard pats fans have been hoping for the second coming of Ben Coates... Crumpler is more of a Coates type TE, more blocker/possession guy, than an athletic freak too big for WR, but can't block...

 

Crumpler is a good signing.

[redtodd 7]

They have not had a good track record on drafting TE's. I should look back to see how many they have drafted over the BB era. I bet it is approaching 10.

 

None have really became much. Watson and Graham were mediocre at best (both 1st rounders), the rest were nothing (except Thomas who did OK in New Orleans).

 

I long for the days of Christian Fauria.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

How else can you explain all of the holes throughout the roster?

 

 

ICEMAN

 

quite simply, the Patriots feel like they can achieve the highest success with anyone because the "system" is the answer, not the players.

 

Asante Samuel

Richard Seymour

Adam Vinatieri

Willie McGinest

Joe Andruzzi

Damien Woody

Lawyer Milloy

Ty Law

 

all of these guys were cut/released/traded when they still had at least a few years of good play/veteran leadership to offer.

 

add in the losses of guys like Rodney Harrison and Teddy Bruschi and the lack of new leaders stepping up, specifically on defense.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

quite simply, the Patriots feel like they can achieve the highest success with anyone because the "system" is the answer, not the players.

 

Asante Samuel

Richard Seymour

Adam Vinatieri

Willie McGinest

Joe Andruzzi

Damien Woody

Lawyer Milloy

Ty Law

 

all of these guys were cut/released/traded when they still had at least a few years of good play/veteran leadership to offer.

 

add in the losses of guys like Rodney Harrison and Teddy Bruschi and the lack of new leaders stepping up, specifically on defense.

 

There are others, but I think that you completely missed the factor of money. Samuel was not cut/released/traded. He left after being franchised and took big bucks as a UFA. Woody too (way overpaid by the Lions). Vinatieri was going to resign with the Pats until the Colts came in at the 11th hour and signed him for big bucks. I think Gostkowski has done just fine for a lot less money.

 

Law was due $10M at a time when he wasn't worth it. Milloy was in a similar situation.

 

Andruzzi was done. McGinnest did not want a backup role.

 

They traded Seymour because they did not feel that they could afford both Seymour and Wilfork with new contracts and a Brady extension looming, so they got a #1.

 

A lot of people think that the Patriots don't pay and rely on the "system". If you look at how much money has been spent over the last 4-5 years, the Patriots are in the TOP 3 teams in payroll during that period. When you have success, guys are going to look for big paydays. You have to choose your battles on that wisely. The Steelers do it all the time and no one calls them cheap.

 

As far as leadership, that is one of the big reasons that Crumpler was signed. They need a character guy in the locker room. On defense, expect Wilfork to step up big in that regard with his new contract in hand.

 

The Pats will likely pick another TE in the draft, but I doubt it will be a first rounder. Crumpler will be a bridge of sorts for that pick.

[Apu Nahasapeemapetilon 0]

Rumor in DC is that the Redskins are going to trade Chris Cooley to NE for a 2010 2nd rounder and 2011 mid-rounder on draft day.

 

While a rumor, it certainly makes sense for both teams. Pat need a TE and have a lot of picks. Skins need picks and have Fred Davis who could start next year.

[redtodd 7]

quite simply, the Patriots feel like they can achieve the highest success with anyone because the "system" is the answer, not the players.

 

Asante Samuel

Richard Seymour

Adam Vinatieri

Willie McGinest

Joe Andruzzi

Damien Woody

Lawyer Milloy

Ty Law

 

all of these guys were cut/released/traded when they still had at least a few years of good play/veteran leadership to offer.

 

add in the losses of guys like Rodney Harrison and Teddy Bruschi and the lack of new leaders stepping up, specifically on defense.

 

Out of all of them, the only ones that were really missed were Samuel and maybe Law. Gotowski has been a fine replacement for Vinatieri. The only borderline one is Seymour, but I was whining about he wasn't making plays two years before he was traded. He is not as good as some people think.

[redtodd 7]

Rumor in DC is that the Redskins are going to trade Chris Cooley to NE for a 2010 2nd rounder and 2011 mid-rounder on draft day.

 

While a rumor, it certainly makes sense for both teams. Pat need a TE and have a lot of picks. Skins need picks and have Fred Davis who could start next year.

 

I would be happy with that deal.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

Out of all of them, the only ones that were really missed were Samuel and maybe Law. Gotowski has been a fine replacement for Vinatieri. The only borderline one is Seymour, but I was whining about he wasn't making plays two years before he was traded. He is not as good as some people think.

 

i dont mean to say that all these guys should have been kept. I just listed who I could think of off the top of my head as far as veteran guys who played critical roles in the Pats championship years whom I felt still had something left to offer.

 

obviously its partly a money issue as fatboy mentioned but sometimes you have to cough up a little money to keep valuable guys around and I get the feeling that Kraft and BB feel like they don't have to pay anyone because their system is THAT good.

 

I specificaly look at the guys on the defensive side of the ball. The Pats defense has been in decline the past few seasons and seemingly lacks the leadership it once had.

[ICEMAN 38]

I would be happy with that deal.

 

I think that I would sign-off on that one as well. We could use a little Captain Chaos up here!

 

ICEMAN

[DocNiner 44]

If Houston doesn't draft RB Ryan Matthews at #20 then the Pats will have a decision to make at 22. Most likely TE Gresham will be available too. I say Belichick passes on TE Gresham and drafts RB Ryan Matthews, much to the dismay and sobbing of the Chargers warroom who were hoping to get Matthews. They could still address TE in the 2nd round as they have 3 picks but is any of the TE's left worthy of a 2nd round pick. Yeah, I'drather see them trade one ofthose 2nd round picks to Washington and get Cooley.He'd certainly be a big help until Welker gets back.

 

So, if Houston takes Matthews at #20 where do the Pats go then?

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I doubt Crumpler even makes the team.

[DankNuggs 305]

If Houston doesn't draft RB Ryan Matthews at #20 then the Pats will have a decision to make at 22. Most likely TE Gresham will be available too. I say Belichick passes on TE Gresham and drafts RB Ryan Matthews, much to the dismay and sobbing of the Chargers warroom who were hoping to get Matthews. They could still address TE in the 2nd round as they have 3 picks but is any of the TE's left worthy of a 2nd round pick. Yeah, I'drather see them trade one ofthose 2nd round picks to Washington and get Cooley.He'd certainly be a big help until Welker gets back.

 

So, if Houston takes Matthews at #20 where do the Pats go then?

I think they go DE and try to get an impact pass rusher... Maybe gamble on a Carlos Dunlap

[DankNuggs 305]

I doubt Crumpler even makes the team.

LOL.... goes from Top 10-15 TE to not making the team in like a year...Short memories people have

[IGotWorms 3,315]

LOL.... goes from Top 10-15 TE to not making the team in like a year...Short memories people have

 

He was good. Now he's 33 years old. What's so hard to understand?

[doughboys_2002 11]

He was signed as a blocking TE nothing more! I think it's funny people think otherwise! Pats aren't that worried about the TE position, they are more worried about blocking and pass rushing!

 

There young LB'ers will begin to develope, as well as there CB's. The Pat's lacked a pass rush on defense, that is there largest hole! You get a pass rush, then all your 2nd and 3rd teir defensive players get better! Without a pass rush you are asking your players to do too much! CB's in 99% of there plays are only as good as the pass rush! Mayo is a very young MLB with a lot of upside, if he can develope into the leader they hope he can be then there is hope for the young defense!

 

It will be a DL and OL heavy draft for the Pats, with a RB and maybe a TE in the mix!

 

I still think McCluster is an option for the Pats, he has raw talent that (if worked right) can develope in to a really good skill set!

[redtodd 7]

i dont mean to say that all these guys should have been kept. I just listed who I could think of off the top of my head as far as veteran guys who played critical roles in the Pats championship years whom I felt still had something left to offer.

 

obviously its partly a money issue as fatboy mentioned but sometimes you have to cough up a little money to keep valuable guys around and I get the feeling that Kraft and BB feel like they don't have to pay anyone because their system is THAT good.

 

I specificaly look at the guys on the defensive side of the ball. The Pats defense has been in decline the past few seasons and seemingly lacks the leadership it once had.

 

The one player I am sure they are still kicking themselves over is Asante Samual. i bet if you were to ask them, they would admit that they screwed that up. He was worth the money and should have been kept.

 

I have no problem with the other ones being shown the door, most of them did not do much with their new teams (with the possible exception of Law). Well, actually Vinatieri did good but the Patriots did not a miss a beat with Gotkowski.

 

One problem with the Patriots though is that they have not been developing the young talent like they should the past few years, especially on defense.

[redtodd 7]

LOL.... goes from Top 10-15 TE to not making the team in like a year...Short memories people have

 

I hope he is a top TE for the Patriots, but I am skeptical too. I saw a couple of games he was in last year and he looked slower than me.

[surferskin 30]

Rumor in DC is that the Redskins are going to trade Chris Cooley to NE for a 2010 2nd rounder and 2011 mid-rounder on draft day.

 

While a rumor, it certainly makes sense for both teams. Pat need a TE and have a lot of picks. Skins need picks and have Fred Davis who could start next year.

Would be a good trade for both teams but I can't see this realistically happening. Sounds like a rumor that got started at Extremeskins.com.

[three out of four 0]

He was good. Now he's 33 years old. What's so hard to understand?

 

This is a typical case of fantasy football value versus real NFL value. In the NFL, TEs are needed to block and this guy did a great job helping to pave the way for Johnson's 2,000 yard season. The Pats gave him a 1mm signing bonus and they don't give that to guys who they think might not make the team.

 

Fisher has been gushing about this guy but it sounds like Tennessee made the decision to go with the better pass catchers to try to give their offense more balance.

 

I think this is a great signing for the Pats. They struggled in short yardage situations and in the red zone last year and he'll bring some toughness and blocking that will help in both areas.

 

Last year Watson and Baker weren't very good blocking or receiving. Crumpler will be an upgrade as far as blocking goes and any catches he makes will just be a bonus.

 

Also, I think this allows them to target a pass rusher in round one and then take a TE with one of their second round picks.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

This is a typical case of fantasy football value versus real NFL value. In the NFL, TEs are needed to block and this guy did a great job helping to pave the way for Johnson's 2,000 yard season. The Pats gave him a 1mm signing bonus and they don't give that to guys who they think might not make the team.

 

Just like they don't trade valuable draft picks for players who won't make the team (i.e. Alex Smith)? The fact is the Pats have been misfiring left and right the last couple years, and this looks like another such misfire to me. I hope I'm wrong, but somehow I doubt Crumpler is suddenly going to become a Pro Bowl TE again at the age of 33.

[three out of four 0]

You're right, blocking TEs don't go to the Pro Bowl. And that is what Crumpler is now. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have value.

[three out of four 0]

Just like they don't trade valuable draft picks for players who won't make the team (i.e. Alex Smith)? The fact is the Pats have been misfiring left and right the last couple years, and this looks like another such misfire to me. I hope I'm wrong, but somehow I doubt Crumpler is suddenly going to become a Pro Bowl TE again at the age of 33.

 

So they should hold on to all their draft picks even though half of them won't make the team? For every Moss there is an Alex Smith, for every Welker a Burgess. Of course some of these guys are going to be busts but the guys they would have drafted are also going to include some busts.

[Boston Three Party 6]

We're the kings of the 2010 draft, sign him as a blocking TE, and have no idea what we're doing?!

 

Where's KMBryant when I need him to tell me my main man BB is a tool.

 

/Oh wait.

 

I'll wait til' after draft day to gloat. I expect BIG THINGS come that Thursday night!

[kmbryant09 1]

We're the kings of the 2010 draft, sign him as a blocking TE, and have no idea what we're doing?!

 

Where's KMBryant when I need him to tell me my main man BB is a tool.

 

/Oh wait.

 

I'll wait til' after draft day to gloat. I expect BIG THINGS come that Thursday night!

I think it will be a great night for you.

 

But the Patriots have missed on a lot of picks and free agent signing recently, which is why this decision has drawn some heavy criticism. I think he has value as a blocking TE, I just think everyone expected the Patriots to try and sign a big-time, pass-catching TE. I think there were rumors about trading for Chris Cooley or Greg Olsen, both of which trump Crumpler.

 

Again, Crumpler probably is a good signing, and a great blocking TE, but with Moss aging, and Welker not even close to healthy for 2010, I still think they need a pass-catching TE.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

So they should hold on to all their draft picks even though half of them won't make the team? For every Moss there is an Alex Smith, for every Welker a Burgess. Of course some of these guys are going to be busts but the guys they would have drafted are also going to include some busts.

 

No, my point was that just because the Pats gave Crumpler a decent contract (indicating that they perceive him as valuable right now) does NOT mean that he's a lock to be on the team. A lot can change at training camp. But my overall point here is that I hope the Patriots do not consider the TE position settled because they have Crumpler. They still need a decent pass catcher, whether that comes through a trade or the draft.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

No, my point was that just because the Pats gave Crumpler a decent contract (indicating that they perceive him as valuable right now) does NOT mean that he's a lock to be on the team. A lot can change at training camp. But my overall point here is that I hope the Patriots do not consider the TE position settled because they have Crumpler. They still need a decent pass catcher, whether that comes through a trade or the draft.

 

Considering Crumpler is the only TE on the roster with any game experience, it is almost a certainty that they will be looking at a TE in the draft and probably another veteran. Given that they have no FB's either, it is not like they can mix and match.

 

One item of note is that Belichick has been utilizing the versatility of lineman to play both TE and FB in situations, which allows them to have more OL on their game day roster. At some point, you can't really just have a bunch of OL in there with no skill position guys.