Darren McFadden or Joseph Randle

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

Yes. I travel to every training camp before I comment on things on this site. It's not easy but I'm really accumulating those frequent flyer miles for training camps 2016.

The guy thinks because he watches Dallas Cowboys practice cam on a loop he has some sort of insight the rest of us don't. Funny he never tells you who is not having a good camp or who's going to be a dog. Homer Maximus.

[Einstein's Dog 24]

So which of the two long shots, Ray Rice or Pierre Thomas, has the better odds of taking the job?

 

I'm leaning Ray Rice, just seems like a Cowboys thing to do.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,263]

PT

[redsrback 30]

If the situation stays like it is before you draft, what is the possibility you pick McFadden the guy who you should know by now. Randle at least has upside and can stretch a post for 8 pages. I get a kick out of people who read to much into ADP rankings and think there going to get Randle. Cmon 12 guys and you don't expect somebody to take a leap hoping for big numbers from a guy best suited to replace Murrays numbers. He is a Cowboy and didn't do anything in the few chances last year to not get his shot.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,263]

If the situation stays like it is before you draft, what is the possibility you pick McFadden the guy who you should know by now. Randle at least has upside and can stretch a post for 8 pages. I get a kick out of people who read to much into ADP rankings and think there going to get Randle. Cmon 12 guys and you don't expect somebody to take a leap hoping for big numbers from a guy best suited to replace Murrays numbers. He is a Cowboy and didn't do anything in the few chances last year to not get his shot.

In shark type leagues its tough to get any true value. I am in a few and its seriously rough sometimes. Home leaguws though, there are some good owners, but there is maybe one person who comes close to putting as much time in to studying football as i do. What you say about adp is true the opposite way also. Jeremy hill fell to 3.01 in our 10 team draft. After i took Bell at 4 overall Beckham fell to me in the second. Forsett went at 3.10. There is always a lot of fluctuation in real drafts compared to adp. Plus some sites have 2 round differences for some players

[sirensong 111]

In the limited action we've seen of him in camp - he's looked as good, if not better, than Randle.

 

then there was last night, where randle showed why he's in the conversation--better vision and movement, even with and against the same personnel. 4+ YPC while missing 4 of 5 starting OLmen against SF's 1st team D is not nothing.

[R8RMick 242]

Well, I DO live in Dallas (Arlington actually) and can say with confidence that the Cowboy team you saw last year is gone. The 12 wins, the chance at an NFC Championship, all of it. No use worrying about who is going to split up 440 carries because they won't be there.

 

The power running, clock controlling team you saw last year is gone because they don't have a running back to run that offense.

 

So really this conversation is about who can split the handful of carries on what will again become a pass first team. Trying to extrapolate DeMarco Murray's numbers between the current stable of plumbers is a useless endeavor.

 

Cowboy fans know damn good and well Murray's guaranteed number is not $40 mill but is instead $18 million. I've heard all sorts of excuses, but for the life of me cannot fathom the case against Murray by Dallas fans and team management. Would Jerry Jones write a one-time $18 mill check for a super bowl trophy? Rhetorical question. Even if Murray played ONE year it'd be worth it to Jones.

 

This team has made a serious error in judgement that is going to cost it and its fans this season. I'm calling it, the first two games of 1993 re-visited.

[Cruzer 1,995]

The guy thinks because he watches Dallas Cowboys practice cam on a loop he has some sort of insight the rest of us don't. Funny he never tells you who is not having a good camp or who's going to be a dog. Homer Maximus.

There's no such thing - but I am an ear in the city and (I would think) more tuned in than others not so... Really that hard to grasp?

[Cruzer 1,995]

Well, I DO live in Dallas (Arlington actually) and can say with confidence that the Cowboy team you saw last year is gone. The 12 wins, the chance at an NFC Championship, all of it. No use worrying about who is going to split up 440 carries because they won't be there.

That team might be gone - but to suggest this team's chances of big success are ridiculous and frankly, ignorant... The hard on you have for Murray is well noted, but we had him last year - how'd that turn out? Overall we are a deeper, more talented team than last year. How that translates to wins, don't know yet.... Maybe you don't remember, or weren't here - but we've been burned time and time again for bad contracts - the list too long to type. Murray was viewed as such, and I agree.... Where we focked up, imo, was by not drafting one. To take Chaz Green in the 3rd was as bad and par with taking Escobar in the 2nd 2 years back.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

There's no such thing - but I am an ear in the city and (I would think) more tuned in than others not so... Really that hard to grasp?

You said "yeah, I'm talking about practice" when you were saying how much inside dope you have. Do you go to the practices? Because anyone can go online and read what you read, FYI.

[Cruzer 1,995]

 

then there was last night, where randle showed why he's in the conversation--better vision and movement, even with and against the same personnel. 4+ YPC while missing 4 of 5 starting OLmen against SF's 1st team D is not nothing.

He looked good, I thought DMC did too...... I'm not sure if I trust DMC yet, but I for damn sure don't trust Randle. I fear he's either going to get Romo killed, have costly fumbles - or both.

[Cruzer 1,995]

You said "yeah, I'm talking about practice" when you were saying how much inside dope you have. Do you go to the practices? Because anyone can go online and read what you read, FYI.

You amuse me, so I will bite.... Here's a newsflash, might want to write it down, what's written is not everything out there. The beat writers, who are at practice, are on sports radio all day long here. They are giving insight, updates and evaluations on things that don't make it to print. And they aren't sitting behind some desk in NY - they are actually inside camp, at Oxnard, behind the walls at Valley Ranch, etc.. you get the picture... Then again, you prolly don't.

[MDC 7,407]

 

you mean that they should have gotten an RB who was better than murray? because whereas romo has been quite successful without murray in the lineup, murray without romo couldn't do much of anything. so yeah--if there was a better RB than murray available, and for a decent price, i would have been all for bringing him in. i wanted mathews during FA, and abdullah in the draft. but you can't always get what you want.

 

amusingly, 2 years ago, PHI fans were laughing at how fragile murray was. these days, they talk like murray's 2014 season was theirs. so yeah--you should have one of the best backfields in the league--you're paying $14M/yr for it. we'll see how it shakes out during the season.

I notice there's no denying the Boys are worse now and the Eagkes have among the best backfields in football so congrats for bargain shopping I guess. That $17.99 sweater you got at TJ Maxx is going to look awesome in December.

[Cruzer 1,995]

...and the Eagkes have among the best backfields in football so congrats for bargain shopping I guess.

Hey - you guys finally won something! You should have a poster made up "We Have Among the Best Backfields in Football - 2015" and put in in your trophy case, next to the old phone books.

[MDC 7,407]

Hey - you guys finally won something! You should have a poster made up "We Have Among the Best Backfields in Football - 2015" and put in in your trophy case, next to the old phone books.

95 was a special year for me too. I was a sophomore in high school and scored 4 TDs in one game for Polk High.

[R8RMick 242]

That team might be gone - but to suggest this team's chances of big success are ridiculous and frankly, ignorant... The hard on you have for Murray is well noted, but we had him last year - how'd that turn out? Overall we are a deeper, more talented team than last year. How that translates to wins, don't know yet.... Maybe you don't remember, or weren't here - but we've been burned time and time again for bad contracts - the list too long to type. Murray was viewed as such, and I agree.... Where we focked up, imo, was by not drafting one. To take Chaz Green in the 3rd was as bad and par with taking Escobar in the 2nd 2 years back.

Dude, have nothing but mad respect for you and the Sirensong as Cowboy fans, but respectfully you guys are drinking the party line koolaid.

 

'How did last year work out?'

 

Well let's see. The team opened up an absolute can of power running whip-ass on the league and finished with it's best record in years. It swaggered into the stadium of the super bowl champs and shut up Richard Sherman by punching his team right in the grill. It came THAT close to winning in Green Bay, and left that stadium holding its head high. I think it was the best Cowboys team in almost 20 years. And I'll tell you, when they were running out the clock late in one of the Giants games and the offensive line did an old school 70's up-down set, that was some bad-ass shite.

 

Say what you will about Murray, and I'm not taking it personal you called me ignorant, but he was the tool which allowed you to play that power running style which returned you to prominence.

 

It's ironic, as I have absolutely loved every move this team has made this off season but one. Of course it's not too late for them to make a trade. But to hope for last year, with these plumbers... It's flat out fantasy, no pun intended.

[Cruzer 1,995]

95 was a special year for me too. I was a sophomore in high school and scored 4 TDs in one game for Polk High.

I missed the trash talking - ready to get this thing started.

[Kent 228]

That team might be gone - but to suggest this team's chances of big success are ridiculous and frankly, ignorant... The hard on you have for Murray is well noted, but we had him last year - how'd that turn out? Overall we are a deeper, more talented team than last year. How that translates to wins, don't know yet.... Maybe you don't remember, or weren't here - but we've been burned time and time again for bad contracts - the list too long to type. Murray was viewed as such, and I agree.... Where we focked up, imo, was by not drafting one. To take Chaz Green in the 3rd was as bad and par with taking Escobar in the 2nd 2 years back.

You're not more talented at RB. Murray was the car and the engine. He kept everything working and that defense off the field.

 

Romo is back to being the car, the engine and the driver again.

 

Good luck.

[Cruzer 1,995]

Say what you will about Murray, and I'm not taking it personal you called me ignorant...

I believed I called the suggestion and idea ignorant - not you... The power running game might be gone. But there's a better than average chance (based on history) that it was going to be gone anyways. You know the stats - backs with 450 touches don't normally bounce back, certainly not equal to the previous year's production... You seem to have absolute faith that bcoz Murray is gone we will not still have an effective and prosperous running game. Albeit worried about the health of our guys, I'm more optimistic - provided we can get them, and our starting line, on the field.

[Cruzer 1,995]

You're not more talented at RB. Murray was the car and the engine.

No argument there - I don't think any sane fan would argue that.... But I also don't believe "that" Murray was going to come back and repeat his production from 2014. Given his injury history, and his previous work load - I have little faith it would of repeated itself.

[sirensong 111]

I notice there's no denying the Boys are worse now and the Eagkes have among the best backfields in football so congrats for bargain shopping I guess. That $17.99 sweater you got at TJ Maxx is going to look awesome in December.

 

we don't yet know if they are worse or not. they substantially increased defensive talent across the board, and they lost a quality RB who has had 1 high-performing season in 4 years (but who was ineffective in the absence of romo). by comparison, PHI dumped their former darling--one of the most consistently dangerous RBs in the league for the last several years--and brought in a guy who has only played 1 complete season since he entered the league, and 2 since he graduated high school.

 

amusingly, PHI is now disdaining the RB they used to brag about, and bragging about the RB that they used to disdain.

 

so who made the better team structure moves? we'll find out in the regular season.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

You amuse me, so I will bite.... Here's a newsflash, might want to write it down, what's written is not everything out there. The beat writers, who are at practice, are on sports radio all day long here. They are giving insight, updates and evaluations on things that don't make it to print. And they aren't sitting behind some desk in NY - they are actually inside camp, at Oxnard, behind the walls at Valley Ranch, etc.. you get the picture... Then again, you prolly don't.

That's great, but when are you going to share some of those insights you claim to have procured? Everything I see you write is common knowledge, that any ESPN guy can tell you.

[R8RMick 242]

I believed I called the suggestion and idea ignorant - not you... The power running game might be gone. But there's a better than average chance (based on history) that it was going to be gone anyways. You know the stats - backs with 450 touches don't normally bounce back, certainly not equal to the previous year's production... You seem to have absolute faith that bcoz Murray is gone we will not still have an effective and prosperous running game. Albeit worried about the health of our guys, I'm more optimistic - provided we can get them, and our starting line, on the field.

 

Clarification noted, lol... Whether a 'prosperous and effective' running game equates to the power running/clock control game this team NEEDS to compete at an NFC Championship level remains to be seen.

 

I'm still not convinced this team stands pat. I think they HAD intention to pursue Peterson as aggressively as would be allowed, which is why they discarded Murray so callously. BTW they didn't need 400 carries out of him, but with Randle's ineptitude at pass blocking they just couldn't take him off the field late in games. A nice total would've been 320 carries, or 20 per game. But it's academic.

 

This team STILL has excellent options in the trade market, using Leary as trade bait. They're losing him next year anyway. KC, Baltimore and even New Orleans are all prime targets. The Saints could slide Leary into left guard, move Zach Strief back to RT, and have an offensive line up the middle of Leary at LG, Max Unger at C, and Jahri Evans at RG. That's a stout foundation for Drew Brees. And in return maybe you ask for a Khiry Robinson. But I digress.

 

A power runner with explosion puts the Boys right back in the mix. With the degradation of Seattle's offensive line, and now the loss of Jordy Nelson in GB, that would put Dallas in the drivers seat. You could work similar deals with KC or Baltimore for Javorius Allen or Taliaferro. But please, just stop with the Joseph Randle/McFragile business.

[sirensong 111]

You're not more talented at RB. Murray was the car and the engine. He kept everything working and that defense off the field.

 

Romo is back to being the car, the engine and the driver again.

 

Good luck.

 

of course the talent level dropped at RB--no one is arguing otherwise. the issue is overall team structure, and whether or not an improved defense is more important overall than a RB--the most replaceable position on offense.

 

the problem with the cap-era cowboys has always been overpaying guys after one quality season (MBIII, miles austin, doug free, ken hamlin, etc.), which kept them in cap hell for a number of years. amusingly, everyone is now saying that DAL's problem is that it didn't overpay a guy after one quality season.

 

i would be much happier if murray was still in town. but you can't keep everyone.

[sirensong 111]

This team STILL has excellent options in the trade market, using Leary as trade bait. They're losing him next year anyway.

 

 

this is an interesting argument, but IMO a wrong one. first, due to his degenerative knee condition, no one is going to trade for leary--he might have 1-2 years left in the tank after this season. this is exactly why he went undrafted in the first place.

 

second, the OL has a serious depth problem right now. remember that when doug free got hurt last season, murray's production dropped by around 30%. the problem is that DAL does not have a competent swing tackle, as the preseason has made eminently clear. weems just doesn't have the tools. green is on PUP, and can't conceivably be ready to play until week 10 or so. and he'd still be a rookie at that point. bernadeaux is the backup at both G and C, but they're losing him next season also. and while collins has flashed, he has done so as a G--there are serious questions about his ability to play even RT. if it tells you anything, he has been unable to beat out leary at G, and leary is probably the weakest starter.

 

so even if you could trade leary, you'd lose both continuity and depth this season, and start creating big holes next year.

[sirensong 111]

 

It's ironic, as I have absolutely loved every move this team has made this off season but one.

 

 

no one wanted to give murray up. it's just the nature of working within a budget.

 

maybe i'm just inured to it since running a business on a budget is second nature to me. and from a football perspective, i have memories of a 1-legged rodgers carving up the cowboys' D in the playoffs. murray was simply irrelevant. i also remember overpaying MBIII after one big season, and seeing it doom team structure for the next 4 years.

[R8RMick 242]

 

 

this is an interesting argument, but IMO a wrong one. first, due to his degenerative knee condition, no one is going to trade for leary--he might have 1-2 years left in the tank after this season. this is exactly why he went undrafted in the first place.

 

second, the OL has a serious depth problem right now. remember that when doug free got hurt last season, murray's production dropped by around 30%. the problem is that DAL does not have a competent swing tackle, as the preseason has made eminently clear. weems just doesn't have the tools. green is on PUP, and can't conceivably be ready to play until week 10 or so. and he'd still be a rookie at that point. bernadeaux is the backup at both G and C, but they're losing him next season also. and while collins has flashed, he has done so as a G--there are serious questions about his ability to play even RT. if it tells you anything, he has been unable to beat out leary at G, and leary is probably the weakest starter.

 

so even if you could trade leary, you'd lose both continuity and depth this season, and start creating big holes next year.

Hadn't heard that about Leary's knee. Of course knew the history, and how Callahan found him, but I defer to your take.

 

I'd think if you had a surplus of talent at a position as valued as offensive line you'd trade from that strength. All the rookie o-linemen are struggling now, but Collins will round out fine. I did not think he'd beat Leary out, but he's probably the second best rookie o-lineman in this year's draft behind Scherff. They ARE deep at the position in relation to other teams like KC. Alex Smith was running a Chinese fire drill against Seattle.

 

A top 10 NFL guard would probably be undervalued by being traded for a backup RB. So perhaps Leary's knee would even the scales. I do know he'd start on almost any other team in the league, and would be the best player on half of those team's lines.

[R8RMick 242]

 

 

no one wanted to give murray up. it's just the nature of working within a budget.

 

maybe i'm just inured to it since running a business on a budget is second nature to me. and from a football perspective, i have memories of a 1-legged rodgers carving up the cowboys' D in the playoffs. murray was simply irrelevant. i also remember overpaying MBIII after one big season, and seeing it doom team structure for the next 4 years.

C'mon, Murray was most definitely NOT irrelevant and kept The Boys in that game.

[sirensong 111]

C'mon, Murray was most definitely NOT irrelevant and kept The Boys in that game.

 

in the 4th quarter, murray had a 30 yard gain and a 2 yard gain. rodgers was 7-7 with 104 yds and a TD. however much murray contributed, he couldn't stop rodgers because he doesn't play defense.

 

GB had 66 offensive snaps to DAL's 51, and outgained the cowboys by >20%. rodgers completed 69% with 3 TDs and a PR of 125.4, despite barely practicing during the previous two weeks and limping around the field in the second half--when the pass rush is supposed to be at its most effective. DAL got no sacks in the 2nd half, and GB rolled up 17 points.

 

i've said this numerous times before, and i'll say it again--the running game and defense go hand-in-hand. you cannot succeed in a ground-based attack unless you have enough of a defense to play the field position game. this has always been true in the NFL. DAL and SEA had mirror image ground production, but the reason that SEA could succeed in the postseason was because they had the defense to go with it. without that, a team can't be successful in january.

 

so for DAL to build on the ground game without a tremendous investment in the defense would be planning for failure. it simply wouldn't work. they would be able to reach the playoffs again, but they wouldn't have been successful...just like last season.

 

another thing i've said before is that if JJ had known that he would be getting gregory and collins at bargain prices, murray would still be on the team. but at the time, he had to make the choice between planning for failure by paying a RB at the expense of the pass rush, or investing in a DPR. he made the right choice, even though it wasn't a very glamorous one.

[R8RMick 242]

 

in the 4th quarter, murray had a 30 yard gain and a 2 yard gain. rodgers was 7-7 with 104 yds and a TD. however much murray contributed, he couldn't stop rodgers because he doesn't play defense.

 

GB had 66 offensive snaps to DAL's 51, and outgained the cowboys by >20%. rodgers completed 69% with 3 TDs and a PR of 125.4, despite barely practicing during the previous two weeks and limping around the field in the second half--when the pass rush is supposed to be at its most effective. DAL got no sacks in the 2nd half, and GB rolled up 17 points.

 

i've said this numerous times before, and i'll say it again--the running game and defense go hand-in-hand. you cannot succeed in a ground-based attack unless you have enough of a defense to play the field position game. this has always been true in the NFL. DAL and SEA had mirror image ground production, but the reason that SEA could succeed in the postseason was because they had the defense to go with it. without that, a team can't be successful in january.

 

so for DAL to build on the ground game without a tremendous investment in the defense would be planning for failure. it simply wouldn't work. they would be able to reach the playoffs again, but they wouldn't have been successful...just like last season.

 

another thing i've said before is that if JJ had known that he would be getting gregory and collins at bargain prices, murray would still be on the team. but at the time, he had to make the choice between planning for failure by paying a RB at the expense of the pass rush, or investing in a DPR. he made the right choice, even though it wasn't a very glamorous one.

And yet if Murray doesn't fumble that ball and takes it to the house... Or they don't stall that first half drive and miss a FG... IF Romo doesn't get banged up in second half... Or if Dez merely secures that ball for the catch... It was hardly a forlorn hope, and you damn near won that game, pitiful defense and all.

 

Go back and look at the numbers, they ran the ball in the first half and dominated. They aired it out SOME in the second half (Romo only had 19 attempts for the game) and couldn't control the clock. Someone on here mocked me, pointing out the Boys only passed 19 times for the game and asking if they should have run MORE. At this point, with the Pack unable to stop Murray, I would have said yes.

 

You've upgraded your defense, I'll give you that. But at the expense last year's power running Cowboys team is gone. He's in Philly and probably going to go for 200 against you in Week 2. Kelly may only give him 250 carries, but 30 of those will come that week.

 

Look, maybe it'll work out and that line can turn a 6-0 200 lb guy with 4.6 speed into a star. If so I'll be the first to give props. But right now, my take is they've watched their window slam shut. Hate to see it, I was a HUGE fan of how they went about their business last year.

[sirensong 111]

And yet if Murray doesn't fumble that ball and takes it to the house... Or they don't stall that first half drive and miss a FG... IF Romo doesn't get banged up in second half... Or if Dez merely secures that ball for the catch... It was hardly a forlorn hope, and you damn near won that game, pitiful defense and all.

 

Go back and look at the numbers, they ran the ball in the first half and dominated. They aired it out SOME in the second half (Romo only had 19 attempts for the game) and couldn't control the clock. Someone on here mocked me, pointing out the Boys only passed 19 times for the game and asking if they should have run MORE. At this point, with the Pack unable to stop Murray, I would have said yes.

 

 

i think you've forgotten the game. first, DAL didn't in any way dominate the first half of the game. murray averaged 3.0 YPC, and the only thing that brought DAL to life was a DPI on GB that put the ball on the 1, and later a short-field drive following a GB turnover.

 

furthermore, you seem to forget that DAL did control the clock, winning TOP even though they had 15 fewer offensive snaps. but that is (and always has been) irrelevant against a high-tempo, quick pass offense...unless the defense is equipped to make stops. but DAL wasn't--GB had an obscene 64% 3rd down conversion rate. to put it in other terms, GB had more successful 3rd down conversions than DAL had third downs total. and GB did this despite having double the number of penalties and considerably more than double the penalty yardage against.

 

for most of the game, GB made DAL look completely outclassed. murray popped 1 run in each half (26 and 30), but his other 23 carries averaged under 3 per. and of course there was the fumble.

 

and ultimately, even had dez scored, rodgers would have had the ball back with 4min to play, against a defense he was shredding at will. how was murray going to help them then? rush the passer? play cornerback against the rookie who destroyed the DAL secondary?

 

had DAL gone into this season built the same way, the same results would have been expected--a playoff run, but getting beaten in january by a team with better structure. defense and depth win championships, and DAL went with defense and depth over keeping the big-name star who had only put up 1 good season.

 

we'll see how it shakes out.

[MDC 7,407]

I missed the trash talking - ready to get this thing started.

[Cruzer 1,995]

That's great, but when are you going to share some of those insights you claim to have procured? Everything I see you write is common knowledge, that any ESPN guy can tell you.

I believe I have been. The fact that you aren't pleased has little effect on my comfort.

[redsrback 30]

R8RMick I disagree with your man-crush on Murray being Dallas savior. Dallas made a dynasty with Preston Pearson and Robert Newhouse. Tony Dorsett found his own holes. Emmitt Smith was average back who had holes anybody could of ran through. Good grief Dallas finally made a good decision getting rid of a guy who has been healthy 1 out of 4 years. Ill put Murray in the Herschel Walker category. Just another guy that will fill the good will store racks .

[Eagles Green 34]

I missed the trash talking - ready to get this thing started.

Fock off, seriously.

 

[Cruzer 1,995]

Fock off, seriously.

 

Hey, there's my Iggs buddy!

[R8RMick 242]

R8RMick I disagree with your man-crush on Murray being Dallas savior. Dallas made a dynasty with Preston Pearson and Robert Newhouse. Tony Dorsett found his own holes. Emmitt Smith was average back who had holes anybody could of ran through. Good grief Dallas finally made a good decision getting rid of a guy who has been healthy 1 out of 4 years. Ill put Murray in the Herschel Walker category. Just another guy that will fill the good will store racks .

Apologies I just saw this... "Emmit Smith was an AVERAGE back...?" My God man I hope you re-read this when you sobered up the next morning! Not wanting to pile on, but it's stupid shite like this which cost people credibility here. If you care. Or maybe you prefer filibustering to yourself? If so bust a move Beavis.

 

BTW watching a replay of the Frisco-Dallas game... With about 6 min left in first half, on a 3rd and 2 short of midfield, saw Joseph Randle speedwalk through a hole the size of the East Bay and get caught after 5 yards. Murray takes that to the house. Or about 40-50 yards until he gets tired.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Skinny_Bastard 157]

Why do folks talk like they know what's really happening. The truth is, I don't think Garrett knows himself!

[ralphster 274]

How much does the Scandrick injury effect your defense?

[Skinny_Bastard 157]

Of course, if Randle finishes the season with 2,000 total yards and 10 TD, he will get zero credit from all th haters.