Now that the transcripts have been released for deflategate.....

[NewbieJr 541]

So I read that Brady has agreed to accept suspension for non-cooperation, but won't admit to the findings of the Wells report. Sounds like this thing is wrapping up. Goodell should sign off on that. Even if Brady admitted that he cheated, he'd later say he was pressured and wanted to end it to prevent causing a further distraction to his team. No one in their right mind ever expected Brady to admit that he cheated. So let's play ball!

[edjr 6,586]

Brady willing to take 1 game suspension if the wording states that it is for noncooperation only.

[NewbieJr 541]

Brady willing to take 1 game suspension if the wording states that it is for noncooperation only.

1 game? lol That's really big of him. I only read that he's willing to take a suspension. I doubt Goodell budges from the four. He has to let the rest of the league know that cheating will not be taken lightly. It certainly can't be less games than smoking a joint.

[edjr 6,586]

4 games for non-cooperation

 

hilarity at it's finest

[dain11279 976]

The article I read on ESPN mentioned that talks are going "nowhere".

[edjr 6,586]

The article I read on ESPN mentioned that talks are going "nowhere".

 

That was as of yesterday, schefty reported the stuff newbie and I said this morning

[NewbieJr 541]

4 games for non-cooperation

 

hilarity at it's finest

It's just verbiage. The suspension is for a combination of cheating, lying, covering up. The wording Brady wants to use is so that he can still pretend to have a squeaky clean image and say he never technically got caught or admitted to cheating.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

A couple of things:

 

Did anybody see the NFL player pole on ESPN? They asked them questions about deflategate. I have to do this from memory, but I believe 72% of the players think Brady is guilty. Also around 84% don't care about whatever was done to the balls at all. They figure all the teams do something. I wonder how many have put helium in the balls.

 

Also, Brady is not expected to attend the hearing today. Will the judge be offended and decide for the league? Is he giving up? does it make him look guilty?

 

Personally, I hope that what ever happens, Brady plays the Cowboys in week four. Who wants to watch the backup QB and give the Pats fans a huge excuse for getting beat. I always want to see the best team the competition can field.

 

I thought Brady was attending the hearing?

 

At any rate it hardly matters either way. Maybe for "optics" but otherwise a party not attending a court hearing before a judge is actually pretty commonplace. The lawyers need to be there but the actual parties really don't.

[TD Ryan2 316]

 

I thought Brady was attending the hearing?

 

 

sports radio announced yesterday the the Judge told Brady not to attend today.

I don't believe Goodell is supposed to be there today either

[IGotWorms 4,058]

 

sports radio announced yesterday the the Judge told Brady not to attend today.

I don't believe Goodell is supposed to be there today either

 

Judge wants to cut down on the media circus so they can actually get something resolved. Makes sense.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

Judge wants to cut down on the media circus so they can actually get something resolved. Makes sense.

 

It is probably more than that they don't want that artist creating any more Picasso's.

 

 

The reality is that Brady was there yesterday to talk through settlement. No settlement was reached and the Judge figured that it would be easier to have those not emotionally invested provide background info today.

[TD Ryan2 316]

 

Judge wants to cut down on the media circus so they can actually get something resolved. Makes sense.

Brady's lawyers opened the door for "non-cooperation" last week. Seems like this is where it will all end up.

 

Brady: I didn't do anything

NFL: You did, and we know you did. $1mil fine. Draft Picks. 4 Game Suspension!! NO FOOTBALL FOR YOU!

Brady: Seriously? Even if I did what you are suggesting, it's insignificant and every team brings their own balls to make them the way them like them

NFL: Fock You! WE got you now MFer.

Brady: No.. Fock you... you've "got" nothing

NFL: Give me your phone

Brady: no. you can't make me.

NFL: FINE! We don't NEED your phone

Brady: Good, cuz it's gone now... all broken

NFL: You broke the phone! How dare you?

Brady: You said you didn't need it. So you got nothin?

NFL: We've got PLENTY. See this independent report that we wrote ourselves? Is says everything we think it shoud say.

Brady: That's CRAP! No way! I'm appealing this garbage.

NFL: That's OK... b/c NFL is the arbiter! Muahahahaha!

Brady: So, I'm appealing. You've got nothin.

NFL: I have heard your appeal. I am still... errrr.... the NFL is still right!

Brady: Fock you. See you in court.

NFL. Nooooo. Fock you see you in New York Court!

Brady: Don't care... you got nothin.

NFL: Ohhh... we do... we Soooooo do.

Judge. Hello. Uhhhh... NFL, you've go Nothin!

Brady: Ha HA!!!

NFL: but.. but .... bu... bu.... 11 of 12.... Destroyed Phone... THE DEFLATOR

Judge: Nope. Nothin.

NFL: Well.... Brady wasn't nice to us... yeah, article 42, page 3... he HAS to cooperate... he HAS TO be nice.

Brady: OK... I wan't nice... but neither were you!

NFL: AH HA! GUILTY GUILTY! YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU WERE NOT NICE! BLAMO! 1 GAME!!!

[NewbieJr 541]

Brady's lawyers opened the door for "non-cooperation" last week. Seems like this is where it will all end up.

 

Brady: I didn't do anything

NFL: You did, and we know you did. $1mil fine. Draft Picks. 4 Game Suspension!! NO FOOTBALL FOR YOU!

Brady: Seriously? Even if I did what you are suggesting, it's insignificant and every team brings their own balls to make them the way them like them

NFL: Fock You! WE got you now MFer.

Brady: No.. Fock you... you've "got" nothing

NFL: Give me your phone

Brady: no. you can't make me.

NFL: FINE! We don't NEED your phone

Brady: Good, cuz it's gone now... all broken

NFL: You broke the phone! How dare you?

Brady: You said you didn't need it. So you got nothin?

NFL: We've got PLENTY. See this independent report that we wrote ourselves? Is says everything we think it shoud say.

Brady: That's CRAP! No way! I'm appealing this garbage.

NFL: That's OK... b/c NFL is the arbiter! Muahahahaha!

Brady: So, I'm appealing. You've got nothin.

NFL: I have heard your appeal. I am still... errrr.... the NFL is still right!

Brady: Fock you. See you in court.

NFL. Nooooo. Fock you see you in New York Court!

Brady: Don't care... you got nothin.

NFL: Ohhh... we do... we Soooooo do.

Judge. Hello. Uhhhh... NFL, you've go Nothin!

Brady: Ha HA!!!

NFL: but.. but .... bu... bu.... 11 of 12.... Destroyed Phone... THE DEFLATOR

Judge: Nope. Nothin.

NFL: Well.... Brady wasn't nice to us... yeah, article 42, page 3... he HAS to cooperate... he HAS TO be nice.

Brady: OK... I wan't nice... but neither were you!

NFL: AH HA! GUILTY GUILTY! YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU WERE NOT NICE! BLAMO! 1 GAME!!!

Please tell me you copied and pasted that. If you took the time to type out that pointless and unfunny bit, you may be more sad than Giants Fan.

[TD Ryan2 316]

is time spent on a message board really an indication of how sad someone is Newbie? Really?

 

It's getting even funnier... your boy Goodell got his ass handed to him in court again today...

 

Judge: There is a bit of a quantum leap from the findings of the Wells report... Brady wasn't "generally aware" of anything

NFL: Brady was not just "generally aware" he was involved!

Judge: Uhhh... nothing here proves it, nothing here even say it.

 

Judge: How did you decide on a 4 game suspension?

NFL: It was the NFL's judgement

Judge: yeah... I'm having a little trouble with that

 

Judge: You think deflation is the equivalent of steroids and masking agents?

NFL Yes

Judge: OK, that's nice... but it's not even close

[Cruzer 1,995]

So I read that Brady has agreed to accept suspension for non-cooperation, but won't admit to the findings of the Wells report. Sounds like this thing is wrapping up. Goodell should sign off on that. Even if Brady admitted that he cheated, he'd later say he was pressured and wanted to end it to prevent causing a further distraction to his team. No one in their right mind ever expected Brady to admit that he cheated. So let's play ball!

The damage is done - to all those outside of the Pats' homer circle, he cheated and lied to cover it up.... Whether or not he did, doesn't matter - it's done.

 

But back to this supposed deal... What is Brady actually going to admit to? I mean, what specifically is he going to admit he did (or didn't do) to foster non-cooperation? Which leads to another question - why didn't you do that, why didn't you cooperate?

[edjr 6,586]

Judge Berman Again Expresses Doubts In NFL’s Case Against Tom Brady

 

 

 

While Wednesday’s meeting in court between Tom Brady’s side and Roger Goodell’s side lacked the production value of last week’s fireworks, it was nevertheless a momentous day in the courtroom.

Judge Richard Berman heard arguments from both sides’ lawyers, and again he expressed serious doubts with the very foundation of the NFL’s case against Brady.

According to the New York Daily News’ Stephen Brown, aka last week’s live-tweeter, Berman remains unconvinced of the conclusions reached by Ted Wells as well as the NFL’s interpretation of the Wells report.

The NFLPA argued, on behalf of Brady, that Wells concluded only that Brady was “generally aware” of the deflation of footballs, whereas Goodell’s ruling to uphold the suspension referenced that Brady “approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of … a scheme to tamper with the game balls.”

Berman also noted that Wells’ report did not actually find Brady “generally aware” of a football deflation plan on the night of the AFC Championship Game, which was the only incident for which Brady was suspended.

Jeffrey Kessler, in his oral argument, took a shot at the NFL for the complete lack of knowledge of basic science — something that could have easily explained the deflation level in the Patriots’ footballs as well as the deflation level in the Colts’ footballs.

Judge Berman, however, did not spend much focus on the scientific argument.

The NFL’s argument remained consistent: Goodell acted within the powers granted to him by the collective-bargaining agreement, and there is simply no recourse for Brady.

According to Brown, Berman also asked what the basis was for Goodell to settle on a four-game suspension.

These questions from Berman were likely spurred from the NFLPA’s filing, which noted that no player has ever before been suspended for non-cooperation.

Berman also took aim at the NFL for likening Brady’s alleged actions to a player taking performance-enhancing drugs.

Berman appears to have given due consideration to the NFLPA’s case, because he also pressed the NFL to explain why Brady’s side was no allowed to call Jeff Pash as a witness during Brady’s appeal hearing. The NFLPA took umbrage with the inability to question Pash, considering Pash was named as a co-lead investigator and also edited the report before its public release. Pash is the NFL’s executive vice president and general counsel.

Berman set a date of Aug. 31 for the two sides to meet again in court. Brady and Goodell will both be required to attend, if the sides are unable to reach a settlement before that date.

 

 

[NewbieJr 541]

is time spent on a message board really an indication of how sad someone is Newbie? Really?

 

It's getting even funnier... your boy Goodell got his ass handed to him in court again today...

 

Judge: There is a bit of a quantum leap from the findings of the Wells report... Brady wasn't "generally aware" of anything

NFL: Brady was not just "generally aware" he was involved!

Judge: Uhhh... nothing here proves it, nothing here even say it.

 

Judge: How did you decide on a 4 game suspension?

NFL: It was the NFL's judgement

Judge: yeah... I'm having a little trouble with that

 

Judge: You think deflation is the equivalent of steroids and masking agents?

NFL Yes

Judge: OK, that's nice... but it's not even close

Kraft already admitted the cheating. All the judge is determining at this point is if the NFL had enough proof to say Brady is the one who gave the orders to deflate. That's it. It's not about whether or not they cheated. It's Brady's role. Or, proof of his role. We all know his role.

[NewbieJr 541]

The damage is done - to all those outside of the Pats' homer circle, he cheated and lied to cover it up.... Whether or not he did, doesn't matter - it's done.

 

But back to this supposed deal... What is Brady actually going to admit to? I mean, what specifically is he going to admit he did (or didn't do) to foster non-cooperation? Which leads to another question - why didn't do that, why didn't you cooperate?

Brady is a smart guy. He knows how people look at Barry Bonds' accomplishments now. It's the only reason he's fighting tooth and nail to not admit his involvement. People hate a cheater. And if the league agrees to settle with him only having to admit failure to cooperate, he's hoping to get a little bit of credibility back. Unfortunately, only Patriot fans will give it to him.

[edjr 6,586]

Kraft already admitted the cheating.

 

[NewbieJr 541]

 

Link to him fighting the two draft picks and fine?

 

When you accept that quickly without a fight, you are admitting guilt. Sorry if that goes against you and your fellow blind homers insistence on always thinking they are always just being picked on.

[cbfalcon 825]

Link to him fighting the two draft picks and fine?

 

When you accept that quickly without a fight, you are admitting guilt. Sorry if that goes against you and your fellow blind homers insistence on always thinking they are always just being picked on.

 

So Kraft should have fought the penalty? Maybe appealed? Then sued? That would indicate innocence in your mind?

[cbfalcon 825]

U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman warned an NFL lawyer during oral arguments that there was precedent for judges to toss out penalties issued by arbitrators in the scandal now known as ''Deflategate.''

 

Berman cited several weaknesses in the way the NFL handled the controversy that could result in a victory by Brady and the NFL Players Association.

 

.......

 

During more than two hours of arguments by attorneys, the judge noted other arbitration decisions have been rejected when a key witness was not allowed to testify as he questioned why NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash - who worked on the NFL investigation - could not be interviewed by union lawyers during the suspension's appeal.

 

Berman said arbitration proceedings, while more relaxed than court proceedings, are still required to follow due process rules to ensure fairness.

 

He said a reference to the Jan. 18 game against the Indianapolis Colts was ''conspicuously absent'' in a conclusion from the NFL investigation that found Brady was generally aware of a plot to deflate game balls below what rules allow.

 

Finally, Berman said he could not understand how the commissioner opted to keep a four-game suspension over some other penalty. He asked what portion of it was for involvement in a deflated football scheme and what part was because Goodell concluded Brady didn't cooperate with the probe. He also was troubled by Goodell's defense of the penalty on the grounds that it was comparable to penalties on players who use performance enhancing drugs

 

 

This judge is clearly a biased Patriots fan, and not nearly as wise as to how systems for determining guilt should work as Newbie and ShoNuff. He is a hack.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

So Kraft should have fought the penalty? Maybe appealed? Then sued? That would indicate innocence in your mind?

We both know that Kraft knows exactly what happened (as do you and I) and he thought that just accepting the penalty without a fight would make Goodell have some leniency on Brady.

[cbfalcon 825]

We both know that Kraft knows exactly what happened (as do you and I) and he thought that just accepting the penalty without a fight would make Goodell have some leniency on Brady.

 

So you not only know what you know....but you know what I know and what Kraft knows. Impressive. Sometimes I forget how intelligent you are.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

So you not only know what you know....but you know what I know and what Kraft knows. Impressive. Sometimes I forget how intelligent you are.

You don't think Kraft knows what happened?

[NewbieJr 541]

 

This judge is clearly a biased Patriots fan, and not nearly as wise as to how systems for determining guilt should work as Newbie and ShoNuff. He is a hack.

If the judge decides that the NFL botched things so badly that it has no choice but to throw out the suspension, then I have no problem with the judge. I just don't want you, or anyone else, to confuse that with Brady being innocent. The NFL botching the investigation doesn't negate The Deflator, the ball boys sneaking into the bathroom between the inspection and taking the balls where they belonged, or Brady destroying his phone.

It simply means the NFL didn't handle things correctly. Just as MLB didn't handle Ryan Braun's urine sample correctly. That didn't suddenly mean Braun wasn't plunging a syringe in his ass every day.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

So you not only know what you know....but you know what I know and what Kraft knows. Impressive. Sometimes I forget how intelligent you are.

[edjr 6,586]

If the judge decides that the NFL botched things so badly that it has no choice but to throw out the suspension, then I have no problem with the judge. I just don't want you, or anyone else, to confuse that with Brady being innocent. The NFL botching the investigation doesn't negate The Deflator, the ball boys sneaking into the bathroom between the inspection and taking the balls where they belonged, or Brady destroying his phone.

It simply means the NFL didn't handle things correctly. Just as MLB didn't handle Ryan Braun's urine sample correctly. That didn't suddenly mean Braun wasn't plunging a syringe in his ass every day.

 

OJ was innocent

[NewbieJr 541]

 

OJ was innocent

Good example. The officer who found the bloody glove was suspended prior to that for using the n-word. Which, of course, planted immediate suspicion in the black jury's mind. Got OJ off. But didn't mean he wasn't a murderer.

[DankNuggs 305]

I've been in mediation settlements before... basically the judge/mediator goes to both sides one at a time and says: "listen, you are going to lose this case if it goes all the way to arbitration, you better figure out what you can give up or it could go bad for you"

 

I presume Brady's side saying maybe a game, but no admission of guilt, was that line in the sand.

 

I can understand why the NFL won't budge, because its simply optics, and having an arbitrator strike it down is stronger than a perceived admission you overstepped your bounds again.

[DankNuggs 305]

If the judge decides that the NFL botched things so badly that it has no choice but to throw out the suspension, then I have no problem with the judge. I just don't want you, or anyone else, to confuse that with Brady being innocent. The NFL botching the investigation doesn't negate The Deflator, the ball boys sneaking into the bathroom between the inspection and taking the balls where they belonged, or Brady destroying his phone.

It simply means the NFL didn't handle things correctly. Just as MLB didn't handle Ryan Braun's urine sample correctly. That didn't suddenly mean Braun wasn't plunging a syringe in his ass every day.

what specifically was 'botched' ??? again, they found no evidence, so there wasn't anything they could have done differently besides Goddell simply laying out a punishment to fit the investigation findings and lack of precedent.

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

This judge is clearly a biased Patriots fan, and not nearly as wise as to how systems for determining guilt should work as Newbie and ShoNuff. He is a hack.

 

No...though, he seems to be going beyond the scope of determining if the appeal was fair (some of what he said about Pash had to do with that).

His opinion on if deflating a ball after inspection is the same as PEDs is just that...an opinion that has little to do with legality.

 

Looks better now for Brady for sure. But we will see where this goes.

 

BTW...he has yet to say Brady is innocent of anything. he has said no more than I have already said and admitted. That there is no direct evidence of it. I have never stated there was.

So nice try bringing me back up gobbler.

[Sho Nuff 720]

what specifically was 'botched' ??? again, they found no evidence, so there wasn't anything they could have done differently besides Goddell simply laying out a punishment to fit the investigation findings and lack of precedent.

 

Not letting the interview Pash.

The leaks.

Some wording in it was a bit of it that was botched.

There is circumstantial evidence (not no evidence as you say...incorrectly).

He should not have laid out 4 games...and they should have presented and communicated better to keep some of what the judge has hit them for out of all of it.

[edjr 6,586]

 

No...though, he seems to be going beyond the scope of determining if the appeal was fair (some of what he said about Pash had to do with that).

His opinion on if deflating a ball after inspection is the same as PEDs is just that...an opinion that has little to do with legality.

 

Looks better now for Brady for sure. But we will see where this goes.

 

BTW...he has yet to say Brady is innocent of anything. he has said no more than I have already said and admitted. That there is no direct evidence of it. I have never stated there was.

So nice try bringing me back up ###### gobbler.

 

 

[NewbieJr 541]

what specifically was 'botched' ??? again, they found no evidence, so there wasn't anything they could have done differently besides Goddell simply laying out a punishment to fit the investigation findings and lack of precedent.

For months I've been hearing you sissies say that Goodell was caught lying. That's not true now?

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

It's obvious the judge wants a settlement, because I don't see how he gets past the fact that the NFLPA agreed to let Goodell hear the appeal and levy the punishment. I don't think he can split the difference himself, so he wants them to do it.

[edjr 6,586]

It's obvious the judge wants a settlement, because I don't see how he gets past the fact that the NFLPA agreed to let Goodell hear the appeal and levy the punishment. I don't think he can split the difference himself, so he wants them to do it.

 

100% correct.

 

it's all or nothing (if the judge has to rule)

[TD Ryan2 316]

It's obvious the judge wants a settlement, because I don't see how he gets past the fact that the NFLPA agreed to let Goodell hear the appeal and levy the punishment. I don't think he can split the difference himself, so he wants them to do it.

 

the Judge doesn't think the appeal was "fair' nor was "due process" granted because NFLPA was not allowed to call Pash, the editor of the Wells Report, as a witness. The NFL withheld a key witness and by doing so prevented the NFLPA from defending themselves in arbitration.

 

Berman has ripped the NFL from both a procedural and an evidence standpoint.

 

He has wanted both sides to settle from the beginning, but now it really looks like he's telling the NFL if they don't settle, they are going to lose big.

Legal experts are speculating that If Goodell doesn't settle and loses, a precedent will be set that makes it easy for any players to challenge Goodell's discipline rulings in the future.

[cbfalcon 825]

 

No...though, he seems to be going beyond the scope of determining if the appeal was fair (some of what he said about Pash had to do with that).

His opinion on if deflating a ball after inspection is the same as PEDs is just that...an opinion that has little to do with legality.

 

Looks better now for Brady for sure. But we will see where this goes.

 

BTW...he has yet to say Brady is innocent of anything. he has said no more than I have already said and admitted. That there is no direct evidence of it. I have never stated there was.

So nice try bringing me back up ###### gobbler.

 

Giving you a hard time aside....My opinion isn't that far from yours as stated in this post.

 

Where we differ is this.......I have a hard time ruining a man's reputation, going above and beyond all prior precedent, and possibly robbing him and his team of an entire season (let's not act like losing Brady for 4 games couldn't turn an 11-5 season into 8-8 quite easily) when:

- The evidence of the balls even being deflated more than the Colts is in some question.

- If they were, the evidence of any purposeful act as it relates to this game is mostly limited to the fact that there was a 90 second window of opportunity (7 seconds per ball)

- there is no direct evidence of Brady being involved at all

- The strongest circumstantial evidence of Brady's involvement involves the league lying, twisting, or omitting facts

- Even if guilty, to me, it's the same as stickem on gloves, too long of cleats, etc.

 

Did Brady do it? I don't know. And I'm not saying this to be a smartass....From an intellectual point of view, if we eliminate the false leaks, things that we now know were lies, and loud headlines and then actually look at the actual evidence, I truly don't comprehend how someone that is being objective can look at this and feel confident that Tom Brady was involved in the deflating of footballs for the AFC Championship game.......And from an emotional point of view, I truly don't comprehend how someone can acknowledge that the league lied, misled, botched the investigation, edited reports, ignored possibly crucial evidence, didn't allow for a proper appeal, etc, but still trust that same league to be trustworthy as far as their opinions and judgement in all other matters related to the case. On a human level, it bothers me a great deal.

 

Anyway, there goes my serious and sensitive post.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

 

the Judge doesn't think the appeal was "fair' nor was "due process" granted because NFLPA was not allowed to call Pash, the editor of the Wells Report, as a witness. The NFL withheld a key witness and by doing so prevented the NFLPA from defending themselves in arbitration.

 

Berman has ripped the NFL from both a procedural and an evidence standpoint.

 

He has wanted both sides to settle from the beginning, but now it really looks like he's telling the NFL if they don't settle, they are going to lose big.

Legal experts are speculating that If Goodell doesn't settle and loses, a precedent will be set that makes it easy for any players to challenge Goodell's discipline rulings in the future.

If that's the case then Brady shouldn't settle.