Hot Stove Baseball Thread

[heavy-set 39]

that's registering a negative 3 on my give-o-fock meter

[MedStudent 56]

I'm not crazy about the crawford signing. Another lefthanded bat for a ton of money. He is basically ellsbury with a little more homerun power. He had some knee issues. Those outfielders who play on the artificial grass for a few years can have older knees than their age shows.

 

Does this mean ellsbury is gone? They need another righthanded bat. Youk is the only righthanded bat with any power. This means that the Yankees are going to open the check book to sign Lee. And unless Texas somehow outbids them, the yanks will have two great lefthanded starters to face the Red Sox lineup dominated with lefties.

 

At least it shows the red sox owners are not content to sit on their butts and collect profits because Fenway would have been sold out regardless of the Crawford signing. I was a little worried that they might start pouring more money into their new soccer team (Liverpool) and less back into the Red Sox.

[The Hood 9]

 

At least it shows the red sox owners are not content to sit on their butts and collect profits because Fenway would have been sold out regardless of the Crawford signing. I was a little worried that they might start pouring more money into their new soccer team (Liverpool) and less back into the Red Sox.

 

TV ratings for the Redsox fell 36% last year. This isn't sitting back and collecting profits this is trying to get some back that they lost last year by making some big splashes to draw more interest back in the team.

[Cruzer 1,996]

$142 million, 7 years - for a 29 year old player who's game is built and based on speed. Eh, you can have it - bad signing in my book. Word now is Yanks have offered 7 years and $160 mil to Lee. Uh, he's a Yankee now - it's over. Don't blame my Rangers - can't tie up 25% of your payroll into 1 guy and mortgage your future. Time to move on.

[edjr 6,898]

$142 million, 7 years - for a 29 year old player who's game is built and based on speed. Eh, you can have it - bad signing in my book. Word now is Yanks have offered 7 years and $160 mil to Lee. Uh, he's a Yankee now - it's over. Don't blame my Rangers - can't tie up 25% of your payroll into 1 guy and mortgage your future. Time to move on.

 

 

I thought for sure the Yankmees were going to sign Crawford and Lee..

 

I guess Crawford didn't want to wait till the Lee negotiations were finished.

[sorrycharlie 0]

he isnt a power hitter.

 

.300, 20hrs, 90 rbi, 50 steals, 600+ AB

 

good job. who cares about the money? iam talking about the player

When has he ever hit 20 Hrs?

19 ONCE in 2004, then his bests were 16-2006/15-2005/13-2010 IOW he has little power, not even good second baseman power.

His yearly averages are:

54 Steals

78 rbis

14 hrs

.296 avg

.337 OBP

.444 slugging %

.781 OPS

 

This "Player" isn't all that, he isn't worth anywhere near 20 million, nevermind MORE than 20.

If folks think making monumental mistakes doesn't hurt the team they are mistaken, everytime Mr. Epstein does something STUPID like this it prohibits the team from making other moves that end up being necessary to clean up the mess.

 

He is a Good player, he is NOT a great player.

He is getting paid to be one of the GREATEST players, and the only thing he has in common with them, is someone else carries their luggage.

 

Bad Move and I believe it will hurt the Sox before all is said and done.

[drobeski 3,061]

Yes you guys are right Crawford makes them worse.

[tikigods 76]

Yes you guys are right Crawford makes them worse.

 

The Red Sox are the new Yankees.

[sorrycharlie 0]

The Red Sox are the new Yankees.

 

Yep that started last year when we signed our own Carl Pavano to a monster contract.

[MedStudent 56]

When has he ever hit 20 Hrs?

19 ONCE in 2004, then his bests were 16-2006/15-2005/13-2010 IOW he has little power, not even good second baseman power.

His yearly averages are:

54 Steals

78 rbis

14 hrs

.296 avg

.337 OBP

.444 slugging %

.781 OPS

 

This "Player" isn't all that, he isn't worth anywhere near 20 million, nevermind MORE than 20.

If folks think making monumental mistakes doesn't hurt the team they are mistaken, everytime Mr. Epstein does something STUPID like this it prohibits the team from making other moves that end up being necessary to clean up the mess.

 

He is a Good player, he is NOT a great player.

He is getting paid to be one of the GREATEST players, and the only thing he has in common with them, is someone else carries their luggage.

 

Bad Move and I believe it will hurt the Sox before all is said and done.

 

he hit 19 homers last year. Some scouts believe he has the potential to keep improving his power numbers. If he does not improve his power then I agree that he will be a drag on the team the last couple of years of his contract when his speed declines. But he will help the red sox in the immediate future as long as he stays healthy.

[The Hood 9]

Yes you guys are right Crawford makes them worse.

 

Not worse. I'd say better mostly due to Crawford's ability to steal. But Crawford and Gonzalez are not a huge upgrade over Beltre and Martinez .

[sorrycharlie 0]

he hit 19 homers last year. Some scouts believe he has the potential to keep improving his power numbers. If he does not improve his power then I agree that he will be a drag on the team the last couple of years of his contract when his speed declines. But he will help the red sox in the immediate future as long as he stays healthy.

 

You are correct.

19 Hrs is not enough production for 13 Million, nevermind MORE than 20 Million WTF!

They already have this guy on their team, Ellsbury is the same guy with slightly less power and experience, and makes 500K.

I just feel this guy is over rated, so I am very against this deal, I'm actually pissed that Epstein was stupid enough to get bent over like a little tramp, and it's gonna cost ticket holders as usual.

[drobeski 3,061]

Not worse. I'd say better mostly due to Crawford's ability to steal. But Crawford and Gonzalez are not a huge upgrade over Beltre and Martinez .

That would makes a lil sense if all 4 didn't play completely different positions

[The Hood 9]

That would makes a lil sense if all 4 didn't play completely different positions

 

Well maybe you were right.............. losing the big plus of having an offensive threat at catcher like Martinez for a slighlty better left fielder might not even be an improvement for the Sox. Youk can play third but he's not quite as good as Beltre there. Defense at first stays probably about the same. Playing half his games in front of the monster kind of wastes Crawford's speed on defense as well.

 

 

You were right Crawford does make them worse.

[DankNuggs 305]

When has he ever hit 20 Hrs?

19 ONCE in 2004, then his bests were 16-2006/15-2005/13-2010 IOW he has little power, not even good second baseman power.

His yearly averages are:

54 Steals

78 rbis

14 hrs

.296 avg

.337 OBP

.444 slugging %

.781 OPS

 

This "Player" isn't all that, he isn't worth anywhere near 20 million, nevermind MORE than 20.

If folks think making monumental mistakes doesn't hurt the team they are mistaken, everytime Mr. Epstein does something STUPID like this it prohibits the team from making other moves that end up being necessary to clean up the mess.

 

He is a Good player, he is NOT a great player.

He is getting paid to be one of the GREATEST players, and the only thing he has in common with them, is someone else carries their luggage.

 

Bad Move and I believe it will hurt the Sox before all is said and done.

This isn't a monumental mistake, Crawford is going to put up bigger #'s in our lineup and we now have two 50+ steal/high OBP guys early in the order. Defense is much much better with Ellsbury/Crawford/Drew in the outfield.. Adding Gonzalez at first lets you put youk at third... Scutaro is the guy that scares me, im not sure he's the right guy, but he was hurt a bunch last year so ill refrain before labelling him the next orlando cabrera.

[DankNuggs 305]

Well maybe you were right.............. losing the big plus of having an offensive threat at catcher like Martinez for a slighlty better left fielder might not even be an improvement for the Sox. Youk can play third but he's not quite as good as Beltre there. Defense at first stays probably about the same. Playing half his games in front of the monster kind of wastes Crawford's speed on defense as well.

 

 

You were right Crawford does make them worse.

Martinez is a flat out bad defensive catcher who is going to be a DH only within a year or two... Gonzalez is a much bigger bat than martinez... signing Gonzo makes Beltre superfluous, and crawford is a great multiskill player...

 

I don't see how thye lose here... Youk/Beltre at third is a wash, disagree on LF defense. And Crawford is a MUCH bigger upgrade than a 'slight' in LF... Your argument is weaksos

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Martinez is a flat out bad defensive catcher who is going to be a DH only within a year or two... Gonzalez is a much bigger bat than martinez... signing Gonzo makes Beltre superfluous, and crawford is a great multiskill player...

 

I don't see how thye lose here... Youk/Beltre at third is a wash, disagree on LF defense. And Crawford is a MUCH bigger upgrade than a 'slight' in LF... Your argument is weaksos

 

Martinez would not be catching either way. He would have to be 1B or DH in order to really play. With the exercising of Papi's option and the inevitable trade for Gonzalez, they were just using the Martinez signing to gain the 1st round pick that they have to give up for Crawford. Once Beltre signs elsewhere, they get another 1st rounder.

 

They are a better team. They overpaid for Crawford, but they needed another outfielder and Werth blew the market up. Don't forget that Drew is gone next season and RF has a lot of land to cover.

[RicemanX 20]

Yankees offer 7 years to Cliff Lee...

 

I dont get it, all that money for someone who lost TWICE in the world series?

[sorrycharlie 0]

This isn't a monumental mistake, Crawford is going to put up bigger #'s in our lineup and we now have two 50+ steal/high OBP guys early in the order. Defense is much much better with Ellsbury/Crawford/Drew in the outfield.. Adding Gonzalez at first lets you put youk at third... Scutaro is the guy that scares me, im not sure he's the right guy, but he was hurt a bunch last year so ill refrain before labelling him the next orlando cabrera.

 

50 steal High OBP guys?

Who are they?

 

I'm all for Adrian Gonzales, was very happy they traded for him.

[kilroy69 1,268]

You are correct.

19 Hrs is not enough production for 13 Million, nevermind MORE than 20 Million WTF!

 

Crawford is THE TOP 5 tool player in league filled with only a handful of players that can claim that. Taking him at his homerun numbers is shortsighted at best.

[sorrycharlie 0]

Crawford is THE TOP 5 tool player in league filled with only a handful of players that can claim that. Taking him at his homerun numbers is shortsighted at best.

 

OK

How about his weakass:

OBP

SLG

OPS

OPS+

 

Do those help?

Doesn't 5 tool mean that you can get on base?

[sorrycharlie 0]

BTW Dank, I personally think Lowrie will be the SS for the Sox if he is healthy.

I feel he's a better player than the Journeyman Scutaro.

Problem is he is as Brittle as Matt Stafford the China Doll.

[edjr 6,898]

Crawford is THE TOP 5 tool player in league filled with only a handful of players that can claim that. Taking him at his homerun numbers is shortsighted at best.

 

5 tools? Where? and top 5? no, sorry.

 

Average - slighty above average -.296 career hitter

Power - Average - 19 hrs most ever

Defense - Excellent

Throwing - below average

Running - Excellent

 

I see 3.5/4 tools at best

 

and don't tell me they are putting him in left field so his throwing doesn't matter. Why doesn't he play right field? Exactly, because he has a weak arm

[Cruzer 1,996]

Crawford is THE TOP 5 tool player in league filled with only a handful of players that can claim that. Taking him at his homerun numbers is shortsighted at best.

The TOP of the Top 5's? I question whether or not he could be ligitimately be classified as one period......... There is a true Top 5 player named Josh Hamilton that is line way ahead of him.

[MedStudent 56]

5 tools? Where? and top 5? no, sorry.

 

Average - slighty above average -.296 career hitter

Power - Average - 19 hrs most ever

Defense - Excellent

Throwing - below average

Running - Excellent

 

I see 3.5/4 tools at best

 

and don't tell me they are putting him in left field so his throwing doesn't matter. Why doesn't he play right field? Exactly, because he has a weak arm

 

He has an above average arm.

 

Crawford batted third in the lineup for the last couple of months of last season and his numbers took a very big jump in all categories. Higher average and more power. He mostly batted number 2 for the Rays. He may still have some developing ahead as he settles into the number 3 in the order.

 

Carl Crawford's warning label

If you're looking for a lead-off hitter or even someone to bat second, Carl Crawford is not your man. That's sort of the thinking in baseball's free agency as teams line up to sign the soon-to-be-former Rays leftfielder. Those in Tampa Bay are quite familiar with Crawford not leading off at this point in his career, but outside of Tampa Bay, teams and fans might think of the speedy Crawford as being a perfect top-of-the-order guy. Not so fast, says Sports Illustrated's Tom Verducci, who completely understands Crawford's role these days. Veducci writes:

 

Now here is your No. 3 hitter. Don't sign Crawford if you want a leadoff or No. 2 hitter, which is the way most baseball people have viewed the speedy Crawford. Rays manager Joe Maddon smartly moved Crawford into the middle of the order this year, recognizing his growth as a hitter.

 

At 28, Crawford is coming off career highs for home runs (19), RBI (90) and OPS (.851). He also hit a career-high flyball rate and a career-low for line drives. In other words, Crawford is transforming as a hitter, lofting more balls into the air, with more of them carrying out of the park. He profiles more as a three hitter than a table setter. That's not a bad thing; as he ages Crawford should become a steady 25-30 home run guy with 100 RBI. But he might not be quite the same devastating force on the bases. Last year Crawford attempted stolen bases less than half as often hitting third as when he hit second. Look for that trend to continue.

 

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/twocents/content/carl-crawfords-warning-label

 

 

[kilroy69 1,268]

 

 

and don't tell me they are putting him in left field so his throwing doesn't matter. Why doesn't he play right field? Exactly, because he has a weak arm

Uhhh yea the league leaders in OF assists were at 9 for the season. He had 7........what a weak ass arm

[edjr 6,898]

Uhhh yea the league leaders in OF assists were at 9 for the season. He had 7........what a weak ass arm

 

bahahahahahahaha

 

 

Outfield Assists? REALLY? That's how you judge a good arm?

 

 

Johnny Damon had 6 assists in 2009.. WHAT A FOCKING CANNON HE HAD!

[RicemanX 20]

I just don't see any pure 5 tool players out there...I guess Crawford is close...but so is:

 

Josh Hamilton

Chase Utley

Hanley Rameriez

Troy Tulololosuwisitzki

Matt Kemp...if he gets his avg up.

[kilroy69 1,268]

bahahahahahahaha

 

 

Outfield Assists? REALLY? That's how you judge a good arm?

 

 

Johnny Damon had 6 assists in 2009.. WHAT A FOCKING CANNON HE HAD!

That is one of the ways how I judge an arm. The ability to throw accurately with power and to cause the other teams players to rethink even trying to take that extra base. Jeff francour has made a living out of having a cannon and being able to do just that..lord know he can't hit a lick.

[The Hood 9]

Uhhh yea the league leaders in OF assists were at 9 for the season. He had 7........what a weak ass arm

 

Actually the leader was Choo from Indians with 14.

 

Shelly Duncan also had 7 while playing in only 85 games. He must have the best arm ever.

[edjr 6,898]

Actually the leader was Choo from Indians with 14.

 

Shelly Duncan also had 7 while playing in only 85 games. He must have the best arm ever.

 

Manny Ramirez had 17 in 2006

 

Manny > Dwight Evans

[kilroy69 1,268]

 

 

Shelly Duncan

Holy christ his parents must have hated him.

[southcarolina 166]

Highly respected baseball blogger The Ghost of Moonlight Graham says so, so it must be true:

 

Crawford has a weak arm

 

 

(about halfway down in the paragraph that starts "Over the last three seasons...")

 

 

I dont go around making detailed analyses of players throwing arms, but i have read this in several reputable places, and have no reason to disbelieve, so arguing the fact is pretty silly. Carl Crawford does in fact not have a good throwing arm.

 

 

EDIT: This is not meant to convey my dislike of the signing. For the most part i like it.

[Cruzer 1,996]

Cliff Lee talks heat up.

 

Dallas billionaire and part-Rangers owner (Ray Davis) basically said Fock this negotiations bullshiat - personally flew up to Arkansas y-day to see Lee's agent. Yes the Yanks have a lot of money, but the Rangers have very deep pockets too. Looks like the money people really want Lee here in Texas too - that's huge cuz usually the front office is trying to get them to buy into spending cash. We will see.

[Baby Jesus 0]

I just don't see any pure 5 tool players out there...I guess Crawford is close...but so is:

 

Josh Hamilton

Chase Utley

Hanley Rameriez

Troy Tulololosuwisitzki

Matt Kemp...if he gets his avg up.

Carlos Gonzales

Shin Soo Choo (still underrated)

Ryan Braun

David Wright

Ichiro could be one. He doesn't aim to hit for power.

[southcarolina 166]

 

I am not saying I dislike the signing either. I am thrilled the red sox opened up the purse strings. Also, this has nothing to do with theo and has everything to do with ownership not accepting the lower tv ratings and empty seats

 

I just don't agree with how much he was paid and I certainly do not agree with how great he all of a sudden became because the red sox overpaid him.

 

He's a 10 to 13 million dollar player.

 

 

I agree. Hopefully playing half his games in Fenway will give his numbers a boost and justify his pay. I think about 30 HR and 75 doubles would just about do it

[kilroy69 1,268]

I have suspicions that Fuentes has always been the target of the yanks to upgrade their MR and to act as an insurance policy in case one of mo's cutters causes his arm to fall off.

 

The New York Post's Joel Sherman expects the Yankees to go after Brian Fuentes or Pedro Feliciano now that Scott Downs is off the market.

Sherman writes that the Yankees weren't really in hard on Downs, anyway, because they didn't want to give up their first-round draft pick. Fuentes is reportedly looking for $6-8 million per season on his new contract, which would seem to suggest he still wants to be a closer. Feliciano would be a cheaper option.

[MedStudent 56]

Manny Ramirez had 17 in 2006

 

Manny > Dwight Evans

I am not judging him from his assists. He is rated as having an above average arm by fangraph. He prevents guys from taking the extra base with his arm. Overall he was the 4th best outfielder in baseball at preventing runs. His speed played a big role but his arm was rated as above average as well. If you think his arm is compsrable to Johnny damon's then you know no more about baseball than a pink hat.

[southcarolina 166]

He is rated as having an above average arm by fangraph.

 

 

Can i see a link for that, cuz everything i have read about him is that his throwing arm is below average to average. Not Johnny Damon-esque, but certainly not "good". Not sayng youre wrong (actually i'd be happy if you are right) but i know what ive read...

 

 

PRETEND EDIT:

Here is a link to fangraphs....i know that this isnt scientific, but it seems that the people who participated in this survey agree that Crawfords arm strength isnt anything to write home about, although he does rank pretty high in arm accuracy, which to me is more important anyway.

 

Link

 

I guess you have to click on the header to reorder the list for arm strength manually after clicking the link....

 

Either way, if the worst thing that can be said about Crawford is that his arm isnt a cannon, well then color me ecstatic. I cant wait to see him running wild on balls in the triangle, or rolling around the right field wall. I think 3 or 4 inside the park home runs is not out of the question.

[tikigods 76]

The Red Sox overpaid for Crawford. However, who the fock else was out there to get? Jayson Werthless? Red Sox tickets are already way overpriced so I don't give a rat's ass. Those Johnny Come Lately fucktards will be the dbags who pick up the tab for Crawford and A Gonz so I really could care less how much they pay these asshats per year, at bat, or outfield assist.

 

Red Sox > everyone else