Miami Heat sucxors

[KSB2424 3,174]

Well, I'm convinced. I'm sure KSB is already preparing to purchase his Miami Heat championship T-shirts. What, with Magliore in the Post and Lebron nailing free throws they're destined to win it all this year. I mean, they paid their dues in the playoffs as a young team last year so they must be ready to win it all. Just the first of at least 5 or 6 they're going to win down there in South Beach. No reason for any Heat haters to even watch the NBA this year. It's done.

 

CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!

 

Drinking again?

 

I like the Heat's chances this season. The big two's roles are being more clearly defined. Chris Bosh is settling in, the PG position seems much more stable this season with a more mature (baskeball wise) Chalmers and the addition of Norris Cole (who is scary good). They are a better team this year than last year; and last year they made it to the Finals.

 

With that said like every other NBA team they have flaws. Miami has still not come to grips with plugging in a successful Big man / Center. And their coach might be the third worse coach in the league (behind Paul Silas and Mike Brown).

 

The only team that scares me in the East is Chicago. They are very very good. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, but Miami will be a helluv of a tough out for any team this season.

 

If I was a Laker fan though, I'd prolly be more concerned with my own team. This years team looks worse than last years team and that team lost out in the playoffs. Not a good sign.

[Strike 6,034]

Does anybody here know how to successfully rip ACLs out of voodoo dolls?

 

 

Dunno but I bet a lot of people would have loved to be doing that to Lebron dolls last night. Seriously, two nights in a row he chokes down the stretch.

 

:banana:

[Strike 6,034]

Drinking again?

 

I like the Heat's chances this season. The big two's roles are being more clearly defined. Chris Bosh is settling in, the PG position seems much more stable this season with a more mature (baskeball wise) Chalmers and the addition of Norris Cole (who is scary good). They are a better team this year than last year; and last year they made it to the Finals.

 

With that said like every other NBA team they have flaws. Miami has still not come to grips with plugging in a successful Big man / Center. And their coach might be the third worse coach in the league (behind Paul Silas and Mike Brown).

 

The only team that scares me in the East is Chicago. They are very very good. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, but Miami will be a helluv of a tough out for any team this season.

 

If I was a Laker fan though, I'd prolly be more concerned with my own team. This years team looks worse than last years team and that team lost out in the playoffs. Not a good sign.

 

So basically, what you're saying with all of the above is that you still haven't learned anything about basketball even after the ownage I put on you last season? Oh well.

[KSB2424 3,174]

Is this the thread that we bump every time the Heat lose a game? I haven't seen it in a while so I'm just asking.

 

I say we probably set some ground rules. I won't bump this thread after the Heat win a game if you guys don't bump it after they lose. We'll just wait until the playoffs to start that nonsense.

 

The bad news is my post count will suffer from all the bumping that I would have done throughout the course of this season, but oh well.

 

Good Morning Laker Fans.

[cbfalcon 828]

Is this the thread that we bump every time the Heat lose a game? I haven't seen it in a while so I'm just asking.

 

I say we probably set some ground rules. I won't bump this thread after the Heat win a game if you guys don't bump it after they lose. We'll just wait until the playoffs to start that nonsense.

 

The bad news is my post count will suffer from all the bumping that I would have done throughout the course of this season, but oh well.

 

Good Morning Laker Fans.

 

Mavs fan checking in to say "congrats KSB on your regular season game 14 victory."

 

[Strike 6,034]

Is this the thread that we bump every time the Heat lose a game? I haven't seen it in a while so I'm just asking.

 

I say we probably set some ground rules. I won't bump this thread after the Heat win a game if you guys don't bump it after they lose. We'll just wait until the playoffs to start that nonsense.

 

The bad news is my post count will suffer from all the bumping that I would have done throughout the course of this season, but oh well.

 

Good Morning Laker Fans.

 

ROFLMAO. Wow the Heat are awesome. They clearly don't have any problems and are going to roll to the championship. How about instead of worrying about bumping this thread and stuff we just put some money on whether they win the championship? I mean, Wade, Lebron, and Bosh guaranfockingteed that they'd win at least 4 or 5 last year so it's pretty much a lock. And if they don't what was the point in teaming up, right? So are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? I doubt it.

[KSB2424 3,174]

So are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? I doubt it.

That would be me putting MY money where THEIR mouth is. I never gauranteed the Miami Heat would win 4 Championships. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

I do think the Heat will win at least one and maybe more by the time LeBron either leaves or retires.

 

That whole "We're gonna win 3..4..5" thing was them getting carried away in the moment. They were hamming it up and having fun. It was a bit much to say, but I don't pay it much mind.

[cbfalcon 828]

I do think the Heat will win at least one and maybe more by the time LeBron either leaves or retires.

 

Not to go over old arguments, but given what's gone down, one or two championships would make him an all time underachiever. Whereas one title in Cleveland would have made him an all time great.

 

So I'm going to twist things and combine my opinion with your predictions and say "at least you have now accepted Lebron is an all time under achiever"

[DankNuggs 305]

Basketball sucks, having the best players collude to rig the league into have 4 superteams and the rest garbage sucks...

 

I hope the heat never win a champ

[KSB2424 3,174]

Not to go over old arguments, but given what's gone down, one or two championships would make him an all time underachiever. Whereas one title in Cleveland would have made him an all time great.

 

So I'm going to twist things and combine my opinion with your predictions and say "at least you have now accepted Lebron is an all time under achiever"

I see what you did there.

 

If I was trying to be an objective 'handicapper' I would probably put the over/under on NBA Championships won by the Miami Heat w/ LeBron @ 1.5

 

Winning one would get the proverbial "monkey off the back", but to validate all the hoopla, they need to win two which would make them a multiple championship winner. I think a good betting line would be 1.5. I'd prolly lean over that number, but that's the line in the sand IMO.

[cbfalcon 828]

I see what you did there.

 

If I was trying to be an objective 'handicapper' I would probably put the over/under on NBA Championships won by the Miami Heat w/ LeBron @ 1.5

 

Winning one would get the proverbial "monkey off the back", but to validate all the hoopla, they need to win two which would make them a multiple championship winner. I think a good betting line would be 1.5. I'd prolly lean over that number, but that's the line in the sand IMO.

 

As the first super team, they need to win 3 in my mind to justify the hype. But ultimately I don't think they are put together properly. Their 2.5 superstars are iso players, the spacing is wrong, the roles are unclear, etc.

 

Granted I am biased, but if the rumors are true and next year Deron and Dwight join Dirk in Dallas, that's a super group that is put together properly. It works offensively and defensively to perfection.

[Strike 6,034]

As the first super team, they need to win 3 in my mind to justify the hype. But ultimately I don't think they are put together properly. Their 2.5 superstars are iso players, the spacing is wrong, the roles are unclear, etc.

 

Granted I am biased, but if the rumors are true and next year Deron and Dwight join Dirk in Dallas, that's a super group that is put together properly. It works offensively and defensively to perfection.

 

First super team? I guess you never watched the NBA in the 80's. There were a bunch of "super teams". League expansion thinned out the quality of teams but there were a number of teams with multiple superstars on them back then.

[KSB2424 3,174]

As the first super team, they need to win 3 in my mind to justify the hype. But ultimately I don't think they are put together properly. Their 2.5 superstars are iso players, the spacing is wrong, the roles are unclear, etc.

 

Granted I am biased, but if the rumors are true and next year Deron and Dwight join Dirk in Dallas, that's a super group that is put together properly. It works offensively and defensively to perfection.

Meh. Garnett, Peirce, Ray Allen beg to differ.

 

0 Titles means the Heat were a complete Failure

1 Title validates LeBron leaving Cleveland, but the team should be considered under-achievers

2 Titles means they are multiple champions and complete validation

3+ Titles would be a dynasty and overwhelming success

[cbfalcon 828]

First super team? I guess you never watched the NBA in the 80's. There were a bunch of "super teams". League expansion thinned out the quality of teams but there were a number of teams with multiple superstars on them back then.

 

True to a point, but those teams were seemingly built somewhat organically. The current way of doing it is stinkier.

 

Not that I really care. I only hate on Miami because it's a good time.

[cbfalcon 828]

Meh. Garnett, Peirce, Ray Allen beg to differ.

 

Good point on Boston. Miami is still gay though.

[Strike 6,034]

Is this the thread that we bump every time the Heat lose a game? I haven't seen it in a while so I'm just asking.

 

I say we probably set some ground rules. I won't bump this thread after the Heat win a game if you guys don't bump it after they lose. We'll just wait until the playoffs to start that nonsense.

 

The bad news is my post count will suffer from all the bumping that I would have done throughout the course of this season, but oh well.

 

Good Morning Laker Fans.

 

So is it ok to start ragging on the overrated Heat now?

 

[cbfalcon 828]

So is it ok to start ragging on the overrated Heat now?

 

 

I rule YES :banana:

 

Maybe they can find a way to trade for Dwight Howard in the off season. Then they'll have a chance.

[KSB2424 3,174]

The funny thing is that in our NBA preseason thread I brought up a sleeper team that will make big noise in 2012 and said to watch out for the Indiana Pacers this year. I jinxed my own self.

 

The series if far from over, but the Heat would have been better off losing Wade to injury than Bosh. The Bosh injury really stings. More than people thought.

 

ETA: What happend to Shane Battier? I can't even remember the last time he hit a jump shot. And James Jones? I realize Wade played bad last night, and the whole team didn't close the game before, but it really seems like 2 versus 5 out there. The complimentary players are just awful. NBA players, even the scrubs, should be able to knock down wide open jump shots.

[patweisers44 873]

The series if far from over, but the Heat would have been better off losing Wade to injury than Bosh. The Bosh injury really stings. More than people thought.

I would disagree with this statement. had you said Lebron, i might have been on board.

[Cruzer 1,996]

So is it ok to start ragging on the overrated Heat now?

 

I think it's clear now - Miami' success is directly tied to Greece's economy.

[Strike 6,034]

The funny thing is that in our NBA preseason thread I brought up a sleeper team that will make big noise in 2012 and said to watch out for the Indiana Pacers this year. I jinxed my own self.

 

The series if far from over, but the Heat would have been better off losing Wade to injury than Bosh. The Bosh injury really stings. More than people thought.

 

ETA: What happend to Shane Battier? I can't even remember the last time he hit a jump shot. And James Jones? I realize Wade played bad last night, and the whole team didn't close the game before, but it really seems like 2 versus 5 out there. The complimentary players are just awful. NBA players, even the scrubs, should be able to knock down wide open jump shots.

 

This is the problem I warned about when they built this team. They have no inside presence. Their club can win a lot of regular season games but in the playoffs things slow down. Half court offense and the ability to defend the inside and rebound become very important. The Heat banked on Bosh and Joel Anthony to go against front lines like Chicago, the Lakers, the Thunder, or the Spurs? Heck, when Chicago went down to injury everyone thought they'd have a cakewalk to the NBA finals. Now it appears they won't even make the conf. finals. Look at what happened to Dallas because they let Tyson Chandler walk. He added that inside defensive presence and toughness to that team that they'd never had and they won the championship. Without him they barely made the playoffs.

 

How many disappointing years in a row will it take before infighting takes over in Miami? Will they try to trade one of those guys for a more fitting replacement?

[Jeff Garcia 8]

I love seeing the Heat lose as much as I love seeing the Lakers lose.

 

 

How many trophies are you gonna win Lebron? 7? Well the first 2 years are gone 0. A superstar shouldn't miss free-throws like he has been. He isn't a big game player. Reminds me of McNabb.

 

They aren't going to beat the Pacers in this series.

[cbfalcon 828]

This is the problem I warned about when they built this team. They have no inside presence. Their club can win a lot of regular season games but in the playoffs things slow down. Half court offense and the ability to defend the inside and rebound become very important. The Heat banked on Bosh and Joel Anthony to go against front lines like Chicago, the Lakers, the Thunder, or the Spurs? Heck, when Chicago went down to injury everyone thought they'd have a cakewalk to the NBA finals. Now it appears they won't even make the conf. finals. Look at what happened to Dallas because they let Tyson Chandler walk. He added that inside defensive presence and toughness to that team that they'd never had and they won the championship. Without him they barely made the playoffs.

 

How many disappointing years in a row will it take before infighting takes over in Miami? Will they try to trade one of those guys for a more fitting replacement?

 

These 3 "superstars" are clearly not talented enough. Even if they come back and win this series, they can't beat the Spurs or Thunder.

 

Honestly, their best move is to trade Wade for Howard. It's obviously the best deal Orlando is going to get. And it transforms their team from dominant on the wings, to dominant inside with Howard and Bosh. Lets Lebron control the ball more, etc.

 

I like the theory I've read (I think Bill Simmons) that despite how much sense this makes (I think he was pushing Bosh for Howard) Miami can't ever break up the big 3 because the spurned party might get pisssed and start talking about how this whole thing was set up long before free agency.

[WhiteWonder 3,011]

i put 100 on the Pacers to win the series at 7-1 im feeling good about it!

 

 

also feeling good about my preferred potential finals matchup of Boston - San Antonio. Everyone would hate it because there are no flashy, young, high tempo teams. Everyone wants miami-okc. fock that. GO CELTICS

[KSB2424 3,174]

This is the problem I warned about when they built this team. They have no inside presence. Their club can win a lot of regular season games but in the playoffs things slow down. Half court offense and the ability to defend the inside and rebound become very important. The Heat banked on Bosh and Joel Anthony to go against front lines like Chicago, the Lakers, the Thunder, or the Spurs? Heck, when Chicago went down to injury everyone thought they'd have a cakewalk to the NBA finals. Now it appears they won't even make the conf. finals. Look at what happened to Dallas because they let Tyson Chandler walk. He added that inside defensive presence and toughness to that team that they'd never had and they won the championship. Without him they barely made the playoffs.

 

How many disappointing years in a row will it take before infighting takes over in Miami? Will they try to trade one of those guys for a more fitting replacement?

To be fair you make an excuse for Chicago with injury and seem to gloss over that the Heat lost Chris Bosh. A player, due to his position and the teams weaknesess, they couldn't afford to lose. but I digress.

 

I think everyone is jumping the gun a little bit. The seies is only 2-1. We may be a bit premature on calling the season over.

 

But lets assume the Heat lose this series for sake of discussion. The coach will be gone (as he should). I don't think you see the big three moved at all (yet). I think you see the coach gone and a total revamp of the complimentary players.

 

If that doesn't work in 2013 then you blow it up.

[Strike 6,034]

These 3 "superstars" are clearly not talented enough. Even if they come back and win this series, they can't beat the Spurs or Thunder.

 

Honestly, their best move is to trade Wade for Howard. It's obviously the best deal Orlando is going to get. And it transforms their team from dominant on the wings, to dominant inside with Howard and Bosh. Lets Lebron control the ball more, etc.

 

I like the theory I've read (I think Bill Simmons) that despite how much sense this makes (I think he was pushing Bosh for Howard) Miami can't even break up the big 3 because the spurned party might get pisssed and start talking about how this whole thing was set up long before free agency.

 

I'd trade Lebron before Wade. Regardless of how Wade has performed in this series I think he's the better player, and he's not a choker. He's a former NBA champion and finals MVP who carried a team probably less talented than the one he's currently on to the title. But other than that I agree with you 100%. They need to shore up their inside and that's not gonna happen via free agency. They can keep getting old and/or journeyman type players for minimum salary or they can make a move. Chicago is only going to be better next year. Same with Indiana and Philly most likely. So, it may not be as easy to get out of the East as it has been the last couple of years when they couldn't get it done. I don't think I'd want to keep trying with the same formula that doesn't seem to be working.

[WhiteWonder 3,011]

Meh. Garnett, Peirce, Ray Allen beg to differ.

 

0 Titles means the Heat were a complete Failure

1 Title validates LeBron leaving Cleveland, but the team should be considered under-achievers

2 Titles means they are multiple champions and complete validation

3+ Titles would be a dynasty and overwhelming success

 

the trio of Garnett, Pierce and Allen were formed in a much different fashion than the new "big three". No one ever mentions this and they get used often as a defense to the free agency built Heat. the Celtics were the doing of Boston's front office, not the doing of KG, Pierce and Allen during a free agency year. they were also already on the wrong side of 30 (KG and Allen. Pierce was 29).

 

that said, i do agree with your assessment of how the Heat will be regarded. although personally I think when a group of superstars who are also young decide to join forces they should probably win at least 2.

[Strike 6,034]

To be fair you make an excuse for Chicago with injury and seem to gloss over that the Heat losing Chris Bosh. A player, due to his position and the teams weaknesess, they couldn't afford to lose. but I digress.

 

 

If it was just one player I'd probably agree with you about Chicago. But they lost both Rose AND Noah. Those are two of their most important players.

[WhiteWonder 3,011]

To be fair you make an excuse for Chicago with injury and seem to gloss over that the Heat losing Chris Bosh. A player, due to his position and the teams weaknesess, they couldn't afford to lose. but I digress.

 

I think everyone is jumping the gun a little bit. The seies is only 2-1. We may be a bit premature on calling the season over.

 

But lets assume the Heat lose this series for sake of discussion. The coach will be gone (as he should). I don't think you see the big three moved at all (yet). I think you see the coach gone and a total revamp of the complimentary players.

 

If that doesn't work in 2013 then you blow it up.

 

i do agree with all of this

[KSB2424 3,174]

i do agree with all of this

The answer is Jerry Sloan.

[Strike 6,034]

The answer is Jerry Sloan.

 

How about Pat Riley coming out of retirement again? Worked well last time.

[cbfalcon 828]

To be fair you make an excuse for Chicago with injury and seem to gloss over that the Heat lost Chris Bosh.

 

Meh. Even without Bosh, the Heat have 2 of the 5 best players in the NBA. They don't get to blame anything on the supporting cast. When your top 3 guys make almost $60m, you'll never have a supporting cast. Dirk won a title last season without any other All Star level player on his team.

[KSB2424 3,174]

Meh. Even without Bosh, the Heat have 2 of the 5 best players in the NBA. They don't get to blame anything on the supporting cast. When your top 3 guys make almost $60m, you'll never have a supporting cast. Dirk won a title last season without any other All Star level player on his team.

This is a huge fallacy. The Heat big 3 make just as much as the top three players on almost any playoff team. They combind to make 47.5 mil this season. The big three on the Lakers combind for 58 million. The top three on Dallas is like 42 million. Boston, S.A. top three guys combind for close to 45-48 million.

 

There is a salary cap in the NBA and all top line players make roughly the same. The Heat have just as much money to spend on guys 4 thru 12 on their team as everybody else. It's a huge fallacy that the Heat are somehow the highest paid team in the league and don't have cap room like other teams.

 

My link

[cbfalcon 828]

This is a huge fallacy. The Heat big 3 make just as much as the top three players on almost any playoff team. They combind to make 47.5 mil this season. The big three on the Lakers combind for 58 million. The top three on Dallas is like 42 million. Boston, S.A. top three guys combind for close to 45-48 million.

 

There is a salary cap in the NBA and all top line players make roughly the same. The Heat have just as much money to spend on guys 4 thru 12 on their team as everybody else. It's a huge fallacy that the Heat are somehow the hight paid team in the league and don't have cap room like other teams.

 

My link

 

The issue is Miami grabbed all 3 in the same off season. Whereas most of those other threesomes were staggered and involved more Bird right's players meaning they could resign them even if over the cap.

 

But point taken that it's not fair to expect 2 of the top 5 players in the NBA along with their top 20 player buddy to be enough to win titles. Lets blame it on the GM for not putting enough badass talent around those 3.

[cbfalcon 828]

This is a huge fallacy. The Heat big 3 make just as much as the top three players on almost any playoff team. They combind to make 47.5 mil this season. The big three on the Lakers combind for 58 million. The top three on Dallas is like 42 million. Boston, S.A. top three guys combind for close to 45-48 million.

 

There is a salary cap in the NBA and all top line players make roughly the same. The Heat have just as much money to spend on guys 4 thru 12 on their team as everybody else. It's a huge fallacy that the Heat are somehow the highest paid team in the league and don't have cap room like other teams.

 

My link

 

And just as an aside, you named the other teams with top 3's as the Lakers, Boston, Dallas, and Spurs. Guess what those teams have in common?

 

The answer is they have the last 5 NBA Titles. :banana: 3 players would be more than enough if those players didn't choke!

[KSB2424 3,174]

The issue is Miami grabbed all 3 in the same off season. Whereas most of those other threesomes were staggered and involved more Bird right's players meaning they could resign them even if over the cap.

 

But point taken that it's not fair to expect 2 of the top 5 players in the NBA along with their top 20 player buddy to be enough to win titles. Lets blame it on the GM for putting enough badass talent around those 3.

It's not an excuse. There is enough blame to go around. We were talking about the supporting cast and it's okay to point out that Pat Riley has done a poor job building that aspect. It's also okay to point out that the coaching staff seems to just tell the team to play isolation on offense instead of running set plays or running at all. The Heat are dynamite in transition but Eric doesn't exploit and push that. It's bad coaching if you ask me. It's not an excuse, its an observation. Pat Riley never has answered the Center/post questions. Who to guard the Tyson Changlers and Roy Hibberts. They've run through undersized guys and has beens. It's an observation.

[Strike 6,034]

This is a huge fallacy. The Heat big 3 make just as much as the top three players on almost any playoff team. They combind to make 47.5 mil this season. The big three on the Lakers combind for 58 million. The top three on Dallas is like 42 million. Boston, S.A. top three guys combind for close to 45-48 million.

 

There is a salary cap in the NBA and all top line players make roughly the same. The Heat have just as much money to spend on guys 4 thru 12 on their team as everybody else. It's a huge fallacy that the Heat are somehow the highest paid team in the league and don't have cap room like other teams.

 

My link

 

The problem is the makeup of the stars. Look at the Lakers. Their big three - A top 10 all time NBA player, a HOF PF, and one of the top 3 centers in the league. Different positions, different skill sets, higher level accolades. Look at Dallas - A HOF PG, a HOF PF/C, and an all star caliber SG. Different positions, different skill sets, higher accolades. Boston - THREE HOF players. Different positions, different skill sets, higher level accolades. Miami - Two HOF'ers and an overrated big man. And, of course, the one thing Lebron has that not one other player we've talked about has. He has the reputation, well deserved IMO, of being a choker. Lebron and Wade have similar games. You really can't say that about any two of the other big three we've discussed. Why do you want two players that play so similarly? They can only marginalize each other a little bit. All those other teams have a better inside presence, a post up game, and are built better for the playoffs than the Heat, this years Mavs being the exception to that. So they're paying similar money for a lower overall quality set of big three that is somewhat mismatched as far as skill sets go.

 

Let me ask you this. Do you think they'd be better if, instead of Bosh, they had Tyson Chandler?

[Strike 6,034]

i put 100 on the Pacers to win the series at 7-1 im feeling good about it!

 

 

 

Good call.

[KSB2424 3,174]

Let me ask you this. Do you think they'd be better if, instead of Bosh, they had Tyson Chandler?

Out of the big three I feel the person to let go would be Wade. I've come to the conclusion that having two alpha dogs is an issue. For instance as a hypothetical if the Heat could trade Wade for a Ray Allen/Chandler combo they'd be better off. Not those players as they are on differnt teams but those 'type' of players. A secondary scoring three point SG and a true big man at center.

 

Chalmers

Allen

Lebron

Bosh

Chandler

 

is better than what they have.

[Strike 6,034]

Out of the big three I feel the person to let go would be Wade. I've come to the conclusion that having two alpha dogs is an issue. For instance as a hypothetical if the Heat could trade Wade for a Ray Allen/Chandler combo they'd be better off. Not those players as they are on differnt teams but those 'type' of players. A secondary scoring three point SG and a true big man at center.

 

Chalmers

Allen

Lebron

Bosh

Chandler

 

is better than what they have.

 

You're missing the point. You made a big deal about how their big three is relatively close in salary, as are the big three of the other upper level teams in the league. My point is that they have the WRONG three pieces. And it's not an "alpha dog" issue. Kobe and Shaq won three titles together and I think everyone would agree that they're both alpha dogs. Wade and Lebron are TOO similar in the way they play the game. They somewhat offset each other. And Bosh is overrated.