Shaq Retiring?

[hdaddy 17]

Includes video from him

[BunnysBastatrds 1,933]

Would you rank him in the top 5 centers to ever play the game?

[Strike 4,009]

I figured this was a foregone conclusion considering how ineffective he was this year. Who would want him?

[Strike 4,009]

Would you rank him in the top 5 centers to ever play the game?

 

He might squeak in at five. Wilt, Russell, Olajuwon, and Kareem are ahead of him for sure.

[DankNuggs 305]

He might squeak in at five. Wilt, Russell, Olajuwon, and Kareem are ahead of him for sure.

Moses Malone?

[hdaddy 17]

Would you rank him in the top 5 centers to ever play the game?

 

I would without question.

[Strike 4,009]

Moses Malone?

 

Probably. But I'm not a Shaq fan. I'm sure there are some people that think he's the best evah.

[cyclone24 1,814]

I would without question.

 

 

i think i would too....ahead of Olajuwon..and i loved watching him as well.

 

Too many people remmeber shaq of the last 6 or 7 years....not the freak show he was the first 12. Too bad his prime wasnt now in the era of garbage centers....hed average 35 a game.

[Strike 4,009]

i think i would too....ahead of Olajuwon..and i loved watching him as well.

 

Too many people remmeber shaq of the last 6 or 7 years....not the freak show he was the first 12. Too bad his prime wasnt now in the era of garbage centers....hed average 35 a game.

 

His prime WAS in an era of garbage centers, and usually undersized ones. Not to mention that the refs allowed him to just run people over. He was not a skilled player. He was athletic for his size and huge. That's all.

[patweisers44 701]

Would you rank him in the top 5 centers to ever play the game?

I think he is in the conversation for sure. Although i never saw them play, Wilt and Bill Russell have to be "givens", then you have imo Kareem, Hakeem, Moses Malone, and Shaq. He's in the top six at least....

[KSB2424 3,085]

Wilt

Kareem

Russell

.

.

Shaq and Olajuwon are really close. I couldn't decide who to put 4 and who to put 5. Olajuwon is still underrated and could do it on both sides of the court. Yet for about a 8-9 year stretch, Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA.

 

Moses Malone prolly comes in 6th.

 

I'm assuming Timmy Duncan is considered a PF.

[posty 2,296]

George Mikan needs to be in the top 5...

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

His prime WAS in an era of garbage centers, and usually undersized ones. Not to mention that the refs allowed him to just run people over. He was not a skilled player. He was athletic for his size and huge. That's all.

 

Shaq always pissed me off. I mean, he could be a sure fire hall of famer based just off physical freakishness.... but come on you lazy cacsucker, learn to shoot a focking free throw. With your freakishly long arms, the ball is only like 2 feet from the focking basket, you make tens of millions and have nothing else to do, focking practice till you master it.

 

That hack a shaq sh!t teams used to do was brutal to watch.

[Voltaire 4,570]

That guy's been around forever. I remember talking about the monster center from LSU during my Army days in Germany. We didn't see many games, I presumed the hype was overrated. Certainly got that one wrong.

[posty 2,296]

Shaq always pissed me off. I mean, he could be a sure fire hall of famer based just off physical freakishness.... but come on you lazy cacsucker, learn to shoot a focking free throw. With your freakishly long arms, the ball is only like 2 feet from the focking basket, you make tens of millions and have nothing else to do, focking practice till you master it.

 

That hack a shaq sh!t teams used to do was brutal to watch.

 

He FT% is better than Chamberlain...

[KSB2424 3,085]

George Mikan needs to be in the top 5...

See this is the problem with all time lists. Maybe Mikan was the best ever? Hell I really don't know as it was waaayyy back in the day. The game was a different game. It's so subjective.

 

What I do know is that Shaq is up there somewhere and in the conversation as one of the great Centers. Where exactly he falls, well that depends who you ask.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

He FT% is better than Chamberlain...

 

Chaimberlain was before my time, but I guess the same applies to him. Spend a little more time focusing on putting the basketball in the hole, and less on putting your cack in the hole.

[hdaddy 17]

Three year old article discussing the debate

[cyclone24 1,814]

Chaimberlain was before my time, but I guess the same applies to him. Spend a little more time focusing on putting the basketball in the hole, and less on putting your cack in the hole.

 

 

The only arguement id have against shaq is the same one you would have to use against Wilt......at his time...he was just physically bigger than anyone else he played against.

 

So if you include Wilt....you have to include Shaq.

 

Wilt was just taller, Shaq was just bigger. neither could shoot a lick...but not sure you can have one and omit the other

[cbfalcon 824]

Wilt

Kareem

Russell

.

.

Shaq and Olajuwon are really close. I couldn't decide who to put 4 and who to put 5. Olajuwon is still underrated and could do it on both sides of the court. Yet for about a 8-9 year stretch, Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA.

 

Moses Malone prolly comes in 6th.

 

I'm assuming Timmy Duncan is considered a PF.

 

 

Agree completely. Both guys had peaks of about 12 years. Hakeem was more skilled and had zero holes in his game. Shaq less killed, but more dominant at his peak.

[Strike 4,009]

The problem I have with Shaq, and why I cannot in good conscience call him one of the top five centers of all time, is that he only played one end of the court. He could score, although I've already made clear that I think his method of scoring didn't have that much to do with actual Bball skill, but relative to his size, athleticism, and the other players we're comparing him against, he was pathetic on the defensive end. Not once in his career did he make the NBA all defense 1st team. Not once did he lead the league in rebounding. Etc...etc...Again, he was a force due to his size and athleticism, but he just wasn't that skilled or motivated to get better.

[Strike 4,009]

Agree completely. Both guys had peaks of about 12 years. Hakeem was more skilled and had zero holes in his game. Shaq less killed, but more dominant at his peak.

 

Hakeem is about the only guy who won a championship without another current all star caliber player on his team.

[cbfalcon 824]

Hakeem is about the only guy who won a championship without another current all star caliber player on his team.

 

That'll change in about 2 weeks.

[Rusty Syringes 478]

Hakeem is ahead of Shaq simply based on the Rockets sweep of the Magic in the 1995 NBA finals.

[KSB2424 3,085]

The problem I have with Shaq, and why I cannot in good conscience call him one of the top five centers of all time, is that he only played one end of the court. He could score, although I've already made clear that I think his method of scoring didn't have that much to do with actual Bball skill, but relative to his size, athleticism, and the other players we're comparing him against, he was pathetic on the defensive end. Not once in his career did he make the NBA all defense 1st team. Not once did he lead the league in rebounding. Etc...etc...Again, he was a force due to his size and athleticism, but he just wasn't that skilled or motivated to get better.

I think you're a bitter Laker fan who sided with Kobe after the divorce; so now you see every flaw Shaq ever had and use hyperbole to spin it to others. It's sort of like the ex-husband that trashes his ex-wife at every chance he gets. "That stupid, ugly, whoore!@#!" "She didn't cook, clean, or give good head!@#!"

 

Also I'm sorta kidding...a little.

 

More to your post. Who cares if the scoring was extremely skilled or not. The object is to put the ball in the hoop, and Shaq was damn good at it for a bunch of years. This isn't Dancing with the Stars where you get style points for being elegant and pretty.

 

Also, while not a dominant defender, Shaq was a pretty big force down low. You couldn't really back him down and his precense alone kept guards and wings out of the lane. He was a good defender (not great). I think you are degrading that part a tad bit much. Shaq played in an era of Defensive specialist centers like Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace. They got most of all the First Team all Defense awards. I do think Shaquille did garner at least one (mabye a couple) second team all defenses. He wasn't a liablity on that end whatsover.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

That'll change in about 2 weeks.

 

sig bet on that?

[KSB2424 3,085]

Hakeem is ahead of Shaq simply based on the Rockets sweep of the Magic in the 1995 NBA finals.

Hakeem was in his prime and Shaq was like 22 years old.

[cbfalcon 824]

sig bet on that?

 

no.

 

[Strike 4,009]

I think you're a bitter Laker fan who sided with Kobe after the divorce; so now you see every flaw Shaq ever had and use hyperbole to spin it to others. It's sort of like the ex-husband that trashes his ex-wife at every chance he gets. "That stupid, ugly, whoore!@#!" "She didn't cook, clean, or give good head!@#!"

 

Also I sorta kidding...a little.

 

More to your post. Who cares if the scoring was extremely skilled or not. The object is to put the ball in the hoop, and Shaq was damn good at it for a bunch of years. This is Dancing with the Stars where you get points for being elegant and pretty.

 

Also, while not a dominant defender, Shaq was a pretty big force down low. You couldn't really back him down and his precense alone kept guards and wings out of the lane. He was a good defender (not great). I think you are degrading that part a tad bit much. Shaq played in an era of Defensive specialist centers like Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace. They got most of all the First Team all Defense awards. I do think Shaquille did garner at least one (mabye a couple) second team all defenses. He wasn't a liablity on that end whatsover.

 

- I hated Shaq even when he was with the Lakers. He commands a boring style of basketball IMO. The defensive rule changes have mitigated that a bit but either way, I've never enjoyed watching the guy play.

 

- I acknowledged his scoring ability. How he did it is irrelevant. I simply pointed out how he did it as a comparison to the other players we're talking about, who actually had skills.

 

- As I noted what differentiates him from the other players on this list is DEFENSE, not offense. They all scored. The others were better defenders. Of course Shaq clogged the middle. If you want to compare him to Ben Wallace he wins. But compared to the other names on this list he loses, and loses BIG.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Would you rank him in the top 5 centers to ever play the game?

Shaq was physicallly dominating, for sure. I do not consider him as being very gifted or skilled though. Top 5? Umm, maybe - no higher than 5 though.

[KSB2424 3,085]

KSB's prediction: Before next season, TNT lets Chris Webber go and hires Shaq to sit opposite ends with Charles Barkely (with Kenny and Ernie in the middle). Please let this happen.

[cyclone24 1,814]

KSB's prediction: Before next season, TNT lets Chris Webber go and hires Shaq to sit opposite ends with Charles Barkely (with Kenny and Ernie in the middle). Please let this happen.

 

 

Awesome....trade one guy with a great off air personality but terrible on air...with another one...just much more egotistical.

 

Gimme Mark Jackson or reggie miller anyday.....but Mark will be coaching...dangit.

[KSB2424 3,085]

Awesome....trade one guy with a great off air personality but terrible on air...with another one...just much more egotistical.

 

Gimme Mark Jackson or reggie miller anyday.....but Mark will be coaching...dangit.

I think you are confusing calling games as an analyst (like Jackson and Reggie do) with sitting in a studio talking bball and entertaining the television veiwers. Two different things that take two different personalities.

 

Try again cornsucker.

[cyclone24 1,814]

I think you are confusing calling games as an analyst (like Jackson and Reggie do) with sitting in a studio talking bball and entertaining the television veiwers. Two different things that take two different personalities.

 

Try again cornsucker.

 

 

Yeah its impossible to do both (eyeroll)

 

Either way.....Webbers awful....and i cant imagine shaq being much better.

[cbfalcon 824]

I think you are confusing calling games as an analyst (like Jackson and Reggie do) with sitting in a studio talking bball and entertaining the television veiwers. Two different things that take two different personalities.

 

Try again cornsucker.

 

So you even love jocks so much that you'll get mad if anyone doubts their their prospective abilities as studio analysts?

[JT 137]

19 years is a hell of a long time for a big man to hang around...even if he did just hang around the last 5.

 

Top 5 all time? hmmm...

 

Wilt, Russell and Kareem are given. There's no rational argument against any of those three that I can see. Wilt is the greatest offensive force the game has ever seen, Russell the greatest defensive force, Kareem the greatest blend of all aspects of the game. So in my mind, we're left with Mikan, Shaq, Olajuwon, Malone.

 

Mikan had by far the greatest impact on the game, and was the most dominant of the respective eras. But it's hard to ignore the dearth of other quality big men in his era.

 

Shaq is probably next in that regard, though you could argue that he too benefitted from a lack of quality bigs, at least as opposed to Hakeem or Moses. Shaq also benefitted from the systematic exploitation of the illegal defense rule, thriving during the darkest time in NBA history, the latter stages of the Isolation Age. My nights are still haunted by the relentless thump of Barkley/Shaq pounding the life out of the ball on the block while their teammates wandered off into the stands in search of hot dogs and/or harlots, waiting for the inevitable whistle.

 

Shaq was always an underrated passer. Without looking, I'm sure his TO/Assist ratio is the best of the three. I know the Dream averaged more TO than assists, and if Moses averaged over an assist per game for his career it had to be a clerical error.

 

Both Malone and Olajuwon were better rebounders, and that's where I start to move Shaq behind them. Shaq never led the league in rebounding (though he did finish 2nd a few times), which is flat out criminal for a guy of his size and athleticism. In fairness, Shaq shot for a higher % from the field while Moses lived off his own misses, but there's really no excuse that the guy acknowledged as the most physicallty dominant big man of his generation only pulled down 13 a game three times.

 

Defensively, though I'd agree he wasn't a liability, Shaq wasn't a standout either. Not a great shot blocker or, as noted, defensive rebounder. Poor pick & roll defender. His sheer size clogged the lane, but that was about the extent of it.

 

The FT shooting and conditioning aspects are the final factors for me. None of the others, even Olajuwon who was so dependent on athleticism, declined as quickly as Shaq. His lack of commitment to conditioning goes back even further than the Finals loss to Detroit a full decade ago. He had gotten to a point where he used the season to get in shape for the playoffs. You could literally watch the hot dog neck disappear after the All Star break (my second hot dog reference in this post...I'm hungry). Then it became the brat neck shrinking to hot dog neck. You get the idea.

 

IMO, he ends up just out of the Top 5. No shame in heading up a group with the likes of Ewing, Robinson, Mikan, Walton, etc. But a great player who I've always thought could and should have been even greater.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Surprised at the lack of love for Patrick Ewing. True he never won a ring - but from a pure talent standpoint, he was an incredible center.

[JT 137]

Surprised at the lack of love for Patrick Ewing. True he never won a ring - but from a pure talent standpoint, he was an incredible center.

 

No doubt. In that second 5 for me. But the lack of a ring becomes a big deal when everyone else in front has at least one.

[Strike 4,009]

Surprised at the lack of love for Patrick Ewing. True he never won a ring - but from a pure talent standpoint, he was an incredible center.

 

It's not a lack of love for Ewing. It's simply that there are 5 better centers. Who would you remove from the list to insert Ewing?

[JT 137]

It's not a lack of love for Ewing. It's simply that there are 5 better centers. Who would you remove from the list to insert Ewing?

 

Under no circumstances would I insert Ewing.