Cryptocurrency

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

For those attacking bitcoin in here, you are seriously underestimating what is happening. Some anon builds money purely out of code, and we are sitting here arguing over the viability of bitcoin becoming the reserve asset of the entire world 13 years later. This is why I am so interested in it. Researching bitcoin has taught me about the history of money, the function of money, environmental impacts, encryption, energy etc. Bitcoin has changed my life for the better.

[vomit 502]

1 hour ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Joe the super poster goes to car forum. Talks out of his ass after going 0 research. Gets owned. And then is too ignorant to even realize he got owned. That's what is happening here

I don't know who you are referring to, but people that are posting in this thread have obviously done research.  You're talking about getting owned in a thread where you claim to be the "bitcoin expert"

Nobody hit the nail on the head, you are emotionally invested in bitcoin.  You take any questioning of bitcoin as a personal attack, and when you refute these attacks you are "owning" people.  This is classic message board tomfoolery, and dangerous when applied to real life, including your financial stability.

You position on bitcoin has changed a lot over the years, which is fine btw, it's good, it shows you're learning, we should all want to learn.  What is dangerous is that you proclaim at any given point in time that you are "right" and you are "an expert".  The greatest thing a person can ever learn is that they do not have all the answers.  Unfortunately you are not there yet.

My position on bitcoin hasn't changed, and it's been strengthened over the course of time.  I've always viewed it as a speculative asset, with little to no intrinsic value outside of what someone is willing to pay for it, and we've seen that play out.

Where I've been wrong is I never thought it would get anywhere near the valuation it has now.  It caused me to change my opinion on any future valuations.  I'm smart enough to see that the future of this has a wide range of outcomes.  I personally will not invest, I don't blame you if you do, but I caution anyone to put any money into this sh!t that they are not willing to lose, and I roll my eyes at anyone that claims to be an expert and to know exactly what is going to happen in this industry.  If I had to guess, you don't hold any formal education, you work in manual labor or retail job, and everything you have learned has been on youtube, where you are presented only one side of the argument.  I would just advise you to broaden your education as it will only improve your situation.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

1 hour ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

For those attacking bitcoin in here, you are seriously underestimating what is happening. Some anon builds money purely out of code, and we are sitting here arguing over the viability of bitcoin becoming the reserve asset of the entire world 13 years later. This is why I am so interested in it. Researching bitcoin has taught me about the history of money, the function of money, environmental impacts, encryption, energy etc. Bitcoin has changed my life for the better.

This type of post is a perfect example of being too emotionally attached to an investment. 

when you address people as “those attacking Bitcoin in here” because the very idea that some people might not agree with you 100% means they are attackers  

[vomit 502]

5 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Also LOL at podcasts as an unbiased educational tool. I swear they are never one sided or focused on only certain aspects of an issue. 

When I wanted to learn more about this stuff I turned to podcasts and found almost all of the crypto podcasts were one sided, either "Bitcoin is going to $6M next week" or "It's gonna crash in a matter of hours and be worthless"  It's increasingly hard for people to get a full spectrum of opinions, especially when they are easily duped.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

1 hour ago, vomit said:

I don't know who you are referring to, but people that are posting in this thread have obviously done research.  You're talking about getting owned in a thread where you claim to be the "bitcoin expert"

Nobody hit the nail on the head, you are emotionally invested in bitcoin.  You take any questioning of bitcoin as a personal attack, and when you refute these attacks you are "owning" people.  This is classic message board tomfoolery, and dangerous when applied to real life, including your financial stability.

You position on bitcoin has changed a lot over the years, which is fine btw, it's good, it shows you're learning, we should all want to learn.  What is dangerous is that you proclaim at any given point in time that you are "right" and you are "an expert".  The greatest thing a person can ever learn is that they do not have all the answers.  Unfortunately you are not there yet.

My position on bitcoin hasn't changed, and it's been strengthened over the course of time.  I've always viewed it as a speculative asset, with little to no intrinsic value outside of what someone is willing to pay for it, and we've seen that play out.

Where I've been wrong is I never thought it would get anywhere near the valuation it has now.  It caused me to change my opinion on any future valuations.  I'm smart enough to see that the future of this has a wide range of outcomes.  I personally will not invest, I don't blame you if you do, but I caution anyone to put any money into this sh!t that they are not willing to lose, and I roll my eyes at anyone that claims to be an expert and to know exactly what is going to happen in this industry.  If I had to guess, you don't hold any formal education, you work in manual labor or retail job, and everything you have learned has been on youtube, where you are presented only one side of the argument.  I would just advise you to broaden your education as it will only improve your situation.

I never said I was an expert. Only that I have done the most research on here.

I have history on my side. All of the people who said bitcoin was worthless have been wrong. The people who were right about bitcoin are having their different thesis play out perfectly. They said a nation would adopt bitcoin in their reserves. Anyone who wasn't a bitcoiner thought it was bull shlt. Look who was right

Like I said it doesn't matter. I buy and hold bitcoin in large part because the value will go up. This isn't a stock. You are applying the same logic to bitcoin. It's not the same. You can't understand that there is a difference. The entire point of bitcoin is to get out of the old financial system

Ultimately it is about value. Your arguments on here will look foolish as do all arguments that try to tell people it's a super scary speculative asset. The only thing speculative is the short term price. There's nothing speculative about the long term value because the laws that govern supply and demand do not change just because bitcoin hasn't become a fully mature asset yet.

The US gov is pro bitcoin and you still think it's speculative. The people who will benefit the most are the ones who realize bitcoin has already won and it has gotten past the speculation phase. You think your so edgy by calling bitcoin speculative when that ship has sailed. You are late to the party with that mind set.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

You complaining about the way I talk about bitcoin is a monumental waste of time. I'm wasting my time even responding. You should spend more time researching this stuff. And quit wasting everyone else's time by whining about it.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

One country. One stable coin. One corporation. What happens when we have multiple in each category? There's only one answer.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

You obviously have no idea who Mallers is. He isn't some random dude who is a bitcoin fan

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

If Apple adopts bitcoin, will that change the way you think of it?

And acting like I can't think rationally because I have bitcoin is a seriously brainless way to think of it. It's the same as saying any journalist who owns bitcoin shouldn't talk about it since it makes them biased. What do you think not owning bitcoin does to someone's bias?

 

[Cdub100 3,381]

You alright bro? 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

4 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

You alright bro? 

I'm great. How bout you?

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

42 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

If Apple adopts bitcoin, will that change the way you think of it?

And acting like I can't think rationally because I have bitcoin is a seriously brainless way to think of it. It's the same as saying any journalist who owns bitcoin shouldn't talk about it since it makes them biased. What do you think not owning bitcoin does to someone's bias?

 

I’m not sure anyone said you can’t think rationally or are biased BECAUSE you own Bitcoin. I couldn’t care less what you own or don’t own…. But the emotion is super present in your posts. You’re getting really bent out of shape and defensive if anyone slightly disagrees with you and it’s a clear sign that you’re an overly emotional investor when it comes to Bitcoin. 

just look, you said you were wasting your time responding but you keep posting / responding. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

5 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Like I said it doesn't matter. I buy and hold bitcoin in large part because the value will go up. This isn't a stock. You are applying the same logic to bitcoin. It's not the same. You can't understand that there is a difference. The entire point of bitcoin is to get out of the old financial system

So you buy and hold in large part because the value will go up. You do realize this is exactly what stock investors do, correct?

If the entire point is to get out of the old financial system (and I’m not refuting that so please don’t get your panties in a bunch), then why do you care about the value going up? Your whole stance should be that you buy and hold for when Bitcoin replaces the current financial system and the transfer of wealth occurs. 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

19 hours ago, nobody said:

This is why I can't trust your opinion.

1. I recall you saying you did think Bitcoin was going to replace fiat in this very thread.  Now you seem to be ignoring that you advocated for that and factored it into your valuation.
2. I don't think Bitcoin is cheap to convert in and out of fiat.  Are you really saving anything over freaking paypal when transferring across borders?  
3. "What else has a supply of just 21 million units"  That statement sets off alarm bells in my head.  That's the type of thing people who think stock splits make stocks cheaper say. 
4. The 13 year old network is not "far superior" to the existing system.  The 13 year old network can't handle volume and can't scale.  That's why they are compromising on all the good security features to make it scalable.

When I read this type of stuff I think a few things

1. You want Bitcoin to proliferate.  Yes, you've been right so far, but you've been right for the wrong reasons.  That's a dangerous spot to be in.
2. Your "I'll never sell" decree just tells me that you have no target valuation.  That's also dangerous.  What happens if a new digital currency comes along and makes Bitcoin the Friendster to it's Facebook.  So you'll just ride it all the way down and not swap out to the new hotness?  That's not investing.  That's just white-knuckling it.
3. You're a novice investor.  Investing should be emotionless.  Cold hard facts should drive every decision.  You're emotionally invested in Bitcoin as well as financially.  

One thing I do every morning is I look at the stock market.  The first thing I see is bitcoin price, and when Bitcoin is up, I know the NASDAQ is up.  When bitcoin is down I know the NASDAQ is down.  It's trading like a leveraged derivative of the NASDAQ.  That means it's a pure spec play right now.  If it was being treated like a gold proxy, it should trade inverse to the NASDAQ and should've went crazy during this inflation scare.  Why hasn't it?

At least you're starting to get it.  If there is money to be made here, it's this "Dollars will be transacted over its network"  That's what the hedge funds that control the price are counting on, so expect anything to get in the way of that to hurt your investment.

 

9 hours ago, vomit said:

This might be the dumbest post in this entire thread

 

19 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

one of the most intelligent posts i've read in this thread. 

Nobody's post was filled with errors. I corrected them and answered them. Then after my reasonable response it was called dumb. I am not offended that you guys don't see bitcoin the way i do. I take offense at the pure stupidity in here. Nobody has no clue what he is talking about and yet you called his post good.

[nobody 2,043]

3 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Nobody's post was filled with errors. I corrected them and answered them. Then after my reasonable response it was called dumb. I am not offended that you guys don't see bitcoin the way i do. I take offense at the pure stupidity in here. Nobody has no clue what he is talking about and yet you called his post good.

You literally spent months telling us that we're stupid for not thinking Bitcoin is viable as a currency and you did all the research and we don't know anything.

Now you're saying bitcoin's value is as a store of value and you did all the research and we don't know anything. 

I've been investing for 20 years.  Do you think I care how I make money?  If I thought it made sense, I would buy it.  And I damn sure spent the time understanding it.

The problem is I also understand the economy.  

 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

So you buy and hold in large part because the value will go up. You do realize this is exactly what stock investors do, correct?

If the entire point is to get out of the old financial system (and I’m not refuting that so please don’t get your panties in a bunch), then why do you care about the value going up? Your whole stance should be that you buy and hold for when Bitcoin replaces the current financial system and the transfer of wealth occurs. 

If I bought gold bars, would you call it a stock? No. That would be dumb. Yet here you are equating bitcoin to a stock.

Anyone who buys any asset wants it to go up in value. I thought this was the most basic principal of investing. I don't know why I have to justify wanting bitcoin to become more valuable. 

If I was financially able to buy bitcoin and never need any of the gains to supplement my income to buy things like a house or car, I would plan on never selling. I would keep stacking. But I am not in that position. So I will sell some at a certain point to help me reach some goals that will require a down payment. I will not sell most of it however

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

14 minutes ago, nobody said:

You literally spent months telling us that we're stupid for not thinking Bitcoin is viable as a currency and you did all the research and we don't know anything.

Now you're saying bitcoin's value is as a store of value and you did all the research and we don't know anything. 

I've been investing for 20 years.  Do you think I care how I make money?  If I thought it made sense, I would buy it.  And I damn sure spent the time understanding it.

The problem is I also understand the economy.  

 

Ok. Don't buy it then.

[vomit 502]

1 minute ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

If I bought gold bars, would you call it a stock? No. That would be dumb. Yet here you are equating bitcoin to a stock.

Anyone who buys any asset wants it to go up in value. I thought this was the most basic principal of investing. I don't know why I have to justify wanting bitcoin to become more valuable. 

If I was financially able to buy bitcoin and never need any of the gains to supplement my income to buy things like a house or car, I would plan on never selling. I would keep stacking. But I am not in that position. So I will sell some at a certain point to help me reach some goals that will require a down payment. I will not sell most of it however

What do you plan on doing with all your wealth after you die?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

17 minutes ago, nobody said:

You literally spent months telling us that we're stupid for not thinking Bitcoin is viable as a currency and you did all the research and we don't know anything.

Now you're saying bitcoin's value is as a store of value and you did all the research and we don't know anything. 

I've been investing for 20 years.  Do you think I care how I make money?  If I thought it made sense, I would buy it.  And I damn sure spent the time understanding it.

The problem is I also understand the economy.  

 

I'm not sitting here giving you pointers on investing. I only focus on this one asset. People who are far better investors who have been investing far longer have missed this opportunity also. So your credentials mean nothing as far as understanding bitcoin. Your past research seems to be blinding you if anything

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

7 minutes ago, vomit said:

What do you plan on doing with all your wealth after you die?

Pass it along to my kids. It's always smart to have an appreciating asset since no one knows how long they have.

[nobody 2,043]

10 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

If I bought gold bars, would you call it a stock? No. That would be dumb. Yet here you are equating bitcoin to a stock.

Anyone who buys any asset wants it to go up in value. I thought this was the most basic principal of investing. I don't know why I have to justify wanting bitcoin to become more valuable. 

If I was financially able to buy bitcoin and never need any of the gains to supplement my income to buy things like a house or car, I would plan on never selling. I would keep stacking. But I am not in that position. So I will sell some at a certain point to help me reach some goals that will require a down payment. I will not sell most of it however

Everyone wants their investments to go up.  Wanting it isn't a good reason though.  You have to have a thesis...  This is why this investment is going to go up in value.

That thesis can be that you think it's going to replace Fiat currency (you'd be wrong)

That thesis can be that you think it's going to be a better store of value than gold (possible and even probable)

That thesis could be that Bitcoin will become the tender that powers a worldwide transaction network. (Maybe)

The problem with the store of value thesis is that it doesn't act like a store of value.  It should have gone up in recent months but it traded like a stock which makes me think people are considering the third thesis.  The problem with that one is the plan is so flimsy.  That's why this is highly speculative.

Most people seem to fall somewhere between thesis 2 and 3.  In reality, what's driving price action right now is hedge funds are leveraged and when the stock market goes down, they need to cover those leveraged positions and they're probably selling bitcoin to do it, and it only takes about 10 billion to materially move this market one way or the other.

 

 

 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

16 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

If I bought gold bars, would you call it a stock? No. That would be dumb. Yet here you are equating bitcoin to a stock.

Anyone who buys any asset wants it to go up in value. I thought this was the most basic principal of investing. I don't know why I have to justify wanting bitcoin to become more valuable. 

If I was financially able to buy bitcoin and never need any of the gains to supplement my income to buy things like a house or car, I would plan on never selling. I would keep stacking. But I am not in that position. So I will sell some at a certain point to help me reach some goals that will require a down payment. I will not sell most of it however

where did I call or equate Bitcoin to a stock? That’s where you’re missing my point. I’m comparing buying Bitcoin and wanting its USD value to go up, to buying stock and wanting the same thing. It’s all investing. 
so YES. If you bought gold bars I would call it an investment, just like buying shares of Apple stock. 
the dude who buys sports cards to resell is buying them as an investment. 
 

what about this don’t you understand?

I have repeatedly agreed that Bitcoin is a good investment. You seem hell bent on arguing just because we may have different reasons for why we think it’s a good investment. 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Shlts about to get heated

 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Ok enough parsing every word I type. Apple is about to adopt bitcoin it sounds like. Jack Mallers seems to be directly responsible. I'm telling you that you are underestimating bitcoin. If you don't have a small allocation right now you are going to really kick yourself.

Every single year someone says I'm too late! I should have gotten in when it was cheaper! Great news, it's still not too late. The adoption of bitcoin and the hoarding of bitcoin by people with tons of money, divided by 21 million, is going to push the price to levels that make 47k look like a bargain.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

3 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Ok enough parsing every word I type. Apple is about to adopt bitcoin it sounds like. Jack Mallers seems to be directly responsible. I'm telling you that you are underestimating bitcoin. If you don't have a small allocation right now you are going to really kick yourself.

Every single year someone says I'm too late! I should have gotten in when it was cheaper! Great news, it's still not too late. The adoption of bitcoin and the hoarding of bitcoin by people with tons of money, divided by 21 million, is going to push the price to levels that make 47k look like a bargain.

Tell me how to buy 1k worth today. If it’s easy I’ll do it. 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Tell me how to buy 1k worth today. If it’s easy I’ll do it. 

The easiest way is to go through kyc exchanges where they verify your identity. You need to link your bank account to each. Or at least this is how I do it.

Strike app in the app store. Developed by Jack Mallees

Gemini.com owned by the winklevoss twins.

For buying amounts $1k or under I like Strike app.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

30 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

The easiest way is to go through kyc exchanges where they verify your identity. You need to link your bank account to each. Or at least this is how I do it.

Strike app in the app store. Developed by Jack Mallees

Gemini.com owned by the winklevoss twins.

For buying amounts $1k or under I like Strike app.

Too complicated.  But thanks. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

I see a Bitcoin option on an ATM I use. What’s that all about? Is that for buying or using? Or both? 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I see a Bitcoin option on an ATM I use. What’s that all about? Is that for buying or using? Or both? 

It's for buying bitcoin. I have never used one before

[vomit 502]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Tell me how to buy 1k worth today. If it’s easy I’ll do it. 

venmo

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Easy ways to buy. PayPal also has the option

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bankrate.com/investing/how-to-buy-

[Cdub100 3,381]

6 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

I'm great. How bout you?

Pretty well. I'm hoping for a few more months to a year or two of sideways trading.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

6 hours ago, Cdub100 said:

Pretty well. I'm hoping for a few more months to a year or two of sideways trading.

That would be nice, but I am reading a lot of positive things converging right now. One is the record amount bitcoin that hasn't moved in a year. Bitcoin has been coming off of exchanges. The illiquid supply is rapidly increasing. Then there is Jack Mallers hinting he has on boarded Apple. Which most likely means Apple Pay will run on the bitcoin rails.

Do Kwon, founder of Luna, declared that he wants to be the largest holder of bitcoin after Satoshi. He has been buying $100+ million worth of bitcoin every day for the last 8 days or so. His plan is something like $10 billion worth.

There are whispers of more countries doing what El Salvador did

Yellen came out and basically supported bitcoin and crypto innovation.

My guess is we see the run up this year that we were expecting last year. There is always the chance of a deep retracement afterward.

Or the all markets take a big hit becaude the fed keeps raising rates.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Jack Mallers announced at the Miami Bitcoin conference that Strike has partnered with Shopify, Blackhawk, and NCR. Bitcoin will now be accepted as payment in most major retailers across the country. This includes retailers like Walmart, McDonalds, Chipotle, CVS etc.

I'm going to remind you guys that buying bitcoin now is like buying a piece of the internet in its early stages. Bitcoin is the internet of money and all money will run on the bitcoin network eventually.

I thought he was going to announce a partnership with Apple. This is so much bigger. This is MASSIVE

Also, you will be able to upload your bitcoin in retailers without kyc as long as you use the proper wallet. Wow.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/ninabambysheva/2022/04/07/strike-announces-shopify-integration-partnerships-with-ncr-and-blackhawk-bringing-bitcoin-lighting-payments-to-major-merchants/amp/

[vomit 502]

Whose going to buy a big Mac with Bitcoin?  You yourself you would never sell.  Why should anyone ever sell?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

1 hour ago, vomit said:

Whose going to buy a big Mac with Bitcoin?  You yourself you would never sell.  Why should anyone ever sell?

There are people who do spend bitcoin. I don't but there are people who do

If you use the proper waller that didn't track who you are, kyc is not involved in the transaction. Which is a big benefit

Dollars can be transacted over the network. How that works is I send dollars. It's converted to bitcoin. Then it's converted back to dollars. I can spend the dollars I would have spent without tapping into my savings

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

 Bitcoin needs something to spark another FOMO rally. FOMO has been by far the biggest boost to its value the last two times it really took off back in …. late 2017? And early 2021

[Gepetto 988]

It's only value is based on convincing others it's going to go up in value.  It's value is based on people's perception.  

[Cdub100 3,381]

23 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

It's only value is based on convincing others it's going to go up in value.  It's value is based on people's perception.  

This is such a tired argument. That's literally how everything works.