Dez threatens holdout into regular season...

[weepaws 3,191]

stuff like this illustrates the mistake I made welcoming you to this board weeps. I regret ever doing so.

Ok my man I think I got it already . You regret it I know we all know many times over I know already got it its posted good job . Oh yea I got it you regret it got it just one more for the road , and I'm sure I will read about it again .

[dehaven123 31]

JCs worst emissary into the world of FF talk.

[tanatastic 2,062]

Im not panicking yet...but if Dez is a threat to hold out games closer to the season he is off my list. This reeks of a guy who will whine about getting paid, then get paid and mail it in. Close to being dead to me.

[weepaws 3,191]

It sure does smell bad

[DrG 103]

If he holds out injury risk goes up. Then I do not draft him.

[sirensong 111]

interesting point--he's had recurring back issues over the years.

[R8RMick 242]

Just heard on 103.3 ESPN Dallas that the Boys latest offer was 10 years $114 million with $20 mill guaranteed. What the fock? Maybe they think that offensive line can catch passes too.

[weepaws 3,191]

Lol I bet he is thinking it over . I mean how can someone live on that .

[giraldi02 474]

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-corner-blog/article24870256.html

Dez showed up to the final day of mini-camps today. Keep believing this guy won't be there Week One. Maybe his ADP will slide enough lol

[LunaTick 30]

I do not see Dez being all that of a WR in a football sense.

He has benefitted from his situation, and his best value is to remain in that situation.

 

He isn't a top 3 wr in this league, he may have been a few years back.

But he isn't was stirs the drink.

 

 

[weepaws 3,191]

Don't they all benefit from their situation.

[LunaTick 30]

Don't they all benefit from their situation.

Agreed

 

A percentage of what makes a top 10 draft pick a HOF is the situation.

A QB with promise goes to a team without an Oline. Is concussed out of the league and never amounts to much.

A WR who beneifts from the scheme used by the team. Say by being the 3 option on a play.

 

What the deal here is, especially with the older vet. Is that they don't want just the promise of a long deal. or promise of a large deal. they want surety.

 

Its the issue with all of the leagues.

In some ways some leagues have too much surety, and in the NFL case, maybe not enough.

[weepaws 3,191]

Yea I agree with that .

[sirensong 111]

I do not see Dez being all that of a WR in a football sense.

He has benefitted from his situation, and his best value is to remain in that situation.

 

He isn't a top 3 wr in this league, he may have been a few years back.

But he isn't was stirs the drink.

 

 

 

 

this post is very weird. a few years back, dez was a rookie who didn't understand scheme concepts, didn't know how to run routes, but still managed to abuse secondaries off of raw physical talent. since then, he has steadily improved both his physical tools and his craft. there is no part of his game that is not substantially better now than it was in his first 2 seasons. and the results show--he has more TDs over the last 3 seasons than any other WR.

 

you say that he has benefitted from his situation, but the influence also goes the other direction--he has changed how romo plays. romo has always been a scheme distributor rather than a "feed the ball" QB (think of stafford-to-megatron or dalton-to-green as a feeder relationship). as dez has improved his game, romo has fed him more and earlier looks. so yeah--a WR is going to benefit from playing with an accurate, smart QB. but romo has benefitted also--they have a symbiotic relationship.

 

the top tier of WR talent is pretty well established: calvin (still), julio, green, d. thomas, and dez. none of that group is clearly superior to dez as a complete WR1 i a football sense.

 

DAL shouldn't break the bank to keep him, but as far as pure talent, he's among the best in the game.

[giraldi02 474]

 

He isn't a top 3 wr in this league, he may have been a few years back.

But he isn't was stirs the drink.

 

 

A few years ago? The guy has been in the league for a total of five seasons.

 

Over the past three seasons Dez has AVERAGED 1,311 receiving yards and nearly 14 touchdowns per season. And you think there are three receivers better than him?

 

There isn't a single player in the NFL that has averaged more receiving yards AND touchdowns during the past three seasons than Dez.

 

Not Julio. Not Megatron. Not DeMaryius (While his numbers are damn near identical, one also has to wonder how his career goes post-Manning). Not Jimmy Graham. Not Jordy. Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

No one.

 

[R8RMick 242]

 

 

this post is very weird. a few years back, dez was a rookie who didn't understand scheme concepts, didn't know how to run routes, but still managed to abuse secondaries off of raw physical talent. since then, he has steadily improved both his physical tools and his craft. there is no part of his game that is not substantially better now than it was in his first 2 seasons. and the results show--he has more TDs over the last 3 seasons than any other WR.

 

you say that he has benefitted from his situation, but the influence also goes the other direction--he has changed how romo plays. romo has always been a scheme distributor rather than a "feed the ball" QB (think of stafford-to-megatron or dalton-to-green as a feeder relationship). as dez has improved his game, romo has fed him more and earlier looks. so yeah--a WR is going to benefit from playing with an accurate, smart QB. but romo has benefitted also--they have a symbiotic relationship.

 

the top tier of WR talent is pretty well established: calvin (still), julio, green, d. thomas, and dez. none of that group is clearly superior to dez as a complete WR1 i a football sense.

 

DAL shouldn't break the bank to keep him, but as far as pure talent, he's among the best in the game.

 

I agree with this post completely, in fact Bryant did well with Kitna under center a few years back as well. If there's anything to cite, I've seen him be eclipsed by elite DB's AT TIMES over the years. And though the effort and drive is commendable, I'd like to see him play within himself in key situations. A savvy veteran gathers that catch in the GB playoff game and falls down at the four yard line. But I'm not sure that's how Bryant is wired. If it's a total package, yeah, I'd take it.

 

As for the money, they just can't pay a massive contract at this time. I think they franchise him one year, then get a deal in next off season. Surely Bryant has to know that Jones is no miser, and will take care of him. As for injury, security, et all, yeah I get where he's coming from. But it's just business.

[sirensong 111]

 

A savvy veteran gathers that catch in the GB playoff game and falls down at the four yard line.

 

 

bingo. as much as i hate to admit it, the savviest play i have ever seen came from a PHI player--brian westbrook, who did a kneeldown at the 2 yard line instead of taking the walk-in TD with a 1-point lead. allowed the eagles to run out the clock instead of giving the ball back.

 

you're right--dez isn't wired that way.

[weepaws 3,191]

That was a smart play , but not that great for fantasy football ouch .

[ralphster 274]

That was a smart play , but not that great for fantasy football ouch .

 

god bless you weepy

[weepaws 3,191]

god bless you weepy

Every day brother . Thank you Jesus .

[LunaTick 30]

I have been away for a while.

Here is my response.

 

My argument that he isn't a top 3 WR is based upon the fact that Dez has not been a top 3 wr.

 

But more importantly, why should it matter if he were one.

Isn't the ultimate goal of a NFL franchise to appear in and win the Superbowl.

Look at these states and what do you see. Or more importantly, not see.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards

2014, looking at yardage. Dez is number 8

2013, same stat, he is 13

2012, same stat he is 6

2011, he is 29

2010, .....

 

Now lets look at 2014, 13, and 12

14 and 13. there are two others that are atop the list both seasons.

1. Anotonio Brown #1 in 14 and #2 in 13

2. Demaryius Thomas #2 in 14 and #4 in 13

Dez was #8 and #13 these two seasons.

 

Now lets look at 13 and 12

1. Calvin Johnson #3 and #1

2. Demaryius Thomas #4 in 13 and #4 in 12

3. Andre Johnson #7 and #2

4. Brandon Marshall #11 and 33

 

What is interesting is how this list coorelates to this list

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/results/superbowl

 

But what is equally interesting is this

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/171466/inside-slant-dez-bryant-should-cash-in-with-cowboys-before-history-intervenes

 

 

Last I will state this.

NBA is all about a few stars being all that is necessary to win it all.

It appears the NFL demonstrates that it is all about a few bluechippers being all that is necessary to win it all.

 

Go ahead and overpay. Dez. It will just aid in keeping Dallas irrelvant.

 

 

 

 

[tanatastic 2,062]

 

 

bingo. as much as i hate to admit it, the savviest play i have ever seen came from a PHI player--brian westbrook, who did a kneeldown at the 2 yard line instead of taking the walk-in TD with a 1-point lead. allowed the eagles to run out the clock instead of giving the ball back.

 

you're right--dez isn't wired that way.

Please don't remind me of that play. Now I will have night terrors.

[ralphster 274]

Please don't remind me of that play. Now I will have night terrors.

 

MJD did it once too IIRC

[Vikings4ever 550]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/03/report-cowboys-think-dez-is-bluffing-needs-his-week-1-paycheck/

Would Dez Bryant really decline to sign the franchise tag and skip Week One of the regular season, missing a $750,000 paycheck in the process? The Cowboys reportedly don’t think so.

 

According to Jason Cole of Bleacher Report (via the Dallas Morning News), the Cowboys are not budging from the offer they’ve made Bryant and will tell him to either sign their offer or play the 2015 season under the $12.8 million franchise tag. The reason the Cowboys think they have the leverage to hold the line with Bryant is that they believe he’s bluffing about missing games, and that he is having money problems and wouldn’t be able to afford to give up a $750,000 paycheck.

 

It’s unclear what kind of money problems Bryant is having. He has made enough money already in his NFL career that he should be set for life, but Bryant does have expensive tastes and was once sued for failing to pay a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of jewelry he purchased.

[NEWPOSTERGUY! 288]

HE PROMISED ON HIS BABIES - NO DEAL, NO CAMP

 

hfs, what a circus

[Cruzer 1,995]

Dez is not under contract. Dez has done everything this franchise has asked of him. Dez has stayed out of trouble. Dez is the first to practice, the last to leave - and the hardest working man on the team.

 

He's earned the right to be trusted and I believe Stephen should pay him. The sticking point appears to be the guaranteed number, which Dez seems to want around $40m. I think we should pay it - plus it will free up about $7m in cap space for us this year.

[tanatastic 2,062]

AJ Green needs to be near the top of everyones wr rankings. He was hurt last year but still played well. Hes in a contract year and has no intention of holding out. Thats a real warrior, a passion for the game and he knows that if he explodes this year he gets a HUGE payday. This guy is the equivilent of a powder keg of dynamite right now, he may very well lead the league. Im taking him over Dez Bryant all day every day. Id only rank Antonio B and maybe 2 other guys tops ahead of him.

[weepaws 3,191]

Are ranking him as a person or what you think he will do in fantasy football ?

[tanatastic 2,062]

Are ranking him as a person or what you think he will do in fantasy football ?

FF. If you read the post you responded to youd see things like "he may very well lead the league", that would be an indicator that I was making a FF prediction. Cmon man we already know hes one of the best wrs in the league, he has been highly ranked since his rookie year. Its not a leap of faith or stretch to claim hes ready for another huge season. Im saying the outside factors are all set for him to achieve it. This is his year to make his big deal, he knows it. The fire will be burning, we already know hes a warrior. He will be as focused as ever. QB play is his only limiting factor but hes exploded before with dalton. Plus they have Hill to bang it now, its just a perfect storm.

[sirensong 111]

Dez seems to want around $40m. I think we should pay it - plus it will free up about $7m in cap space for us this year.

 

this is why tagging him is a bit strange--the $13M from this season is already fully guaranteed. this means that if he's asking for $40M guaranteed, and you give it to him tomorrow, the other $27M is spread out over the life of the contract. to put it another way, it's going to cost at least $26M guaranteed money to tag him for 2 years.

 

since everyone is focused on the guaranteed figure, i say negotiate with that. give him $42M guaranteed (which is a really high number), with an average annual salary of $14M. that way the money is all off the books in 3 seasons, as he's turning 29.

[sirensong 111]

AJ Green needs to be near the top of everyones wr rankings. He was hurt last year but still played well. Hes in a contract year and has no intention of holding out. Thats a real warrior, a passion for the game and he knows that if he explodes this year he gets a HUGE payday. This guy is the equivilent of a powder keg of dynamite right now, he may very well lead the league. Im taking him over Dez Bryant all day every day. Id only rank Antonio B and maybe 2 other guys tops ahead of him.

 

 

ESPN just ran a quantitative analysis on the contract year myth, and demonstrated yet again that it's a myth.

 

and remember that a WR's performance is not just based on the WR. i like green, but i don't like that dalton is throwing to him. give him a real QB, and i'll be more willing to agree with you.

[tanatastic 2,062]

 

 

ESPN just ran a quantitative analysis on the contract year myth, and demonstrated yet again that it's a myth.

 

and remember that a WR's performance is not just based on the WR. i like green, but i don't like that dalton is throwing to him. give him a real QB, and i'll be more willing to agree with you.

Ok so every year when we rank AJ Green as a top wr has just been false? Or how bout these years with Dalton?

 

2013 98 1400 11

2012 97 1300 11

 

Guess one off year when hes banged up yet still puts up 1k yds makes him no longer a top WR? Its absolutely staggering that I have to argue for AJ mother effing Green as a top wr. Baffling. Stop looking at stats from last year and understand that if he had been healthy hed have had another monster year and we would be talking about him as a top 4 wr like he has been since his rookie year.

[sirensong 111]

Ok so every year when we rank AJ Green as a top wr has just been false? Or how bout these years with Dalton?

 

2013 98 1400 11

2012 97 1300 11

 

Guess one off year when hes banged up yet still puts up 1k yds makes him no longer a top WR? Its absolutely staggering that I have to ague for AJ mother effing Green asd a top wr. Baffling.

 

 

green is certainly a top WR. saying that you'll take him over dez "all day every day" because he's in a "contract year" sounds more like fanboyism than cold analysis.

[tanatastic 2,062]

 

 

green is certainly a top WR. saying that you'll take him over dez "all day every day" because he's in a "contract year" sounds more like fanboyism than cold analysis.

Fine, we are splitting hairs then. Hes ranked right around Dez, either above or below, right around Julio. Theres for sure some fanboy action going on for me. Im just getting paranoid that people are all of a sudden cold on one of the best wrs in the league playing with a qb who has made him a star and whos offense is in the best shape its been since he started.

[sirensong 111]

Fine, we are splitting hairs then. Hes ranked right around Dez, either above or below, right around Julio. Theres for sure some fanboy action going on for me. Im just getting paranoid that people are all of a sudden cold on one of the best wrs in the league playing with a qb who has made him a star and whos offense is in the best shape its been since he started.

 

in this thread or the last one, i posted the 5-6 guys who are all dominant--WRs who would succeed regardless of who is behind center. green was on that list, and i don't think you can make the case that anyone is clearly better than he is. OTOH, it's hard to say that he's clearly superior to anyone else in that group (calvin, julio, DT, dez).

[tanatastic 2,062]

in this thread or the last one, i posted the 5-6 guys who are all dominant--WRs who would succeed regardless of who is behind center. green was on that list, and i don't think you can make the case that anyone is clearly better than he is. OTOH, it's hard to say that he's clearly superior to anyone else in that group (calvin, julio, DT, dez).

There's def a huge spoil of riches at the wr position. People even forgetting Nelson would could easily be top 3.

[NEWPOSTERGUY! 288]

Fine, we are splitting hairs then. Hes ranked right around Dez, either above or below, right around Julio. Theres for sure some fanboy action going on for me. Im just getting paranoid that people are all of a sudden cold on one of the best wrs in the league playing with a qb who has made him a star and whos offense is in the best shape its been since he started.

Haden owns AJ ... rendering him virtually useless for 2 games per season.

 

read a stat yesterday that half of AJ's career yardage vs Haden came on just 2 plays.

 

over the past 2 seasons Green has 17/133/0 combined in the 4 games vs Cleveland ... so you average roughly 4/33/0 per outing.

 

that's 7 in ppr, 3 in std.

 

meh.

 

that's pure dominance on Haden's end, he def has AJ's number. true that every wr throws a clunker up here and there, but the randomness of those clunkers is the nature of fantasy ... AJ's clunkers vs Haden are not exactly random. dunno if i wanna invest in a high end pick that i know is gonna be borderline bench fodder twice a year

[giraldi02 474]

2 games that aren't in the fantasy playoffs. Plus one of the Bengals games this season against the Browns is on Thursday. So it kills two birds with one lousy TNF game

[R8RMick 242]

I see worth in the position of both sides. The Cowboys are merely utilizing a tool which was ignorantly bargained into the CBA by NFLPA leadership. Bryant on the other hand knows full well he has perhaps three strong-elite level seasons left in him, and wants to cash in now for his future security. Both sides are right, yet both need to come closer to the other.

 

Another factor hurting is the ridiculous contracts given out to some WR's, like Mike Wallace for example. Bryant wants a deal worth considerably more than that of Wallace, if for no other reason than pride alone, which is a HUGE factor when dealing with Dez Bryant. The problem is, Wallace is nowhere near worth the $27 mill guaranteed/$12 mill per year deal he fleeced the Dolphins for. Furthermore, I think Calvin Johnson's contract is also ridiculous. But these are the parameters Bryant is working from. He needs to come back down to earth before a deal can get done.

 

The Cowboys on the other hand also need to raise their offer. This team has huge contracts coming up the road for these offensive linemen they're building around, in fact they'll need to start paying Collins in TWO years. Plus how many years does Romo have left? Jones, Stephen Jones that is, may be thinking he can franchise Bryant for the next two years, then cut him loose when he has perhaps one season of elite status left. About that time Romo will be getting near the end and the whole team gets blown up and rebuilt around the offensive line.

 

I personally think they've already made a mistake in letting Murray walk. If for NOTHING else it would have helped their bargaining position with Bryant now. The question is how much will all the upcoming drama effect the team while it prepares for the 2015 season? Bryant can be a loose cannon, both on and off the field. Do you invest a fortune in a player who did not even have the football smarts to reel in the biggest catch of the year and fall on the ball at the four yard line? Look at the picture from the attached story, which by the way also puts a nice spin on Bryant's situation.

 

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2015/7/12/8934725/dez-bryant-has-he-already-peaked-as-one-study-suggests-dallas-cowboys

[Frozenbeernuts 2,264]

I usually do not agree with over paying players, but in this instance the cowboys have a short window to win. Even if they dont get a contract done and Dez ends up playing games, if he misses all of training camp he isnt going to be at his best. That can hurt the team. Pay now and hope you win with your older qb. Teams can go from bad to good very quickly in this sport, so spending a year or two at the bottom with bad contracts isnt all that bad, especially if the team wins a SB.