Atheists

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Oh look....a political thread!

 

Yeah!

 

I don't think it's that political.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Can we the Geeks start a religion? And call it the "Who the fock knows?" religion. Yes thats the name.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Can we the Geeks start a religion? And call it the "Who the fock knows?" religion. Yes that the name.

 

Probably want to come up with a more sophisticated name, but I like the concept.

 

I'm tired of people of all stripes who claim they KNOW about God, and Creation, and the Afterlife.Especially as it is so often an unwashed redneck dooshbag who doesn't know ANYTHING else, but has pompous certainty that he has unlocked the mysteries of the universe, which so often require him to be an intolerant, pompous, hypocritical pr!ck.

 

I like the religions like Bhuddism that are about the journey. That's what spirituality is... a journey, not a destination you can plop your fat ignorant ass in and be superior to everyone.

 

I've often thought about checking out the Bhuddist temple here in Nashville, but never have. It is a 35 mile drive one way, and I've just never bothered.

[OilFieldTrash 0]

No one can know and I don't think anyone will ever know, it's more a faith that what you believe in is true. There is no right or wrong in what you believe. If there was, there wouldn't be multiple religions.

[Mookz 1,349]

Does the Pope go to church ?

Do altar boys?

 

Probably want to come up with a more sophisticated name, but I like the concept.

 

I'm tired of people of all stripes who claim they KNOW about God, and Creation, and the Afterlife.Especially as it is so often an unwashed redneck dooshbag who doesn't know ANYTHING else, but has pompous certainty that he has unlocked the mysteries of the universe, which so often require him to be an intolerant, pompous, hypocritical pr!ck.

 

I like the religions like Bhuddism that are about the journey. That's what spirituality is... a journey, not a destination you can plop your fat ignorant ass in and be superior to everyone.

 

I've often thought about checking out the Bhuddist temple here in Nashville, but never have. It is a 35 mile drive one way, and I've just never bothered.

That is a long way to go for total spiritual peace and enlightenment.

[penultimatestraw 473]

It means atheists are absurdly arrogant over what is essentially just an opinion.

Russell's Teapot - proving something doesn't exist, especially something with an infinite number of permutations, is an exercise in futility.

[GobbleDog 997]

All living organisms are made of cells.

Cells are made of molecules.

Molecules are made of atoms.

Atoms are made of electrons and protons.

 

We are basically a walking bag of electrons and protons obeying the laws of physics. Souls, god, free will?

 

I think not.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Yes, there is. If push comes to shove I probably lean toward atheism too but when you look at the complexity of organisms or even symmetries in a grain of sand I can see why some people interpret that as intelligent design.

 

A belief in the Trix rabbit has no supporting evidence at all - you're overstating your case.

An argument from ignorance, the basis of the "intelligent design" concept.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

All living organisms are made of cells.

Cells are made of molecules.

Molecules are made of atoms.

Atoms are made of electrons and protons.

 

We are basically a walking bag of electrons and protons obeying the laws of physics. Souls, god, free will?

 

I think not.

 

Where'd the electrons and protons come from?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Where'd the electrons and protons come from?

The same place as God, only smaller.

[GobbleDog 997]

There is no right or wrong in what you believe. If there was, there wouldn't be multiple religions.

Well somebody's wrong - the atheists, christians, mulsims, jews, hindus, budhists, etc... There's either a supernatural being or there ain't.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

That is a long way to go for total spiritual peace and enlightenment.

 

Yeah. I guess I'm a very lazy spirtual traveler.

[GobbleDog 997]

Where'd the electrons and protons come from?

I've had this discussion before.

 

Me: Atoms came from the big bang.

Them: What made the big bang?

Me: Don't know but I've heard other universes colliding or something weird like that.

Them: Ok, what made the other universes?

Me: I see where you're going with this and the answer is ... stuff (protons/electrons/photons/etc.) have always existed. Universes making universes for eternity.

Them: That's ridiculous!

Me: Ok, where did it all come from?

Them: God

Me: And where did God come from?

Them: Oh, he's always existed.

 

 

It's amazing to me that when we get to that point in the debate, they have no problem believing supernatural beings have always existed, but the thought of actual stuff always existing is "ridiculous".?.

[naomi 356]

That's what spirituality is... a journey, not a destination you can plop your fat ignorant ass in and be superior to everyone.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,447]

You know what I love about athesists???????????????????????????????????? They only care about themselves. They are the chick that tells you how stoopid you are for loving them. Arrogant and full of themselves they are. They then tell you how stoopid you are for believing in anything and then do nothing to promote their ideas other than to say how dumb you may be for believing.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

I've had this discussion before.

 

Me: Atoms came from the big bang.

Them: What made the big bang?

Me: Don't know but I've heard other universes colliding or something weird like that.

Them: Ok, what made the other universes?

Me: I see where you're going with this and the answer is ... stuff (protons/electrons/photons/etc.) have always existed. Universes making universes for eternity.

Them: That's ridiculous!

Me: Ok, where did it all come from?

Them: God

Me: And where did God come from?

Them: Oh, he's always existed.

 

 

It's amazing to me that when we get to that point in the debate, they have no problem believing supernatural beings have always existed, but the thought of actual stuff always existing is "ridiculous".?.

 

Hmm...that's a good point. But existence had to start somewhere, and in a way it almost makes MORE sense to believe that existence started from some sort of supernatural force rather than just that existence was always there.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Hmm...that's a good point. But existence had to start somewhere, and in a way it almost makes MORE sense to believe that existence started from some sort of supernatural force rather than just that existence was always there.

Why does it need to start somewhere - perhaps it is circular, or just something so complex our feeble minds cannot comprehend it?

 

And I agree with Gobbledog that it is no more sensible that a supernatural being is eternal.

[penultimatestraw 473]

You know what I love about athesists???????????????????????????????????? They only care about themselves. They are the chick that tells you how stoopid you are for loving them. Arrogant and full of themselves they are. They then tell you how stoopid you are for believing in anything and then do nothing to promote their ideas other than to say how dumb you may be for believing.

Atheists are no more selfish than their religious brethren. If I tell you I disbelieve in the existence of a god(s), in favor of a godless worldview, how can my opinion not be insulting to your beliefs? Clever how many religions hold disbelievers in such contempt, as it propagates their version of right.

 

Although I think religion is a very personal and private choice, how do you suggest atheists promote their ideas?

[BunnysBastatrds 2,447]

Atheists are no more selfish than their religious brethren. If I tell you I disbelieve in the existence of a god(s), in favor of a godless worldview, how can my opinion not be insulting to your beliefs? Clever how many religions hold disbelievers in such contempt, as it propagates their version of right.

 

Although I think religion is a very personal and private choice, how do you suggest atheists promote their ideas?

 

 

How much money or time do you give to charity? And don't tell me that time or money is only charitable in religous eyes. Seriously. Every person I know that is a nonbeliever gives zero time to anybody but themselves.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Why does it need to start somewhere - perhaps it is circular, or just something so complex our feeble minds cannot comprehend it?

 

And I agree with Gobbledog that it is no more sensible that a supernatural being is eternal.

 

I had considered that possibility. We perceive time as linear but perhaps it isn't.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

How much money or time do you give to charity? And don't tell me that time or money is only charitable in religous eyes. Seriously. Every person I know that is a nonbeliever gives zero time to anybody but themselves.

 

Not very many religious people give to charity either. At least that has been my experience.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,447]

I had considered that possibility. We perceive time as linear but perhaps it isn't.

 

 

What happens when IGW bears his last breath?

[IGotWorms 4,058]

What happens when IGW bears his last breath?

 

I don't know. How could anyone know?

 

I'm probably just dead for eternity, which is kind of a bummer.

[penultimatestraw 473]

How much money or time do you give to charity? And don't tell me that time or money is only charitable in religous eyes. Seriously. Every person I know that is a nonbeliever gives zero time to anybody but themselves.

I ran a clinic that was almost entirely charity care. I currently treat patients regardless of their ability to pay, including the uninsured. I gave hundreds to $1000+ to three charities last year. I'm probably gonna do Doctors without Borders or Peace Corps in the next couple years.

 

Most of the atheists I know are thoughtful, selfless people - one doesn't need fear eternal damnation to do the right thing.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I don't know. How could anyone know?

 

I'm probably just dead for eternity, which is kind of a bummer.

No it's not! This makes life that much more precious. Why is life important if the afterlife is eternal?

[OilFieldTrash 0]

Well somebody's wrong - the atheists, christians, mulsims, jews, hindus, budhists, etc... There's either a supernatural being or there ain't.

 

Why can't their be a supernatural being that came into existence after the big bang? Maybe one that isnt as involved with us as some of these religions believe or even involved with us at all. Maybe didn't create us and we evolved but still something out there? No one can say for sure

[MDC 7,458]

An argument from ignorance, the basis of the "intelligent design" concept.

 

Well if you say so I guess that closes the door on the debate.

[Reality 3,121]

Well if you say so I guess that closes the door on the debate.

 

 

 

I need to have him talk to my wife, I said it so it's true..

[Blitzen 0]

I had considered that possibility. We perceive time as linear but perhaps it isn't.

 

We perceive it as linear but nothing in physics says it is - in fact quite the opposite. What is linear is entropy. People who buy into ID need to read up on M Theory a bit. Based on what is understood right now, it is thought that there are about 500 different sets of possible laws of physics that could be applied to various universes. The fact that we popped up in the universe that had life-friendly laws of physics isn't ID, it's that life would not pop up in universes that have life-unfriendly laws.

[MedStudent 56]

How much money or time do you give to charity? And don't tell me that time or money is only charitable in religous eyes. Seriously. Every person I know that is a nonbeliever gives zero time to anybody but themselves.

 

I'm not sure if a non believer is automatically classified as an athiest but I have given plenty of time to charity. I've spent thanksgiving serving the poor. I actually paid money to go on a medical mission to ecuador and I intend to go on more medicaal missions in the future once I get surgical experience. Most of the money the christians give to charity go to their churches. Some of these churches build these monstrocities to feed their own ego's. God knows why they are considered a charity and exempt from taxes. Its more of a tax shelter than a charity.

[Blitzen 0]

I'm not sure if a non believer is automatically classified as an athiest but I have given plenty of time to charity. I've spent thanksgiving serving the poor. I actually paid money to go on a medical mission to ecuador and I intend to go on more medicaal missions in the future once I get surgical experience. Most of the money the christians give to charity go to their churches. Some of these churches build these monstrocities to feed their own ego's. God knows why they are considered a charity and exempt from taxes. Its more of a tax shelter than a charity.

 

That's the part I find ridiculous: If you're a non-believer, you're immediately labelled as someone without any values. I find that particularly funny coming from people whose Church harbours known pedophiles and presents itself as the defenders of morals.

 

That being said, that atheist billboard is just 100% stoopid. It has zero chance of having any influence in the campaign.

[gemynd 0]

How much money or time do you give to charity? And don't tell me that time or money is only charitable in religous eyes. Seriously. Every person I know that is a nonbeliever gives zero time to anybody but themselves.

 

I don't think it's necessarily a factor how religious someone is when it comes to charity. I'm an atheist and I've donated time and money to various charities and continue to do so. I would like to think that most people are charitable because they wish to help others out rather then simply avoid some perceived afterlife. Theists who are charitable now would probably still be charitable even if at some later point they become atheists. Of course, there are exceptions.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Well if you say so I guess that closes the door on the debate.

Not sure if you've ever heard of the concept, but it is a type of logical fallacy. It states something must be true because it hasn't been proven false. So one perceives life's complexity to be "designed"; just because nonbelievers cannot disprove this, believers assume the presence of a creator. In reality we don't know, and may not ever be able to know. Restated in more general terms, the inability to disprove the existence of God is not proof of her existence. Nor is being unable to explain every natural phenomena.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Not sure if you've ever heard of the concept, but it is a type of logical fallacy. It states something must be true because it hasn't been proven false. So one perceives life's complexity to be "designed"; just because nonbelievers cannot disprove this, believers assume the presence of a creator. In reality we don't know, and may not ever be able to know. Restated in more general terms, the inability to disprove the existence of God is not proof of her existence. Nor is being unable to explain every natural phenomena.

 

Well that could be thrown right back at you, couldn't it? You believe there is no God because people can't prove that there is.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

No it's not! This makes life that much more precious. Why is life important if the afterlife is eternal?

 

Is this what you tell patients who are dying young from terminal illnesses? "Sorry buddy, there is no after life. Life is all about the living, but sadly you got shafted."

 

Serious question, not hyperbole. I'm curious what your response is to that?

[MDC 7,458]

Not sure if you've ever heard of the concept, but it is a type of logical fallacy. It states something must be true because it hasn't been proven false. So one perceives life's complexity to be "designed"; just because nonbelievers cannot disprove this, believers assume the presence of a creator. In reality we don't know, and may not ever be able to know. Restated in more general terms, the inability to disprove the existence of God is not proof of her existence. Nor is being unable to explain every natural phenomena.

 

I never said it's true or that the appearance of intelligent design means there is a God. I am saying that the appearance of intelligent design makes the idea of a creator more plausible than the belief that the Twix rabbit lives on Pluto, which doesn't even have a philosophical basis.

 

"Restated in more general terms, the inability to disprove the existence of God is not proof of her existence."

 

I never said it did.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I never said it's true or that the appearance of intelligent design means there is a God. I am saying that the appearance of intelligent design makes the idea of a creator more plausible than the belief that the Twix rabbit lives on Pluto, which doesn't even have a philosophical basis.

 

"Restated in more general terms, the inability to disprove the existence of God is not proof of her existence."

 

I never said it did.

Fair enough, though I think both a creator and Plutonian Twix are very implausible.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Well that could be thrown right back at you, couldn't it? You believe there is no God because people can't prove that there is.

There are scientific explanations for many natural phenomena. One can always reply that science itself is the handiwork of a supreme being, but I prefer to base my beliefs on reproducible, testable hypotheses. The presence or absence of God isn't readily tested, of course, but every time science disproves supernatural rhetoric the whole concept that religion is non-factual becomes more likely.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

There are scientific explanations for many natural phenomena. One can always reply that science itself is the handiwork of a supreme being, but I prefer to base my beliefs on reproducible, testable hypotheses. The presence or absence of God isn't readily tested, of course, but every time science disproves supernatural rhetoric the likelihood the whole concept of religion is non-factual becomes more likely.

 

Isn't it the very basis of the scientific method that nothing can ever be truly 100% proven? Everything is a hypothesis, some much more likely than others, but in the end we could conceivably be wrong about just about damn near everything.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

From Naomi's link...

 

Now Christians have been known to be proud ....plenty of us. There are lots of arrogant Christians. But if you read the Bible, you see that Christians ought not to be arrogant. Arrogant Christians are betraying Christianity. And when we're arrogant, we're not believing the gospel. We're not being Biblical. But, ultimately, to hold a relativistic point of view, you have to turn the question back on yourself and doubt your own doubts and say, "Why aren't the relativists' religious beliefs arrogant?

 

Because the relativists admit that they do not know. The Chtistians, Muslims, Jews, and every other religion claim with absolute certainty that they DO know, to the point where they attempt to force their beliefs on others.

 

That is why one is arrogant, and the other is not.

 

I have bounced back and forth in my life... for much of my youth, I was a devout Christian. I later became a flaming athiest. I then attempted more than once to believe in Christianity again (mostly for domestic peace with various women). I couldn't put the genie back in the bottle... I knew too much of the history of the early church, and quite frankly, the logical inconsistencies of Christianity could not be overcome in my mind.

 

I have come to peace with the fact that I do not know the nature of God. I like to believe there is one, but I have no real basis for that belief. I have come to the conclusion that God DOES NOT WANT us to know his exact nature. There is no valid dogma. There is no magic book. We are supposed to make our own journey and try to be good people. If that is not enough when I meet the almighty, I will stand before him knowing I did the best I could.