New details on how the Pats used Spygate info...

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

 

"The ESPN story goes into detail about how the Patriots allegedly used the taped information, highlighting a 2000 game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. In the preseason, the Patriots allegedly taped the Buccaneers' defensive signals. New England played Tampa Bay in the season opener. Backup quarterback John Friesz was told to memorize the signals in the preseason film, watch the Bucs' signals from the sideline during the regular-season game, relay the defensive play to offensive coordinator Charlie Weis who would relay them to then-starting quarterback Drew Bledsoe, ESPN reported. Although the Patriots lost that game, ESPN said the Patriots knew 75 percent of the Buccaneers' defenses that day and the Pats "realized that they were on to something."

 

A former Patriots assistant, who wasn't named, told ESPN the system of videotaping signals and cataloging signals "got out of control."

 

Maybe the most shocking tale comes deep in the story, after all the descriptions of the Patriots' spying, when former New England coaches and employees are cited as describing an even more effective cheating system. "Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team's offense."

 

So for years we've heard Pats fans state how what the Pats were doing couldn't help the team much.

 

Congrats on the *4 Superbowls New England.

[murf74 461]

What a farce. How about Goodell sweeping spy gate away as most logical minded people knew when he destroyed evidence. Now we know he pressured owners and coaches to tie the company line when discussing it

 

You really have to wonder how much ylthe pats have done under Belicheay us on the up and up

[DaBeerz 88]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

 

"The ESPN story goes into detail about how the Patriots allegedly used the taped information, highlighting a 2000 game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. In the preseason, the Patriots allegedly taped the Buccaneers' defensive signals. New England played Tampa Bay in the season opener. Backup quarterback John Friesz was told to memorize the signals in the preseason film, watch the Bucs' signals from the sideline during the regular-season game, relay the defensive play to offensive coordinator Charlie Weis who would relay them to then-starting quarterback Drew Bledsoe, ESPN reported. Although the Patriots lost that game, ESPN said the Patriots knew 75 percent of the Buccaneers' defenses that day and the Pats "realized that they were on to something."

 

A former Patriots assistant, who wasn't named, told ESPN the system of videotaping signals and cataloging signals "got out of control."

 

Maybe the most shocking tale comes deep in the story, after all the descriptions of the Patriots' spying, when former New England coaches and employees are cited as describing an even more effective cheating system. "Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team's offense."

 

So for years we've heard Pats fans state how what the Pats were doing couldn't help the team much.

 

Congrats on the *4 Superbowls New England.

 

HAHAH in before angry Pats fans demand evidence and try to discredit this thread. Are any of the Pats superbowls not tainted with some sort of scandal?

 

No wonder they were able to shut down the rams - they knew exactly what plays were coming.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

How much are they STILL doing? If I were a team visiting at Foxboro, I'd bring in a team of electronic experts to sweep for listening/video devices.

[murf74 461]

Gotta wonder why Bill is so desperate to win at all costs. This will be a huge problem when HOF votes any of these guys in.

[Maulers1973 117]

As I said in the other thread. Goodell = dill hole.

 

You guys are starting to look bad too. I mean, the horse is dead, yo.

[PATSSOX 22]

How much are they STILL doing? If I were a team visiting at Foxboro, I'd bring in a team of electronic experts to sweep for listening/video devices.

 

I would too Dirty Sanchez no doubt. What ever the Patriots and Belichick did or did not do it sure as hell worked and has teams and players paranoid as hell. We got our drinks too warm

 

The article is worse for the NFL.

 

The only thing i found really interesting was the level, the article makes is sound, the NFL went to cover up what the Patriots may have done. Think most knew/thought the taping had gone on for longer than they said. You combine that with all the winning and you are going to get alot of people who dont like you and alot of sour grapes by the "anonymous" sources. Im not big Bill Polian fan but atleast he had the balls to put his name with the quote.

 

BTW The "Shot Heard Round the World" was hit partly because Thompson had the signs. Belichick just took the sign stealing to the 21st century.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

As I said in the other thread. Goodell = dill hole.

 

You guys are starting to look bad too. I mean, the horse is dead, yo.

 

The horse is dead? Uh, nope.

 

We haven't heard these details before and quite frankly it's so much worse than the NFL let on back then. It's also very relevant as to why Goddell tried giving Brady so many games off.

[Socnorb11 7]

As I said in the other thread. Goodell = dill hole.

 

You guys are starting to look bad too. I mean, the horse is dead, yo.

 

 

I'm not even sure what this means.

 

This is NEW, relevant information. A new stallion, you might say........ yo.

[Socnorb11 7]

 

I would too Dirty Sanchez no doubt. What ever the Patriots and Belichick did or did not do it sure as hell worked and has teams and players paranoid as hell. We got our drinks too warm

 

The article is worse for the NFL.

 

The only thing i found really interesting was the level, the article makes is sound, the NFL went to cover up what the Patriots may have done. Think most knew/thought the taping had gone on for longer than they said. You combine that with all the winning and you are going to get alot of people who dont like you and alot of sour grapes by the "anonymous" sources. Im not big Bill Polian fan but atleast he had the balls to put his name with the quote.

 

BTW The "Shot Heard Round the World" was hit partly because Thompson had the signs. Belichick just took the sign stealing to the 21st century.

 

 

Sure, the league looks bad, too. I doubt if anyone really cares about that so much, though. The NFL legacy will survive just fine, beyond this. The Patriots' legacy is on a little more shaky ground, and this doesn't help at all.

[PATSSOX 22]

 

The horse is dead? Uh, nope.

 

We haven't heard these details before and quite frankly it's so much worse than the NFL let on back then. It's also very relevant as to why Goddell tried giving Brady so many games off.

 

Like said in other post it looks worse for the NFL not Patriots. Did you really think the Patriots only made what was it 6 tapes? And now all these annoymous sources are mad? I would love to see the sources actually come out and see what happens.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

 

Like said in other post it looks worse for the NFL not Patriots. Did you really think the Patriots only made what was it 6 tapes? And now all these annoymous sources are mad? I would love to see the sources actually come out and see what happens.

 

This is the first I've heard of ANYONE putting in writing just how helpful it was to the Pats. Knowing like 75% of an opponent's game plan? Also, that bit about stealing play sheets is new and quite damning to Belichick's and all the Pats (even Tommy Boy's) legacies.

 

Sorry man; you can't down play this as 'nothing new'.

[parrot 789]

 

This is the first I've heard of ANYONE putting in writing just how helpful it was to the Pats. Knowing like 75% of an opponent's game plan?

 

Right, based on the statements of a tape tech repeating the supposed statements of a backup QB regarding one game seven years in the past. The Pats gave up 6 sacks in that game and went 4-17 on 3rd down - but discovered a "schematic edge".

[Socnorb11 7]

 

Right, based on the statements of a tape tech repeating the supposed statements of a backup QB regarding one game seven years in the past. The Pats gave up 6 sacks in that game and went 4-17 on 3rd down - but discovered a "schematic edge".

 

The Patriots obviously wish it were as simple as this.

[Socnorb11 7]

The cameramen’s assignments differed depending on the opponent. For instance, Walsh told investigators that against Indianapolis he was directed to take close-ups of the Colts’ offensive signals, then of Peyton Manning’s hand signals. Mostly, though, the tapes were of defensive signals. Each video sequence would usually include three shots: the down and distance, the signal, and, as an in-house joke, a tight shot of a cheerleader’s top or skirt. The tape was then often edited, sources say, so that Adams’ copy contained only the signals, in rapid fire, one after another. According to investigators, Walsh once asked Adams, “Are the tapes up to standards?”

 

“You’re doing a good job,” Adams said. “But make sure that you get everyone who’s giving signals, even dummy signals.”

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2015/09/08/peyton-manning-colts-were-among-patriots-spying-victims-according-to-report/35367/

[PATSSOX 22]

 

 

Sure, the league looks bad, too. I doubt if anyone really cares about that so much, though. The NFL legacy will survive just fine, beyond this. The Patriots' legacy is on a little more shaky ground, and this doesn't help at all.

 

 

 

This is the first I've heard of ANYONE putting in writing just how helpful it was to the Pats. Knowing like 75% of an opponent's game plan? Also, that bit about stealing play sheets is new and quite damning to Belichick's and all the Pats (even Tommy Boy's) legacies.

 

Sorry man; you can't down play this as 'nothing new'.

 

 

Dont forgot about them digging through the garbage and delivery warm drinks too. I can accuse you of manipulating the waiver wire and deleting the time stamps but does that make it true?

 

I know they filmed coaches to figure out what plays their opponents may run. Did they have a sophisticated library with teams and coaches signs? Sounds like it but id expect that. If you know the signals then yes id expect they get 75% of plays right

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

 

Right, based on the statements of a tape tech repeating the supposed statements of a backup QB regarding one game seven years in the past. The Pats gave up 6 sacks in that game and went 4-17 on 3rd down - but discovered a "schematic edge".

 

Ah..................so either it did give them a schematic edge therefore they continued it or Belichick is a complete dumba$$ to continue and amplify something that gave him no edge? Ha; nice try.

[Socnorb11 7]

 

 

 

 

Dont forgot about them digging through the garbage and delivery warm drinks too. I can accuse you of manipulating the waiver wire and deleting the time stamps but does that make it true?

 

I know they filmed coaches to figure out what plays their opponents may run. Did they have a sophisticated library with teams and coaches signs? Sounds like it but id expect that. If you know the signals then yes id expect they get 75% of plays right

 

 

You have no chance of trivializing this. It's a big deal, and no judge can make it go away.

[PATSSOX 22]

Teams were allowed to use head sets to communicate with their defensive player in what 2008? So there where no more signs to steal. You would expect the Patriots to start losing right?

 

Since 2010 lets take a look. Wow they have won 7 more games than anyone else. hmmmmmm

                                                      Average Super
                                                              Opp   margin  Bowl
                                                        Pts/  Pts/    of    Record
  Location       Team         WN  LS  T  PCT   GB  C/D  Game  Game  Victory W L
  =============  ==========  === === == ==== ===== ===  ====  ====  =====   = =
  New England    Patriots     70  21  0  769  ___  A/E  31.1  20.7   10.4   1 1
  Green Bay      Packers      62  27  1  694   7   N/N  28.3  21.7    6.6   1 0
  Baltimore      Ravens       59  31  0  656  10½  A/N  23.8  19.4    4.4   1 0
  Seattle        Seahawks     57  33  0  633  12½  N/W  23.8  18.6    5.2   1 1
  San Francisco  49ers        55  32  1  631  13   N/W  22.9  18.8    4.1   0 1
  Pittsburgh     Steelers     53  32  0  624  14   A/N  23.2  19.3    3.8   0 1
  Denver         Broncos      53  34  0  609  15   A/W  27.2  24.2    3     0 1  
  New Orleans    Saints       51  34  0  600  16   N/S  27.8  23.3    4.5
  Atlanta        Falcons      47  37  0  560  19½  N/S  24.4  22.9    1.4
  Indianapolis   Colts        48  39  0  552  20   A/S  23.4  24.2    -.8
  New York       Giants       45  39  0  536  21½  N/E  23.7  23       .8   1 0
  Cincinnati     Bengals      44  39  1  530  22   A/N  22.6  21.3    1.3
  San Diego      Chargers     43  39  0  524  22½  A/W  24.2  21.7    2.5
  Dallas         Cowboys      43  39  0  524  22½  N/E  25.5  24.5     .9
  Chicago        Bears        43  39  0  524  22½  N/N  22.9  22.8     .1
  Philadelphia   Eagles       42  40  0  512  23½  N/E  25.3  24.1    1.1
  Houston        Texans       41  43  0  488  25½  A/S  22.9  22.1     .8
  Arizona        Cardinals    39  42  0  481  26   N/W  19.2  22.1   -2.9
  Kansas City    Chiefs       39  43  0  476  26½  A/W  19.8  21.3   -1.5
  New York       Jets         39  44  0  470  27   A/E  20    22.7   -2.7
  Detroit        Lions        38  44  0  463  27½  N/N  24    23.4     .6
  Miami          Dolphins     36  44  0  450  28½  A/E  19.9  20.9   -1  
  Carolina       Panthers     35  47  1  428  30½  N/S  20.7  22.7   -2  
  Minnesota      Vikings      31  49  1  389  33½  N/N  21.3  24.6   -3.3
  Buffalo        Bills        31  49  0  388  33½  A/E  21    24.6   -3.6
  Tennessee      Titans       30  50  0  375  34½  A/S  20.3  24.3   -4  
  St. Louis      Rams         29  50  1  369  35   N/W  18.1  22.5   -4.4
  Washington     Redskins     28  53  0  346  37   N/E  20.7  25.6   -4.9
  Tampa Bay      Buccaneers   27  53  0  338  37½  N/S  19.8  25.1   -5.3
  Oakland        Raiders      27  53  0  338  37½  A/W  20.4  26.9   -6.5
  Cleveland      Browns       25  55  0  313  39½  A/N  17.5  21.9   -4.4
  Jacksonville   Jaguars      22  58  0  275  42½  A/S  16.8  25.7   -8.8

[doggiestyles 1]

To me it doesn't matter if it helped. Successful or not its wrong. It is what it is, Cheating. Arguing it didn't help them is not an argument. They were caught cheating period.

[PATSSOX 22]

 

 

You have no chance of trivializing this. It's a big deal, and no judge can make it go away.

 

The only one that a judge can get cause of this is the NFL if im not mistaken not the Patriots?

[murf74 461]

It got bigger today. New scandal of going into unattended lockers for playbook info. Goodell ordering hush of owners and coaches and destroying of tapes. A span of 7 years. The little legacy the Pats were holding onto is slowly flushing away

[Socnorb11 7]

 

The only one that a judge can get cause of this is the NFL if im not mistaken not the Patriots?

 

 

Yeah, this one is entirely submitted to the court of public opinion, I believe. In other words, it's not going away with the swing of a gavel this time.

[DaBeerz 88]

 

This is the first I've heard of ANYONE putting in writing just how helpful it was to the Pats. Knowing like 75% of an opponent's game plan? Also, that bit about stealing play sheets is new and quite damning to Belichick's and all the Pats (even Tommy Boy's) legacies.

 

Sorry man; you can't down play this as 'nothing new'.

 

Legacies be damned, I don't think either of them give a , they just want to win 5 superbowls. Then they can swagger around and say "prove it" which by now too much time has passed and clearly they can't prove it (unfortunately). BB will just say his usual "we've moved on from (spygate) it so should you".

 

Both will be first round HOF candidates unfortunately, unless one of them literally gets caught holding a smoking gun.

[PATSSOX 22]

 

 

You have no chance of trivializing this. It's a big deal, and no judge can make it go away.

 

Wish we had Moss and a defense and they would go 16-0 again and then choke in the biggest game

 

 

 

[iam90sbaby 2,611]

If I was a Pats fan I would be completely embarrassed. How does one even feel good about winning if you cheated? This goes beyond steroid use (which is cheating to) this is an entire organization cheating for a decade. There is a method to the commish's madness, he let Brady and Bill get off easy with Spygate, now he is trying to slam them for Deflategate. There is nothing in the rule book for punishment for this, they should lose an entire draft or something.

[Socnorb11 7]

 

Legacies be damned, I don't think either of them give a ######, they just want to win 5 superbowls. Then they can swagger around and say "prove it" which by now too much time has passed and clearly they can't prove it (unfortunately). BB will just say his usual "we've moved on from (spygate) it so should you".

 

Both will be first round HOF candidates unfortunately, unless one of them literally gets caught holding a smoking gun.

 

 

Sure. Lance Armstrong won all of those bicycle races too, so that's all that matters.

[PATSSOX 22]

It got bigger today. New scandal of going into unattended lockers for playbook info. Goodell ordering hush of owners and coaches and destroying of tapes. A span of 7 years. The little legacy the Pats were holding onto is slowly flushing away

 

This is the biggest thing to come out of today.

 

Again the rest is "anonymous" sources saying what they think might have happened cause they got beat. And ill say that until some actually people come out on the record and allow others to ask them questions. Until then it may or may not be just mind games.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

If I was a Pats fan I would be completely embarrassed. How does one even feel good about winning if you cheated? This goes beyond steroid use (which is cheating to) this is an entire organization cheating for a decade. This is a method to the commish's madness, he let Brady and Bill get off easy with Spygate, now he is trying to slam them for Deflategate. There is nothing in the rule book for punishment for this, they should lose an entire draft or something.

 

Vacate the SB wins. Plain and simple.

 

 

 

Sure. Lance Armstrong won all of those bicycle races too, so that's all that matters.

 

Lance won but had them all vacated just as the Pats SBs should be.

 

Disgusting that people are defending it or downplaying it. Makes you wonder how they conduct themselves in everyday life.

[iam90sbaby 2,611]

The funny part is, they still lost two Super Bowls. AND they were cheating. This taints everything. Ban Brady and ol' Billdo from the HOF its the only resolution. The HOF is full of noble, great players, not cheaters. End of story.

[PATSSOX 22]

 

Vacate the SB wins. Plain and simple.

 

 

Lance won but had them all vacated just as the Pats SBs should be.

 

Disgusting that people are defending it or downplaying it. Makes you wonder how they conduct themselves in everyday life.

 

 

I forgot if it is on the internet is has to be true

 

Anyone remember this??

 

[iam90sbaby 2,611]

The only reason I disagree with you Filthy is because then we are left without a SB champion. They won the Super Bowls, take their HOF eligibility away. Can you guys imagine if they actually did go undefeated and beat the Giants? It would taint this even more..... So in reality:

 

Kurt Warner is a 2 time SB champ (probably finished career with Rams)

Hasselbeck is a SB champion

Philly has their first and only SB.

[iam90sbaby 2,611]

PATSSOX if you were a fan of any other team you would agree with everyone else, so cut the BS, your just making yourself look like a fool.

[ZeroTolerance 584]

The Patriots cheated, a lot.

Goodell is a colossal fock-up who should have been canned after he botched that entire debacle, and HAS TO be fired after this mess.

Deflategate was relatively pointless, but it does make Brady look bad. Not some stupid "he wouldn't be a great QB if he didn't do this", just "questionable integrity, awful at lying".

[tanatastic 2,062]

Bottom line for me. Taping practices, having tuck rule made up to shoehorn them into the sb and deflategate are bad. But Pats sneaking into lockerrooms and stealing play sheets = They have won 0 SB. I cant even think of a franchise more tainted than this in football.

[iam90sbaby 2,611]

I've been tapping my leaguemates mock drafts for years though, so I can kind of relate

[Mike Nice 40]

Over 8 years ago and all of a sudden this stuff comes out, right after the nfl loses deflate gate...hmmmmmmm

 

Someone is getting desperate

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Over 8 years ago and all of a sudden this stuff comes out, right after the nfl loses deflate gate...hmmmmmmm

 

Someone is getting desperate

 

STILL defending their team in light of all this mounting evidence against them. Someone is getting desperate.

[Socnorb11 7]

Over 8 years ago and all of a sudden this stuff comes out, right after the nfl loses deflate gate...hmmmmmmm

 

Someone is getting desperate

 

 

Sure, the NFL has known for 8 years that this report would look bad for the league. They didn't want it made public, obviously. Do you blame them?

 

That all changed after Spygate though, obviously.

[PATSSOX 22]

PATSSOX if you were a fan of any other team you would agree with everyone else, so cut the BS, your just making yourself look like a fool.

 

 

Im not denying that they filmed coaches and been saying through this entire post that thought it was pretty clear they did alot more than what the NFL originally said.

 

If you are calling me a fool for calling BS on these "anonymous" sources then yes i am a fool. Anyone who has followed the circus for the last 7 months should know not to trust reports until it is proven. Along with the report that ESPN appologized for in the video above one of their reports left a false tweet up for months after it was known that the information in it was wrong.

 

So until these sources actually come out and tell how they know this then i am sticking to what i know. The Patriots filmed coaches/players to try to get their plays.

 

So if you do not see my reasoning then you are the one looking like a fool. How many times can people report false information before people will question it? I dont trust anyone