Give me Rose over anyone!

[The Moz 69]

Not only is he unstopable even with a double team getting inside - he is total clutch as well. Hitting shots not seen in Chicago since Jordan! Take Lebron and Durrant I will take DRo -- now being called Death row in chicago.

[Bishop82 61]

[Reality 2,710]

He's good but, Chicago looks like a paper champ to me. Indy is not a good team.

[GettnHuge 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2VLEGtRuz4

[The Moz 69]

He's good but, Chicago looks like a paper champ to me. Indy is not a good team.

 

 

indy was hitting everything and tyhe Bulls had a bad game. last 3 minutes Rose --"rose" above

[Yer mom 2]

He did get hot at the end of the game, but it sure helped that Indy went ice cold and the fact that theyre Indy. Derrick went on like a 0-100 stretch in the third, lets not go nuts.

 

Durant and Lebron huh, I hear that Bryant guy can close a game or two

[CantTouchThis 23]

Love his game. Unlike Bron, the kid has a killer instinct, and is really developing the rest of his game.

 

His perimeter game still needs work, but he is only 22 and he has already made huge strides with that. It's close between him and Durant of under 25s I would want to start a team, but Rose would probably win since guards like him are hard to find.

[TAS 2]

Dude runs in to players and gets more calls then anyone. That has got to be addressed by the refs at some point. Ridiculous.

[Bishop82 61]

Dude runs in to players and gets more calls then anyone. That has got to be addressed by the refs at some point. Ridiculous.

 

 

Free throw attempts this season

[ens189 1]

Dude runs in to players and gets more calls then anyone. That has got to be addressed by the refs at some point. Ridiculous.

 

This!

 

Ridiculous that these nancies can build a career out of being slightly quicker than someone else inside of 10 feet so someones pinky can graze their palm and they instantly get a foul call. A sport shouldn't be built on how easy it easy to draw a foul.

[Mungwater 588]

This!

Ridiculous that these nancies can build a career out of being slightly quicker than someone else inside of 10 feet so someones pinky can graze their palm and they instantly get a foul call. A sport shouldn't be built on how easy it easy to draw a foul.

 

Dwayne wade has a nice career built on that

[ens189 1]

Dwayne wade has a nice career built on that

 

Flop on the ground 8 times, stand up 9!

[MedStudent 56]

Love his game. Unlike Bron, the kid has a killer instinct, and is really developing the rest of his game.

 

His perimeter game still needs work, but he is only 22 and he has already made huge strides with that. It's close between him and Durant of under 25s I would want to start a team, but Rose would probably win since guards like him are hard to find.

I think it's tougher to find a guy with Durant's height and skills than a great point guard.

[WhiteWonder 2,201]

I think i'll take durant over anyone. but rose is great too.

[CantTouchThis 23]

I think it's tougher to find a guy with Durant's height and skills than a great point guard.

 

True, but wing players that can score are a dime a dozen. It's becoming a PG league, and Rose's size, speed, and creativity is something that is rare...almost unique really.

 

I am not at all saying that Durant is just another wing player, he is special and does have skills that people his size very rarely have. However, he is still a wing player who pretty much does nothing but score.

 

It's really close between Rose and Durant, but I will give the slight edge to Rose because I think once Kobe's Lakers diminish, you will not see a team without a top knotch PG winning rings(maybe with the exception of the Heat, because Wade and Bron both basically share the PG duties). Rose can do things no other PG can do. He isn't a pure PG by any means, but his size and speed puts him at such a huge advantage over any PG in the game. He is like what Baron Davis should/could have been if he wasn't such a vagina.

[WhiteWonder 2,201]

True, but wing players that can score are a dime a dozen. It's becoming a PG league, and Rose's size, speed, and creativity is something that is rare...almost unique really.

 

I am not at all saying that Durant is just another wing player, he is special and does have skills that people his size very rarely have. However, he is still a wing player who pretty much does nothing but score.

 

It's really close between Rose and Durant, but I will give the slight edge to Rose because I think once Kobe's Lakers diminish, you will not see a team without a top knotch PG winning rings(maybe with the exception of the Heat, because Wade and Bron both basically share the PG duties). Rose can do things no other PG can do. He isn't a pure PG by any means, but his size and speed puts him at such a huge advantage over any PG in the game. He is like what Baron Davis should/could have been if he wasn't such a vagina.

 

D. Rose - 6'3 190 25ppg 7.7apg

D.Williams - 6'3 209 20ppg 10.3apg

 

similar size, Rose is faster and a better scorer but D-Will is quick in his own right and a better passer. And Williams played for 2 marginal teams this season.

 

so i wouldn't really say he has a huge advantage over any PG in the league.

[Me_2006 14]

He's a beast, no doubt, but you aren't gonna win a ring with your PG being your best player. Everyone gets all excited about one of the new guys every year, but LeBron James is still the best basketball player on the planet. He's DRose with a better jumper in a 6'8 250 pound body.

 

I'd also take Dwight Howard over everyone besides LeBron if I'm building a team.

 

 

But in the playoffs, when it all comes down to it, Kobe Bean Bryant is the guy you take and he's why the Lakers will 3peat this season.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

You're right. Pete was and is the best evah. Fock the Hall

[remote controller 136]

I'll take Durrant.

[swirvenirvin 25]

NBA? Who gives a fock

[KSB2424 3,086]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Rose is a great NBA player. He can get to any point on the floor he wants with his ball handling and atheleticism. He's quick enough to beat small defenders and strong enough to fight through the bigger ones. Plus the kid has hops. However he still struggles with his outside jumper. Especially the three. Yes, I know he's leaps and bounds better now than he has been in years past but he still has a long ways to go.

 

Just look at Saturday's stat line. He was what? 0-9 from 3 or something like that.

 

If he continues to work on that aspect of his game he may end up being the best playing in the game. However he's not quite there yet. Top 5 in the league right now though (for my money). That's for certain.

[Stewburtx8 67]

A healthy CP3 is still the best all around point guard on the planet in my opinion right now.

[CantTouchThis 23]

D. Rose - 6'3 190 25ppg 7.7apg

D.Williams - 6'3 209 20ppg 10.3apg

 

similar size, Rose is faster and a better scorer but D-Will is quick in his own right and a better passer. And Williams played for 2 marginal teams this season.

 

so i wouldn't really say he has a huge advantage over any PG in the league.

 

I think D-Will is the best pure PG in the game. He is also a better perimeter player than Rose. However, Rose is faster and considerably more athletic than him. PGs who can match his size definitely can't match his quickness(I really don't think anyone can). However, I think Rose's biggest asset is he is CLUTCH and has that killer instinct only a few players truly have.

 

BTW, Durant is my favorite player behind Kobe. You also have to remember that KD has Westbrook, who is grossly underrated and is one of the best PGs in the game.

[JT 137]

A healthy Deron Williams is still the best all around point guard on the planet in my opinion right now.

 

Fixed

[The Moz 69]

Did Dwill carry his team like Rose has --- no

 

Durant has a great supporting vast and is GREAT but has he carried his team like Rose has -- no

 

DRoe is 22 is almost as clutch as Kobe NOW.

 

If I am a GM Rose is my #1 ovrall becasue he isn't just a PG he can be when he needs to be but he is more an all around player

[JT 137]

Did Dwill carry his team like Rose has --- no

 

Durant has a great supporting vast and is GREAT but has he carried his team like Rose has -- no

 

DRoe is 22 is almost as clutch as Kobe NOW.

 

If I am a GM Rose is my #1 ovrall becasue he isn't just a PG he can be when he needs to be but he is more an all around player

 

This season-no, but time was split between teams. Multiple times in the past few seasons? yep.

 

Durant has a great supporting cast? There's Westbrook, and.... OK, there's Westbrook. The rest is pretty pedestrian, amnd certainly no better than Boozer, Noah, Deng, etc. Which is exactly why Durant has had to carry them.

 

"Almost as clutch" is an interesting stat. Have to look that up.

 

If you're a GM with 1st pick, and you go with anyone other than James or Howard...well, you won't be a GM for long. Long enough for lots of jokes and laughing at your expense, but not long.

 

Rose is a terriffic young talent, but he's not what you think he is yet.

[TAS 2]

Did Dwill carry his team like Rose has --- no

 

Durant has a great supporting vast and is GREAT but has he carried his team like Rose has -- no

 

DRoe is 22 is almost as clutch as Kobe NOW.

 

If I am a GM Rose is my #1 ovrall becasue he isn't just a PG he can be when he needs to be but he is more an all around player

 

Hold on now...give the kid some time. These comparisons are not quite fair yet.

 

-there is no greater kobe hater then me and even I see this comparison as not worthy quite yet-

[remote controller 136]

 

 

Durant has a great supporting cast? There's Westbrook, and.... OK, there's Westbrook.

 

 

I'll take Durrant.

[The Moz 69]

Rose just has "it" MJ had it .... Kobe had /has it and now Rose.

 

 

James is the best athlete but no heart.

[Me_2006 14]

Rose just has "it" MJ had it .... Kobe had /has it and now Rose.

 

 

James is the best athlete but no heart.

By 22 LeBron had done more with less than Rose has. Ask the Pistons if LeBron is clutch. Say what you want about his attitude, The Decision, whatever, but he's the best on the planet.

[Stewburtx8 67]

Fixed

 

 

Never understood this, and I like Deron Williams a lot. But by almost any statistical measure I can find, CP3 has been better than Deron Williams in ALL 6 seasons they've been in the league. Higher PER, higher Win Shares, higher Value Added, pure point rating, etc.

[The Moz 69]

again give me Rose. --- wow!! end of game everyone knows Rose is going to shoot it -- takes on 5 guys gets to rim and game over!

 

Rose is the new KKobe!

[The Moz 69]

By 22 LeBron had done more with less than Rose has. Ask the Pistons if LeBron is clutch. Say what you want about his attitude, The Decision, whatever, but he's the best on the planet.

 

 

when Lebron wins something by being clutch get back to me.

 

right now Kobe is the clutch king but Rose is coming on strong.

[Me_2006 14]

when Lebron wins something by being clutch get back to me.

 

right now Kobe is the clutch king but Rose is coming on strong.

You're using two arguments and switching them when appropriate for your side.

 

 

You said Rose was the best in the league. I said LeBron is the best player in the league. He's more talented, bigger, stronger, does all the same things Rose can do, only with a better physical package.

 

You said Rose was clutch, therefore having the edge over LeBron. I said LeBron had done more than Rose to show he is 'clutch.' Has nothing to do with Kobe. Yes, Kobe is the most clutch player in the league. He's an assassin. I'm a Lakers fan. I know these things. But the debate is LeBron over Rose. LeBron being less clutch than Kobe doesn't have anything to do with that, because he's still more clutch than Rose.

 

I'm drunk and will read that again in the morning to make sure it makes sense. Im pretty sure it does though.

[Stewburtx8 67]

 

Yes, Kobe is the most clutch player in the league. He's an assassin. I'm a Lakers fan. I know these things.

 

I absolutely agree with your Lebron over D.Rose argument. But I think your Lakers fandom clouds things a little when it comes to Kobe. Let me preface this by saying I am not a Kobe Bryant fan, but I do concede he is probably one of the 10 greatest players ever at this point. And the thing is, if you ask every GM in the league who they would want to take the last shot in a close game, I bet a very strong majority of them would say Kobe Bryant. But the truth is, Kobe really isn't THAT clutch. Or at least not any more than anyone else. Everyone remembers him making plenty of game winning shots, but that's because of the sheer volume of them that he has taken, not because he makes a high percentage of them. But here it is:

 

With his team trailing by one or two points or tied in the final 24 seconds of a game, Kobe Bryant has taken 115 shots in his career. He has made 36 of them. That's 31.3%. Lebron James has made 23 of 69 in the same situations (33.3%). Melo has made 21 of 44 (47.7%). CP3 has made 14 of 31 (45.2%). Dirk has made 25 of 65 (38.5%). You get the point. Kobe also make crunch time defense very easy for opponents. They can double and triple team him and still know that he will shoot it almost every time. Over the last 5 years, Kobe has taken 56 "clutch" shots and has ONE assist in those same situations.

 

I guess my whole point of this is that the term "clutch" is used far too often without any context or meaning in sports. What defines clutch? Kobe has made hundreds of very important shots in his career, but in game winning/game tying shot situations, he doesn't make a higher percentage than any other good player would. In most cases, he has a lower percentage.

[cyclone24 1,820]

I absolutely agree with your Lebron over D.Rose argument. But I think your Lakers fandom clouds things a little when it comes to Kobe. Let me preface this by saying I am not a Kobe Bryant fan, but I do concede he is probably one of the 10 greatest players ever at this point. And the thing is, if you ask every GM in the league who they would want to take the last shot in a close game, I bet a very strong majority of them would say Kobe Bryant. But the truth is, Kobe really isn't THAT clutch. Or at least not any more than anyone else. Everyone remembers him making plenty of game winning shots, but that's because of the sheer volume of them that he has taken, not because he makes a high percentage of them. But here it is:

 

With his team trailing by one or two points or tied in the final 24 seconds of a game, Kobe Bryant has taken 115 shots in his career. He has made 36 of them. That's 31.3%. Lebron James has made 23 of 69 in the same situations (33.3%). Melo has made 21 of 44 (47.7%). CP3 has made 14 of 31 (45.2%). Dirk has made 25 of 65 (38.5%). You get the point. Kobe also make crunch time defense very easy for opponents. They can double and triple team him and still know that he will shoot it almost every time. Over the last 5 years, Kobe has taken 56 "clutch" shots and has ONE assist in those same situations.

 

I guess my whole point of this is that the term "clutch" is used far too often without any context or meaning in sports. What defines clutch? Kobe has made hundreds of very important shots in his career, but in game winning/game tying shot situations, he doesn't make a higher percentage than any other good player would. In most cases, he has a lower percentage.

 

 

If you read the book Scorecasting.....you'll find the "clutch" players are actually less clutch than someone else who gets the shot.

 

Im in the Rose camp and would prefer him over LBJ for a few reasons. As gifted as LBj is....he is not an impossible guard in half court sets. Running yes...hes impossible. But not in half court sets and you see this alot at the end of games. Also....LBJ..unlike Rose...really doesnt make anybody around him any better. Ok passer but i would guess 75% of the time...he just dribbles around and shoots.

 

Rose...as ive said in other posts is the best athlete ive ever seen with a basketball in terms of quickness, agility and his ability to actually finish shots in traffic. He makes players better and can beat you in the half court and the fast break

 

having said that....id still rather have the mamba closing out games and on my team

[Stewburtx8 67]

If you read the book Scorecasting.....you'll find the "clutch" players are actually less clutch than someone else who gets the shot.

 

Im in the Rose camp and would prefer him over LBJ for a few reasons. As gifted as LBj is....he is not an impossible guard in half court sets. Running yes...hes impossible. But not in half court sets and you see this alot at the end of games. Also....LBJ..unlike Rose...really doesnt make anybody around him any better. Ok passer but i would guess 75% of the time...he just dribbles around and shoots.

 

Rose...as ive said in other posts is the best athlete ive ever seen with a basketball in terms of quickness, agility and his ability to actually finish shots in traffic. He makes players better and can beat you in the half court and the fast break

 

having said that....id still rather have the mamba closing out games and on my team

 

 

Never read the book, but that sounds completely believable. More often than not the "clutch" player will force a shot, when they probably could find a teammate for a much easier wide open shot.

 

I'll agree to disagree. Derrick Rose is a tremendous player, but Lebron James is the best player in basketball in my opinion. He led the league in both PER and win shares. He absolutely makes his teammates better. He's a more efficient scorer than Rose. And while Rose is a good defensive player, Lebron James is arguably even better. Lebron scores more while shooting better, has almost as many assists with a lower usage rate, and rebounds the ball much better.

[cyclone24 1,820]

Never read the book, but that sounds completely believable. More often than not the "clutch" player will force a shot, when they probably could find a teammate for a much easier wide open shot.

 

I'll agree to disagree. Derrick Rose is a tremendous player, but Lebron James is the best player in basketball in my opinion. He led the league in both PER and win shares. He absolutely makes his teammates better. He's a more efficient scorer than Rose. And while Rose is a good defensive player, Lebron James is arguably even better. Lebron scores more while shooting better, has almost as many assists with a lower usage rate, and rebounds the ball much better.

 

 

I understand the argument......i just dont want a guy who monopolizes the ball as much as he does. You basically win or lose based off of one guys performance with his type of play. Lebrons way or no way. But yes...LBJ is a great player....i just dont see him as much of a leader or clutch player.

[Stewburtx8 67]

I understand the argument......i just dont want a guy who monopolizes the ball as much as he does. You basically win or lose based off of one guys performance with his type of play. Lebrons way or no way. But yes...LBJ is a great player....i just dont see him as much of a leader or clutch player.

 

 

Derrick Rose actually monopolizes the ball a little more than Lebron does. Rose had a higher usage rate than Lebron did this season for what it's worth. I'm not trying to knock Rose at all. As I said, he's a tremendous player. I just think Lebron is the best player in the game, which certainly can be argued.

[JT 137]

I understand the argument......i just dont want a guy who monopolizes the ball as much as he does. You basically win or lose based off of one guys performance with his type of play. Lebrons way or no way. But yes...LBJ is a great player....i just dont see him as much of a leader or clutch player.

 

So far in the post season, Rose is averaging 6 assists to James' 5.8. James has committed 4 turnovers (5.75 A/TO) to Rose's 17 (1.41)

 

James is shooting .485 from the floor to Rose's .352, which is 58th among the 61 players with enough shots to qualify.

 

James is also in the top 10 in rebounding.

 

I'm not in love with LeBron's game. I believe he spends too much time with the ball, wasting the tremendous size and strength advantage he has over the vast majority of players in the league.

 

But Indiana has exposed Rose greatest weakness by making him a jump shooter. Until he can shoot better than 17% from 3 (next to last of all qualified playoff performers)against the likes of 4'11" Darren Collison (who, btw, is shooting 60% from 3), the hosannas being bestowed on him are a bit over the top.