The Moz 71 Posted June 5, 2013 Yes it's a bigoted viewpoint, because you are making negative assumptions about an entire race of people. So it is racist IYO to just be honest and tell it like it is. Yes I am making assumptions about Africans but that doesn't mean they aren't pretty well founded by their actions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 2,537 Posted June 5, 2013 Yes it's a bigoted viewpoint, because you are making negative assumptions about an entire race of people. I missed where he made assumptions "about an entire race of people". I read it as a large number of people within a certain race. You're a smart guy Doc. Should we keep ignoring the problem? Should we allow the woman and children to suffer at the hands of the men? She we continue down this path that gets worse and worse every generation? Or should we man up and seriously address the problem and stop worrying about hurting peoples feeling and pride. This problem affects us all. Time to step up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted June 5, 2013 Yes it's a bigoted viewpoint, because you are making negative assumptions about an entire race of people. Are you sure you are not a Worms alias made up so he could pretend to be a Dr.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 71 Posted June 5, 2013 I missed where he made assumptions "about an entire race of people". I read it as a large number of people within a certain race. You're a smart guy Doc. Should we keep ignoring the problem? Should we allow the woman and children to suffer at the hands of the men? She we continue down this path that gets worse and worse every generation? Or should we man up and seriously address the problem and stop worrying about hurting peoples feeling and pride. This problem affects us all. Time to step up. IMO the #1 reason I think the Liberals are indeed the most racist of all. As to protect the PC voice by not ever facing the problem head on to avoid offending someone -- they let the good black folks live in fear of the bad ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 71 Posted June 5, 2013 Are you sure you are not a Worms alias made up so he could pretend to be a Dr.? Worms is a Doctor and a Lawyer. If he can't catch the Ambulance he gets em in the operating room. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electric Mayhem 35 Posted June 5, 2013 You are all trying to validate your racism with statistics, and patting each other on the back for being so forward thinking. Congrats, now you can put a "I'm Science-y!" patch on your pointed white hats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 71 Posted June 5, 2013 You are all trying to validate your racism with statistics, and patting each other on the back for being so forward thinking. Congrats, now you can put a "I'm Science-y!" patch on your pointed white hats. Hey Dumbass -- it would go on the left sleeve Why try to validate any theory with statistics when it's obviously so much better to just act like everything is fine, revel in ignorance, and continue to be sure to watch whatever you say as you might offend people. Even if what you are saying is so focking blatantly obvious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,388 Posted June 5, 2013 Uncle Racist: Do ya'll little bastards even know what a spade is? It's a n***er you dumbass's. You were a bastard before you became a bastatrd? How do you graduate to the higher level? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casual Observer 597 Posted June 5, 2013 Okay I will Compare say Harlan KY with Gary Indiana. Seriously do I really need to give stat comparisons there? What about (pick a poor ass county in KY,WV, or TN) and compare it to East ST. Louis any need for stats there sparky? Hell pick the worst all white area in the country and copare it to either Gary or E. STL and tell me if you even need stats? Hence why the comparison you are saying you want has no merit. The only way their is merit is in a comparison where you compare 2 ethnic group living in the same environment , around the same population , and basically the same poverty level. HENCE my logical comparison of Blacks and Hispanics in NYC -- the one place that meets all this criteria to make a valid comparison. I don't think you do, but comparing poor minority to poor minority leaves poor and minority. You will then have, as people have already said, people emphasizing the poor aspect as the driver of minority violent crime. Bring a comparison of poor whites in and maybe we can drop the poverty component of the equation out (which would support your initial observation of some inherent violent quality). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 2,537 Posted June 5, 2013 You were a bastard before you became a bastatrd? How do you graduate to the higher level? I spaded a grade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 71 Posted June 5, 2013 I spaded a grade. I always knew you were a damn Spade Bunny! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 71 Posted June 5, 2013 Take a Fat person for Ex. Is it better for a Fat person to A. Have help via - someone confronting him and saying dude you are too over weight and you need help. Let's figure out what problem is here and try to get things better under control. B. You're not fat you are just Big boned! Be fat an proud! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recliner Pilot 61 Posted June 5, 2013 Hey Dumbass -- it would go on the left sleeve Why try to validate any theory with statistics when it's obviously so much better to just act like everything is fine, revel in ignorance, and continue to be sure to watch whatever you say as you might offend people. Even if what you are saying is so focking blatantly obvious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldMaid 2,134 Posted June 5, 2013 Which is being disproved -- when Hispanics are more numerous , start out just as poor , and yet commit maybe 1/3 of the crime that blacks do. Yeah maybe Hispanic better their situations by more actively seeking employment and taking better care of their hoods. You sir, have obviously never been to SoCal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted June 5, 2013 Take a Fat person for Ex. Is it better for a Fat person to A. Have help via - someone confronting him and saying dude you are too over weight and you need help. Let's figure out what problem is here and try to get things better under control. B. You're not fat you are just Big boned! Be fat an proud! Interesting analogy. If you heard a certain race had a higher incidence of obesity, would you automatically attribute it to genetics? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cdub100 3,979 Posted June 5, 2013 Okay I will Compare say Harlan KY with Gary Indiana. Seriously do I really need to give stat comparisons there? What about (pick a poor ass county in KY,WV, or TN) and compare it to East ST. Louis any need for stats there sparky? Hell pick the worst all white area in the country and copare it to either Gary or E. STL and tell me if you even need stats? Hence why the comparison you are saying you want has no merit. The only way their is merit is in a comparison where you compare 2 ethnic group living in the same environment , around the same population , and basically the same poverty level. HENCE my logical comparison of Blacks and Hispanics in NYC -- the one place that meets all this criteria to make a valid comparison. Take a look at Metro Detroit which is very segregated. You could find nice little pockets of race living in the same general area under the same social economic conditions. I also believe Black and especially black males are more prone to violence and frankly are not as smart as most other races. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electric Mayhem 35 Posted June 5, 2013 Hey Dumbass -- it would go on the left sleeve Yeah I was going to try to work it into the actual body part, but I couldn't quite do it with the same impact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,388 Posted June 5, 2013 Yes. It's absolutly, irrevocably racist to make these observations. The rules are very clearly expressed in the handbook. Analyzing this data, and connecting these dots is totally forbidden. Many posters in this thread have violated well known rules of PC protocol and our office revokes all the non-racist cards we've issued to each of you. You are all now and forevermore racists and may God have mercy on your souls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 5, 2013 No I want to take a look at as close to a poor all-white area as I can find and see what that group's violent crime behavior is. So no, I don't want proportional. I thought I made that clear. Your second sentence has it right. Let's put the questions another way: Do poor whites commit violent crime at the same rate as poor black and hispanic minorities? If the answer is no and the poor white violent crime rate is lower than the minority violent crime rate, then can we eliminate poverty as a motivator or excuse for violent crime? No you cannot, if there are covariates associated with high crime in predominantly black areas. Ex. Urban crowding may promote more crime than less crowded country areas occupied by poor Whites. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 5, 2013 But PS, therein lies the flaw. - And why we've made so little progress. You can't talk about any ethnic and/or cultural group without making some kind of generalizations. Hell, to take it further, you can't do so about virtually any population - a population of fruit, baseball pitchers, animal crackers, - you name it. ...Because invariably somebody will say "They're NOT ALL LIKE THAT!!!" Well of course not, but if 99% of Redheads carried HPV virus, would it be 'racist' to recommend all progeny of redheads recieve the HPV vaccine? I think addressing violent urban culture, poverty, education, etc. without labeling it a "black problem" accomplishes the same goal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 5, 2013 I missed where he made assumptions "about an entire race of people". I read it as a large number of people within a certain race. You're a smart guy Doc. Should we keep ignoring the problem? Should we allow the woman and children to suffer at the hands of the men? She we continue down this path that gets worse and worse every generation? Or should we man up and seriously address the problem and stop worrying about hurting peoples feeling and pride. This problem affects us all. Time to step up. You missed this statement? Can it be racist to call Blacks (Africans) a Violent people by nature? The answer to your other questions is 'no'. But categorizing violence as an inherent quality of the Black race does nothing to address those problems, and arguably worsens any attempt to improve them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 5, 2013 So it is racist IYO to just be honest and tell it like it is. Yes I am making assumptions about Africans but that doesn't mean they aren't pretty well founded by their actions. Do you think the majority of African Americans are violent? Criminals? Would someone who holds those beliefs modify the way they treat/act around Blacks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 5, 2013 Hey Dumbass -- it would go on the left sleeve Why try to validate any theory with statistics when it's obviously so much better to just act like everything is fine, revel in ignorance, and continue to be sure to watch whatever you say as you might offend people. Even if what you are saying is so focking blatantly obvious. I missed the part where those with a liberal ideology ignore problems with crime? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 5, 2013 I don't think you do, but comparing poor minority to poor minority leaves poor and minority. You will then have, as people have already said, people emphasizing the poor aspect as the driver of minority violent crime. Bring a comparison of poor whites in and maybe we can drop the poverty component of the equation out (which would support your initial observation of some inherent violent quality). You sure you're considering all variables? What about interactions between variables? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted June 5, 2013 In the Great Society no one is responsible for their own actions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,433 Posted June 6, 2013 In the Great Society no one is responsible for their own actions. ... including bigotry. I now Christen you, Archie Bunker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,960 Posted June 6, 2013 You missed this statement? The answer to your other questions is 'no'. But categorizing violence as an inherent quality of the Black race does nothing to address those problems, and arguably worsens any attempt to improve them. I was going to quote that from the OP. We can't say it is a genetic thing; most likely a cultural thing. But... I also believe Black and especially black males are more prone to violence and frankly are not as smart as most other races. ... it's possible. From an evolutionary perspective, success in Africa was (and in many parts still is) determined by physical prowess and aggression, whereas Europe became all intellectual and lazy and shiot a millenium ago. And the inner city black culture is doing nothing to change that. Of course we can't even consider this possibility, because it is so racist to consider it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casual Observer 597 Posted June 6, 2013 No you cannot, if there are covariates associated with high crime in predominantly black areas. Ex. Urban crowding may promote more crime than less crowded country areas occupied by poor Whites. Number one, that's why you'd take a look at rates. You could multiply up or down based on population. Two, how would crowding explain increased criminality outside of lack of impulse control? So many more people, so many more to victimize? This would support Moz's initial premise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casual Observer 597 Posted June 6, 2013 You sure you're considering all variables? What about interactions between variables? What variables would those be and how would they interact? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 6, 2013 I was going to quote that from the OP. We can't say it is a genetic thing; most likely a cultural thing. But... ... it's possible. From an evolutionary perspective, success in Africa was (and in many parts still is) determined by physical prowess and aggression, whereas Europe became all intellectual and lazy and shiot a millenium ago. And the inner city black culture is doing nothing to change that. Of course we can't even consider this possibility, because it is so racist to consider it. Human evolution is not significant for most traits over such a short period (hundreds of years). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 6, 2013 What variables would those be and how would they interact? I don't know - education, presence of intact parental unit, availability of jobs/recreational activity, community support and financial resources all come to mind. My point is, it isn't simply about race and it is difficult to evaluate race's role in a vacuum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,060 Posted June 6, 2013 You are all trying to validate your racism with statistics, and patting each other on the back for being so forward thinking. Congrats, now you can put a "I'm Science-y!" patch on your pointed white hats. This guy gets it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 6, 2013 Number one, that's why you'd take a look at rates. You could multiply up or down based on population. Two, how would crowding explain increased criminality outside of lack of impulse control? So many more people, so many more to victimize? This would support Moz's initial premise. See my post above. As to number 2, it is a well described phenomenon: Title: Household Crowding and Aggregate Crime Rates Journal: Journal of Crime and Justice Volume:23 Issue:1 Dated:2000 Pages:47 to 64 Author(s): Steven E. Barkan Editor(s): J. Mitchell Miller Date Published: 2000 Page Count: 18 Type: Report (Study/Research) Language: English Country: United States of America Annotation: Recognizing few systematic studies have tested the effects of household crowding on crime rates, this study examined such effects in the Standard Metropolitan Statistical Areas (SMSAs) and counties of the United States. Abstract: Data were obtained from U.S. Census compilations that included Uniform Crime Report categories of violent crimes and property crimes and separate figures for five index crimes (robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny, and motor vehicle theft). The analysis examined household crowding's independent association with SMSA and county crime rates. Results demonstrated household crowding was independently related to crime in 13 of 14 aggregate crime combinations. The only exception to this pattern was for larceny at the county level. The author recommends future research investigate the effects of household crowding on crime rates in neighborhoods and other aggregates smaller than those in the current study. Appendixes contain correlation matrixes for predictor variables for SMSAs and counties. 60 references and 6 tables Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casual Observer 597 Posted June 6, 2013 I don't know - education, presence of intact parental unit, availability of jobs/recreational activity, community support and financial resources all come to mind. My point is, it isn't simply about race and it is difficult to evaluate race's role in a vacuum. And you'll find many lacking education, without work and without financial resources in Eastern Kentucky. Can't say with respect to parental unit in that neck of the woods. Recreational activity? I had no recreational outlet so I had to engage in violent criminal behavior? That equates to a lack of impulse control to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casual Observer 597 Posted June 6, 2013 See my post above. As to number 2, it is a well described phenomenon: That's household crowding. I'm not finding this study at this hour, but does it give a breakdown by race? Are white crowded households equally criminally violent as black crowded households or hispanic crowded households? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casual Observer 597 Posted June 6, 2013 This guy gets it Did you put in a full day of work today or something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 6, 2013 And you'll find many lacking education, without work and without financial resources in Eastern Kentucky. Can't say with respect to parental unit in that neck of the woods. Recreational activity? I had no recreational outlet so I had to engage in violent criminal behavior? That equates to a lack of impulse control to me. You're still missing the point, which is, the problem is far more complex than race. The OP wants to label blacks as inherently violent. How do you suppose this will improve this multifaceted problem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted June 6, 2013 That's household crowding. I'm not finding this study at this hour, but does it give a breakdown by race? Are white crowded households equally criminally violent as black crowded households or hispanic crowded households? Crowding inside and out of homes is worse in the city. I don't know the racial breakdown, but my original point was it is difficult to isolate race as a crime determinate in a vacuum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,960 Posted June 6, 2013 Human evolution is not significant for most traits over such a short period (hundreds of years).Cultures going back thousands of years were far more advanced than a lot of Africa today, let alone 200 years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,793 Posted June 6, 2013 I think addressing violent urban culture, poverty, education, etc. without labeling it a "black problem" accomplishes the same goal. So therefore, you believe that having Jimmy Carter, Carrot Top and Paris Hilton would be just as effective at accomplishing the same goal of combating 'urban' gun violence as say, 50 cent, Beyonce and Nelson Mandela. Gotcha. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites