Should Cam Newton win the ROY?

[Runningriot1966 6]

i hope some of yall dummies watched the carolina game today, and if you did I hope you're not so dumb that you can't see what a stud this kid is. And that you're not too dumb to understand that extending drives by running the ball for 21 yards on 3rd and 11 is not the same as 'all he is is a run first qb'

 

dummies

 

Yeah we watched him vulture three more tds from his runningbacks from inside the one again, against a team that is not even showing up these days. Again not impressed, when he throws for 4tds and no interceptions like a Brady or Rogers then I might buy into your hype.

[CheeseCake 0]

He's still bad.

[Kingstowne Dealers 14]

Yeah we watched him vulture three more tds from his runningbacks from inside the one again, against a team that is not even showing up these days. Again not impressed, when he throws for 4tds and no interceptions like a Brady or Rogers then I might buy into your hype.

I thought we were talking about the ROY?

 

Last I checked Rogers and Brady are ineligible.

[lod 0]

Here's one for you. The Dalton led Bengals have come from 10 points down in the 2nd half to win 3 times this year. That ties an all time (not just rookies) NFL record. Just playing devil's advocate.

 

Nice but how much credit does the D get in that achievement? Dalton and the O have to do their job but the D basically has to shut down the other team to give the O the chance to comeback. Just giving the other side of the argument.

 

I am impressed with both QBs.

[p00h 85]

I thought we were talking about the ROY?

 

Last I checked Rogers and Brady are ineligible.

 

 

dude don't feed the stupid. Just empowers them to say dumber and dumber things...

[Joey Gladstone 33]

Yeah we watched him vulture three more tds from his runningbacks from inside the one again, against a team that is not even showing up these days. Again not impressed, when he throws for 4tds and no interceptions like a Brady or Rogers then I might buy into your hype.

 

[Cruzer 1,992]

Okay I admit it - as much as I'd love to see Dalton make a charge for this, there is just no way Cam doesn't run away with it. The numbers and the things he's doing are sick - the game y-day highlighting it all...... Plus he scored me 41 fantasy points to put me in the playoffs.

[Chronic Husker 85]

I can totally see Newton holding out for a new contract before next season.

 

[Stewburtx8 67]

Yeah we watched him vulture three more tds from his runningbacks from inside the one again, against a team that is not even showing up these days. Again not impressed, when he throws for 4tds and no interceptions like a Brady or Rogers then I might buy into your hype.

 

 

What the heck does Brady or Rodgers have anything to do with Cam Newton???? I don't think anyone has said Cam Newton is a top 3 QB in the NFL right now. We are talking about the ROY award, and Cam Newton vs. Andy Dalton. Clearly, Cam Newton has had a better season than Dalton has. Newton even has a higher QB rating now (for those of you still grasping at that) and that's even before we consider the 500+ rushing yards and 13 rushing TD's that Newton has. Newton even had a 27 yard reception yesterday. Newton should win the award and it's not even close.

[dream_team 2]

Newton has my vote.

 

Dalton is playing great, and better than most people's expectations, but he doesn't have the same responsibilities as Newton. Cam is basically the Panther's team right now. They totally rely on him to win the game for them.

 

Dalton is being asked to be a game manager on offense and let the defense win games. Alex Smith is winning games, but no one is claiming he should be MVP.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Some posters knew when to quit. Some didn't. Dalton backers just flailing for any possible crumb to keep their argument going right now.

[RoadLizard 73]

Yeah we watched him vulture three more tds from his runningbacks from inside the one again, against a team that is not even showing up these days. Again not impressed, when he throws for 4tds and no interceptions like a Brady or Rogers then I might buy into your hype.

 

Hes ruining fantasy football. For the next few years, whoever has him on their team will just win by default. Its like starting a QB and an RB. Thats great and all but it WILL catch up to him. He'll end up getting hurt all the time. See Mike Vick.

 

Plus, the TD vulture thing is vomit-inducing. Like we need that crap these days. FF is hard enough.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Thats great and all but it WILL catch up to him. He'll end up getting hurt all the time. See Mike Vick.

That's just such a bad comparison. Cam's turds are bigger than Vick.

[CheeseCake 0]

Some posters knew when to quit. Some didn't. Dalton backers just flailing for any possible crumb to keep their argument going right now.

 

Dalton: 7-5

Newton 4-8

 

Cincinnati in 2010: 4-12

Carolina in 2010: 2-14

 

So far Dalton has won three more games than Palmer last year, and has led the Bengals into a winning season.

 

Newton, while barely able to throw the ball and cannot distinguish the difference between a wide-receiver and a cornerback, has improved the record by two games, and is still carrying a losing record.

 

Statistics don't mean much when you are still losing games. It's not even a debate.

[p00h 85]

Hes ruining fantasy football. For the next few years, whoever has him on their team will just win by default. Its like starting a QB and an RB. Thats great and all but it WILL catch up to him. He'll end up getting hurt all the time. See Mike Vick.

 

Plus, the TD vulture thing is vomit-inducing. Like we need that crap these days. FF is hard enough.

 

 

That's just such a bad comparison. Cam's turds are bigger than Vick.

 

 

yeah this is a terrible point the 'cam's just a running qb' camp throws out there. Have you every seen this dude?!? He can easily be playing LB. He's a beast. Don't get me wrong, you run around like a chicken with its head cut off, you're gonna get hurt. However, he can likely fold Mike Vick up and carry him around in his pocket like a handkerchief. He's large. ANd he doesn't just wrecklessly run around. He runs around the goaliline, much to the dismay of many here for some reason, and he runs when the play breaks down, to extend it. Having watched some of his games, the reason he rips off 20 yard runs on 3rd and long is because its after the D has settled into a zone and most have their backs turned to him. As long as he doesn't seek out punishment, and most often gets out of bounds or slides down, he'll not be an injury risk, any more than any other qb is an injury risk from sitting in the pocket all day.

 

It's like everyone wants to fit Cam into some perception they have of him, and just make assumptions, or in teh case of the real idiots flat out just make up inaccurate stuff to paint Cam a 'run first' qb or an INT machine, or a TD vulture. Watch the damn game. Or watch highlights at the very least. It's likely a bit of hyperbole, but his combined prowess in terms of running and passing makes him extremely unique, especially at his size, and its not too crazy to say that if we aren't even close to seeing his ceiling yet, then he's got a very good chance at revolutionizing the position...

[p00h 85]

Dalton: 7-5

Newton 4-8

 

Cincinnati in 2010: 4-12

Carolina in 2010: 2-14

 

So far Dalton has won three more games than Palmer last year, and has led the Bengals into a winning season.

 

Newton, while barely able to throw the ball and cannot distinguish the difference between a wide-receiver and a cornerback, has improved the record by two games, and is still carrying a losing record.

 

Statistics don't mean much when you are still losing games. It's not even a debate.

 

 

i know at this stage you're just trolling, but it still doesn't make you any less of an idiot...

[CheeseCake 0]

i know at this stage you're just trolling, but it still doesn't make you any less of an idiot...

 

Come back to me when Sham Newton has a winning record.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

Dalton: 7-5

Newton 4-8

 

Cincinnati in 2010: 4-12

Carolina in 2010: 2-14

 

So far Dalton has won three more games than Palmer last year, and has led the Bengals into a winning season.

 

Newton, while barely able to throw the ball and cannot distinguish the difference between a wide-receiver and a cornerback, has improved the record by two games, and is still carrying a losing record.

 

Statistics don't mean much when you are still losing games. It's not even a debate.

 

Cheesecake is a f@ggy dessert.

[seadog54 20]

This is a no brainier guys... the only people who think Dalton should be ROY are Cincy fans or Newton haters from college.

 

There is no legit argument for Dalton other than the team record which doesn't mean crap because Cincy has a much better overall team and defense. In terms of individual achievements, Dalton doesn't even come close to Newton.

 

If you guys want to argue about records than Alex Smith should have more MVP votes over Drew Brees. Dumb!

[CheeseCake 0]

Ok we'll play by your rules. Dalton is still better.

 

Dalton has thrown seventeen touchdowns and only twelve interceptions in an offense with Cedric Benson and AJ Green, a first year inexperienced player, as his two offensive focal points.

 

What does Newton have? He has a two time Super Bowl champ in Jeremy Shockey, Greg Olsen (highly underrated), Johnathan Stewart, and Steve Smith. He still has more interceptions than passing TDs.

 

Both of the defenses are equally bad. You cannot say the Bengals have a better defense when they have lost four starting defensive backs this year, and were shredded apart by Pittsburgh Sunday.

 

Cincinnatti's defense has just been playing better and has been better coached overall, but the talent level is still pretty tame.

 

The only other difference is that Newton hawks goal line touchdowns as someone already said. If I wanted running touchdowns I could use a running back, so those aren't too impressive.

 

Passing wise, though, which is what a quarterback, should be compared by, Dalton is better no question.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Dalton: 7-5

Newton 4-8

 

Cincinnati in 2010: 4-12

Carolina in 2010: 2-14

 

So far Dalton has won three more games than Palmer last year, and has led the Bengals into a winning season.

 

Newton, while barely able to throw the ball and cannot distinguish the difference between a wide-receiver and a cornerback, has improved the record by two games, and is still carrying a losing record.

 

Statistics don't mean much when you are still losing games. It's not even a debate.

[KSB2424 3,083]

When I was in college we used to cook the weed into brownies and eat them. It appears the new thing to use is cheese cake.

[Dan 59]

So . . . much . . . hyperbole.

 

No one can just say, "These two are really having great rookie seasons. My preference is 'x' because . . ."

 

There isn't a "no-brainer" in the argument. Cam Newton, 2 games in, was anointed the ROY by the entirety of the media . . . and who could blame them when the guy put up a ridiculous 854 yards. Game 4 he added to the insane number by posting 374 yards. 1400 yards in the first four games was a "no-brainer." It allowed people to overlook the pedestrian performance against the only decent defense faced during that time. His numbers since then have been good for a rookie, though not nearly what the start of the season was. What it hasn't been is bad. If he were bad, then the excitement over the spectacular start probably would have been tempered a bit. Regardless, the guy is talented, and is having a statistically phenomenal rookie year. Kudos. He'll probably win the award. Ultimately, he's done what a very good player does. He has excelled against bad to below average defenses, and had less success against better ones (Jax, Tennessee)

 

Now before anyone gets on my remarks about the "good, not great" comment, I beg you to put his numbers in perspective, and look at passing numbers across the league. Draw your own conclusions in a year where three quarterbacks are on pace to break Dan Marino's long-standing record, and passing offense is up across the board, and this is something to consider.

 

On the other side, Dalton was not asked to do as much early on, but his role has steadily increased as the season wears on. Are his numbers as dynamic as Newton's? I'm afraid not. While Dalton definitely has the better defense, and a team with more to play for, where the Bengals are young is at Wide Receiver and Tight End. Further, the Bengals rushing attack has been, well . . . not as good as the Panthers.

 

Does this matter in ROY? Maybe it does, unless all you're interested in is the gaudy number. 3297. That's big. But if I'm making a case for Dalton, I'm looking at other things. You see, Cam had my vote until I watched Dalton poised under pressure against the Steelers, and a week later against the Ravens. This is eyeball testing, for those who ask for that. And poise against Pittsburgh and Baltimore is more impressive than poise against New Orleans and Tampa. Just saying.

Pittsburgh (#1), Baltimore (#3), San Francisco (#5), Cleveland (#8), Jacksonville (#4). They comprise six contests against top-10 defenses. Tennessee and Seattle are top 20.

 

600 yards separate the two in passing. Frankly, I'm surprised it's not more.

 

But my vote is still for Dalton.

[unloopme 4]

When I was in college we used to cook the weed into brownies and eat them. It appears the new thing to use is cheese cake.

Ha, you beat me to the punch!

First thing I thought after reading those posts was...he got good weed.

[PackYourNut 47]

Dalton: 7-5

Newton 4-8

 

Cincinnati in 2010: 4-12

Carolina in 2010: 2-14

 

So far Dalton has won three more games than Palmer last year, and has led the Bengals into a winning season.

 

Newton, while barely able to throw the ball and cannot distinguish the difference between a wide-receiver and a cornerback, has improved the record by two games, and is still carrying a losing record.

 

Statistics don't mean much when you are still losing games. It's not even a debate.

 

Are you really this focking stupid?

 

According to YOUR stats, so far Newton has doubled the amount of wins from last year. Dalton has not. It's called a % increase. Look it up!

[CheeseCake 0]

Are you really this focking stupid?

 

According to YOUR stats, so far Newton has doubled the amount of wins from last year. Dalton has not. It's called a % increase. Look it up!

 

Is Newton a playoff contender this year? No.

Is Dalton? Maybe.

 

Oh by the way my friend, if Dalton wins just one more game this year he doubles the record too.

 

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Is Newton a playoff contender this year? No.

 

 

So now you have to be a playoff contender to win ROY? It's hard to keep up with that bar you keep flinging around.

[p00h 85]

Ha, you beat me to the punch!

First thing I thought after reading those posts was...he got good weed.

 

 

he didn't get any good weed. His moms was smoking the good stuff when she was preggo with him. Hence the retardation...

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

You Dalton advocates are either racist, stupid or blind. The guy has accounted for almost twice as many yards and TDs. Yes stats dint tell the while story but in this instance you can't deny such a large disparity. People talking about garbage time stats... Where were Daltons yesterday? That's what I thought.

[Stewburtx8 67]

So . . . much . . . hyperbole.

 

No one can just say, "These two are really having great rookie seasons. My preference is 'x' because . . ."

 

There isn't a "no-brainer" in the argument. Cam Newton, 2 games in, was anointed the ROY by the entirety of the media . . . and who could blame them when the guy put up a ridiculous 854 yards. Game 4 he added to the insane number by posting 374 yards. 1400 yards in the first four games was a "no-brainer." It allowed people to overlook the pedestrian performance against the only decent defense faced during that time. His numbers since then have been good for a rookie, though not nearly what the start of the season was. What it hasn't been is bad. If he were bad, then the excitement over the spectacular start probably would have been tempered a bit. Regardless, the guy is talented, and is having a statistically phenomenal rookie year. Kudos. He'll probably win the award. Ultimately, he's done what a very good player does. He has excelled against bad to below average defenses, and had less success against better ones (Jax, Tennessee)

 

Now before anyone gets on my remarks about the "good, not great" comment, I beg you to put his numbers in perspective, and look at passing numbers across the league. Draw your own conclusions in a year where three quarterbacks are on pace to break Dan Marino's long-standing record, and passing offense is up across the board, and this is something to consider.

 

On the other side, Dalton was not asked to do as much early on, but his role has steadily increased as the season wears on. Are his numbers as dynamic as Newton's? I'm afraid not. While Dalton definitely has the better defense, and a team with more to play for, where the Bengals are young is at Wide Receiver and Tight End. Further, the Bengals rushing attack has been, well . . . not as good as the Panthers.

 

Does this matter in ROY? Maybe it does, unless all you're interested in is the gaudy number. 3297. That's big. But if I'm making a case for Dalton, I'm looking at other things. You see, Cam had my vote until I watched Dalton poised under pressure against the Steelers, and a week later against the Ravens. This is eyeball testing, for those who ask for that. And poise against Pittsburgh and Baltimore is more impressive than poise against New Orleans and Tampa. Just saying.

Pittsburgh (#1), Baltimore (#3), San Francisco (#5), Cleveland (#8), Jacksonville (#4). They comprise six contests against top-10 defenses. Tennessee and Seattle are top 20.

 

600 yards separate the two in passing. Frankly, I'm surprised it's not more.

 

But my vote is still for Dalton.

 

 

I always respect your opinions Dan. In this case I just don't agree. You can say Dalton was poised under pressure against Pitsburgh and Baltimore, which he was, but that didn't really translate to on field success. Cincinnati still lost all 3 games, and Dalton had 4 TD's, 5 INT's, and a completion percentage just barely over 50%. Against SF, another loss, he had 0 TD's and 2 INT's. It's not as if he has lit the world on fire when he's faced tougher competition. But I don't want to dismiss what Dalton has accomplished this year. He has been very good and I think he will be a solid NFL QB for a long time. But Cam Newton has just been better in my opinion.

 

If you just look at the passing numbers and strength of schedule, you could conclude that Dalton has been better. I would even accept an argument that Dalton as been as good or even a better PASSER than Cam. But I think Newton has been the much better PLAYER. Newton has 518 rushing yards and 13 rushing TD's. That is pretty significant, no? Take away Cam's rushing stats and the Carolina run game is no longer better than the Bengals running game. That doesn't even account for the times he hands it off on read options where the defense has to respect the fact that he may keep it himself. Cam has transformed the Carolina offense this season. The team has scored over 90 more points in 12 games than the 2010 Panthers did in 16 games. He has given a team hope that looked completely hopeless last season. My vote is definitely with Cam, but I can respect the opposite view point that your have presented. It's an honest accessment and not just the "Dalton has a better record" argument. We will agree to disagree I guess.

[unloopme 4]

he didn't get any good weed. His moms was smoking the good stuff when she was preggo with him. Hence the retardation...

 

You Dalton advocates are either racist, stupid or blind. The guy has accounted for almost twice as many yards and TDs. Yes stats dint tell the while story but in this instance you can't deny such a large disparity. People talking about garbage time stats... Where were Daltons yesterday? That's what I thought.

Occurred to me too.

[Dan 59]

To wit . . . not saying Dalton was exceptional in the games against top ten defenses. Quite the contrary, with a couple of exceptions. I recognize that Dalton has those losses to his credit. My point is that he has had more very good defenses to knock his numbers down. I'm not a wins/losses kind of guy in evaluating a ROY candidate. I like Dalton because of what I see in him. He's taken more lumps than Newton, but I would expect nothing less, given the defenses each has played.

 

No problem with the Cam votes, or your disagreement, Stew. However, I'm likely to continue to think that Dalton is the better player. I think it's no small thing that he's playing with a bunch of youth. Just as an experiment . . . quick, and without looking, name Cincinnati's most experienced receiver. It's okay, most people will look it up. Steve Smith has more experience than the group of them . . . combined.

 

Cam Newton will win it, mostly because he is more "exciting" to watch. But I can't agree that he's the better player. I just can't bring myself to do it. Maybe if he does well against Houston, I'll have to re-evaluate, but I'm not ready.

[CheeseCake 0]

So now you have to be a playoff contender to win ROY? It's hard to keep up with that bar you keep flinging around.

 

No.

 

 

In this case though, I would take Dalton (who might lead his team into the post season, with a 7-5 record so far, throwing 17 td to 12 int) over Cam Newton (who won't make the post season, with a 4-8 record so far, throwing 13 td to 14 int). So yes, I would take the player who clearly has led his team more successfully for ROY.

 

Did any of you pass basic mathematics?

[Stewburtx8 67]

Fair enough. I am sure Steve Smith's experience helps, but his experience certainly didn't help the 2010 Panthers much. In terms of talent, AJ Green is every bit as good, and hasn't looked or played like a rookie receiver. Jerome Simpson is probably more talented than Brandon LaFell. Jermaine Gresham is just as good as Greg Olsen. Dalton isn't short on talent in my opinion relative to Cam Newton. Again, in many other years, Dalton would be my choice for ROY. But this year, I would vote for Cam. I actually didn't think it was close, but your argument has made me see another point of view.

[Dan 59]

Fair enough. I am sure Steve Smith's experience helps, but his experience certainly didn't help the 2010 Panthers much. In terms of talent, AJ Green is every bit as good, and hasn't looked or played like a rookie receiver. Jerome Simpson is probably more talented than Brandon LaFell. Jermaine Gresham is just as good as Greg Olsen. Dalton isn't short on talent in my opinion relative to Cam Newton. Again, in many other years, Dalton would be my choice for ROY. But this year, I would vote for Cam. I actually didn't think it was close, but your argument has made me see another point of view.

[jerryskids 5,207]

You Dalton advocates are either racist, stupid or blind. The guy has accounted for almost twice as many yards and TDs. Yes stats dint tell the while story but in this instance you can't deny such a large disparity. People talking about garbage time stats... Where were Daltons yesterday? That's what I thought.

 

Well I'm not stupid or blind, so if I support Dalton I must be racist? Not that I do support him, just making sure I follow your logic Reverend Al.

[JT 137]

I can totally see Newton holding out for a new contract before next season.

 

 

He should have enough squirreled away from his college days.

[p00h 85]

i don't wnat to derail this discussion, especially considering the level of retard that already exists here, but race definitely plays a factor in people judging Cam. The first thing most people throw out there is, 'oh he's just another running qb' This clearly alludes to the long standing stereotype that black qbs are just running qbs and not good at much else. That's why its laughable that most of the dalton supporters are saying the most idiotic things about Cam. Clearly they haven't seen him play. Dude throws a sick ball, he singlehandedly resucitated SS's career, and is on pace to throw for 4500 yards! 45fuckin00 yards! Yes he also runs the ball, but that doesn't define who he is, or will be in the NFL. He's not just a run first qb, he's not michael vick, he's not daunte culpepper, he's not donovan mcnabb. Not saying he's better than all of them, or worse, what I'm saying is that you can't just compare him to those guys because he's black and they are also. Anyone that makes those comparisions is making them based solely on race, and that does make you a racist...

 

Anyways, don't want to detail the retardfest here, so we now return you to the usual program...

[Dan 59]

i don't wnat to derail this discussion, especially considering the level of retard that already exists here, but race definitely plays a factor in people judging Cam. The first thing most people throw out there is, 'oh he's just another running qb' This clearly alludes to the long standing stereotype that black qbs are just running qbs and not good at much else. That's why its laughable that most of the dalton supporters are saying the most idiotic things about Cam. Clearly they haven't seen him play. Dude throws a sick ball, he singlehandedly resucitated SS's career, and is on pace to throw for 4500 yards! 45fuckin00 yards! Yes he also runs the ball, but that doesn't define who he is, or will be in the NFL. He's not just a run first qb, he's not michael vick, he's not daunte culpepper, he's not donovan mcnabb. Not saying he's better than all of them, or worse, what I'm saying is that you can't just compare him to those guys because he's black and they are also. Anyone that makes those comparisions is making them based solely on race, and that does make you a racist...

 

Anyways, don't want to detail the retardfest here, so we now return you to the usual program...

 

 

 

Do you read?

[CheeseCake 0]

The difference I think is that Dalton has the ability to win you games. Newton just is able to screw around and put up numbers.