They kneeled for the National Anthem and stood for the Brit anthem.

[jerryskids 6,712]

 

Red herring to point out that someone complains about black people 'disrespecting the flag' but doesn't complain about white people also disrespecting it? Seems relevant to me when the issue is still deeply about race.

 

A friend sent me an email years ago asking if I'd sign his petition to force candidate Obama to release his birth certificate. I said sure, as soon as you send me a petition forcing McCain to do the same thing (McCain hadn't released his at the time). He never sent me that petition. Huh. I'll bet you don't see McCain's birth certificate as relevant to Obama's either.

 

It's a red herring because the people (who happen to be white in your pictures, but I don't attribute it to a white thing, Mr. racist poster) are wearing such stuff out of pride in their country. The fact that it violates flag protocol is immaterial to their intentions.

 

I'm guessing you already knew this, but I may be wrong.

[phillygrrl08 139]

Take a step back, folks, and think about it.

 

Trump doesn't give a hoot about the flag, kneeling, or anything other than saving his own skin.

 

When he spouts inflammatory bs at a rally or tweets something off the wall, ask yourselves, what is he trying to distract us from?

 

Here's your answer:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-used-private-email-account-for-some-white-house-business/2017/09/24/917d9b6e-a161-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14_story.html?utm_term=.05c79db6cea9&wpisrc=nl_rainbow&wpmm=1

 

And while we're all talking about this, Puerto Rico, a US territory, begs for help as the island is without power, fuel, and water and is in dire straits.

[brotherbock 349]

Where did I call you anything, much less a Democrat? I identified George Wallace as a Democrat - because he was.

 

I don't need strawmen.

 

Why did you bring up party affiliation at all? My post said nothing about democrats or republicans. So why did you decide that should be the issue?

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

Take a step back, folks, and think about it.

 

Trump doesn't give a hoot about the flag, kneeling, or anything other than saving his own skin.

 

When he spouts inflammatory bs at a rally or tweets something off the wall, ask yourselves, what is he trying to distract us from?

 

Here's your answer:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-used-private-email-account-for-some-white-house-business/2017/09/24/917d9b6e-a161-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14_story.html?utm_term=.05c79db6cea9&wpisrc=nl_rainbow&wpmm=1

 

And while we're all talking about this, Puerto Rico, a US territory, begs for help as the island is without power, fuel, and water and is in dire straits.

I don't think Trump can help himself when he's speaking at rallies. He is hated by 70% of the country. That's hard to take for an egomaniac like him. He is already the worst President in the country's history and has failed every step of the way. When he gets in front of a crowd of supporters, his soul needs the cheers. And he plays them like a fiddle. He knows exactly what to say to elicit cheers and adoration. What risk was there in talking about the rich (and mostly black) athletes kneeling? What are the chances that 99.999999% of his crowd also is disgusted by those very black athletes? So for a few minutes, he gets to feel like a king.

And I kind of doubt Trump cares much about Puerto Ricans. They are an awful lot like Mexicans. At least, to his base.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,241]

So you believe that the players are protesting the flag?

Nope, they are disrespecting what it stands for. You know, one nation,

Under god, with liberty and justice for all. Did you forget that's what it represents?

[IMMensaMind 462]

Nailed it.

Perhaps you should chest bump him.

This wraps it up perfectly. Trump was acting like half of the league was protesting, when it was 6 guys. The guy is a terrible leader. The sooner he is out the better the world will be.

That is, of course, incorrect.

 

Unless you want to admit that the participants in this league are so petty that they put "getting even" with Trump ahead of their alliance with the flag, our country, and its citizens.

 

Here are the tolerant ones in this equation:

 

1. The players who understand that team unity is really important, and are willing to tolerate bubbleheaded misdirected protests and protestors instead of potentially decimating team chemistry.

 

2. Fans who continue to be fans regardless the stupidity of the athletes.

 

3. Team owners who do not agree with these stupid protests - but are allowing these misguided souls to protest their hearts out so their brains don't feel so lonely - and don't sanction these players in any way.

 

Here are the intolerant ones:

 

1. The players engaging in the protest, who don't mind potentially nuking team chemistry by acting like ignorant asshats.

 

2. Any media member or bubblehead who attempts to claim that disagreeing with the protest must mean that they're racist.

[brotherbock 349]

 

It's a red herring because the people (who happen to be white in your pictures, but I don't attribute it to a white thing, Mr. racist poster) are wearing such stuff out of pride in their country. The fact that it violates flag protocol is immaterial to their intentions.

 

I'm guessing you already knew this, but I may be wrong.

 

Oh.

 

So the intentions of the NASCAR fans--the intention to not disrespect the flag itself or the military--those intentions matter.

 

But the stated intentions of the kneeling players--to not disrespect the flag or the military--those don't matter? Don't tell me you're saying that.

 

Look, I went outside and lived my life after page 3 of this, so I haven't followed everything that's been said until page 8 here. But please don't tell me that you're going to claim that the players--who are stating that they are not disrespecting the flag or the military--actually are being disrespectful...but that the NASCAR fans are not being disrespectful. Cause that would really seem like a double standard, right?

 

Look, before you respond: I am not some horrible person trying to destroy America. I am not a communist. I am not a nazi. You are not a nazi. You're not bent on destroying the way of life I love. If I knew you, I'd buy you a beer to talk about this. We're just people who are disagreeing here. But here's one point: the players are claiming that they are not intending to disrespect the flag or the military, or the foundational principles of our government and nation. At least, many of them are stating that. Doesn't that indicate that being offended, feeling disrespected, is a choice that some people are making?

 

And if so, why aren't they feeling offended by the wearing of the flag as underwear, or a dew rag? Why are those treatments of the flag not causing a stir? That's the question I'm trying to get people to look at. Peace.

[IMMensaMind 462]

You are one of those guys who love making long posts and listening to himself talk. This post is a great example. Just blubberish. You even have to ramble on and on when you claim to agree. Are you on a 100,000 words-per-day diet? You have to post a certain amount a day to get a sticker?

 

Oh look. Reduced to more petty ad hom crap. Here's the truth, Chrysler: you ran out of substantive comments two posts ago, and simply want to get the last stupid swipe in.

 

You've run out of material.

[IMMensaMind 462]

Oh.

 

So the intentions of the NASCAR fans--the intention to not disrespect the flag itself or the military--those intentions matter.

 

But the stated intentions of the kneeling players--to not disrespect the flag or the military--those don't matter? Don't tell me you're saying that.

 

Look, I went outside and lived my life after page 3 of this, so I haven't followed everything that's been said until page 8 here. But please don't tell me that you're going to claim that the players--who are stating that they are not disrespecting the flag or the military--actually are being disrespectful...but that the NASCAR fans are not being disrespectful. Cause that would really seem like a double standard, right?

 

Look, before you respond: I am not some horrible person trying to destroy America. I am not a communist. I am not a nazi. You are not a nazi. You're not bent on destroying the way of life I love. If I knew you, I'd buy you a beer to talk about this. We're just people who are disagreeing here. But here's one point: the players are claiming that they are not intending to disrespect the flag or the military, or the foundational principles of our government and nation. At least, many of them are stating that. Doesn't that indicate that being offended, feeling disrespected, is a choice that some people are making?

 

And if so, why aren't they feeling offended by the wearing of the flag as underwear, or a dew rag? Why are those treatments of the flag not causing a stir? That's the question I'm trying to get people to look at. Peace.

Intent is important. You're not describing flags. You're describing material with the flag imprint used for a purpose: head covering - and not just head covering, but in the form of a tribute.

 

If you disagree, please produce for me someone who wears a US flag imprinted dew rag and get them to admit that they do it to insult the flag.

 

Reason and wisdom. What you're doing is attempting to excuse the actions of one party with intent with another party with no such intent and equivocating to do so.

 

They're not equatable.

[IMMensaMind 462]

Nope, they are disrespecting what it stands for. You know, one nation,

Under god, with liberty and justice for all. Did you forget that's what it represents?

Exactly.

I don't think Trump can help himself when he's speaking at rallies. He is hated by 70% of the country. That's hard to take for an egomaniac like him. He is already the worst President in the country's history and has failed every step of the way. When he gets in front of a crowd of supporters, his soul needs the cheers. And he plays them like a fiddle. He knows exactly what to say to elicit cheers and adoration. What risk was there in talking about the rich (and mostly black) athletes kneeling? What are the chances that 99.999999% of his crowd also is disgusted by those very black athletes? So for a few minutes, he gets to feel like a king.

And I kind of doubt Trump cares much about Puerto Ricans. They are an awful lot like Mexicans. At least, to his base.

 

Far be it from me to step in between your imagination and your keyboard, but I'd like to point out that I'm Puerto Rican - and Trump authorized a ton of aid be sent there.

[IMMensaMind 462]

Why did you bring up party affiliation at all? My post said nothing about democrats or republicans. So why did you decide that should be the issue?

 

Is that why you posted a quote from George Wallace from 60+ years ago? Because party affiliation wasn't important to you? Because ideology wasn't important to you?

 

What, then, was the purpose of posting what you did?

[brotherbock 349]

. What you're doing is attempting to excuse the actions of one party with intent with another party with no such intent and equivocating to do so.

 

 

 

Wrong.

 

Is that why you posted a quote from George Wallace from 60+ years ago? Because party affiliation wasn't important to you? Because ideology wasn't important to you?

 

What, then, was the purpose of posting what you did?

 

You seem to be enjoying telling me what it is that I'm attempting to do, why should I ruin your party?

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

Nope, they are disrespecting what it stands for. You know, one nation,

Under god, with liberty and justice for all. Did you forget that's what it represents?

So my quote about Rosa Parks is accurate. I know what it represents. I'm not protesting. And would prefer that the players don't too. But I'm not trying to get them fired for doing it or calling them SOBs. Since you seem to be a flag and anthem enthusiast, are you equally enthusiastic about the constitution? And the first amendment, in particular?

[brotherbock 349]

Is that why you posted a quote from George Wallace from 60+ years ago? Because party affiliation wasn't important to you? Because ideology wasn't important to you?

 

What, then, was the purpose of posting what you did?

 

Why are you conflating ideology and party affiliation? Nowhere near the same thing.

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

1. The players engaging in the protest, who don't mind potentially nuking team chemistry by acting like ignorant asshats.

 

Team chemistry? Perhaps you weren't watching yesterday. Team chemistry was just fine and our idiot President made it 100x stronger.

[TheUsualSuspect 207]

Considering Team Chemistry, I want stats...

 

Like, who kneeled, who lost... and so forth.

 

I mean, the Steelers lost.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,241]

So my quote about Rosa Parks is accurate. I know what it represents. I'm not protesting. And would prefer that the players don't too. But I'm not trying to get them fired for doing it or calling them SOBs. Since you seem to be a flag and anthem enthusiast, are you equally enthusiastic about the constitution? And the first amendment, in particular?

Sure I believe in the first amendment. I also believe I would attack anyone violently if I saw them burning our flag. See, just because you can do something, that doesn't mean you should.

[seafoam1 2,915]

 

The man lies on average about 5 times a day. So yea his credibility is non existent as far as I'm concerned.

So a liar, let's say you, calls someone else a liar, let's say not you, then has no credibility as far as you are concerned. I can totally see that. I agree with you who is the one that has non existant credibility. See how easy that is to figure out?

[ChinaCat 21]

It's already starting. Trump rules!

 

 

 

 

Ben Roethlisberger Regrets Steelers Boycotting Anthem;

 

 

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trump-supports-booing-players-who-kneel-national-anthem-1042616

 

[brotherbock 349]

Sure I believe in the first amendment. I also believe I would attack anyone violently if I saw them burning our flag. See, just because you can do something, that doesn't mean you should.

 

Honestly, and I'm not trying to goad you or flame you or anything. You would actually assault someone who was not themselves harming or about to harm another person? You would actually physically assault someone for peacefully protesting?

 

Really?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,241]

 

Honestly, and I'm not trying to goad you or flame you or anything. You would actually assault someone who was not themselves harming or about to harm another person? You would actually physically assault someone for peacefully protesting?

 

Really?

I said burning the flag. And yes, I would rain blows down upon their head if able to. If not, I would use some sort of weapon.

[Kanil 520]

Nope, they are disrespecting what it stands for. You know, one nation,

Under god, with liberty and justice for all. Did you forget that's what it represents?

 

I believe this is exactly what they're trying to gain in their protests. It is an undeniable fact that black people are not treated the same as white people.

[brotherbock 349]

I said burning the flag. And yes, I would rain blows down upon their head if able to. If not, I would use some sort of weapon.

 

I know you said burning the flag. That falls under the category of peaceful protest--they aren't trying to harm anyone, and if the flag they are burning is their own, they aren't doing anything illegal or damaging anyone else's property. Peaceful.

 

So if someone were to respond peacefully as a protest to violence (say, protesting police violence), you would respond to their peace with more violence.

 

You're not concerned about that at all? Again, I'm not trying to attack you, I'm actually honestly concerned about you here. You don't see the problem with responding to peace with violence?

[IMMensaMind 462]

Truth. The dotard and his minions are the catalyst here...

Would a minion be the type that mimics the words that they hear their Dear Leader utter?

[IMMensaMind 462]

Wrong.

That is not a compelling argument.

 

You seem to be enjoying telling me what it is that I'm attempting to do, why should I ruin your party?

Certainly you can find a less obtuse way to avoid answering than that.

[IMMensaMind 462]

I know you said burning the flag. That falls under the category of peaceful protest--they aren't trying to harm anyone, and if the flag they are burning is their own, they aren't doing anything illegal or damaging anyone else's property. Peaceful.

You have an odd idea of describing peaceful protest.

 

Like - ya know - burning crosses.

 

Only if they're their own, dontcha know.

 

So if someone were to respond peacefully as a protest to violence (say, protesting police violence), you would respond to their peace with more violence.

 

You're not concerned about that at all? Again, I'm not trying to attack you, I'm actually honestly concerned about you here. You don't see the problem with responding to peace with violence?

I'm not going to defend someone threatening violence, and I condemn it. Neither, however, do I classify as peaceful what you're claiming. It isn't. It is intended to inflame, and does.

 

Just exactly like cross burning.

 

But I would be interested to hear how exactly you can call one peaceful, and the other not.

[IMMensaMind 462]

I believe this is exactly what they're trying to gain in their protests. It is an undeniable fact that black people are not treated the same as white people.

One white person isn't treated the same as another.

 

Your argument is a canard.

[brotherbock 349]

That is not a compelling argument.

 

 

Certainly you can find a less obtuse way to avoid answering than that.

 

I'm not attempting to argue with you. I thought about trying, but you have responded with so many assumptions about me, based simply on the fact that we disagree about one issue, that I'm not bothering. I did ask one question above about your inability or unwillingness to separate the concept of party affiliation from ideology--consider that either ignorable, or more of an anthropological study question. But either way, feel free to continue on with whatever it is that you're doing.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,241]

 

I know you said burning the flag. That falls under the category of peaceful protest--they aren't trying to harm anyone, and if the flag they are burning is their own, they aren't doing anything illegal or damaging anyone else's property. Peaceful.

 

So if someone were to respond peacefully as a protest to violence (say, protesting police violence), you would respond to their peace with more violence.

 

You're not concerned about that at all? Again, I'm not trying to attack you, I'm actually honestly concerned about you here. You don't see the problem with responding to peace with violence?

I have a line. Picket, bullhorn, chant, boycott, vote all you want. Burning the flag is unacceptable. If I see it I will react and accept the consequences.

[brotherbock 349]

You have an odd idea of describing peaceful protest.

 

Like - ya know - burning crosses.

 

 

 

Just exactly like cross burning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, hold on.

 

 

Okay.

 

[IMMensaMind 462]

Team chemistry? Perhaps you weren't watching yesterday. Team chemistry was just fine and our idiot President made it 100x stronger.

 

You think the Steeler's team chemistry was just fine? Villenueva was out there by himself, FFS. And now Roethlisberger is already on record saying it was a dumb thing to do.

 

I don't know what game you were watching, or even if you did. I do know that the Steelers had no business getting pounded by the Bears.

 

But please do keep trying to piss on people's backs and claiming it's raining.

[brotherbock 349]

I have a line. Picket, bullhorn, chant, boycott, vote all you want. Burning the flag is unacceptable. If I see it I will react and accept the consequences.

 

Wow. Okay.

 

On the one hand it's good to see you'll accept the consequences. On the other hand...I'm just really depressed about the democratic principles of our nation. Violence as a response to peaceful protest. Okay.

[ChinaCat 21]

 

It is an undeniable fact that black people are not treated the same as white people.

Really? Why would that be? Assuming it's true which it isn't.

[IMMensaMind 462]

I'm not attempting to argue with you. I thought about trying, but you have responded with so many assumptions about me, based simply on the fact that we disagree about one issue, that I'm not bothering. I did ask one question above about your inability or unwillingness to separate the concept of party affiliation from ideology--consider that either ignorable, or more of an anthropological study question. But either way, feel free to continue on with whatever it is that you're doing.

You claimed I called you a Democrat, and it was obvoius that you backtracked without admitting your error. Why didn't you simply say you were sorry?

 

After that, I asked you a question about your motives to post what you did, because you complained about political parties, and you shut down the discussion. Did you not want to be caught red-handed twice in a row?

 

So: if you want to look real hard for a sword to fall on, brotherbock, complaining about assumptions I've made, it would be extremely wise not to be clearly guilty of the same accusation you lob.

[IMMensaMind 462]

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, hold on.

 

 

Okay.

 

We already knew that you have no ability whatsoever to defend positions you take. We didn't need the smiley faces to put an exclamation point on it.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,241]

 

I believe this is exactly what they're trying to gain in their protests. It is an undeniable fact that black people are not treated the same as white people.

Some black people are not treated the same as some white people. And vice versa. But the flag and the national anthem stands for our aim to provide liberty and justice for all. Which is impossible, but still the goal, and nowhere on earth does a country try harder for it. That shouldn't be disrespected. And it also represents those who have sacrificed for that goal. The least we can do is shut up for two minutes and acknowledge them. We don't do much else for them.

[IMMensaMind 462]

I know you said burning the flag. That falls under the category of peaceful protest--they aren't trying to harm anyone, and if the flag they are burning is their own, they aren't doing anything illegal or damaging anyone else's property. Peaceful.

 

So if someone were to respond peacefully as a protest to violence (say, protesting police violence), you would respond to their peace with more violence.

 

You're not concerned about that at all? Again, I'm not trying to attack you, I'm actually honestly concerned about you here. You don't see the problem with responding to peace with violence?

So.

 

Burning flag: peaceful protest.

 

Burning crosses? Also peaceful protest.

 

Got it.

 

Give us some more smiley faces to weakly obscure your utter lack of rebuttal, bock.

[brotherbock 349]

You claimed I called you a Democrat, and it was obvoius that you backtracked without admitting your error. Why didn't you simply say you were sorry?

 

After that, I asked you a question about your motives to post what you did, because you complained about political parties, and you shut down the discussion. Did you not want to be caught red-handed twice in a row?

 

So: if you want to look real hard for a sword to fall on, brotherbock, complaining about assumptions I've made, it would be extremely wise not to be clearly guilty of the same accusation you lob.

 

I never claimed you called me a Democrat? I responded to your post with a question, asking if you were calling me a Democrat. Surely you know the difference between statements and questions. Go ahead and quote where I complained about political parties.

[IMMensaMind 462]

As a side bar, I believe it was a mistake to consider flag burning free speech. It isn't. It's an act.. And it is inflammatory, just like burning a cross.

 

And - while we're at it - burning the flag is totally acceptable, because it's simply a form of expression - but displaying the Confederate Flag is not?

 

Does someone have a Leftist rule book to pass out? All these double standards are certainly confusing.

[brotherbock 349]

 

Burning crosses? Also peaceful protest.

 

Got it.

 

 

 

Again, go ahead and quote me where I said burning crosses was peaceful. Please do so.