Minimum wage increase is killing restaurants. Great job liberals.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Tipping = 15-30% taxation

Except the vast majority of tips are never taxed, because they are never reported.

 

When I ran a restaurant, you had to enter your tips on the time clock. the new servers would ask me how much they should report. I said, "that's between you and the IRS. None of my business."

 

Then an older server would come have a conference with them.

 

Tipping is stupid as an institution. Isn't practiced in most of the world. Here, if I get REALLY good service, I will try to give one, they will chase me to give it back.

[giraldi02 470]

Except the vast majority of tips are never taxed, because they are never reported.

 

When I ran a restaurant, you had to enter your tips on the time clock. the new servers would ask me how much they should report. I said, "that's between you and the IRS. None of my business."

 

Then an older server would come have a conference with them.

 

Tipping is stupid as an institution. Isn't practiced in most of the world. Here, if I get REALLY good service, I will try to give one, they will chase me to give it back.

I'm saying it's a tax on the consumer.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I'm saying it's a tax on the consumer.

Ah. Yes. True.

 

I was referring to the fact that it's trillions that go unreported. But you're right.

[giraldi02 470]

Ah. Yes. True.

 

I was referring to the fact that it's trillions that go unreported. But you're right.

Oh I definitely agree with the unreported aspect. When I worked as a busser we never had to report anything. The waitresses would report about 60% of their tips. At best.

[Strike 3,979]

So in Maine the Libs decided the min. wage had to be increased and passed a referendum. It raised both the tipped and non tipped minimum wage to $12/hr by 2024. Turns out the tipped workers didn't want anyone messing with their pay scale. They would prefer you stay the fock out of their business. Fortunately, they got the tipped portion of the law repealed.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/27/maine-tried-to-raise-its-minimum-wage-restaurant-workers-didnt-want-it/?utm_term=.bce94c35e654

 

Seems like a good idea to separate cashier's at Mcdonalds from servers at high end restaurants when passing these laws, doesn't it?

[edjr 5,567]

So in Maine the Libs decided the min. wage had to be increased and passed a referendum. It raised both the tipped and non tipped minimum wage to $12/hr by 2024. Turns out the tipped workers didn't want anyone messing with their pay scale. They would prefer you stay the fock out of their business. Fortunately, they got the tipped portion of the law repealed.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/27/maine-tried-to-raise-its-minimum-wage-restaurant-workers-didnt-want-it/?utm_term=.bce94c35e654

 

Seems like a good idea to separate cashier's at Mcdonalds from servers at high end restaurants when passing these laws, doesn't it?

 

totally.

 

Which is what I have been saying all along.

 

if you're a server at the right restaurant, you make bank.

 

Enough to even post here.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

totally.

 

Which is what I have been saying all along.

 

if you're a server at the right restaurant, you make bank.

 

Enough to even post here.

I made $55,000 managing the Waffle House (granted, that is a sixty-seventy hour week). My best servers out earned me in 40 hours. And mine was taxed and most of theirs wasn't.

 

The cooks were the ones getting focked. That's a hard ass job for 8-10 bucks an hour.

[edjr 5,567]

I made $55,000 managing the Waffle House (granted, that is a sixty-seventy hour week). My best servers out earned me in 40 hours. And mine was taxed and most of theirs wasn't.

 

The cooks were the ones getting focked. That's a hard ass job for 8-10 bucks an hour.

 

She would much prefer be a server instead of manage.

 

the cooks at my chicks restaurant make 12 to 18 and it's UTT

 

Still not a job I'd want, those fockers work hard and go a good job and work 40+ hours a week (no OT)

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

She would much prefer be a server instead of manage.

 

the cooks at my chicks restaurant make 12 to 18 and it's UTT

 

Still not a job I'd want, those fockers work hard and go a good job and work 40+ hours a week (no OT)

 

Of course, I was also paying $500 a month for health insurance for just myself. They were on Tenncare.

 

I was losing my house. They were on Section 8.

 

Work hard they said. Go to college they said. I wish I could go have a chat with 18 year old me.

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

 

She would much prefer be a server instead of manage.

 

 

Sounds like an overachiever.

[giraldi02 470]

 

Sounds like an overachiever.

It's economically sound if you're going to making (relatively) the same amount of money. Fall into a lower tax bracket and have less responsibility all while making close to the same amount of money.

 

I worked as a manager, albeit not in a restaurant, for about 5 years. I couldn't stand it, despite the additional benefits and higher pay. The responsibility aspect I liked. I didn't like the administrative side though. Just wasn't my thing when it came time to removing someone from the workplace.

[crackattack 513]

Fock em. These businesses have basically been running with subsidized labor forever. Waitresses via tips, and all of them by virtue of the fact that a huge proportion of full time restaurant workers are also on food stamps or other public assistance. So the taxpayers are footing part of the bill for restaurants payroll.

 

Can't afford to pay your employees decently? Then your business isn't viable. Close the damn doors.

Real interesting take. Just so I understand it correctly. A small business owner, who might employ 10 people at 8$ an hour, isn't viable? That same small business owner makes, let's say 100,000 a year take home for himself.

 

Now, by no means is the owner "wealthy". The owner also employed 10 people who might work a second job, or could be college kids, or teens. So, just because that small business owner can't do 15$ an hour, it's not viable?? I bet the employee's would beg to differ. Not counting that's the American dream. Own a small business, work for yourself, etc etc.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Real interesting take. Just so I understand it correctly. A small business owner, who might employ 10 people at 8$ an hour, isn't viable? That same small business owner makes, let's say 100,000 a year take home for himself.

 

Now, by no means is the owner "wealthy". The owner also employed 10 people who might work a second job, or could be college kids, or teens. So, just because that small business owner can't do 15$ an hour, it's not viable?? I bet the employee's would beg to differ. Not counting that's the American dream. Own a small business, work for yourself, etc etc.

 

If the employer is gaining labor, and not bearing the cost of said labor, instead passing it off to the taxpayer and his customers in the form of tips, then he is being subsidized.

 

If he cannot operate without those subsidies, then no, his business is not viable.

 

Just like if solar power cannot operate without the government teat, it is not viable.

 

Same damn thing.

[crackattack 513]

 

If the employer is gaining labor, and not bearing the cost of said labor, instead passing it off to the taxpayer and his customers in the form of tips, then he is being subsidized.

 

If he cannot operate without those subsidies, then no, his business is not viable.

 

Just like if solar power cannot operate without the government teat, it is not viable.

 

Same damn thing.

Ok. So anything getting subsidized, or help from the "government teat", isn't viable, and should be shut down. That's a lot of government programs(ACA,Medicare, Medicaid), government institutions (post office, DMV, schools, colleges), businesses, and people themselves. People who receive government aid like food stamps, welfare, rent control. They're not viable. I'll admit, I'm very tired, and maybe not comprehending, but that seems like what you're saying. Sorry if it's not.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

So edjr bred with some skank and she doesn't pay taxes. Yeah, it's all gonna work out fine.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Ok. So anything getting subsidized, or help from the "government teat", isn't viable, and should be shut down. That's a lot of government programs(ACA,Medicare, Medicaid), government institutions (post office, DMV, schools, colleges), businesses, and people themselves. People who receive government aid like food stamps, welfare, rent control. They're not viable. I'll admit, I'm very tired, and maybe not comprehending, but that seems like what you're saying. Sorry if it's not.

 

When I say "viable" I mean economically viable, or able to survive on its own.

 

We as a society, through our government, have chosen to subsidize certain things for whatever societal good (or government graft).

 

Education is a primary example. Health care is another. Corn is an example of the graft part, as is green energy in many cases.

 

Everyone wants to talk about mom and pop places, and I get that. I'd be fine with excepting businesses under a certain threshold of employees or gross sales or whatever metric you choose.

 

But why the fock is the American taxpayer subsidizing the labor force of Chili's or the Cheesecake Factory? Why the fock is the customer forced to pay their employees directly from their pocket rather than via prices, like any other damn business does?

 

There are so many million little ways corporate welfare is built into our economy. I think it should stop, at least over a certain threshold. If we choose to subsidize small business because we feel it is a societal good, I am ok with that. But the big boys? fock them. Pay your own damn employees.

[crackattack 513]

 

When I say "viable" I mean economically viable, or able to survive on its own.

 

We as a society, through our government, have chosen to subsidize certain things for whatever societal good (or government graft).

 

Education is a primary example. Health care is another. Corn is an example of the graft part, as is green energy in many cases.

 

Everyone wants to talk about mom and pop places, and I get that. I'd be fine with excepting businesses under a certain threshold of employees or gross sales or whatever metric you choose.

 

But why the fock is the American taxpayer subsidizing the labor force of Chili's or the Cheesecake Factory? Why the fock is the customer forced to pay their employees directly from their pocket rather than via prices, like any other damn business does?

 

There are so many million little ways corporate welfare is built into our economy. I think it should stop, at least over a certain threshold. If we choose to subsidize small business because we feel it is a societal good, I am ok with that. But the big boys? fock them. Pay your own damn employees.

I agree on the big boy corporations getting government welfare or subsidies. Fock that. But, I do believe small businesses help subsidize individual incomes, or help teens, college kids and so on. I tip very decent, and have no problem helping small business owners subsidize their employees income. I believe that's for the greater good.

 

I'd rather see mom and pop employing 10-20 People at 8$ an hour, and having people tip them, then having those 10-20 people unemployed. I think we're almost on the same page, so .

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

If we don't subsidize Chilis, Newbie will lose firends.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I agree on the big boy corporations getting government welfare or subsidies. Fock that. But, I do believe small businesses help subsidize individual incomes, or help teens, college kids and so on. I tip very decent, and have no problem helping small business owners subsidize their employees income. I believe that's for the greater good.

 

I'd rather see mom and pop employing 10-20 People at 8$ an hour, and having people tip them, then having those 10-20 people unemployed. I think we're almost on the same page, so .

 

Yeah, I'm reasonably sure we could draft a bill with a reasonable minimum wage, excepting all businesses that meet certain criterion, and it would be better than what our clown show government (I don't just mean the current one) would come up with.

[Strike 3,979]

 

But why the fock is the American taxpayer subsidizing the labor force of Chili's or the Cheesecake Factory? Why the fock is the customer forced to pay their employees directly from their pocket rather than via prices, like any other damn business does?

 

 

You're not. Last time I checked tipping was optional except in certain circumstances such as large parties at some restaurants. You're allowed to be as cheap as you want to be.

[vuduchile 1,941]

I agree on the big boy corporations getting government welfare or subsidies. Fock that. But, I do believe small businesses help subsidize individual incomes, or help teens, college kids and so on. I tip very decent, and have no problem helping small business owners subsidize their employees income. I believe that's for the greater good.

 

I'd rather see mom and pop employing 10-20 People at 8$ an hour, and having people tip them, then having those 10-20 people unemployed. I think we're almost on the same page, so .

It's not helping the greater good when all that tip income goes unreported and the related income taxes remain uncollected.

 

Why is this still such a hard concept for people to grasp?

[parrot 789]

 

You're not. Last time I checked tipping was optional except in certain circumstances such as large parties at some restaurants. You're allowed to be as cheap as you want to be.

 

Yeah. I really don't get the beef with tipping. It's merit based and mostly optional. It's one of the few times you have the ability to make your payment commensurate with the level of service you received. You don't want to "subsidize" the business, don't.

[crackattack 513]

It's not helping the greater good when all that tip income goes unreported and the related income taxes remain uncollected.

 

Why is this still such a hard concept for people to grasp?

It helps the families or individuals not reporting it. It helps them pay bills, put food on the table, gas in their car, day care and so on. So eventually that money is being taxed, and put back into the economy.

[jerryskids 5,206]

 

When I say "viable" I mean economically viable, or able to survive on its own.

 

We as a society, through our government, have chosen to subsidize certain things for whatever societal good (or government graft).

 

Education is a primary example. Health care is another. Corn is an example of the graft part, as is green energy in many cases.

 

Everyone wants to talk about mom and pop places, and I get that. I'd be fine with excepting businesses under a certain threshold of employees or gross sales or whatever metric you choose.

 

But why the fock is the American taxpayer subsidizing the labor force of Chili's or the Cheesecake Factory? Why the fock is the customer forced to pay their employees directly from their pocket rather than via prices, like any other damn business does?

 

There are so many million little ways corporate welfare is built into our economy. I think it should stop, at least over a certain threshold. If we choose to subsidize small business because we feel it is a societal good, I am ok with that. But the big boys? fock them. Pay your own damn employees.

 

I'm with you on the govt. subsidies but you are losing me on the tips. The tips are part of the pay equation, how is that subsidizing a business?

[edjr 5,567]

 

I'm with you on the govt. subsidies but you are losing me on the tips. The tips are part of the pay equation, how is that subsidizing a business?

 

If I have to pay 10 workers 2.55 an hour and the customers tip them.

 

Isn't that better than paying those 10 workers 15 an hour?

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

I'm with you on the govt. subsidies but you are losing me on the tips. The tips are part of the pay equation, how is that subsidizing a business?

It allows consumers to pay whatever they decide for services rendered.

 

The biz charges a set price for the food/drink that allows them to cover their costs and make a profit while paying servers a paltry wage.

 

Those servers are now at the mercy of the general public to pay them a living wage.

 

Those same servers don't acurately report tips as income or pay the appropriate taxes.

 

A more straightforward and honest biz model would be to incorporate a realistic wage into the food/drink costs and do away with tipping altogether.

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

If I have to pay 10 workers 2.55 an hour and the customers tip them.

 

Isn't that better than paying those 10 workers 15 an hour?

Better for the owner and the server, but worse for Uncle Sam.

[edjr 5,567]

It allows consumers to pay whatever they decide for services rendered.

 

The biz charges a set price for the food/drink that allows them to cover their costs and make a profit while paying servers a paltry wage.

 

Those servers are now at the mercy of the general public to pay them a living wage.

 

Those same servers don't acurately report tips as income or pay the appropriate taxes.

 

A more straightforward and honest biz model would be to incorporate a realistic wage into the food/drink costs and do away with tipping altogether.

 

most people pay tips with credit cards in 2017.

 

HTH

 

hence it has to be reported.

 

HTH

 

 

Allocated Tips

 

HTH

[jerryskids 5,206]

It allows consumers to pay whatever they decide for services rendered.

 

The biz charges a set price for the food/drink that allows them to cover their costs and make a profit while paying servers a paltry wage.

 

Those servers are now at the mercy of the general public to pay them a living wage.

 

Those same servers don't acurately report tips as income or pay the appropriate taxes.

 

A more straightforward and honest biz model would be to incorporate a realistic wage into the food/drink costs and do away with tipping altogether.

 

I understand that argument but I don't see how that is subsidizing the business; it is just changing the "color of money." Sure the tip model is more variable including the option of making higher than average based on performance, but that is a different conversation I think.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

It's nice that edjrs skank in exile doesn't pay taxes on her earnings. The rest of us will pick up the tab. You're welcome.

[vuduchile 1,941]

It helps the families or individuals not reporting it. It helps them pay bills, put food on the table, gas in their car, day care and so on. So eventually that money is being taxed, and put back into the economy.

This reminds me of the circular reference warning whenever I input an incorrect formula into excel.

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

most people pay tips with credit cards in 2017.

 

HTH

 

hence it has to be reported.

 

HTH

 

 

Allocated Tips

 

HTH

Most does not = all

 

In this very thread, you pitched a hissy fit about wanting to pay your tip in cash.

 

HTH

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

I understand that argument but I don't see how that is subsidizing the business; it is just changing the "color of money." Sure the tip model is more variable including the option of making higher than average based on performance, but that is a different conversation I think.

It's subsidizing it because the biz owner is responsible for pay only a small % of their employee's wage.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

 

most people pay tips with credit cards in 2017.

 

HTH

 

hence it has to be reported.

 

HTH

 

 

Allocated Tips

 

HTH

Bullspit. I'm out with friends all the time. Always cash. Don't worry, the rest of us will pay taxes and keep the heat on at your kids school. You need the extra dough for your drugs.

[Strike 3,979]

It's subsidizing it because the biz owner is responsible for pay only a small % of their employee's wage.

 

As previously noted, tipping is optional. Therefore, the employer is paying 100% of their wage. The rest is an optional bonus given by customers. We can call it a bunch of things but subsidy is probably about the least accurate.

[Bier Meister 1,514]

It helps the families or individuals not reporting it. It helps them pay bills, put food on the table, gas in their car, day care and so on. So eventually that money is being taxed, and put back into the economy.

 

 

i tend to be pretty lib on social issues, but do not believe in this line of thought. the above statement could be said of wages by means of illegal methods as well. I am not in favor of grotesquely avoiding social responsibility (in this case, in the form of taxation). i say the same thing regarding the relief corporations receive via mega accountants/lawyers (which i believe is worse than what is not collected from tipping). nonetheless, while i do not have major issue with attempting to legally minimize out of pocket costs, we all need to pay our fair share into the system. we need to figure out "fair."

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

 

As previously noted, tipping is optional. Therefore, the employer is paying 100% of their wage. The rest is an optional bonus given by customers. We can call it a bunch of things but subsidy is probably about the least accurate.

The minimum wage for restaurants is lower, by a lot. So yes, the consumer is subsidizing the employers business.

[jerryskids 5,206]

 

 

i tend to be pretty lib on social issues, but do not believe in this line of thought. the above statement could be said of wages by means of illegal methods as well. I am not in favor of grotesquely avoiding social responsibility (in this case, in the form of taxation). i say the same thing regarding the relief corporations receive via mega accountants/lawyers (which i believe is worse than what is not collected from tipping). nonetheless, while i do not have major issue with attempting to legally minimize out of pocket costs, we all need to pay our fair share into the system. we need to figure out "fair."

 

I dunno, if the restaurant pays less salary, they make more money and pay more taxes. Isnt it sort of a wash?

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

As previously noted, tipping is optional. Therefore, the employer is paying 100% of their wage. The rest is an optional bonus given by customers. We can call it a bunch of things but subsidy is probably about the least accurate.

Paying an employee less than minimum wage and having them make up he rest in tips really isn't paying 100%

[Bier Meister 1,514]

 

I dunno, if the restaurant pays less salary, they make more money and pay more taxes. Isnt it sort of a wash?

 

i would like to see the numbers. it would depend on the size and type of restaurant. i would also like to see the books for european restaurants (higher wage for servers) and how restaurants and employees are impacted. also need to look at their taxation and benefits from the state.