Tax the Super Rich now or face a revolution

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

Although a lot of countries would love this, I don't think it'll happen. I think you are more likely to see the equilibrium being at a lower standard than the current North American one. World resources would not be able to cope with the Japanese standard of living, nevermind the American one (unless new resources are found). I know I'll be called a Malthusian alarmist but I don't care. Just look at the amount of resources currently going into China, a country that is nowhere near the US standard of living and you'll see that if you extrapolate, it makes zero sense. Prices will absolutely go through the roof and that will stall development. If I remember correctly, the current thinking is that if China gets to the Japanese standard of living, they would annually consume all of the oil currently used worldwide. I guess they could go nuclear and will likely have to but that has significant issues too and I think Uranium will become scarce too.

 

The brightest thing for humanity to do right now would be to find/use alternatives to oil whenever possible so that oil can still be available in sufficient amounts for long enough to support uses with no current practical energy alternatives, like air travel, until we find alternatives.

 

Means of production are constantly improving, meaning we can make more consumables with the same amount of raw materials. Also, 75% of the worlds resources are underwater. It may seem difficult to go down 3,000 feet under the water to mine minerals right now, but that does not that the technology will not exist in the future. As far as uranium is concerned there is more than enough easy to mine uranium.

 

 

Also there is enough oil to last a minimum of 4-5 decades, and alternative fuels are closer than that. We will not run out of travel fuel.

[parrot 789]

3 Anyone who operates on a cash basis ans is currently scamming the system (like a certain poster here) can no longer evade taxes.

 

Why? With less oversight it seems like it would be easier to evade taxes.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Why? With less oversight it seems like it would be easier to evade taxes.

 

 

Whenever you buy something you pay the tax. To evade it both you and the store owner have to break the law.

[parrot 789]

 

 

Whenever you buy something you pay the tax. To evade it both you and the store owner have to break the law.

 

FairTax is to be levied on all goods and services. So someone who provides a service like, I don't know... dj-ing, and doesn't currently report it as income, would most likely not charge FairTax either, so there would still be that evasion going on.

 

As far as purchasing things; FairTax supporters argue that all taxes are currently built into the things we buy now, only they're "hidden". That's where this whole idea that prices wouldn't really change that much under FairTax comes in - that once you remove all the "hidden taxes" and replace them with the FairTax, that it's close to a zero sum as far as price. If you buy that line of reasoning, then anyone who buys something now is "pay(ing) the tax".

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Nothing is gonna catch everything. But in your scenario, the scumbag DJ may not charge the Fairtax, but he will take the money from the gig and buy hair highlighter and mebbe a new toothbrush for when he cumswaps, and he will be paying the tax then.

 

Under the current system he evades taxes altogether.

[pimptastic69 0]

I thought the FairTax was only on NEW items. (i.e. a used car or house has no sales tax, however a new car or a newly built house does). Is that no longer the case?

[drobeski 3,061]

Nothing is gonna catch everything. But in your scenario, the scumbag DJ may not charge the Fairtax, but he will take the money from the gig and buy hair highlighter and mebbe a new toothbrush for when he cumswaps, and he will be paying the tax then.

 

Under the current system he evades taxes altogether.

 

[DankNuggs 305]

I support a VAT, I support tariffs on cheap imports...I support isolationism as it is needed to support our interests...

[Blitzen 0]

FairTax is to be levied on all goods and services. So someone who provides a service like, I don't know... dj-ing, and doesn't currently report it as income, would most likely not charge FairTax either, so there would still be that evasion going on.

 

As far as purchasing things; FairTax supporters argue that all taxes are currently built into the things we buy now, only they're "hidden". That's where this whole idea that prices wouldn't really change that much under FairTax comes in - that once you remove all the "hidden taxes" and replace them with the FairTax, that it's close to a zero sum as far as price. If you buy that line of reasoning, then anyone who buys something now is "pay(ing) the tax".

 

Ah yes.....when they were selling the Goods and Services Tax up here, they gave us that same argument that it would replace taxes that were hidden and that the overall prices would not change, even with the GST included. Well that was 100% bullshiot. Trust me, once the fairtax is implemented, they'll come up with a whole bunch of reasons why prices won't be going down and then they'll top it off with the fairtax, so you'll end up paying more. Do not buy this crap they are spewing. Once it is enacted, they will tell you that even if you're not seeing an immediate drop in prices once hidden taxes are removed, over decades, you'll be paying less than with the hidden taxes and of course, no one will be able to prove this conclusively. Shocker: you'll end up paying more immediately.

[Bishop82 61]

Just let me know what time the revolution is.

 

:popcorn:

[Recliner Pilot 61]

FairTax is to be levied on all goods and services. So someone who provides a service like, I don't know... dj-ing, and doesn't currently report it as income, would most likely not charge FairTax either, so there would still be that evasion going on.

 

As far as purchasing things; FairTax supporters argue that all taxes are currently built into the things we buy now, only they're "hidden". That's where this whole idea that prices wouldn't really change that much under FairTax comes in - that once you remove all the "hidden taxes" and replace them with the FairTax, that it's close to a zero sum as far as price. If you buy that line of reasoning, then anyone who buys something now is "pay(ing) the tax".

 

 

Right now you are paying those hidden taxes + income taxes.

[NewbieJr 541]

Nothing is gonna catch everything. But in your scenario, the scumbag DJ may not charge the Fairtax, but he will take the money from the gig and buy hair highlighter and mebbe a new toothbrush for when he cumswaps, and he will be paying the tax then.

 

Under the current system he evades taxes altogether.

Lol. Ok, I'll give you that one.

[Phurfur 70]

Why do people think they are entitled to the wealth other people have accumulated?

[MDC 7,133]

I support a VAT, I support tariffs on cheap imports...I support isolationism as it is needed to support our interests...

 

It must be a chilly day in hell, because we finally agree on something.

[NewbieJr 541]

Why do people think they are entitled to the wealth other people have accumulated?

So you obviously side with the owners in the NFL talks, correct? And even if the owners decide to set a salary cap 10 million per team per year, it'd be cool with you, right? If teh players don't like it, they can become owners. It's real simple.

[DankNuggs 305]

Why do people think they are entitled to the wealth other people have accumulated?

Policians make people believe they are entitled to a certain standard of living that is a natural right of man... The whole american dream schtick... No different than student council president offering free cookies during recess...

[nikki2200 4]

I support a VAT, I support tariffs on cheap imports...I support isolationism as it is needed to support our interests...

 

 

I support this post.

[DankNuggs 305]

So you obviously side with the owners in the NFL talks, correct? And even if the owners decide to set a salary cap 10 million per team per year, it'd be cool with you, right? If teh players don't like it, they can become owners. It's real simple.

They can play in the CFL, AFL, they can join Ochocinco playing in the MLS... they can get jobs in other industries..

[parrot 789]

Nothing is gonna catch everything. But in your scenario, the scumbag DJ may not charge the Fairtax, but he will take the money from the gig and buy hair highlighter and mebbe a new toothbrush for when he cumswaps, and he will be paying the tax then.

 

Under the current system he evades taxes altogether.

 

Except for all the "hidden taxes" which - if FairTax supporters are to be believed - add up to the FairTax in essence.

 

Fairtaxers like to play both sides of this net; they'll tell you that part of the beauty of FairTax is that it will hit our nefarious DJ when he goes to buy his highlighter. But then they'll later tell you that the price of his highlighter won't really change much under FairTax since he's currently paying so many "hidden" or "embedded" taxes now. Well you can't really have it both ways. If they want to say we'll be hitting these people in ways we aren't now, then they need to concede that retail prices will increase substantially more than they're letting on.

 

You're right that no system is perfect, but FairTaxers tend to greatly overstate both the simplicity of enforcing the system (sevices being the big gremlin) and how effective it would be at curbing evasion, IMO.

[MDC 7,133]

Policians make people believe they are entitled to a certain standard of living that is a natural right of man... The whole american dream schtick... No different than student council president offering free cookies during recess...

 

I think a hardworking middle class guy should be able to afford a modest house in a decent neighborhood, and I think middle class families in the US shouldn't be a serious illness or layoff away from losing their lifelong investments and declaring bankruptcy. I like that America enjoys a high standard of living and it worries me to see this country headed toward an India type caste system.

 

I'm going to be fine. My wife and I both make a decent salary and easily cover our bills, we have no debt other than a low mortgage and I've got my annual salary in the bank. I'm not saying this because I'm struggling. It concerns me that the middle class is shrinking and poverty is going up.

 

[NewbieJr 541]

Policians make people believe they are entitled to a certain standard of living that is a natural right of man... The whole american dream schtick... No different than student council president offering free cookies during recess...

You don't think that a hard working couple should be able to own a house and a couple cars and feed their families? Because that's where this class separation has led us. Less and less people can afford that. Notice I said 'hard working'. Because you righties love to categorize anyone with a liberal opinion as being lazy and expecting handouts.

 

When your finaincial system starts to become such that only a small percentage of people can afford top live a decent life, the system will change. Notice I didn't say 'should' change. It WILL change. One way or another.

[DankNuggs 305]

It must be a chilly day in hell, because we finally agree on something.

You'll find i have less use for foreign interests than even liberal progressive interests... Liberal progressives are still teammates in America, even though they are spineless, crybaby, wimps who would fold like a cheap tent if push came to shove...

[DankNuggs 305]

You don't think that a hard working couple should be able to own a house and a couple cars and feed their families? Because that's where this class separation has led us. Less and less people can afford that. Notice I said 'hard working'. Because you righties love to categorize anyone with a liberal opinion as being lazy and expecting handouts.

 

When your finaincial system starts to become such that only a small percentage of people can afford top live a decent life, the system will change. Notice I didn't say 'should' change. It WILL change. One way or another.

Pool and a pond...Pond be good for you...

 

 

I believe people should be able to live decent lives and provide for their families. I don't believe the difference in life is whether you pay a mortgage check for 30 years or a rent check... Whether you own a house or a condo.. whether you live in the city or the suburbs... pretty much the entire country has cable, internet, flat screen tvs... Forget access to clean water and food/subsistance... people are beyond that...

 

Expectations for classes has WILDLY changed over the last 30 years or so... People are up in arms that that trend isn't continuing its extrapolation through this downturn...

[pimptastic69 0]

Except for all the "hidden taxes" which - if FairTax supporters are to be believed - add up to the FairTax in essence.

 

Fairtaxers like to play both sides of this net; they'll tell you that part of the beauty of FairTax is that it will hit our nefarious DJ when he goes to buy his highlighter. But then they'll later tell you that the price of his highlighter won't really change much under FairTax since he's currently paying so many "hidden" or "embedded" taxes now. Well you can't really have it both ways. If they want to say we'll be hitting these people in ways we aren't now, then they need to concede that retail prices will increase substantially more than they're letting on.

 

You're right that no system is perfect, but FairTaxers tend to greatly overstate both the simplicity of enforcing the system (sevices being the big gremlin) and how effective it would be at curbing evasion, IMO.

 

When you consider that Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, Meijer are all operating on 2 or 3 percent margins, one of them will "break" and lower the price in order to drive more revenue. And then the rest will follow. This is the beauty of competition.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I think a hardworking middle class guy should be able to afford a modest house in a decent neighborhood, and I think middle class families in the US shouldn't be a serious illness or layoff away from losing their lifelong investments and declaring bankruptcy. I like that America enjoys a high standard of living and it worries me to see this country headed toward an India type caste system.

 

I'm going to be fine. My wife and I both make a decent salary and easily cover our bills, we have no debt other than a low mortgage and I've got my annual salary in the bank. I'm not saying this because I'm struggling. It concerns me that the middle class is shrinking and poverty is going up.

 

 

so when someone gets a serious illness who should pay for it?

 

If someone gets laid off and doesn't want to use their savings to pay their bills, who should pay their bills?

[drobeski 3,061]

You don't think that a hard working couple should be able to own a house and a couple cars and feed their families? Because that's where this class separation has led us. Less and less people can afford that. Notice I said 'hard working'. Because you righties love to categorize anyone with a liberal opinion as being lazy and expecting handouts.

 

When your finaincial system starts to become such that only a small percentage of people can afford top live a decent life, the system will change. Notice I didn't say 'should' change. It WILL change. One way or another.

Who says they cant .....didnt you have all that stuff when you were married ? I did....thats then myth....that there is no middle class....

[Brad GLuckman 519]

I agree with Newbie that it's wrong that CEO's are getting 27% raises while the worker bee is getting 2%.

 

But I would much rather have that than have that money retristributed by the government. What happens when that's not enough to give everyone what they think they deserve?

 

How long does it take until I am perceived to make too much money?

[MDC 7,133]

so when someone gets a serious illness who should pay for it?

 

If someone gets laid off and doesn't want to use their savings to pay their bills, who should pay their bills?

 

People should be responsible for their own healthcare and well-being. I'm just pointing out that the trend is toward a shrinking middle class full of families that are hanging on to their modest standard of living by a thread, through no fault of their own. The standard of living for the US middle class in general is in steep decline.

[NewbieJr 541]

Who says they cant .....didnt you have all that stuff when you were married ? I did....thats then myth....that there is no middle class....

We are still fortunate enough to make a decent living. I bet there are less people in this country in our position today then there were three years ago. Or ten years ago.

 

My statement said "when" the percentage of those who can't afford a place to live ghets big enough.....I didn't say today. But I do believe in trends, and if the ratio of what executives get in increses stays at 27% and the workers at 2% for a good length of time, then we will hit that scenerio.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

I agree with Newbie that it's wrong that CEO's are getting 27% raises while the worker bee is getting 2%.

 

But I would much rather have that than have that money retristributed by the government. What happens when that's not enough to give everyone what they think they deserve?

 

How long does it take until I am perceived to make too much money?

 

There must be some middle road. I can't imagine that our only options are to let the richest of the rich squeeze the life out of the middle class or go towards a completely communist system where the government distributes wealth. There has got to be something in between.

[NewbieJr 541]

There must be some middle road. I can't imagine that our only options are to let the richest of the rich squeeze the life out of the middle class or go towards a completely communist system where the government distributes wealth. There has got to be something in between.

Our system works beautifully on paper. What it didn't figure in, and can never eliminate, is the greed and selfishness at the top, and the laziness and entitlement issues at the bottom.

[Phurfur 70]

So you obviously side with the owners in the NFL talks, correct? And even if the owners decide to set a salary cap 10 million per team per year, it'd be cool with you, right? If teh players don't like it, they can become owners. It's real simple.

NewbieJr, I am beginning to feel sorry for you.

 

I was "Replying to Tax the Super Rich now or face a revolution". It has nothing to do with the NFL lockout but I don't think I have the right to take the owner’s or the player’s wealth.

 

You didn't answer my question, why do you feel entitled to take the wealth accumulated by the rich?

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

Our system works beautifully on paper. What it didn't figure in, and can never eliminate, is the greed and selfishness at the top, and the laziness and entitlement issues at the bottom.

 

Our system works beautifully in practice. I am on course to be middle class, and I am happy with the middle class standard of living.

I think that the lower-middle class in 50 years will be better off than the upper middle class is currently. Our country is going in the right direction for the long term. Too many people think the country is going to hell, just because the media only reports on "sky is falling" stories.

[Blitzen 0]

Our system works beautifully in practice. I am on course to be middle class, and I am happy with the middle class standard of living.

I think that the lower-middle class in 50 years will be better off than the upper middle class is currently. Our country is going in the right direction for the long term. Too many people think the country is going to hell, just because the media only reports on "sky is falling" stories.

 

Take it back mister.....your country is going to hell in a leaky handbasket. And you're going to like it!

[Phurfur 70]

You don't think that a hard working couple should be able to own a house and a couple cars and feed their families? Because that's where this class separation has led us. Less and less people can afford that. Notice I said 'hard working'. Because you righties love to categorize anyone with a liberal opinion as being lazy and expecting handouts.

 

When your finaincial system starts to become such that only a small percentage of people can afford top live a decent life, the system will change. Notice I didn't say 'should' change. It WILL change. One way or another.

 

 

We are in the economic trouble we are in today because our government wanted every American to own their own home. Go back to 1993 (?I believe it was called the Neighborhood Reclamation Act?) and follow it through to 2008 and you will see how it happened. You aren't even smart enough to learn from our past mistakes.

 

BTW: Every hard working American I know can or does own their own home. Some own 2 or 3. I also know many lazy people that own their own home so I don't know where you are coming from.

[Phurfur 70]

Our system works beautifully in practice. I am on course to be middle class, and I am happy with the middle class standard of living.

I think that the lower-middle class in 50 years will be better off than the upper middle class is currently. Our country is going in the right direction for the long term. Too many people think the country is going to hell, just because the media only reports on "sky is falling" stories.

 

Nice post, by today's standards I grew up in poverty. We never thought of ourselves as poor even though we didn't have much of anything. The poor today are the middle class of the 50s.

[Phurfur 70]

There must be some middle road. I can't imagine that our only options are to let the richest of the rich squeeze the life out of the middle class or go towards a completely communist system where the government distributes wealth. There has got to be something in between.

 

Indoctination complete!

 

How are the rich squeezing the life out of the middle class? Just because the middle class is not advancing as fast as the rich it doesn't mean they are oppressed. Why doesn't anyone mention the people that have gone from lower and middle class to upper class. There are a lot of them and if you haven't made it, it is because you aren't good enough.

 

We are considered a rich county not because of how our rich live but because of how our poor live. Wake up and smell the roses, travel abroad to witness real poverty and don't believe everything the media and our government tells you.

[RLLD 4,143]

We are in the economic trouble we are in today because our government wanted every American to own their own home. Go back to 1993 (?I believe it was called the Neighborhood Reclamation Act?) and follow it through to 2008 and you will see how it happened. You aren't even smart enough to learn from our past mistakes.

 

BTW: Every hard working American I know can or does own their own home. Some own 2 or 3. I also know many lazy people that own their own home so I don't know where you are coming from.

 

There is truth to this. But also the Community Reinvestment Act of 1993, and as important, the Bankruptcy Act of 2005. Government has been actively involved in the creation of the kind of situational markets that the cannibalistic greed of the banking cartel is only too ready to exploit.

[Phurfur 70]

There is truth to this. But also the Community Reinvestment Act of 1993, and as important, the Bankruptcy Act of 2005. Government has been actively involved in the creation of the kind of situational markets that the cannibalistic greed of the banking cartel is only too ready to exploit.

 

Correct

[jerryskids 6,568]

Our system works beautifully in practice. I am on course to be middle class, and I am happy with the middle class standard of living.

I think that the lower-middle class in 50 years will be better off than the upper middle class is currently. Our country is going in the right direction for the long term. Too many people think the country is going to hell, just because the media only reports on "sky is falling" stories.

 

Good post. The problem is that it is human nature to be jealous because while you may have more, somebody else has MORE more.