Atheists

[Blitzen 0]

Universalism is un-Biblical. When men seek out to find God, they join cults. Because men can't choose God, God has to choose men. Christ made it clear that "NO MAN" comes to salvation unless God himself draws him to salvation(John 6:44). Most American churches teach watered down "universalism" which states that all you have to do is choose Jesus, say a prayer, and you will be saved. Which is total "bullsh!+". God only chooses an elect few for salvation, for his glory alone, and the rest are doomed to the destruction we all deserve for disobeying God constantly. Christ said himself that God gives him his sheep, and that his sheep know his voice. So how can a goat know the shepherd's voice if he is not one of the sheep? He can't, that's how. So how do you know you are selected to God for adoption as one of his sons? If you are drawn by God to Christ by his voice, that's how. It's not a choice "you" made, it's a choice "God" made(Eph 1:5). Since when has an orphan kicked in the front door of a man's house and told that man "I choose you to be my father, and everything you own is now mine"? It doesn't ever work that way. The father goes to the orphanage ans carefully selects the child who he wants to call his son, and then makes that child an heir to his property. The themes in the Bible are crystal clear, that only a few chosen people are spared by God, while the rest get what they rightly deserve, which is justice. Only the few chosen know the shepherds voice. Many are invited to the wedding, but the chosen of the wedding are few(Matt 22:14). And only the chosen have wedding garments, the rest are cast into outer darkness where they belong(Matt 22:13). The entire theme of the Bible is that God always chooses only a few men to save, while destroying the rest. And before you say "NO FAIR", every man who has ever been born deserves destruction, including even me, the Savage beast, a true prophet of God. God chose Abram(who was a pagan Arab cultist from Mesopotamia), and changed his name to Abraham, and made a covenant with this pagan man if he would do as God told him to. And Abraham did. But Abraham was not perfect by any means, he also disobeyed God and lied about Sarai(Sarah) being his wife in order to spare his own life. But God chose Abraham, so Abraham was righteous in God's eyes, so this is why Abraham is not in Hell. Because he was chosen by God. Abraham did not choose God, he was a pagan before God sought him out and chose him. Lot the nephew of Abraham was chosen by God to be spared from the utter destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The rest were destroyed, including Lot's own wife for disobeying God. Noah was chosen from his geographical Middle East region to be spared the flood, while the rest were destroyed. And Noah's family was spared as well, but only because God chose Noah, and it was Noah's imparted righteousness on his pagan sons that spared their lives. The bible does not say Noah chose God. Noah said "God, i choose you, and therefore I deserve to be spared from dying in the flood". That's not how it works. God chooses who he will spare from utter destruction, not the other way around. And "EVERY MAN" deserves to be destroyed, because every man has conceived sin in his heart(James 1:14-15), and please don't try to blame sin on the mythological creature called Lucifer. Because the Hebrew noun שָׂטָן(satan) means adversary, and it's not a capitalized proper name or a synonym of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל(heylel the light bearer morning star) either. Satan is not a bad word at all. Christ the Angel of the Lord himself is called שָׂטָן(satan) in (Numbers 22:22). The Angel of the Lord was an adversaryשָׂטָן(satan) to Balaam, because Balaam kindeled the anger of God. The Hebrew noun (satan) simply means adversary and nothing more. God is love, but God is also sovereign, and therefore 100% moral and without error. Which means God and God alone has the authority to either spare a man, o condemn a man to outer darkness. And God makes it crystal that if he gives a man faith in his son the Christ, that man will be spared outer darkness because of his son the Christ's sake alone. Those sheep God gives to his son the Christ are adopted as sons and daughters and are joint heirs to the son's property for the son's sake. The shepherd son gave his life for his sheep, and bought them with a blood price(1 Cor 6:20), so those who were bought by the shepherd are now his sheep. If you aren't bought by God, then it's outer darkness for you, and you deserve even worse, as do all men. So in the words of the great poet William Munny "Deserves got nothin to do with it". You are either one of the chosen few, or you are not. End of story.

 

See if I bought a dog, which is massively less intelligent than humans, and kept beating it every time it did something wrong in math, that would be deemed cruel because I clearly knew ahead of time it woud fail. Now we have an all-knowing God who creates us inferior beings, knowing well-ahead of time (as he is after all all-knowing) that we would fail him/her and then he/she punishes this imperfect creation of his/hers for being imperfect. Yep, that is certainly not cruel. Not only that but one of the most important of his/her churches harbours pedophiles and yet those are not struck down immediately for carrying out what has to be one of the most horrible acts conceivable. Da Lord worketh in mysterious, and mostly illogical, ways.

 

Or was it when the girl ate the apple that everything went to shiot? Yeah I think Yellow Delicious apples are horrible too. Probably worth damning all of humanity over.

 

Or maybe it's this free will thing that he gave us and that he's now punishing us for using not to choose him. Seems like we had free will just like Henry Ford had several color options for the Model T.

[Casual Observer 597]

I always thought your Christianity was nuttier than most but this takes the cake. But I was wrong. I now realizt that you're not Christian at all. This is a cult. What is this Satanism? This is terrible. It takes all my effort to finish reading this pure evil diatribe. How can you worship a monster god like this?

 

I far perfer naomi's god or Fumbleweed's god. As far as cults go, I even prefer John Travolta's or Mitt Romney's to yours.

 

Not all religions are equally stupid. Yours is tied at the bottom of the barrell with Osama bin Laden's, David Koresh's, Jim Jones' and Marshall Applewhite's.

 

The quoted looks like Calvinsim and their doctrine of "the Elect".

[Savage Beast 1]

I always thought your Christianity was nuttier than most but this takes the cake. But I was wrong. I now realizt that you're not Christian at all. This is a cult. What is this Satanism? This is terrible. It takes all my effort to finish reading this pure evil diatribe. How can you worship a monster god like this?

 

I far perfer naomi's god or Fumbleweed's god. As far as cults go, I even prefer John Travolta's or Mitt Romney's to yours.

 

Not all religions are equally stupid. Yours is tied at the bottom of the barrell with Osama bin Laden's, David Koresh's, Jim Jones' and Marshall Applewhite's.

 

So, instead a righteous God should save everybody from righteous judgment who was ever born, including those who commit genocide, rape, theft, torture, murder, and who mock God daily with their atheistic, agnostic, and other goobldy goob made up polytheistic gods and goddesses, etc.........?

 

This is what a righteous God does? Lets people do their own thing, therefore sinning and doing horrible acts, and God just says, "It's all good, do man can do waht they want, worship what they want, and I still will make them an heir to my eternal kingdom and grant them eternal life". Is this what a righteous and sovereign God is like?

 

Not hardly you Godless b@stard.

[drobeski 3,061]

So, instead a righteous God should save everybody from righteous judgment who was ever born, including those who commit genocide, rape, theft, torture, murder, and who mock God daily with their atheistic, agnostic, and other goobldy goob made up polytheistic gods and goddesses, etc.........?

 

This is what a righteous God does? Lets people do their own thing, therefore sinning and doing horrible acts, and God just says, "It's all good, do man can do waht they want, worship what they want, and I still will make them an heir to my eternal kingdom and grant them eternal life". Is this what a righteous and sovereign God is like?

 

Not hardly you Godless b@stard.

put the pipe down

[Voltaire 5,317]

So, instead a righteous God should save everybody from righteous judgment who was ever born, including those who commit genocide, rape, theft, torture, murder, and who mock God daily with their atheistic, agnostic, and other goobldy goob made up polytheistic gods and goddesses, etc.........?

 

This is what a righteous God does? Lets people do their own thing, therefore sinning and doing horrible acts, and God just says, "It's all good, do man can do waht they want, worship what they want, and I still will make them an heir to my eternal kingdom and grant them eternal life". Is this what a righteous and sovereign God is like?

 

Not hardly you Godless b@stard.

People who think it's all bullsh*t and have better uses for their cash that fork it over to Christian church leaders are condemned to burn eternally by every variation of Christianity. So I don't have any personal interest in this.

 

It just seems totally alien to me that God picks who he wants and nobody can change his mind no matter how well or poorly they lead their lives.

 

Before I caught onto the charade, I was always taught that anybody who does A, B, and C, doesn't do X, Y, and Z, goes to church, sends in the cash, and prays was guaranteed a spot in heaven. It was open admission to all who wanted it.

 

Now that I think about it, your way makes more sense. It certainly explains God's 0-fer-1000 success rate at answering my prayer requests far better than the drivel I was taught. It's not that God can't help me because he doesn't exist; God exists, he can help me but he won't because he just doesn't give a rat's ass about me. With your way, he does exist, he's just an a$$hole. Fock that useless-ass deity, I've got better things to do than pray to that piece of sh*t.

[jerryskids 6,805]

So, instead a righteous God should save everybody from righteous judgment who was ever born, including those who commit genocide, rape, theft, torture, murder, and who mock God daily with their atheistic, agnostic, and other goobldy goob made up polytheistic gods and goddesses, etc.........?

 

This is what a righteous God does? Lets people do their own thing, therefore sinning and doing horrible acts, and God just says, "It's all good, do man can do waht they want, worship what they want, and I still will make them an heir to my eternal kingdom and grant them eternal life". Is this what a righteous and sovereign God is like?

 

Not hardly you Godless b@stard.

Somewhere between this and your fatalistic last post is what most Christians believe. According to your last post, it doesn't matter what I do; if God hasn't chosen me I'm screwed.

[penultimatestraw 473]

People who think it's all bullsh*t and have better uses for their cash that fork it over to Christian church leaders are condemned to burn eternally by every variation of Christianity. So I don't have any personal interest in this.

 

It just seems totally alien to me that God picks who he wants and nobody can change his mind no matter how well or poorly they lead their lives.

 

Before I caught onto the charade, I was always taught that anybody who does A, B, and C, doesn't do X, Y, and Z, goes to church, sends in the cash, and prays was guaranteed a spot in heaven. It was open admission to all who wanted it.

 

Now that I think about it, your way makes more sense. It certainly explains God's 0-fer-1000 success rate at answering my prayer requests far better than the drivel I was taught. It's not that God can't help me because he doesn't exist; God exists, he can help me but he won't because he just doesn't give a rat's ass about me. With your way, he does exist, he's just an a$$hole. Fock that useless-ass deity, I've got better things to do than pray to that piece of sh*t.

I can believe God doesn't care - why the hell would she care about something so insignificant relative to her omnipotence/omnipresence? What I can't understand is why anyone would be chosen, and if it is all preordained why inundate the rest of us with rules from a 3500 year-old book?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Somewhere between this and your fatalistic last post is what most Christians believe. According to your last post, it doesn't matter what I do; if God hasn't chosen me I'm screwed.

You're not screwed; life is great if you live it without illusions of the hereafter.

[jerryskids 6,805]

You're not screwed; life is great if you live it without illusions of the hereafter.

I was merely pointing out that in his manifesto he said that we don't choose God, he chooses us, and it doesn't matter what we do if he hasn't chosen us. Then in the post I quoted he said "what, do you expect God to save everybody?"

 

I live my life trying to be generally a good person, except to hoytdwow, but he is an ass so I figure that won't hurt me. If there is an afterlife and I've earned it, then bonus!

[Voltaire 5,317]

Sometimes "the chosen" decide to kill themselves: Jim Jones, Waco, Marshall Applewhite. So in Savage Beast's case we may have that going for us.

 

Then you have Harold Camping who freaked me out by successfully predicting Jesus would lead the chosen to heaven May 21st last year. I thought it was going to be a big joke, and couldn't believe he got it right.

 

http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/sacredheartjesus.jpg

 

http://ts4.cn.mm.bing.net/th?id=I4610433333920211&pid=1.5

[IGotWorms 4,058]

The atheists won this thread

[Gepetto 1,368]

The atheists won this thread

 

 

LOL, yet lost their souls to eternal damnation and pain.

[Voltaire 5,317]

LOL, yet lost their souls to eternal damnation and pain.

 

Actually, we realized these scare tactics are a big hoax intended to take our money. It doesn't make any sense when you think about it and look at the evidence. If you can't see through the bullsh*t though, that's fine. You do what you want.

[drobeski 3,061]

Actually, we realized these scare tactics are a big hoax intended to take our money. It doesn't make any sense when you thinkk about it and look at the evidence. If you can't see through the bullsh*t though, that's fine. You do what you want.

You should apply this thinking to your feelings on the democratic party. Spot on.

[Casual Observer 597]

People who think it's all bullsh*t and have better uses for their cash that fork it over to Christian church leaders are condemned to burn eternally by every variation of Christianity. So I don't have any personal interest in this.

 

It just seems totally alien to me that God picks who he wants and nobody can change his mind no matter how well or poorly they lead their lives.

 

Before I caught onto the charade, I was always taught that anybody who does A, B, and C, doesn't do X, Y, and Z, goes to church, sends in the cash, and prays was guaranteed a spot in heaven. It was open admission to all who wanted it.

 

Now that I think about it, your way makes more sense. It certainly explains God's 0-fer-1000 success rate at answering my prayer requests far better than the drivel I was taught. It's not that God can't help me because he doesn't exist; God exists, he can help me but he won't because he just doesn't give a rat's ass about me. With your way, he does exist, he's just an a$$hole. Fock that useless-ass deity, I've got better things to do than pray to that piece of sh*t.

 

I always thought your displeasure with God stemmed from the fact that you were born as a white dude with no rap game in 8 mile.

[Voltaire 5,317]

I always thought your displeasure with God stemmed from the fact that you were born as a white dude with no rape game in 8 mile.

I assume that you mean rap, not rape.

 

Eight Mile is a road. That's all it is. To the north of this road are decent blue collar suburban people who work hard for little money. They repair their homes, mow their lawns, shovel the snow, participate in community and civic groups, respect the cops, and try hard to keep drugs and gangs out. Further north away from 8 Mile are the nice suburbs. To the south of this road is a vast cesspool you are familiar with known as Detroit city limits. Although both sides of Eight Mile are poor, people who live one block north of Eight Mile like to think that we have much more in common with people who live at 22 Mile than we have with people who live one block south of Eight Mile.

 

One white guy my age from my community was into rap, every other white person was into pop, rock, or heavy metal. I may actually have a great rap game since I personally believe it is easy and any moron could write rap. It takes no talent to write and requires zero skill whatsoever to perform. As it turns out, I can't listen to that noise for more than a few seconds without having to reach for an Excedrin so I've never actually tried to develop any skills in this "art form" that I don't resepect.

 

So while I appreciate Eminem for making Eight Mile well know, I'm not familiar with his music. I can now tell people online from all over the country that I'm from Eight Mile, people know exactly what that means, so I do believe Eminem does a good job explaining us to people that actually like his music even though I personally don't listen to it.

 

As for God, I made my peace a long time ago. I don't bother thinking about God except when the topic comes up here I post here. So I don't really give a sh*t or spend any time with it anymore. I've moved one. That wasn't always the case. I wrestled with that a long time when I was a teenager, so there was a lot of animosity there for a long while. God now is much like the Boston Celtics and the Colorado Avalanche. Three things I use to have a heck of lot of resentment towards but in all instances that was a long time ago and I've moved on. The Avs I don't give a sh*t about anymore and I was actually rooting for the Celtics to beat the LeBrons. As for God, how can you be mad at a fairy tale? I just don't want people who are deep in that stuff to use the government to fock with everybody else. Also it's fun to make fun of them.

[Casual Observer 597]

I assume that you mean rap, not rape.

 

Eight Mile is a road. That's all it is. To the north of this road are decent blue collar suburban people who work hard for little money. They repair their homes, mow their lawns, shovel the snow, participate in community and civic groups, respect the cops, and try hard to keep drugs and gangs out. Further north away from 8 Mile are the nice suburbs. To the south of this road is a vast cesspool you are familiar with known as Detroit city limits. Although both sides of Eight Mile are poor, people who live one block north of Eight Mile like to think that we have much more in common with people who live at 22 Mile than we have with people who live one block south of Eight Mile.

 

One white guy my age from my community was into rap, every other white person was into pop, rock, or heavy metal. I may actually have a great rap game since I personally believe it is easy and any moron could write rap. It takes no talent to write and requires zero skill whatsoever to perform. As it turns out, I can't listen to that noise for more than a few seconds without having to reach for an Excedrin so I've never actually tried to develop any skills in this "art form" that I don't resepect.

 

So while I appreciate Eminem for making Eight Mile well know, I'm not familiar with his music. I can now tell people online from all over the country that I'm from Eight Mile, people know exactly what that means, so I do believe Eminem does a good job explaining us to people that actually like his music even though I personally don't listen to it.

 

As for God, I made my peace a long time ago. I don't bother thinking about God except when the topic comes up here I post here. So I don't really give a sh*t or spend any time with it anymore. I've moved one. That wasn't always the case. I wrestled with that a long time when I was a teenager, so there was a lot of animosity there for a long while. God now is much like the Boston Celtics and the Colorado Avalanche. Three things I use to have a heck of lot of resentment towards but in all instances that was a long time ago and I've moved on. The Avs I don't give a sh*t about anymore and I was actually rooting for the Celtics to beat the LeBrons. As for God, how can you be mad at a fairy tale? I just don't want people who are deep in that stuff to use the government to fock with everybody else. Also it's fun to make fun of them.

 

Yes, rap.

[naomi 356]

It just seems totally alien to me that God picks who he wants and nobody can change his mind no matter how well or poorly they lead their lives.

 

 

Romans chapter 8 is good as far as Paul laying out the logic of this. You might reject what is presupposed, but it at least lays it bare.

 

Ephesians 1:4-10:

 

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

 

The 'mystery of his will' a Christian knows is the very last part. A good (biblically consistent) definition of grace is 'unmerited favor.' Christians cannot look within and go 'oh yeah, this is why God chose to justify me through Jesus Christ.'

 

No one is worthy, despite how they live their lives. We have corrupt natures. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)

 

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." (Isaiah 64:6)

 

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." (Hebrews 4:12-13)

 

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

 

What would actually be injustice going unchecked, were it not for an atonement entering into the picture, is God saving anyone at all.

 

At the same time, the bible talks about the change that happens in a believer. I'm bringing that up because people (understandably) wonder if people who believe they're redeemed and can't lose that standing before God (which is biblically consistent) feel at liberty to indulge in sin/depravity. "Regenerate man" actually has a new will that wants to do God's. It's not a perfect will on this side of life, they're not without sin, but sin doesn't have dominion in their nature, because their affections have been cast toward God....something that's entirely unnatural to us outside of him stepping in.

 

You're not going to be at peace living contrary to what's been written on your heart. Sin might offer satisfaction for a season, but you're pretty miserable continuing to walk it, and knowing that you've been reconciled to God through Christ and that won't be taken away, doesn't numb that.

 

"We love him, because he first loved us." (1 John 4:19)

 

As an aside, I know full well that an unbeliever can, in effect, act more Godly than a believer. It happens. The bible talks about how faith without works is dead (not to be confused with the wrong idea that faith comes by works). Someone claiming the name of Christ who's walk carries on contrary to their profession, is definitely off kilter somehow. The bible talks about how God chastens his own. That situation is between the individual and God. Man shouldn't put himself in a place of mediatory authority there, because someone's actions can change without their heart connecting to it anyway. And so what good does that do? Nothing, if your care is people knowing and being known by God. Which should be a Christian's care. Sharing the gospel and prayer is how they act on it. If your care is controlling/corralling people, than you'll be interested in usurping that authority. Rejection of God, biblically speaking, happens with profound significance- it's given a lot of focus, in the realm of people claiming his name. Paul: "Having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof, from such turn away." (2 Timothy 2:5) By usurping into his realm of authority, you're rejecting that it is his. That's the climate false religion thrives in. Man forwarding the idea that his actions can be the key to reconciling himself before God (which denies the fundamental problem of our nature- as good as we can find it in ourselves to be, it's not good enough to make up for our inherent depravity) goes part and parcel with that.

[Voltaire 5,317]

Romans chapter 8 is good as far as Paul laying out the logic of this. You might reject what is presupposed, but it at least lays it bare.

 

Ephesians 1:4-10:

 

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

 

Not really.

 

Who is 'us/we'? I was always taught that redemption through Jesus was available to everybody who wants in. It seems Savage Beast's god has a list and if you're not on that list, don't bother applying, you can't get on it. Even people who want to be godly can forget it, God doesn't want them.

[naomi 356]

Not really.

 

Who is 'us/we'? I was always taught that redemption through Jesus was available to everybody who wants in. It seems Savage Beast's god has a list and if you're not on that list, don't bother applying, you can't get on it. Even people who want to be godly can forget it, God doesn't want them.

 

 

Savage Beast and I actually agree on what is referred to as the doctrine of election, or predestination- that God predestinated believers from the very beginning. Those believers are the us/we there.

 

No one actually knows, in the depths of them, that they need redemption that's solely in Christ, unless God reveals that to them. We 'seek' with our own ideas of God, and ourselves, in play. It's not natural for us to really see how dead in trespasses and sins we are. When that's really seen, what Christ did has real value to a heart. It's more than conceptual, eternal insurance plan type value.

 

Arthur W. Pink puts it this way: "There is a continual need to return to the great fundamental of the faith. As long as the age lasts the Gospel of God’s grace must be preached. The need arises out of the natural state of the human heart, which is essentially legalistic. The cardinal error against which the Gospel has to contend is the inveterate tendency of men to rely on their own performances. The great antagonist to the truth is the pride of man, which causes him to imagine that he can be, in part at least, his own savior. This error is the prolific mother of a multitude of heresies. It is by this falsehood that the pure stream of God’s truth, passing through human channels, has been polluted."

 

The way I look at it is that if a person is interested in the first place about how God supposedly works, that may be because God is drawing him/her. It's not necessarily bad if that interest entails a lot of sharp criticism and even antagonism. That's better than nothing (coming from the perspective of hoping to see God's truth revealed in someone's heart).

 

"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:35-44

 

If someone is effectually seeking God that's because God is working in his heart and drawing him. "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Romans 8:30 ('glorified'- a nature fully out of bondage to sin, not becoming a God, for the record).

 

It is available to everyone who wants in. By our nature, without God stepping in, we don't truly want in though. We don't think we're that bad, even those among us tending to be more cynical about human nature. Some conviction (counter our nature) happens before we want in.

[Savage Beast 1]

Not really.

 

Who is 'us/we'? I was always taught that redemption through Jesus was available to everybody who wants in. It seems Savage Beast's god has a list and if you're not on that list, don't bother applying, you can't get on it. Even people who want to be godly can forget it, God doesn't want them.

 

Were the 1st century High Priest Pharisees, Sadducees, Judas, Pharaoh etc.... doomed from the beginning due to God hardening their hearts on purpose? Yes or no? Did both John the baptist and Christ himself tell them they were not of Abraham right to their faces, and that they would be cast into the darkness? Did Christ die for them, or did Christ die for his own sheep? Did Christ also die for the goats? What does the Bible say about it? It says the goats were doomed from the beginning. And the sheep know their masters voice, so when he knocks on the door of their heart, the open it wide up and let their master shepherd in.

 

Did God choose Noah from amongst the evil Middle Eastern world, and only spare him and his family from the flood? Yes or no? When all of the drowning people who were not allowed in the ark who cried out to God, live? Yes or no? Did God not select a few people to save, and destroy the rest? Yes or no? Same with Abraham's nephew Lot in Sodom and Gamorrah. He chose to spare Lot and his family(until Lot's wife disobeyed God), and destroyed the rest of the people in those cities. God smites people constantly all throughout the entire Bible, and they all had it coming. It was righteous justice being served on those wicked sinning bast@rds. None of them deserved to be spared. But since God is also loving and full of grace, he chooses to save some, even though they are sinners as well who deserve God's righteous justice to be dealt out on them. The entire theme of the Bible from Genesis-Revelation deals with God choosing a few among the many to bless and save and call his people, while the rest of the people are dealt out the righteous justice we all deserve. Universal salvation can not be found in one book of the Bible. The many always perish, while the few are spared, in order that God is glorified and worshiped by his chosen people in the process. Which proves he is the LIVING GOD. Universal salvation can't prove the existence of the LIVING GOD, but selective salvation sure can. It proves that Christ is the LIVING GOD, and the rest of the false gods like Allah(Muslims), Thor, Zeus, Baal, Re the sun god, Joseph Smith's heavenly father, L. Ron Hubbard's false gods, the Watch Tower's(Jehovah's witness) false gods, the atheist's and agnostic's man as being their own gods, etc..... are all false, and lead to destruction.

[Voltaire 5,317]

I realize according to you, he's the only game in town. But why do you worship a god of purest evil?

[penultimatestraw 473]

The many always perish, while the few are spared, in order that God is glorified and worshiped by his chosen people in the process. Which proves he is the LIVING GOD. Universal salvation can't prove the existence of the LIVING GOD, but selective salvation sure can. It proves that Christ is the LIVING GOD, and the rest of the false gods like Allah(Muslims), Thor, Zeus, Baal, Re the sun god, Joseph Smith's heavenly father, L. Ron Hubbard's false gods, the Watch Tower's(Jehovah's witness) false gods, the atheist's and agnostic's man as being their own gods, etc..... are all false, and lead to destruction.

How does this prove anything, other than God's need for adulation? Why would an entity so powerful desire worship from the flawed, sinful flock? If the non-chosen are set in their fate, why encourage the chosen to proselytize them?

 

Being selective about salvation isn't the exclusive providence of Christianity either. Many other religions are discriminatory, too.

[Voltaire 5,317]

 

 

Being selective about salvation isn't the exclusive providence of Christianity either. Many other religions are discriminatory, too.

 

I'd heard that mainstream Christianity was in decline and evangelicalism was on the rise but frankly I didn't care since I'm not a Christian. Still, I hadn't realized the ramifications of how seriously destructive that trend was to until now. It's sad how the comforting lie about the loving God is being sh*tcanned.

 

It's repulsive that this worshiping of a vengeful evil God is what masquerades as Christianity nowadays. But it does illuminate clearly why Evangelicals don't give a fock about anybody but themselves.

[frank 2,307]

Why would an entity so powerful desire worship from the flawed, sinful flock?

 

I just like it when you guys like my posts.

[FeelingMN 273]

These six states in America constitutionally ban atheists from holding public office:

Arkansas:

"No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court."[77]

Maryland:

"That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.”[78]

Mississippi:

"No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state."[79]

South Carolina:

"No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."[80]

Tennessee:

"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."[81]

Texas:

"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."[82]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists#United_States

 

 

[naomi 356]

I'd heard that mainstream Christianity was in decline and evangelicalism was on the rise but frankly I didn't care since I'm not a Christian. Still, I hadn't realized the ramifications of how seriously destructive that trend was to until now. It's sad how the comforting lie about the loving God is being sh*tcanned.

 

It's repulsive that this worshiping of a vengeful evil God is what masquerades as Christianity nowadays. But it does illuminate clearly why Evangelicals don't give a fock about anybody but themselves.

 

 

I think the word Evangelicalism carries with it different ideas (in the U.S. at least) than in times past. It used to basically connote Protestantism.

 

A genuine evangelical worldview is becoming less and less popular in America, and when it does still get expressed in civil forums, it's taken as a distinct push against progressivism. Like it's a new thing, not the remains of what used to be a very familiar worldview hanging in there. It's a new, energized struggle. It's the injection of controversy. Thinking/morality that is the product of worldviews with modern appeal manages (naturally) to dodge being perceived that way.

 

That's going on, but then there also is a religious right movement that courts the label (evangelical), and seems to think/uses the idea that the Christian righteousness of a people can be determined by policy. That idea wouldn't be considered an application of sound biblical discernment, by an evangelical from times past. That's not the arena they get impassioned about dealing in. It was simply preaching the gospel. The Great Awakening would be like a time (technically times) of significant (numbers wise) impact, in the evangelical book. It did have political impact, as a result of being popular on the ground and thus the will of the people. That wasn't the aim. With the idea of evangelical today, you would think certain people getting elected to office, laws getting passed, reforms happening, alliances strengthening, etc., would represent success.

 

It's a wrong preoccupation to have (if selling it as Christianity in action)...plus it's definitely not going to work. But what's interesting is that the period of the Great Awakening produced political philosophy that maximized liberty. There was a great sense of the importance of self-government at the same time, and a lot of increasingly unpopular morality now was just assumed to be intrinsic to that self-government then.

[Voltaire 5,317]

But what's interesting is that the period of the Great Awakening produced political philosophy that maximized liberty.

I'd like you to explain this. There's been a few Awakenings but it seems to me that maximizing liberty would remain the province of the founders circa 1770s-80s.

[Frank M 181]

Were the 1st century High Priest Pharisees, Sadducees, Judas, Pharaoh etc.... doomed from the beginning due to God hardening their hearts on purpose? Yes or no? Did both John the baptist and Christ himself tell them they were not of Abraham right to their faces, and that they would be cast into the darkness? Did Christ die for them, or did Christ die for his own sheep? Did Christ also die for the goats? What does the Bible say about it? It says the goats were doomed from the beginning. And the sheep know their masters voice, so when he knocks on the door of their heart, the open it wide up and let their master shepherd in.

 

Did God choose Noah from amongst the evil Middle Eastern world, and only spare him and his family from the flood? Yes or no? When all of the drowning people who were not allowed in the ark who cried out to God, live? Yes or no? Did God not select a few people to save, and destroy the rest? Yes or no? Same with Abraham's nephew Lot in Sodom and Gamorrah. He chose to spare Lot and his family(until Lot's wife disobeyed God), and destroyed the rest of the people in those cities. God smites people constantly all throughout the entire Bible, and they all had it coming. It was righteous justice being served on those wicked sinning bast@rds. None of them deserved to be spared. But since God is also loving and full of grace, he chooses to save some, even though they are sinners as well who deserve God's righteous justice to be dealt out on them. The entire theme of the Bible from Genesis-Revelation deals with God choosing a few among the many to bless and save and call his people, while the rest of the people are dealt out the righteous justice we all deserve. Universal salvation can not be found in one book of the Bible. The many always perish, while the few are spared, in order that God is glorified and worshiped by his chosen people in the process. Which proves he is the LIVING GOD. Universal salvation can't prove the existence of the LIVING GOD, but selective salvation sure can. It proves that Christ is the LIVING GOD, and the rest of the false gods like Allah(Muslims), Thor, Zeus, Baal, Re the sun god, Joseph Smith's heavenly father, L. Ron Hubbard's false gods, the Watch Tower's(Jehovah's witness) false gods, the atheist's and agnostic's man as being their own gods, etc..... are all false, and lead to destruction.

 

Of all the half-baked BS in the Bible, these fairy tales are the ones you choose to make your point?

[Voltaire 5,317]

Of all the half-baked BS in the Bible, these fairy tales are the ones you choose to make your point?

What he likes most about the entity he worships is it's frequent use of mass genoicide.

[naomi 356]

I'd like you to explain this. There's been a few Awakenings but it seems to me that maximizing liberty would remain the province of the founders circa 1770s-80s.

 

The establishment of the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom is a good example. How it evolved and who supported it within the populace

 

One of the core gospel principles that thundered out during that time is what we've gotten into a lot in this thread- faith in God is a result of grace alone. You're not beholden to man's systems to validate how to properly secure salvation. It's secured in Christ. (That's also why you don't find a model for a universal church, with a human hierarchy, in the bible. What you find instead is models for local autonomous assemblies). That wasn't a new doctrine within Christendom by any means, but rejection/suppression of it has been popular over the ages, and conducive to state sanctioned religion.

 

There had been oppressed people with that regard of the gospel in Britain prior to the awakenings. Having that doctrine asserted on the level it was able to be impacted enough of the culture that settled here, that the direction we went with religious freedom resonated as the way to go. 'Liberty of conscious' was extremely meaningful. That's how people who we note as evangelical and politics originally mixed.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I just like it when you guys like my posts.

I said omnipotent, not impotent.

[Voltaire 5,317]

The establishment of the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom is a good example. How it evolved and who supported it within the populace

 

One of the core gospel principles that thundered out during that time is what we've gotten into a lot in this thread- faith in God is a result of grace alone. You're not beholden to man's systems to validate how to properly secure salvation. It's secured in Christ. (That's also why you don't find a model for a universal church, with a human hierarchy, in the bible. What you find instead is models for local autonomous assemblies). That wasn't a new doctrine within Christendom by any means, but rejection/suppression of it has been popular over the ages, and conducive to state sanctioned religion.

 

There had been oppressed people with that regard of the gospel in Britain prior to the awakenings. Having that doctrine asserted on the level it was able to be impacted enough of the culture that settled here, that the direction we went with religious freedom resonated as the way to go. 'Liberty of conscious' was extremely meaningful. That's how people who we note as evangelical and politics originally mixed.

 

I worried that you were misinformed. This is not a result of the Great Awakening. Jefferson and Madison were in no way a part of that. It was over long before their time. Cutting off control of religious authorities over political authorities and cutting off state sponsorship of certain churches is the founding generations reaction to overreach from the (first) Great Awakening.

 

As to the specific belief systems that were prevalent at that time, I am not an expert. As you can imagine, I've little interest in looking at religious history too closely. But my understanding is that there was very much more similarity between the Catholic Church and the Anglican church then there was between the Anglicans and the Evangelicals. Meanwhile in New England by the late 18th century, there was a great split between the Congregationalists and the Unitarians but neither of them by that time had any similarity to hellfire and damnation of Cotton Mather and the witch trials which had been a great stain on New England's thoroughly rejected by that time.

 

Johnathan Edwards' angry God religion (which is the same as Savage Beast's from what I can tell) was rejected by mainstream religious leaders of the time pretty. He was excommunicated and pretty much ignored throughout the country by the time he died. These Great Awakening guys were marginalized by the time of the Revolution.

[Gepetto 1,368]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther